Affiliate marketing 101 with Jess and Cindy

"I think that people who maybe have the best intentions of being an affiliate and then don't end up doing it well is because they don't treat it like a launch the way they would launch their own product."

Affiliate marketing 101 with Jess and Cindy

Looking for insider knowledge on affiliate marketing? In this episode, we’re giving you the inside scoop on the art and business of affiliate marketing. We're debunking myths, sharing insights, and guiding you through every step to make the most out of your affiliate relationships. Whether you're considering becoming an affiliate or looking to incorporate affiliates into your marketing strategy, this episode is a must-listen!

Highlights:

• Understanding affiliate relationships

• The importance of audience alignment

• Commission structures

• Leveraging affiliate marketing for product launches

• How to keep affiliates engaged for success

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me

Transcript:

00:00:00 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

00:00:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.

00:00:11 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

00:00:20 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.

00:00:30 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients, you know, the people who truly get it.

00:00:52 Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

00:01:11 Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're gonna empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

00:01:28 Jess: You ready? Let's go.

00:01:31 Jess: Hi.

00:01:32 Cindy: Hi.

00:01:36 Jess: The real tea for everyone, for like the real, real, Cindy and I have been talking to each other, so this introduction is always so funny because, you know, for you, as a listener, it's not like that. But for us, we're trying to make it like you're listening in on a conversation, what you're excited to have today all about affiliate.

00:01:59 Cindy: I feel like you should do it like du, du, du.

00:02:01 Jess: Yeah, like in Wayne's World.

00:02:03 Cindy: Yeah. We're not time traveling right now, we're just talking about affiliates. But I'm really excited for this conversation because I would say, we have a really good affiliate relationship, you and I, like where I affiliate your things and you affiliate my things. And we thought that we could share some insight around what it's like to have affiliates, what it's like to be affiliates, and how you can use this in your marketing and launches because I love it.

00:02:36 Jess: Yeah, me too. I mean, I think that there's this real push, desire, I don't even know what the right word is, that you have to be creating and selling your things exclusively. And that's simply not true at all. In fact, some of the most popular things that I've sold are not mine because they're about grant writing or they're about major gifts, or they're about planned giving things I don't teach my nonprofit audience about at all, but that my audience clearly wants and, you know, it's best that it's being provided by the expert. That is not me. I can just be the affiliate for that. So I agree.

00:03:21 Cindy: And I do think there's a weird, like, when I started doing affiliate stuff and got pushback from other consultants around like, oh, I'm not just happy to promote it naturally. I don't need any financial compensation for that, which I think is just a really bad hangover from being in this nonprofit sector and feeling like we can't get paid for doing things and, you know, all that. But I'm like, why not?

00:03:49 Jess: Oh, my gosh.

00:03:49 Cindy: Why?

00:03:50 Jess: Yeah. Especially, because that really translates to like, I'm not really gonna promote it that hard.

00:03:55 Cindy: Yeah.

00:03:56 Jess: And it's like, I'd rather pay you for the work and the labor that you are providing otherwise like, you don't need to do it. It's all good.

00:04:04 Cindy: Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:06 Jess: Yeah, I don't know what that is. Like, there's like no one's getting a trophy for not collecting the money on the work that you do.

00:04:14 Cindy: Yeah. Look at me. I'm not making money. I win the prize.

00:04:19 Jess: No, no. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Usually, my top performing affiliates, I give something extra to.

00:04:26 Cindy: Yeah.

00:04:26 Jess: Because I want to recognize their hard work. I feel like we could go in a lot of directions, so maybe we should start with, do you wanna start with our experience of being an affiliate or providing affiliates to our products?

00:04:41 Cindy: So I would say providing, like, I think, if you're thinking about using affiliates for your products or launches, I think there's some things, yeah, let's start with that because there's some important things you need to know to get it right. And I'll kick it off, which I think alignment, like you need people to promote it who are really aligned with the audience you wanna get in front of and the value and service you provide. Back in the day when I kind of did like… I didn't do affiliates, but I did scholarships and I asked companies to sort of support the scholarship and I was just like, they're friends, I'll invite them to do this. And that didn't help in my business at all. And so I think, to me, audience alignment is so, so, so critical as a starting point.

