"It takes a lot of time and having an accountability partner or just somebody to be on that journey with you to remind you that you're not doing it wrong." - Brooke Richie-Babbage

Navigating the 'Fun Hard' of scaling a business, Brooke Richie-Babbage, CEO of Bending Arc, joins the podcast this week to talk all things strategy. From business models to goal setting, Brooke is sharing how she has grown her business.

Highlights:

1. Shifting business models to scale

2. Setting business systems and goals 

3. Exploring Brooke Richie-Babbage's strategic thought process when scaling her business.

Connect with Brooke:

Newsletter: richiebabbage.com/leadershipforward321

Podcast: Nonprofit Mastermind Podcast

Website: https://brookerichiebabbage.com/

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions Podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

[00:00:03] Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house non-profit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.

[00:00:11] Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

[00:00:20] Jess: We're on a mission to help other non-profit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.

[00:00:30] Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a non-profit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofit is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

[00:00:52] Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

[00:01:12] Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're gonna empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

[00:01:29] Jess: You ready? Let's go.

[00:01:32]Cindy: Hey, Jess.

[00:01:33] Jess: We're back.

[00:01:34] Cindy: We're back. And today is doing your favorite topic. We're talking about strategy with one of our favorite strategists.

[00:01:45] Jess: Yes. I mean, part of me wonders if through osmosis, we just keep having these strategy conversations that I'll just take it in, absorb. But yes, we have the one and only Brooke Richie-Babbage of Bending Arc, one of our tight knit crew members. And this conversation is just, I think, so helpful for anyone who's just interested in having a multi-modeled business. Brooke started in one way, and has now evolved. But then as a strategist, it was really helpful to talk to someone about their own process, and it was interesting to see if it does or doesn't mimic how she works with clients. What do you call it? Cobbler's shoes?

[00:02:35] Cindy: Yeah. There is an actual saying, but the Cobbler's children something shoes?

[00:02:35] Jess: They don't need to look it up or fixed?

[00:02:45] Cindy: But basically the Cobbler's children wear crappy shoes. But no, Brooke is so intentional, and I think how we talk about strategy is whether or not you think you're strategic, this is a conversation you need to be having as a business owner, as someone who is earning revenue, having a business not a hobby. And it's not your goals aren't always financial goals, but we all have goals. And I think for me, what she said is just it helps you make decisions around how you're spending your time, and that's really important.

[00:03:27] Jess: Super important. So without further ado, enjoy our conversation with Brooke.

[00:03:33] Jess: Hey, everyone. We are back with another round of Confessions with Jess and Cindy. And this time, we have a dear friend on our show. Her name is Brooke Richie-Babbage, the CEO of Bending Arc and one of the most strategic consultants I've met in this space. For everyone who knows me, that strategy is one of my low five. So I'm personally excited to have a mini coaching session right now, although I think Cindy and Brooke speak the same language, so we'll see how far we get into all of that. But without further ado, Brooke, welcome to the show.

[00:04:16] Brooke: I cannot tell you how excited I am to be here with you guys. You're two of my very favorite people in our space, and I love all of our offline interactions, and I totally follow you guys, and I'm excited to bring some of the offline energy online. So thank you for having me.

[00:04:31] Jess: Oh, we're so grateful. So to dive right in for folks who maybe aren't familiar with your work. I know you're very active on LinkedIn, so maybe everyone already does know you, but share with the good folks what it is that you do and how you serve nonprofit?

[00:04:46] Brooke: Absolutely. So I work primarily through two core programs. One of them is called the Next Level Nonprofit Accelerator Program, and that is for... I'm going to say established, but organizations that are just past the startup phase, they have usually early six figures, and they really want to grow. And so it's a program focused on helping nonprofits scale. And we look at their board and their staff, and their funding, and their strategy and their strategic plan and their leadership approaches and the whole gestalt of what it really takes to just grow an organization.

[00:05:24] Brooke: And I think a lot of times, having been an ED myself, a lot of programs, coaching and support separate those things out. And what I find with the leaders that I work with is you can't really think about your fundraising separately from your strategic plan, or how you work with your staff separately from how you work with your board. So that accelerator program sort of really goes in deep and helps them grow over six months.

