£6 Per Month: How Caroline Danks Built a Newsletter That Pays

Written By cindy wagman

There's a simplicity in being able to monetize a thing that you would be doing anyway and a thing that you probably would do if nobody paid you for it because you love it so much." - Caroline Danks

£6 Per Month: How Caroline Danks Built a Newsletter That Pays 

In this episode of Confessions, Jess and Cindy chat with Caroline Danks, a UK-based fundraising consultant who runs Lark Owl with her partner. Caroline shares her journey from traditional consulting to developing multiple revenue streams, most recently transitioning her email newsletter to a monetized Substack publication called The Nest Egg.

Caroline discusses how she began as a freelancer in 2016 after being made redundant, then discovered the potential of online business beyond selling time for money. After initially creating and selling online courses for several years, she faced email deliverability challenges in 2023 that prompted her to rethink her business model. This led her to Substack, where she now monetizes her weekly newsletter directly, charging £6/month or £60/year.

One year after launching her paid Substack, Caroline has over 3,200 total subscribers with 113 paid subscribers. She explains that while this is "a slow burn" requiring high volume for a low-cost product, it allows her to get paid for writing content she was already creating and loves doing.

Caroline shares her marketing strategy, focusing on LinkedIn for discovery, Substack's recommendation feature for cross-promotion with other writers, and consistently producing high-quality content that people naturally share. She also discusses her decision to retire her online courses and workshops in favor of a simpler business model that prioritizes what she truly enjoys.

Highlights:

  • Monetize What You Already Love Doing: Caroline found success by turning her passion for writing emails—something she was already doing weekly—into a revenue stream. As she puts it, "there's a simplicity in being able to monetize a thing that you would be doing anyway and a thing that you probably would do if nobody paid you for it because you love it so much."

  • Quality Content Is Your Best Marketing Tool: Caroline emphasizes that creating genuinely valuable content is central to her strategy. Each piece helps her clarify her own thinking on important topics while providing tactical advice to readers, which naturally encourages sharing and word-of-mouth growth.

  • Simplify for Sustainability: By retiring her online courses and reducing workshops and affiliate marketing, Caroline created a more streamlined business model that reduces overwhelm and focuses on her strengths. This intentional simplification helps maintain quality while preventing burnout.

  • Alternative Revenue Models Require Patience: Caroline is transparent about the "slow burn" nature of subscription models, noting that a low-cost product requires higher volume to be significant financially. She's comfortable with this gradual growth because it aligns with her lifestyle needs and desire for business simplicity.

  • There's Power in a Weekly Commitment: For five years, Caroline has consistently published content every Tuesday at 10am without fail (except for planned breaks in August and December). This consistency has been crucial to building trust and a loyal audience that's willing to pay for her expertise

Timestamp summary: 

  • Time-Stamped Summary:

    • [00:00:00 - 00:03:00] Introduction and Context

    - Cindy and Jess introduce the episode, acknowledging current world events

    - They mention they'll have a future episode on "Business as not usual"

    - The hosts introduce the topic of Substacks and welcome Caroline Danks

    • [00:03:00 - 00:06:00] Caroline's Background and Business

    - Caroline introduces herself as a UK-based fundraising consultant

    - Explains Lark Owl, the business she runs with her partner (she's the "Lark," he's the "Owl")

    - Describes her work supporting charities and nonprofits with fundraising

    - Mentions she works as a fractional fundraiser specializing in trusts, foundations, and major gifts

    - Introduces The Nest Egg, her Substack publication on fundraising and nonprofit management

    - Claims to be the first Substack bestseller covering fundraising and nonprofit management

    • [00:06:00 - 00:09:00] Caroline's Professional Journey

    - Discusses being a trailblazer in the UK fundraising sector

    - Mentions her research projects on ROI for different types of fundraising

    - Shares her professional values around social justice and equity

    - Begins timeline of her business evolution

    - Explains she's been a fundraiser since graduating in 2004

    - Became a freelancer in 2016 after her role was made redundant

    • [00:09:00 - 00:12:00] Discovering Alternative Business Models

    - Around 2018, discovered online business and entrepreneurship

    - Started listening to business podcasts (Being Boss, Wandering Aimfully, Paul Jarvis)