00:05:36 Jess: I think that's the most critical. Right. And so, yeah, I mean I think for certain products, it can kind of be open-ended. Like any affiliate is welcome. Those are probably for lower ticket kind of digital product type of things. But if you're running more of a course or, of course, hybrid group coaching program or even like a high ticket group coaching program or one-on one coaching or ongoing services, things like that, I think, yeah, making sure it's a match is the most important.

00:06:10 Cindy: Yeah.

00:06:11 Jess: Thing.

00:06:11 Cindy: But even for the smaller ticket things cuz you've had for your conferences or summits, which are lower ticket, you know, just cuz someone has their name as an affiliate doesn't mean they're gonna do anything about it.

00:06:27 Jess: No, no.

00:06:29 Cindy: And I do think.

00:06:29 Jess: That's so frustrating.

00:06:31 Cindy: Yeah. Like, I think as someone who has something where other people affiliate, you want to weed out the people who are not performing and you don't know, like, I don't know, do you have any sort of like red flags or things that are like… so I've had people who I thought would be great affiliates and they don't do anything. So I don't know, can you spot those people pre-launch?

00:06:57 Jess: So I think what you said at the beginning is probably the biggest red flag and it's for someone that says, I don't need a commission.

00:07:04 Cindy: Yeah.

00:07:04 Jess: It's like, no. Like, that's the only way to participate because again, I know what that translates to and that translates into little attention and almost no effort.

00:07:17 Cindy: Yeah.

00:07:17 Jess: So I would say that's a red flag. In the past, when I've invited people to be an affiliate, I have not required any sort of frequency as promo. And now I do. And that usually looks like a minimum number of emails and a minimum number of social posts. And I just set the expectation because again, like this is really only going to work if you promote it, both for you and for me. And sometimes, I'll get pushback around, oh, well I only send one email a month and that's on a case by case basis. And you know, obviously, I am going to encourage people to make an exception when we're in a launch period because one email a month is, in my humble opinion, not for anything.

00:08:07 Cindy: No. What do you… yeah. No.

00:08:13 Jess: But for the right person, I might make an exception. It's a very case by case basis, but I do now have kind of minimum requirements.

00:08:20 Cindy: Yeah.

00:08:20 Jess: To be an affiliate. And some people don't necessarily have, email list. So, for example, one of my top affiliates for the Make It Happen Conference is Lauren from Consultants for Good, C for G. And to my knowledge, she doesn't really have an email list.

00:08:38 Cindy: She's members though.

00:08:40 Jess: She has a listserv.

00:08:41 Cindy: Yeah.

00:08:41 Jess: And she's got this group. And so she goes ham, like she's such a great affiliate partner, we have such great alignment. Like it works out so, so well. But she doesn't really have an email list. I know that, but I also know that she's going to promote the event multiple times in her group. And frankly, she kills it.

00:08:59 Cindy: Yeah. Well, and for my launch that I'm… as we are recording this, I'm in the middle of, for my fractional fundraiser academy, I did affiliates and some of them are people who are in my program. And so they actually don't have big… some of 'em don't have any email list. But they have the direct experience with what we're “selling.” And so our very first, like person who got the affiliate commission was from that, like no email list. It was just personally sharing with people. And sometimes, they would even hop on the phone with someone. So one person who was interested in the program reached out to some of the previous members and had conversations. And so the funny thing is that part didn't track, but I still wanna recognize the time that the people took to have those conversations. So they're still gonna get affiliate revenue from that even if they didn't instigate it because they did a lot of the selling for me.

00:10:05 Cindy: So sometimes, size of list or like having a list and what that minimum requirement is, is important. But if you have people who are evangelical about what you do, like they love it cuz it's transformed their life or transformed their organization then, I definitely think you can have creative ways for them to share and promote. I would say LinkedIn was the most successful for a lot of those people.