[00:05:49] Brooke: And then I have a more curriculum based program that's called Launch Lab, and that's just for startups. So you have an idea, you want to turn it into a nonprofit. And I have a pretty robust curriculum and live coaching program that walks folks through that.

[00:06:07] Cindy: Amazing. So I have two questions off the bat. The first is, are these both group programs and with the finite start and end date? And then also, can you share how much you charge for each of them?

[00:06:22] Brooke: Absolutely. I'm really glad you asked about the group program because they are both group programs, but they're not cohort based programs. So I think, a lot of us started off doing one on one work and have over the last five years been moving away from one on one work. I find I really like the energy of group work, but I felt really constrained by a cohort model because the orgs that I work with, they're at an early stage, they're growing. Nobody ever has, they're not in the same place. And because I don't just do fundraising or strategic planning, just all the questions are sort of all over the place.

[00:06:55] Brooke: So it's an evergreen program. I open the doors a few times a year. People honestly enroll throughout the year because they reach out and they're like, "I really want to work with you now." So everything is done in a group form. But people come in, they get a personalized roadmap, they get one on one coaching support. So it really needs folks where they are. And that accelerator program is $2,500. Or you can do $1,500 a month. I have a few folks that want to pay monthly.

[00:07:22] Brooke: The launch of the program is a self-paced training program. So it's mostly an online curriculum. It's in worksheets, workbooks, and then there's a live Q & A every month, which is also a group that's much more sort of people take the information, move themselves forward and then check in with me about questions and challenges. And that is $1,200.

[00:07:45] Jess: I love it. So you mentioned at the top that you, like a lot of us, started out in the one to one space and then now, you've really expanded to these group serving products. And I'm just curious how your marketing has shifted, how your audience building has shifted, your intentionality around those two things. Because groups are more---

[00:08:11] Brooke: It's totally different. Oh, yeah.

[00:08:12] Jess: Yeah. So tell us everything.

[00:08:15] Brooke: Yeah, so one-on-one I found to be... it's a really comfortable space. I was an executive director for twelve years. That's actually how Rhea and I met. I know she was on your show too. We all talk and work together. And so a lot of my one-on-one work came very naturally to me. I still do four or five one-on-one strategic planning projects. So most of my one on one work was strategic planning and there wasn't honestly any marketing for me. It was all word of mouth, mostly referrals and just flowed. And so I feel really lucky and blessed in that way. I just got to do work I loved.

[00:08:56] Brooke: As soon as I decided to make the shift to group work and just sort of scalable work, which is a big part of why I decided to make the shift, everything about how I even think about my business, how I even think about myself as sort of an entrepreneur. Everything shifted. I think the first thing in terms of marketing, what you asked about is I have to market. I have to find people who don't know about me, who have never heard anything about me, who are not being referred to by people who have worked with me. And that takes real intentionality. And I think the biggest thing for me there is that I talked to a lot of other entrepreneurs who fall into this trap, I can get really caught up in what I think I know about what people want.

[00:09:46] Brooke: And Rhea, who's my accountability partner, we talk every week. She's really good at saying actually, we're really good at saying to each other, but are you making that offer or are you running that program because you think it's a really good idea for nonprofit leaders? Or because someone somewhere has said to you help me with this problem. And so just in terms of marketing, that's been the biggest shift, is that I really have to do a lot more intentional listening and reflecting back and figuring out how to be more of a guide than say like the expert in the room, which just gave my personality a bit of a high wire act sometimes. So, yeah, I think that's the biggest change.

[00:10:29] Jess: I think that's so---

[00:10:29] Cindy: Before you go into that question---

[00:10:31] Jess: I'm so smart.

[00:10:33] Brooke: Also, I'm going to bring up my favorite topic, which is story brand, because that's old.

[00:10:39] Jess: Yes! Yes!

[00:10:40] Cindy: Jess loves it when I talk about story brand, but---

[00:10:44] Brooke: I had that in mind when I said guide. Absolutely.

[00:10:48] Cindy: See, there's wisdom to it.

[00:10:49] Jess: It's everywhere. Well, what I was thinking when you were speaking is I say the same advice to my nonprofit clients that you are not your donor. And the same rule applies for us nonprofit consultants. You are not your customer. And so I think your advice to be an active listener is so important because what we think we need to create is not always what the people want.