    - Realized she could do more than sell her time for money

    - Started her email list in 2019

    - Created and pre-sold her first online course in Trusts and Foundations Fundraising

    - A year later created a course on Major Gift Fundraising

    • [00:12:00 - 00:15:00] Email Deliverability Challenges

    - In 2023, experienced significant issues with email deliverability

    - Open rates dropped from 40% to 20%

    - Problem persisted despite working with IT specialists

    - Explains technical issues with email servers in nonprofits

    - Realized online courses needed substantial updating after 4-5 years

    - Course content had become outdated as her fundraising approach evolved


    • [00:15:00 - 00:18:00] Email List ROI and Writing Passion

    - Discusses ROI of her email list which started in May 2019

    - Her first lead magnet was a fundraising ROI report that became popular

    - By December 2019, she pre-sold her course despite having only around 200 subscribers

    - Explains how writing newsletters provided clarity on professional topics

    - Views email as the best business decision she's made

    - Describes how writing helps her solve client problems

    • [00:18:00 - 00:22:00] Rapid Fire Questions & Favorite Substacks

    - Quick break for rapid-fire questions

    - Caroline recommends Liz LeClaire's "Uprising Philanthropy" Substack

    - Also recommends Lisa Greer's "Philanthropy 451" Substack

    - Caroline discusses how she takes her tea ("builder's tea" with oat milk)

    - Mentions her background as a semi-professional choral singer


    • [00:22:00 - 00:26:00] Substack Business Model Details

    - Cindy asks about Substack specifics

    - Caroline explains their primary income is still from consultancy

    - Adds context about their modest lifestyle and living in a cheap area of UK

    - Moved email list from MailChimp to Substack in November 2023

    - Removed lead magnet to focus on organic growth with the right audience

    - Continued writing weekly emails every Tuesday at 10am

    - In January 2024, introduced paid subscription at £6/month or £60/year


    • [00:26:00 - 00:30:00] Substack Metrics and Structure

    - After one year (Feb 2025), has 3,291 total subscribers with 113 paid

    - Paid subscribers get weekly emails, free subscribers get monthly emails

    - Explains Substack works like a blog with an archive

    - Content marked with padlocks indicates paid-only content

    - Discusses Substack's technical limitations (no automations, simple setup)

    - Experimenting with selling additional products through Substack

    • [00:30:00 - 00:34:00] Marketing and Growth Strategy

    - Focuses on "big launch energy" for the paid Substack offering

    - Discusses the challenges of being an early adopter in the nonprofit sector

    - Uses Substack's recommendation feature to cross-promote with other writers

    - Reached out to other writers to create mutual recommendation partnerships

    - Uses LinkedIn as primary discovery platform rather than Substack Notes

    - Emphasizes quality content that readers naturally want to share

    • [00:34:00 - 00:38:00] Business Simplification Strategy

    - Discusses closing her online courses despite their profitability

    - Debunks myth of "passive income" from online courses

    - Considering stopping workshops despite their success

    - Reducing affiliate marketing to focus on clear calls to action

    - Emphasizes simplicity and focusing on what she truly enjoys

    - Shares example of editing an email to remove excessive calls to action


    • [00:38:00 - 00:42:00] Confession and Wrap-Up

    - Caroline's confession: Sometimes fantasizes about quitting to take a job as a major gift fundraiser

    - Has applied for dream roles but appreciates the variety of consulting

    - Values the collaborative learning across different clients

    - Jess mentions they're "too feral" to return to traditional employment

    - Caroline shares where listeners can connect with her (LinkedIn and Substack)

    - Caroline expresses gratitude for being on the podcast

Resources Mentioned:

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Caroline

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me

Transcript:


TRANSCRIPT:

[00:01:31] Cindy: Hey, Jess. Hello. 

[00:01:33] Jess: Long time. 

[00:01:34] Cindy: Long time. I feel like it has been a long time since we recorded. Yeah. 

[00:01:39] Jess: For folks listening, we really try and maximize our batch work. And so it has actually been a time. 

[00:01:46] Cindy: It's been a few weeks since we were in Mexico, I think was the last time. I know. we were just talking, we're going to have to do an episode on Business as not usual, but that, that will come.