00:10:35 Jess: Yeah. I wanna make it crystal clear. I've never had a minimum list requirement.

00:10:39 Cindy: Yeah, I know. As I said that, I was like, oop, didn't mean to say that. I just think I didn’t remember.

00:10:43 Jess: Yeah. No, no. And you don't do it either. People do, do it. I don't do it because to Cindy's point, you could have 60 people on your email list, but as she mentioned, they're evangelical and if you sell to them, like they're gonna purchase like, I want you, but yeah, my… what's not gonna fly is that if you sign up. I guess, it goes to, like, my biggest pet peeve on the planet is people who say they're gonna do something and then don't do it.

00:11:14 Cindy: Yeah.

00:11:15 Jess: So it's like, just don't do it. It's all good.

00:11:16 Cindy: Yeah.

00:11:16 Jess: Like, it's all good. I wanna talk, as a host, about what commissions you offer. I know I tend to be on probably the more generous side, but my products are also less expensive, so I'll just say what it is. I tend to fall in the 40% to 50% range on any of my products. So whether that's my thousand dollars course or it's a virtual ticket that's $97, I basically think like, yeah, if you're bringing someone to me, like you deserve up to half of like what you're getting and it makes it a really, really easy yes for the affiliates. Cuz they're like, damn, like.

00:12:04 Cindy: Yeah.

00:12:05 Jess: Yes.

00:12:06 Cindy: Yes.

00:12:07 Jess: How about you? Because your products are more expensive.

00:12:09 Cindy: Yeah. So I would say for like a lower ticket offering, that makes so much sense because you're playing in volume. For me, my program's $9,000. So I went with 10% and there were bonuses for people if they had multiple sales, which we haven't reached yet. But, yeah, I mean, it's 900 bucks.

00:12:34 Jess: Yeah.

00:12:35 Cindy: It's pretty significant.

00:12:36 Jess: Yeah.

00:12:36 Cindy: So one sale is like… one sale in my program would, I feel, like last year, how much did I make on, Make It Happen with your program? Like around a thousand bucks.

00:12:45 Jess: Yeah.

00:12:45 Cindy: 800 to a thousand bucks. So kind of equals. But obviously just, it's a very different program. Like I would never offer 50% on that.

00:12:55 Jess: Yeah.

00:12:56 Cindy: But yeah, so I think it depends on the ticket price. And…

00:13:01 Jess: I will say, uh, oh, sorry.

00:13:03 Cindy: No, that's it.

00:13:04 Jess: I'll say, I've run an experiment, which I won't be doing again this year. So at the Black Friday sale last year, I invited, I think, there was like 37 participants and the ticket price was $97 I believe. And instead of doing an affiliate commission, I said that we would do an even split. And so it was kind of under the guise of like high tides rise all ships, you know, we're all in this together. I was giving updates, I did have people sell through a unique affiliate link so I could see where sales were coming from, but it just didn't give that person like the 40% or 50% commission. Unfortunately, what happened is there was about nine or 10 people that pushed the event super hard, like were gangbusters during Black Friday season. Like, they just were promoting it like crazy.

00:14:07 Jess: And some of them, I mean, I'll just shout her out Rachel Bearbower, I think she sold like 37 out of the roughly 200 bundles that we sold, which meant that, like she missed out on like thousands of dollars.

00:14:20 Cindy: Yeah.

00:14:22 Jess: And then other people who literally sold nothing or maybe one got the same payout as someone like Rachel. So I won't be doing that again.

00:14:32 Cindy: Yeah.

00:14:32 Jess: I will go back to the 40% to 50% range. And like I can see, you know, I am everywhere. I am on LinkedIn, I'm on a million newsletter lists, I am on Instagram and Facebook. Like I can see who and who isn't promoting and at what frequency. And so, yeah. It really is just a bummer when again, someone says, they're gonna do something and the expectations have been laid out and then they don't do it. That's just like a very fast way to not get invited to be an affiliate ever again.

00:15:08 Cindy: Exactly.