[00:11:12] Brooke: Absolutely.

[00:10:12] Jess: People build it. Guess what? They don't always come.

[00:11:15] Brooke: They don't always come. Yeah, you know that's true.

[00:11:17] Jess: That's really insightful. I want to know before we maybe move on to some of the strategy parts of our conversation. As you've now made the shift from one to one to these group coaching programs or not coaching programs, but these group containers, how has it been? Would you say the juice is worth the squeeze? Financially, is it worth it? Or is it like, "Oh, we're still in the wondering,” about that phase. Because---

[00:11:46] Brooke: That's a great question.

[00:11:47] Jess: I think that the origin of my question is that's what so many folks aspire to? And then they try it and it's actually a ton of work.

[00:12:00] Brooke: It's really hard. Yeah.

[00:12:01] Jess: And so I'm just curious about going through you.

[00:12:04] Brooke: I love that question. Yeah, I think the first thing that I'll say is everything is hard in its own way. And I am a really firm believer in finding one zone of genius and trying to lean into it. And I think there are some people who for whom the infrastructure part of moving to the work that I do, you have to have a marketing plan. You have to think about things like whether you're going to do ads or not. You have to think about strategy. There's an institution building a piece of moving to a scalable group model that isn't there for me, that wasn't there when I was doing one on one work. And I referenced sort of the shift in just my own psychology of being a businesswoman. There's been a real shift over this last year from consultant to entrepreneur to CEO of a thing that is not just me and that suits me, but it doesn't suit everybody. And so I think sometimes we think we need to aspire to in order to have a scalable model, we have to do group work. But that happens to be my zone of genius. I happen to really love it and be good at it. So yeah, it's hard, but it's like 'fun hard.' It's like I like staying up until midnight thinking about it.

[00:13:28] Brooke: I think the other thing that I'll say is it's not overnight and it's been really important for me to have people like Rhea, people like you guys, people like the community guest that you've curated for those of us that work with nonprofits. Because having other people and I say this to my coaching clients all the time, we look and we think we can reverse engineer what we're seeing in other people's organizations or businesses. And you never can. You don't know what's beneath the surface, the base of the iceberg. And so I think folks look and Ria and I talk about this all the time and they're like, "Oh, so you had one-on-one and now you do programs?" No, it is this slow moving, interesting, oddly calibrated mix of things that I do that until very recently was 40% group work and 60% individual and then 50% and 50% and then it goes back because honestly, it's easier to do the one on one. Financially, those checks are bigger.

[00:14:40] Brooke: So, I guess I'd say for folks out there who aspire to make a shift in the model, it takes a lot of time. And having an accountability partner or just somebody to be on that journey with you to remind you that you're not doing it wrong.

[00:14:56] Brooke: I think the last thing is it takes a little bit of... you just have to sort of decide. What do they say decide is like cutting off all the options or something. Rhea has this mantra where she's like, "Burn the bridges, don't have a plan B." I don't know that. I'm a big plan B kind of person, but I would definitely say I have made the biggest leaps in my business when I have said, "You know what? Actually, I'm committing to doing this. I'm committing to 60% of my revenue being this new business model." And so that's where I have to lean in and I'm going to let go of this other piece of trust in abundance and trust that the universe will meet me there.

[00:15:39] Cindy: Oh, my goodness. I love everything you just said, but also thank you for being so open about it, because I feel like these are the conversations that we don't have but that we all need to hear. Going yourself a couple of years ago needed to hear that. Myself a few years ago needed to hear that, which is so great.

[00:16:00] Cindy: And because you're a strategy person, I'd love for you to share a little bit about your own strategic thought process or how you look at your business. We all know the story of the Cobbler's children's shoes. You know what I mean? We are always really good at doing things for other people, but not great at doing it ourselves. But sometimes, because it's so natural to you, I imagine, whether intentional or unintentional, there's a really strategic process or thought behind your scaling and what that growth looks like for your business. And I'd love for you to take us behind the scenes on what's your process. Do you just dive in? How do you think about these things? Do you map them out in any way? What does that look like?