[00:01:57] Cindy: but it feels so weird, any small talk right now just feels so weird. I know, 

[00:02:01] Jess: right? Yeah, I know. Like,

[00:02:03] Cindy: I'm good, but the world is falling apart. It's on fire. Yeah, don't mind us. So let's just push through and continue with business as usual. and Yes, we will try have a, our schedules are really hectic.

[00:02:18] Cindy: Otherwise I think we would have had that conversation already, but we are going to try have a conversation about navigating the world right now as a business owner. But until then. We are going to keep bringing you interviews with other consultants and our own random thoughts and, ideas. and today we are, we're diving into the world of substacks, which I'm super excited about.

[00:02:47] Cindy: I think Jess is probably, you're more excited. 

[00:02:50] Jess: I'm excited to see where the conversation goes for sure, because I am a consumer of Substack, but not a, producer of any substack, but you're like 

[00:02:59] Cindy: content queen. So I feel like this has been on the periphery of your Yeah, I've been actually getting 

[00:03:05] Jess: so many more questions about it, so I'm actually really excited to speak to our guest today, who's definitely more of an expert than I am.

[00:03:11] Jess: Yeah. 

[00:03:12] Cindy: Awesome. with that Caroline Dinks, welcome to the podcast. 

[00:03:18] Caroline: Hi, Jess. Hi, Cindy. Thank you so much for having me here today. I'm excited. We are excited. Very cool. 

[00:03:25] Cindy: Yeah. We're so happy to be having this conversation, to have you on the podcast. let's start. Do you want to just introduce yourself, to our audience and your business, Larkowel?

[00:03:37] Cindy: What do you do? 

[00:03:39] Caroline: So yeah, thank you so much for inviting me here and for having me and yeah, it's a real pleasure to be here So my name is Caroline Danks. I am Based in the UK and I'm a fundraising consultant I run Lark Owl with my partner Tony my partner in real life as well as in work I'm a morning Lark and he's a night owl we support charities, non profits with all sorts of, income generation from traditional types of fundraising, high value fundraising, capital appeal fundraising, and also earned commercial income too.

[00:04:16] Caroline: I'm also a fractional fundraiser, so I always have one or two clients on the go. Um, for me personally, it's really important that I keep my hand in, that I a practitioner. And my specialisms are trusts, foundations, major gifts.I'm also a writer, so I write The Nest Egg, which is a reader supported publication, hosted on Substack.

[00:04:40] Caroline: and we are, I think, and I'm really happy to be challenged on this, I think we are the first ever bestseller, Substack bestseller, that covers fundraising and non profit management. I can't believe that's true. I cannot believe for a second that I'm the first person who had done something in the world.

[00:04:58] Caroline: as I say, happy to be challenged. There must be someone in the U. S. But, do you know what, until I hear otherwise, I'm the first in the world to have created Claim that title, own it Yeah, let's take it, let's take it so yeah, and I'm also, I am also a bit of an experimenter, I'm a trailblazer I was the first person to create and sell self led online fundraising training here in the UK I also run a sort of semi regular research project on the return on investment for different types of fundraising in UK charities, so I'm quite well known for that as well.

[00:05:36] Caroline: And I'm pretty, I'm an opinionated, outspoken person. I try to talk about the topics that matter, social justice, anti racism, equity, that that's where I'm very much a work in progress, but it's something that's really important to me and it's, one of the wonderful things about working for myself, I have that, capability to say those kinds of things and, to be free to do so.

[00:05:59] Caroline: So yeah, that's a little bit about me. 

[00:06:02] Cindy: I love it. Oh, so great. Okay. I want to ask about all the different revenue streams that you have, but I also really want to get to the sub stack piece because I think that is something we just have not talked about. So let's dive into that. And tell us a little bit about the genesis of this.

[00:06:21] Cindy: I know you mentioned your online course, which I know offline, you've mentioned to me that you're retiring all your courses. So how has this come and what have you learned in this journey? Like what does it look like as part of your business? 

[00:06:39] Caroline: so a quick sort of timeline if it's helpful for listeners.

[00:06:43] Caroline: So I became, so I've been a fundraiser like forever. So since, since I graduated from university in 2004, with a music degree. Very useful. so since 2004, I've been a fundraiser and, I was always employed. And then in 2016, my role was made redundant. So I became a freelancer back in 2016. And it only took a couple of years for me to discover, entrepreneurship, online business,to learn pretty quickly that you don't necessarily just have to sell your time for money, there are other options.