00:15:09 Jess: Yeah.

00:15:10 Cindy: Exactly. I wanna talk, before we switch to the other side of the conversation, I do wanna talk briefly about how to keep your affiliates engaged. Because I almost think of this as like a peer-to-peer campaign.

00:15:21 Jess: Yeah.

00:15:21 Cindy: Where you can't just, like set it and forget it.

00:15:24 Jess: No.

00:15:26 Cindy: You have to communicate a lot and give people assets and, like, remind them and basically train them on what to do and how to promote this. And I think a lot of people just think like, oh, just, you know, they'll sign up as an affiliate and they'll promote it on their own. No, you gotta provide this stuff.

00:15:45 Jess: So what kind of stuff do you provide your affiliates?

00:15:49 Cindy: So, thanks to you, who I hired to create some assets, email templates, PS statements, some social media graphics. But honestly, the biggest thing I think for me was just keeping them engaged. So leading up, I had like a weekly leaderboard where it would track people's clicks and like people literally replied and they were like, oh, I made the leaderboard this week. So I think that that was helpful is, like being the cheerleader and reminding people like, cuz my launch was complicated.

00:16:28 Jess: There's a lot of moving pieces.

00:16:30 Cindy: There was a lot of moving pieces. And so, when I launched a new thing, I made sure to let people know so that it's like, okay, you can start promoting this today. So that was also really important. And I actually am gonna do an update that, well, I didn't update on our flash sale day. I'll probably do another leaderboard or update at the end of this week. But like leading up to pre-sale stuff, it was like reporting on clicks and now we'll probably start reporting on sales. So.

00:17:02 Jess: Yeah. I love that.

00:17:03 Cindy: Yeah.

00:17:04 Jess: I agree. I feel like people really love a goalpost. And so another thing that I always do is announce what my signup goal is so other people can feel like they're a part of the team working towards reaching that goal line. So I might say something like, my goal is to have 200 attendees that make it happen, or I'm trying to sell 25 spots to my course, or I'm trying to sell X number of bundles. So I also recommend that. I also really double down on a weekly or biweekly update because some people are really motivated by the numbers. I mean, hello, Enneagram 3's. So it also puts some competitive kind of peer pressure into the mix, which I think is really healthy. And what I tend to do is for like the top three leaders, I usually do some sort of added bonus, whether that's a cash prize or whether that's something else. Sometimes, they get more creative than cash, but hey, it's always the right size, shape, and color, so.

00:18:15 Cindy: Exactly.

00:18:15 Jess: And so nothing wrong with that. And it just serves as a little reminder. It's a place where I can, again, attach that Google folder where I included the graphics or the swipe copy files, the link to their unique affiliate link. I think both… Do both of us? Do you use ThriveCart?

00:18:34 Cindy: I use ThriveCart now.

00:18:35 Jess: Yeah. ThriveCart is a tool which I love because you buy it once, it's not like this ongoing repetitive fee. And it does a great job of coordinating like checkout pages and affiliate links. So I don't have an affiliate link for ThriveCart, but I'm sure we can find one for people that are interested in buying it or just go buy it. It's like [500] bucks.

00:18:59 Cindy: Yeah.

00:19:00 Jess: Yeah.

00:19:03 Cindy: I want to talk about, cause we actually don't have that much time for this conversation, but I wanna talk about being an affiliate.

00:19:10 Jess: Yeah.

00:19:10 Cindy: I mean, I think you've, just by listening to the other side of the conversation, have a pretty good idea of how to do it successfully, which is, promote the shit out of something. But why? Like, why is that so hard for people?