[00:16:54] Brooke: Yeah, so I think the first thing I'll say is I have always worked with a coach, and usually, it has been a coach... I always go back and forth between like, "Should I have a mindset coach or a business coach?" And I'm still going back and forth on that. But I have, so far in my business, landed on business coach each year, and the business coach program that I was in really gave me my model.

[00:17:21] Brooke: And so the first thing that I'll say is nothing that I do, just big picture structure. I didn't make it. I really love and talk to my coaching clients about not reinventing the wheel. Most things I will think to do, someone, somewhere has done them really well or some part of it really well, and then we just sort of have to piece those pieces together. So I don't want to sort of take credit for what I did.

[00:17:47] Brooke: The second thing I'll say is I do love strategy, and I follow you on LinkedIn, Cindy. I'm always like, "Yes, she's speaking my language." Most of what I do is very carefully thought out and planned. And so what that looks like and I'm actually sort of knee deep in this process right now. At the end of every year, I spend a lot of time, like a month thinking about my vision for my business for the year, just how do I feel, who am I working with, who are my people, who are my accountability partners, who are my ideal mentors, just all of the things. And from that, I then try to clarify some key priorities. What do I want to really lean into? And that's really big for me because, again, my personality, I'm a... I don't want to say it in a bad way, I can sometimes be a shiny bubble person. I have a lot of things I like to do, a lot of ideas and things I want to create.

[00:18:47] Brooke: And my sister gave me this idea journal 15 years ago. And she's like, just write them all down so you don't feel like you have to do them all the time. Always. And I still have it. And because I'm that way, the priorities piece is really key. I have to say. actually, these are the four things and I'm going to have to just be a grown up and say no to these other things. And then once I have the priorities, I have goals that I'm trying to set, I'm trying to be really clear about, especially when it comes to financial goals, what's my number? What's my baseline number so that I feel comfortable each month, what's my aspirational number and all of those things. But I go into every year with a plan and a sort of map and try to use that to guide my thinking throughout the year.

[00:19:37] Jess: Hi, Brooke. We're back with another round of rapid-fire questions. Are you ready to play?

[00:19:42] Brooke: I'm a little nervous, but I'm okay.

[00:19:45] Jess: If you were a color, what color would you be?

[00:19:50] Brooke: Purple. Green is my favorite color, but purple, there's like a richness and it feels like a very depth there even beyond what you're seeing and it's just beautiful to look at. Totally.

[00:20:05] Jess: You mentioned on the podcast being a mom to two little boys, what's the ultimate mom hack as a working small business owner mom.

[00:20:15] Brooke: Oh my goodness. Quiet time. So when we're together on the weekends, everybody gets an hour of quiet time in the middle of the day to think their own thoughts in their own spaces.

[00:20:27] Jess: Smart. Super, super smart. And for our last question, who is a coach you have worked with, that you've enjoyed working with and why?

[00:20:35] Brooke: I would say Mariah Coz. I did the Maria Coz program. I take a hybrid and it was probably the single biggest impact on my business and how I think about growing an abundant company. So, I definitely love it.

[00:20:51] Jess: I've heard good things. Thank you for playing.

[00:20:54] Brooke: Thank you.

[00:20:58] Cindy: I love that.

[00:21:02] Jess: But as the person who---

[00:21:06] Brooke: I'm watching Jess's head sort of be like, "Oh God, that's so much."

[00:21:11] Jess: Well, I guess I'm sitting here thinking and maybe if this question isn't in the right place. Cindy, you can say let's come back to that. But I'm sitting here thinking like I would change my mind. I would not be able to stick to that. No way. In fact, the feeling I have is like either drowning or one of those people being taped to a wall to being like these are the goals that you set and you have to stick with them for twelve months. Nothing feels more constricting to me. So maybe that's like a discipline issue.

[00:21:52] Brooke: No.

[00:21:54] Jess: No, but I'm also wondering how do you...

[00:21:56] Brooke: I think it's about how you set the goals.

[00:21:58] Jess: Well, how do you adjust and pivot as things don't go. I mean, we literally just talked about how your marketing strategies and efforts have totally changed and they're unpredictable.