[00:07:26] Caroline: I listened to all the podcasts and I was really lucky with the content that I did consume, so I listened to the Being Boss podcast a lot. In the early days. I want to give a shout out to Jason and Caroline Zook from Wandering Aimfully, Paul Jarvis, those kinds of people. So that was probably sort of 2018.

[00:07:45] Caroline: And I thought, wow, I can, I can sell my time for money. And I've got these other options too. So in 2019, I started my email list. I started writing the nest egg. And then at the end of the year, I created and pre sold my first online course. That was in Trusts and Foundations Fundraising, and a year later I created a course on Major Gift Fundraising, and then happily sold those through email marketing, experimenting with webinars, with workshops, bringing affiliate income into the mix.

[00:08:15] Caroline: And then in 2023, I'm sure Jess in particular will remember this, there were big changes in email which impacted our deliverability.yeah, that's, maybe May, June 2023. Suddenly our emails were not getting delivered. We went from having a 40 percent open rate to a 20 percent open rate. Which was quite stressful because I was trying to sell a workshop at the time.

[00:08:39] Caroline: it's important. It's imperative that those emails get through and they didn't.we worked with an IT specialist. We got it fixed. We're not techie people. But then four months later, it happened again. And our emails were not getting delivered. And the reason, I mean, , like basic level, I mean, Jess, you could probably explain this a lot better than I could, Cindy, you could too, but essentially because most email marketing software platforms are sending emails as if they were from you directly.

[00:09:07] Caroline: So the email would land in people's inboxes and it would be from hello at locale. uk A lot of, email servers and, the sort of classically, risk averse email settings that exist in non profits were just sending our emails straight into junk. and at the same time, I was very conscious that our online courses had been around for a really long time.

[00:09:30] Caroline: They'd been active for sort of four or five years. they had done really well. But they were in need of updating. There were certainly things in those courses where I thought my goodness, I would not be teaching that in that way now. I'd learned a lot in those five years. I'd learned about community centric fundraising, for example, I had started to shift my own practices.

[00:09:53] Caroline: And I was very conscious that both courses needed one hell of an upgrade. And,you've talked podcast before, it's not as simple as just make a course like if you are not an expert in graphic design, in video production, in editing, it's not as simple as just making a course.

[00:10:12] Caroline: we had to pay people to help us with that production. And even before you do that, the time it takes to just create the content, rehearse the content, it's such a. It's such an incredible endeavor. So I was thinking, okay, , I don't really want to update these courses.

[00:10:32] Caroline: What can I do? And,as you go through your journey as an entrepreneur, you learn so much and you learn about the things that you enjoy and you learn the parts of it you don't enjoy as much. And, you can outsource those. That's great.but I didn't want a big business. I wasn't interested.

[00:10:51] Caroline: In having a massive team, so I thought,what is it that I really love about this work and what I absolutely adore is writing emails, and I'm a trust and foundations fundraiser at heart, writing is my jam. And I thought, look, there is sub stack now so instead of writing emails to build trust and then encourage people to buy your products.

[00:11:14] Caroline: What if the email itself were the product and that is what you can do through Substack. 

[00:11:20] Jess: So yeah. Amazing. and I want to get into all of that, but before we do, I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about, the investment that you make in, have made in email, like before Substack and then now, because I think, I hear this every single week, every time I talk about writing.

[00:11:42] Jess: Emails and newsletters and I hear all the time from people like they basically throw their eyes up behind their head and they do this big and they're like they all everyone knows they should be starting an email newsletter and I say should If you are an or if you're a consultant who works with two to five organizations a year and you have no interest in scale, like I am on team Cindy with you don't need an email newsletter, but I hear it a lot.

[00:12:12] Jess: People knowing that they could or it would enhance their business. To have a newsletter, but like I just saw someone Caitlin who's Been on this podcast and communities that we're in she was like it took me two years To see the ROI from a newsletter and I'm sitting here thinking wow who has two years to to be patient, and so I'm just I mean, I talk a lot about the ROI of my email list, and I've been able to calculate very specific numbers related to that.