00:19:26 Jess: Okay. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts and opinions. I think that people who maybe have the best intentions of being an affiliate and then don't end up doing it well is because they don't treat it like a launch the way they would launch their own product. I know I'm an advocate for a really long warmup, which is generally between 60 and 90 days. I don't launch anything myself without that. So why would I not give the same attention and time to a different type of product, which could be as simple as including a PS sentence at the bottom of my weekly email newsletter, like coming soon or like wait list here or whatever. I think that also a lot of nonprofit consultants are maybe new to what marketing is. You know, especially, if you run a business where you're just doing one-to-one services, you have five or six clients a year, you're not like trying to grow an email list or a big thought leadership presence on a social media platform. This can be like a really new ballgame. And if you're like, I don't want anything to do with that, you can still be a great affiliate, but you do still have to communicate with your five or six clients about the thing that you're selling. So I think, yeah, it's the timeline and it's doing what you say you're going to do. And then I would also say like, use what's provided. I mean, I too write emails out for people and I write social captions out for people so that like, you don't have to create anything from scratch. I've literally done that for you.

00:21:04 Cindy: Although, funnily enough, I like to create my own when I'm an affiliate for someone, I almost never use the assets that are provided because I need it to be my voice for my audience and that's totally fine. And it works, right?

00:21:20 Jess: You start with a blank page though, or do you use that as a template and then like?

00:21:24 Cindy: It depends. Sometimes, I start with a blank page.

00:21:27 Jess: Wow.

00:21:28 Cindy: But like, because I so full-heartedly believe in whatever I'm promoting that sometimes it just comes right out, you know? And I'm just like, this is so easy for me to talk about, so. But I'll pull from the swipe in terms of like what's included or what you get and all those kinds of things. But, yeah. And interestingly, like I know where my audience plays and so, for example, I've affiliated for both Make It Happen and the Black Friday thing. And for the Black Friday, I did not do a lot, but I did it, really concentrated and I think I only did it to my email list. But I know that that's where my people all take action. Right.

00:22:18 Jess: Let's be serious. That's where everyone takes action. Everyone buys from email.

00:22:23 Cindy: Yeah.

00:22:24 Jess: Not saying that it's not a great reinforcement on social media, but like the data doesn't lie.

00:22:29 Cindy: Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:29 Jess: So it's 38 times more effective to send an email than it is to post on social. So.

00:22:34 Cindy: Yeah. So sometimes I don't even bother with social.

00:22:37 Jess: Yeah.

00:22:37 Cindy: But my email and like sometimes if it's a good offer, it just sells. Right.

00:22:43 Jess: Totally.

00:22:43 Cindy: So, yeah.

00:22:44 Jess: Totally.

00:22:45 Cindy: I definitely, making sure that I am fully behind whatever it is I'm an affiliate for. Cuz it's not… you're not gonna like get rich off of this, but it's nice extra income. And if you're truly referring someone to it anyways, like great. But yeah, I have to believe it. I have to see the value for my audience and then you have to follow through. Like, I just, yeah. And usually, it's not just one email or anything like that. It's a series or like a campaign. As you know, I'm a fundraiser. A lot of us know fundraisers, if we're not one. Like we can't send one email and ask for a donation, you know.

00:23:32 Jess: Yeah. It's the exact, same thing.

00:23:33 Cindy: Yeah.

00:23:34 Jess: I think that a couple of things that affiliates do for your business, I'll just list 'em like kind of quickly. Number one, I think it can be a great email list builder because you're attaching yourself to other people's audience. Right. It's putting you in front of an ideal customer that maybe you haven't attracted just yet. Again, going back to that alignment issue.

00:23:57 Cindy: Yeah.

00:23:57 Jess: Number two, if you are a nonprofit consultant who maybe hasn't dabbled in the online digital product space and you don't really want to, like, this is a great way to promote something that's not yours. Like you don't have to build anything. You don't have to host anything.

00:24:15 Cindy: Yeah. I just wanna underscore that because I see a lot of people right now talking about like, I wanna do a digital course and they think that they just like, I mean, I don't think they think… I think they think the building the course is hard, but like once you build it, what's the field of dreams? Like if you build it, they will come. Not true.

00:24:37 Jess: I wish.

00:24:38 Cindy: Not true at all.

00:24:39 Jess: Trust me. I wish that was true.