[00:22:08] Brooke: I think a lot of what people hear about and learn about in terms of setting goals does us a disservice. I think you can have really narrow goals that can strain you. And like I said, I'm an idea person, so I have 50 ideas a week of things I want to create, programs I want to create content, I want to create books I want to write, people I want to work with. So you're exactly right. If my goals were so narrow, like these are the twelve things you have to do, you can't add to the list or detract from the list, I just wouldn't stick to it. It wouldn't be a real plan.

[00:22:43] Brooke: My goals are more like raising this amount of money and how I'm going to get there is going to change. I said race because I'm saying this is my revenue target. Or I would like this number of people to be in my community. I would really like my podcast to grow in a certain way. So there are these things that I want that will feel like success to me at the end of the year, but because I am committing to investing in my podcast or investing in growing my community. But the how is it by having live events, which I still really like the idea of and probably want to do, or virtual conferences, which I love yours and I love them, or convenient how I'm going to get there. That's the play space for me. If I know what my North Star is, then I know where I'm aiming my creative energy and that's more what my goals are. Then I know I have to cross these things off my list. Does that resonate or sort of makes sense?

[00:23:50] Jess: That so does. And I want to just latch on to what you said just about because you mentioned revenue goals, and I'm curious how you come up with those numbers. Because, for example, I sat in on a trainee, and I know this is an apples to apples, but it said that the average fundraising growth rate year over year is 2.2%. Which I was like---

[00:24:08] Brooke: Wow!

[00:24:09] Jess: That's hilarious because I have never worked in an organization that didn't have a board meeting that was like, "We're going to grow by 20% to 25%."

[00:24:18] Brooke: Exactly.

[00:24:19] Jess: Like, "No, it's 2.2." And so I'm just curious, I can't imagine that in a for profit business such as ours that like that number is that far off. I don't know. Maybe that--

[00:24:32] Brooke: Maybe the 2% number or the 20%?

[00:24:34] Jess: I'm saying the 2.2 annual revenue growth.

[00:24:38] Brooke: Yeah.

[00:24:39] Jess: I don't know. I have no idea. But I'm just curious if all of us small business entrepreneurs out there like "We're going to grow by 50% next year." And it's like based. Where do you come up with how and why you make your revenue growth numbers the way that you do? And actually, this question goes for you too, Cindy, because Cindy's over here, we were chatting and she's like, "Yeah, I've already mapped out my month by month, my cashflow," this, that and there and I was like, "Oh, my God."

[00:25:13] Brooke: I like the fact that your podcast is called Confessions, because I'm just going to sort of, in the interest of full transparency, share that my first reaction to your question is like, "I'm going to sound crazy." I'm fairly certain that the way that I do it is going to sound totally wrong to so many people. And I don't know, it just works for me. So it's a little bit of art and science. I pick a number that resonates with me.

[00:25:44] Brooke: I do a lot of meditation, and when I say that I take a month to do what's my vision, it's a lot of sitting in silence and trying to listen to what my gut is telling me because quite frankly, and I feel like this is true for you guys, too, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of noise, there are a lot of emails and stuff. And I have two wonderful small people living in my house, my two children who have their own little worlds that I am trying to help build. And so it's really easy to get caught up in what I think the goal should be.

[00:26:20] Brooke: So I just spend a lot of time just trying to listen to myself. I do these things at night called “be still in listening sessions,” which are just meditation sessions where I literally say, "What am I supposed to be hearing that is coming into my world? What conversations did my brain pick up?" But on one level, I didn't pick up on the top level because I was moving so quickly and just let those things emerge and come to the surface.

[00:26:44] Brooke: And Q4, I turn my be still and listen time to my number. What's my number for next year? And I don't always know why it's that number. I mean, I think you're supposed to have this deep why for everything. That's just a number that came up. And then once that number comes up and feels right, because what feels right is often what we will work hardest towards, even if we don't know intellectually why we're doing it. It's got to come from me, it's got to come from my gut, it's got to come from inside.

[00:27:13] Brooke: So I start there and then I model and then there's sort of Virgo and me, the INFJ and me kicks in and I have a spreadsheet and I think, "Okay, if that's my number, I have to believe there's some way to get there." I believe in manifestation, but I don't think manifestation works by just being linked. "Send me the money, please, universe." So I'm back into it, right?