[00:12:48] Jess: I also know that I will never be out of business as long as I have my email list. I can call on business any time, but if you're just starting from scratch, that's like A big hill to climb and I'm just curious like what was either the moment for you that you were like Oh, this is the way or this is easier or this is worth it Because I think that's actually the place that a lot of people are in not to sub stack or not to sub stack It's to invest in this marketing channel to not invest in this marketing channel

 

[00:13:19] Caroline: Yes, lots to say as always. so the first thing I want to say is I, yeah, I really like what you say about there are some consultants out there who work with a small number of clients each year and for them that is sufficient. And I think if you, and I drunk, the online business Kool Aid back in 2018.

[00:13:45] Caroline: by that point I had been a, I was a single mum back then for a while.I've always been the breadwinner in my family. you know, my daughter was still quite young back then. So she's 14 now. So she was quite young and I think I was just a bit tired.so the idea of scaling was really attractive.

[00:14:07] Caroline: to me at that point. And you listen to the podcasts, you listen to Amy Porterfield and you think, Oh yeah, she's telling me I can do this too. Why wouldn't I? And, we all know that unless actually you were an early adopter and got on the Facebook ads train in 2011.

[00:14:23] Caroline: It isn't as easy right now. So yes, to your question,at what point do you decide whether or not it's worth it? So my timeline, I started my email list in 2019 in May and I launched it with a lead magnet that was a report and it was a report that was a very important report in our sector. It was called fund ratios and it's basically a report that, charities are asked to submit their data.

[00:14:59] Caroline: How much are you raising and how much are you spending for each type of fundraising? And then it calculates a ratio. So trustees would look at it and they would say, Oh, trust and foundations is raising eight pounds. for every one pound that is spent versus events, which only raises two pounds for every one pound spent.

[00:15:17] Caroline: it's not a perfect thing for obvious reasons. It can be a bit of a blunt instrument, but largely it is a report that's helpful to people and important to people. And it had not been updated. So I took it upon myself to update it. And it did go,it went, I don't want to say it went wild, you know, it's, it's like it's a report on ratios and return on investment and fundraising.

[00:15:41] Caroline: It didn't go wild, but it was popular. I got a lot of downloads. I got a lot of people onto my list.and by December, so this is obviously May, from May, I start to write weekly newsletters. on the topic of trusts and foundations fundraising because I know that's what I want my course to be about and in December I pre sold the course and I had, I didn't even have 200 people on the list at that point, maybe it was around 200 and I thought you know what if one person buys this I'm gonna make itand what I found the more I got into writing my newsletter.

[00:16:20] Caroline: So now,six years on, I would say it's the best thing hands down I've ever done in my business because it's given me choices. You know, it brings a steady stream of new leads, new consultancy leads to the business.and then it also gives me choices about creating and selling different types of product.

[00:16:41] Caroline: And I love the creativity that comes with the opportunity to experiment.but most of all, I love writing the emails and I write them for me, every time I write something, I get mental, emotional, professional clarification on a topic that's important to me and my readers.I get to really clarify in my mind what it is I think about something.

[00:17:09] Caroline: I get to work through client problems,challenges that my clients are facing. I write about that. And then I solved the problem. it's a wonderful way of unpacking and unpicking your thoughts and to be, and I'm just lucky that other people want to read those too. I can't remember who it was, I think it was Jason Freed who said that he and David Heinemeier Hansen built Basecamp because it was something they needed.

[00:17:37] Caroline: And for them. They just happened to be in luck that other people found it useful too. I write for me and I feel lucky that other people resonate with what I'm saying and find it useful too. so Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's, if that's, um, . . I don't know the ROI from my email list, actually.

[00:17:58] Caroline: I'd be really interested to perhaps go back over the figures. I just think most 

[00:18:02] Cindy: Feels like a project well aligned to you to check the ROI. I love that story. I love it. there's so many things you said that I don't want to like stay on because I want to talk about switching over and monetizing this.

[00:18:19] Cindy: but just to like highlight, if you didn't pick up on these things, go back and listen. So really valuable lead magnet, selling before, like before you build it. Those are like, there's so many great things you said. 

 

[00:18:38] Jess: Alright, Caroline, we are back for another round of rapid fire questions. You ready? I am ready. Okay, amazing. It would be just a travesty to not ask you, what are some of your favorite Substack newsletters? So I 

[00:18:57] Caroline: absolutely want, oh, yeah, I would love to shout out Liz LeClaire, who has just started writing on Substack.