00:24:39 Cindy: You need to launch. Like honestly, it is a huge undertaking and you're going to do it the first time and you're gonna learn so much. Like don't go evergreen, don't pre-record stuff. Your first launch. This is such an easy way for you to get used to launching, which I think is the most important thing to having a successful digital offering.

00:25:05 Jess: Totally. Or like, group coaching program.

00:25:08 Cindy: Yeah.

00:25:08 Jess: Not anything. Yes. But so Cindy's point, like not everyone has to be a builder. It's great if you want to, but like you don't have to.

00:25:19 Cindy: Yeah.

00:25:19 Jess: And this is a great trial run for that.

00:25:22 Cindy: Yeah.

00:25:22 Jess: I think those are the two things that I wanted to say about that.

00:25:25 Cindy: Awesome.

00:25:27 Jess: I'm so curious though, for anyone who's listening, like what's your vibe on affiliates? Like are you a thumbs up? Are you a thumbs down? Are you like, I'm curious or like, no way Jose. Like I'm just… I think that, if our sector, if nonprofit consultants could band together a bit better, I do feel like sometimes there's like this competitiveness, or lack of transparency thing that, like is going on. And I just feel like this is such a smart way, like for you to make some money, for you to grow your business. I wish I would see more of it. In fact, I'll just selfishly say like, I wish there were more bundles or virtual summits or things that I could go be a part of because I tend to create everything and it's like at some point, I can't create everything. So, please.

00:26:18 Cindy: This is understatement.

00:26:18 Jess: Invite me. Please, invite me, create it and invite me. I promise to be a good affiliate. Cindy will tell you.

00:26:26 Cindy: She is.

00:26:28 Jess: Am I top clicks?

00:26:29 Cindy: Mm-hmm.

00:26:29 Jess: I haven't made a sale yet though.

00:26:30 Cindy: Number one on the leaderboard for clicks. But there's time, there's time.

00:26:35 Jess: I'm coming [though].

00:26:35 Cindy: So. Yeah, I think that's such a good point. And this is such an amazing opportunity to also play with other consultants, build those relationships. I would say like, just to close it out, just, if you're gonna do this, do it. Do it properly, commit and make it successful because you have to do the work.

00:27:02 Jess: Could we, sorry, I know you said to close it out, but I'm just realizing that we have something coming up as like a little, the Five Bandits, us, five.

00:27:10 Cindy: Yes.

00:27:11 Jess: And, because this is exactly what I'm talking about. So we have a mini workshop.

00:27:19 Cindy: Yes.

00:27:19 Jess: Situation.

00:27:21 Cindy: But I think I have a different name in my head than what you said around, so.

00:27:27 Jess: Well, okay. So we're not gonna even announce the name since maybe it's changing. But I guess what I'm just saying as another example, so there's virtual summit, there's bundles, and then what a couple of us consultants are going to be doing in June that doesn't have a name yet, even though we have a logo. Cause, just kidding.

00:27:45 Cindy: I'm pretty sure we have a name, but I just don't think it's what the logo mockup is.

00:27:49 Jess: Okay. Is, the five of us are getting together and we're doing like 20 minute quick sprint workshops back to back to back to back on one day. And so all five of us are going to promote it to all five of our lists. We're going to obviously split the proceeds and that's just another example. Like if you have five grant writers and you each wanna take a piece of that grant writing process and sell it to a whole bunch of people who are interested in acquiring grant funding, like, please, I think that that would be such a great product. Or, you know, put a private podcast together or put some sort of digital product bundle together. I think there's just so much creativity and opportunity out there and like, you don't need to do everything on your own.

00:28:39 Cindy: Yeah. I think that's a great way to end the conversation, play with each other, have fun. That sound weird.

00:28:48 Jess: Yeah. Yeah, just go for it and collaborate. And if I need to play matchmaker among businesses and who might be a good fit with one another, please message me because, you know, I can't help myself doing that anyways. Until next time.

00:29:09 Cindy: See you then.

00:29:12 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.

00:29:24 Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.

00:29:32 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.

00:29:37 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

00:29:43 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

00:29:50 Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

00:29:57 Cindy: See you next time.