[00:27:35] Brooke: So what are different ways that I can combine my offers? What are different ways I need to think about revenue that are more expansive? What are things I'm not talking about with my accountability partners? I interview people. I think, how are you getting to your number? So there's a lot of playing around in modeling. And then, so that by the time I go into the year, I have a good sense of like, "This is where I want to be. This is why these are some of the things that if I do these well, will get me." I want to feel like because I'm the strategy person, that there's like this nice linear process I go to but that's what I got.

[00:28:15] Cindy: I mean, I wouldn't say if you looked at other people's processes, it is fairly linear still, it's not out there. I'll share a little bit of my process, Jess, because you asked as well, but I actually think it's pretty similar. But also, it reminds me of a quote that of course, I'm going to get wrong because I can never remember these things, but I think it's grit, what people describe as being gritty or having grit, which is like you hold fast to your goals or your vision, but not always the path to get there.

[00:28:50] Brooke: Yes.

[00:28:53] Cindy: Is that what's... okay.

[00:28:50] Brooke: Yes, absolutely.

[00:28:53] Cindy: So that... we can... your goals are fairly firm, but what that looks like month, month to or quarter to quarter can change and evolve as we learn. And so, I think that's just more.

[00:29:09] Brooke: I call it a lighthouse, right? If you're in the sort of choppy, storm ridden waters of life and building a business, that lighthouse out there is where you know you want to go and how you get there. Maybe you come in from the north, maybe you're shifted left or who knows how you're going to get there, you'll figure it out as you go, but the lighthouse doesn't move. The lighthouse is your beacon.

[00:29:34] Jess: And for anyone listening who is maybe more on just inside of organization, which is I'll just tell you, I actually had no financial goals this year. I know what I need to make to live, and obviously, it needs to maintain that. But my goals were centered around things like I want to grow my email list to this, I want my open rate to stay above this, I want my click rate to stay above this, or I need to get visible this many times per month. And the reason why it's for me in the way that I work with clients, which is again, way different if you do one on one work or if your model is like you really only do referral based marketing is because I know, that for me, if I put out quality content that leads to clicks, that leads to buys which leads to the revenue I need to make.

[00:30:31] Brooke: Absolutely.

[00:30:32] Jess: But it's just so interesting how you can all end up successful.

[00:30:37] Brooke: Yes.

[00:30:38] Cindy: But your goal, arguably, is the quality, content and building community. And those things that you listed are the indicators. Those are your indicators.

[00:30:48] Jess: But I will say, as someone that is an enneagram three and who really loves, thrive on being, quote unquote, "the best" and would rather die than not hit a goal, I will just say that this year for me, I have not doubled my email list. And what I kind of decided in Q3 or Q4 was that I would take an engaged email list over a large email list every day of the week. And there are people in our space that have much larger email lists and I outperform them. I know---

[00:31:28] Brooke: ... those emails, yeah. That's right.

[00:31:32] Jess: I'm just saying that's what I was asking. Do you feel like a failure if you set these specific cash local goals and then you don't meet them? Or do you just roll that over into the next one? Or do you just let that go? But that could again just be me.

[00:31:47] Brooke: Maybe I should feel like a failure, but I don't actually believe in the whole...

[00:31:50] Cindy: But please don't, this is something I need to work out.

[00:31:59] Brooke: I guess what I mean is like maybe they are real goals and they're more to me, I don't feel like a failure if I don't hit them. Because for me, the purpose of my priorities and goals, the role they play in my life, is to organize my thinking and my focus so that I can be really focused when I know where I'm going.

[00:32:32] Brooke: It's like when I was applying to colleges, one of the schools I was looking at was Brown University. And I loved it. And they let you design your own major. And I knew even at 17, I was like, "I cannot go there," because if there are too many options, I'll never pick one. I'll do them all and then I won't graduate. That's still me at 45. So my goals are more… they're less like you have to hit this or you're not a good business woman. And they're more like when all of the opportunities and the fun, amazing things I want to do start to roll in and I have a conversation with someone who's like, "We should do this," I'm like, "Yes, we should. That sounds great, let's do it. I'm going to do it." I have to go back to my goals and be like, "But actually, you said it was really important to you that you build your community, or these are your five things you said were important to you. And this thing sounds fun and it's nothing to do with those things."