[00:19:05] Caroline: She writes Uprising Philanthropy, and it is her continued exploration into the world of dismantling all things patriarchy, white supremacy. It is a sort of continued exploration of her own activism, but she is naturally a very generous and very thoughtful writer. So go and find Liz LeClaire and subscribe.

[00:19:30] Caroline: And I also, I've got, I've got to mention Lisa Greer's substack, which I think is a very well kept secret. So Lisa Greer is the author of Philanthropy Revolution and the Fundraiser's Handbook. She is an LA based philanthropist. And her books basically talk about her own personal experiences of engaging with fundraisers and what that's like for her as a philanthropist.

[00:19:55] Caroline: Absolutely fascinating. But she has a really great sub stack called Philanthropy 451. And if you're a paid member of her sub stack, she hosts a monthly call for her and anybody in the community that wants to join and we just talk about fundraising, and she'll raise topical issues and we just have a discussion as a group and that's been really interesting for me to engage with some fundraisers from predominantly from the US.

[00:20:24] Caroline: because it is slightly different and I just really enjoy learning from you guys across the pond. It's great. Absolutely. 

[00:20:31] Jess: Yes. Oh my gosh. I got, I have to look her up. she's my neighbor to the north. okay. Next question. What is the best way to take a cup of tea? 

[00:20:41] Caroline: Okay, this is very important.

[00:20:43] Caroline: so yeah, so you make your tea with hot water and tea, a tea bag. I know, I'm a coffee snob, but I'm not a tea snob. hot water and you need to steep it for a few minutes. please leave the bag in. Don't pull the bag out too early. and then I like my tea with a bit of oat milk. But not too much.

[00:21:04] Caroline: My sister is an absolute,I don't know the word, but basically she like dips the bag in, pulls the bag right out and then just chucks half a pint of milk in and it's just disgusting. It's like dishwater and we constantly, we fall out about this a lot. yeah, you want it like nice and brown and it's called, we call it builder's tea.

[00:21:22] Caroline: Okay. Because it's what builders, yeah, builders drink, 

[00:21:25] Jess: Yes. No. It's very important. Yeah. Okay. And with a scone. 

[00:21:29] Caroline: Have a scone on the side as well. A scone with cream and jam and yeah, that's the West Country dweller in me talking there. 

[00:21:37] Jess: Yeah. That sounds delightful. okay. And last question.

[00:21:41] Jess: Can you complete this sentence? In another life I would have been a A 

[00:21:47] Jess (2): Like, professionally. I would have been a singer, 

[00:21:51] Caroline: so I did a music degree and I was a, actually a semi professional choral singer singing in London church choirs. for quite a few years, which is amazing. I don't do it anymore. I know, it was really fun.

[00:22:08] Caroline: I don't do it anymore. I do a bit of karaoke every now and then. 

[00:22:11] Jess (2): But that's the extent of it. So yeah. 

[00:22:14] Jess: Oh, so fun. Oh my gosh, such a fun one. Okay. thank you for playing. 

[00:22:24] Cindy: So tell us a little bit more about Now that you're on Substack, how,I don't actually subscribe to any Substacks. I know, Jess is, I know, okay, so, for a newbie like me, , how much are you charging? How often do you publish? How many subscribers? give us all the information.

[00:22:44] Cindy: Pretend we know, because I know nothing. 

[00:22:48] Jess: Okay. I just have to laugh because, Just during this interview, I've already found her subsec and subscribed, like that's how Cindy's over here. I've never been in subsec. Step one, download the app, subsec 

[00:23:03] Cindy: app. 

[00:23:05] Jess: Step two, take us away. 

[00:23:07] Cindy: Take care. Tell us about it from a business perspective and yeah.

[00:23:13] Cindy: Okay. How does it 

[00:23:15] Caroline: work 

[00:23:15] Cindy: for you, 

[00:23:16] Caroline: Caroline? so in terms of where, so in terms of our, income. we primarily get paid through consultancy. And I want to add a little bit of context. I think it's really important to add a little bit about personal context when it comes to, income. Because everybody's very different.