[00:33:30] Brooke: And so maybe, in that moment, I'm like, "Actually, I need to adjust because this thing is so fun that I want to do it." But more often than not, it is an opportunity for me to say, "No, I did a lot of thinking and reflection and these are the things, this is how I want to move my business forward and this will take me off track." So I have to find some other way to tap into whatever that tapping into. So they're not like success or failure goals so much as they are organizing my energy.

[00:34:01] Cindy: That is so important because I'm the same, I get excited about a lot of things. I'm like, "I want to do that, I want to do that." But it's giving you a framework to make decisions.

[00:34:12] Brooke: Yeah.

[00:34:13] Cindy: And even like to what you were talking about before and just your question. So, for example, I have financial goals for my business, and then I have launch goals when I launch or for different products that I'm working on, I am pretty good at hitting my business goals. Again, that's the grit. Those big high level goals, they stay the same. And the other goals, I will learn. So if I have one product that doesn't do as well, I'm just going to ramp up in other areas or adjust and try and recover. So it's like definitely I've had launches that did not meet my expectations or anywhere near.

[00:34:56] Brooke: That's right.

[00:34:56] Cindy: That's okay because I have other things that I can do and I really hold strong to my annual financial goals. For me, those are very important. And when you talk about how we set those numbers, for me, it's looking at what do I want? What life do I want and what and what is that cost?

[00:35:15] Brooke: That's going to get me there? And I think that the last thing I'll say about sort of the goals is I always try and set goals in different areas of my business. So I always have a financial goal. Usually, there are goals around how do I want to move through the world as a business leader? How do I want to show up in spaces, what kind of community do I want to be part of? Who do I want to have around me? So I try to really think about goals that way, also.

[00:35:45] Brooke: And then I have... one of my goals, for example, is spaciousness. That's not the whole goal because that's not a goal. But I looked at my year and I was like, "I am too busy. This is not healthy." And so, that's a different kind of goal. So I try to have different goals that are really like what's the thing I'm trying to do in the coming year and what are the different dimensions.

[00:36:12] Cindy: I love it. I feel like we could talk--

[00:36:13] Jess: This is so good. I know. Brooke, as we wrap up for folks who want to watch you magically on LinkedIn, who are interested in your group containers or who just want to be in touch with you, what is the best way for them to reach out?

[00:36:31] Brooke: So there are a few. The best thing to do is to get my weekly newsletter. I really love this newsletter. It is a labor of love for me. It's actual, real, wonderful content. It's called Leadership Board 321. And you can get to it, richiebabbage.com/leadershipforward321. And it's a weekly... comes out on Wednesdays, sometimes also on Mondays, because I love sharing content. And it's basically three articles, two resources, and a quote on some leadership theme. And it's always responsive to what I'm hearing sort of in the work of my organization. So that's the first way.

[00:37:09] Brooke: The second way, if folks want to just learn more about me and follow me, I have a podcast, the Nonprofit Mastermind Podcast. So definitely listen to that. That's also a lot of content. I do mini training, and it's tactical, and sometimes we talk about tough stuff. And it's another thing that I love and want people to benefit from.

[00:37:37] Brooke: And then the last thing is to learn more about my programs, and I talk about them in my email. Folks can go to go to my website, and then if you click on either Accelerator or Launch Lab, there's videos you can watch that sort of give you a sense of how I teach and what the content is there's a free workshop for each of those that will give you just a sense of me and how I show up in the space and what it would be like to work with me. And my website is brookerichiebabbage.com, www.brookerichiebabbage.com.

[00:38:09] Jess: You're amazing. Thank you so much for your time. See you out in the wild.

[00:38:14] Brooke: This is so much fun. Thank you ladies so much.

[00:38:20] Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions Podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can enjoy your support in one of three ways.

[00:38:20] Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy so we can repost you.

[00:38:20] Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow non-profit culture consultant.

[00:38:46] Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so that we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

[00:38:46] Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

[00:38:46] Jess: And to our fellow non-profit coaching and consulting friends, remember we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

[00:38:46] Cindy: See you next time.