[00:23:34] Caroline: Everybody's circumstances are very different. So we live in a very cheap part of the UK. We live in an intentionally very small home.we don't have a massively extravagant lifestyle, so we don't need tons of money to live, which is good because, I think the non profit sector is quite different in the UK, and there's a much lower ceiling on what we as consultants can earn.

[00:23:59] Caroline: So we, you know, we charge close to the top of that, and consultancy pretty much makes up the, the money that we need to just live. a basic life. So we will find it. So for me, what was more important was creating simplicity in the business. I don't need Substack to make me a fortune. And I'm going to be really honest and open with you.

[00:24:25] Caroline: It's a slow burn. It is a low value product, which requires a high volume of subscribers, which I don't yet have, but I'm on the path. and crucially I'm getting paid to do something that I was doing anyway. Because I love writing those emails. I'm absolutely committed to, you know, packing them full of value and tactical advice for fundraisers.

[00:24:50] Caroline: so how does it work? So I moved in November 2023, we moved our email subscriber list from MailChimp over to Substack. And now MailChimp, The traditional, email service providers like MailChimp, and the others, of course, Kit, MailerLite, all of those will typically charge you a monthly fee based on your subscriber count.

[00:25:16] Caroline: So we were paying about 60 a month, which is about like 70, 80 a month for an email list of around 3, 000 people. Now at the same time, we took our lead magnet down because the lead magnet wasn't bringing to us the people that were likely to be the ones buying the product. It was a slightly different fit.

[00:25:45] Caroline: The lead magnet was very much aimed at directors and leaders, whereas the content that I write is for fundraisers. So I thought, do you know what? we just give that lead magnet away. You can just have it. It's on our website. You don't need to give us your email address. I want an organic, slow grow, where the right people are coming to the list.

[00:26:06] Caroline: So we move about 3, 000 people over, and we just start to, we just continue writing weekly emails. we write a weekly email every Tuesday, 10 o'clock, it goes out, without fail. apart from in August and December, where we take a break. In January, we turn on paid, and we said to people, look, we've written this for free now, for free.

[00:26:29] Caroline: Five years. We're going to be retiring our online courses in the next year. We will be moving that content To the nest egg, which is our signature product and it's the place the only place where we share everything we know about how to grow your income for your non profit and we invited people to sign up for a cost of six pounds a month or sixty pounds a year and That was January 2023, and where are we now?

[00:27:04] Caroline: February 2020. Sorry, that was January 2024. So in February 2025, a year on, we now have a subscriber list in total of 3, 291, of which 113 are paid. Now, if you're a paid subscriber, you get weekly emails. If you're a free subscriber, you get monthly emails. So that's basically how it works. So it is a game of volume, and it is, yeah, it is something that requires, it is going to require a bit of a slow burn.

[00:27:44] Caroline: But I'm here for the journey, and I'm having a lot of fun. 

[00:27:47] Cindy: Awesome, okay. Again, newbie question. for the people, Is the content, the weekly content, exclusive, like, behind a paywall? Because I can go and look at your Substack. The stuff that I see on there, I'm assuming those are the monthly ones that everyone gets?

[00:28:06] Cindy: And then the other stuff is not available? Or, how does that, it's all available, but I just don't get it in my inbox if I'm not subscribing. Yeah, so 

[00:28:14] Caroline: this is one of the great things about Substack, is it's like a blog as well. So as well as delivering emails to our subscribers. It also lives on its own site in a sort of blog format.

[00:28:24] Caroline: So you're selling the access to weekly emails, but people can also go back and look at that full archive. And if you look at the posts closely, just some of them have a little padlock on them. And I'm not massively strict about one a month for free. One a week for paid because of course, Substack is the only place now where I host an email list.

[00:28:49] Caroline: A lot of business owners will still continue to host an email list in a more traditional email software because Substack is quite limited in its technological capabilities. So you cannot, for example, set up automations. You get like one welcome email. it's very simple. the email is the product.

[00:29:11] Caroline: Now, you can of course, and I do, use Substack to sell additional products. But, I found last year, I'm still selling some workshops. I was doing some affiliate sales for some other company's products. And I just, this year, I'm just determined to go all in on Substack and on the Nest Egg.

[00:29:33] Caroline: It is our signature product. I wrote, I was listening to an edition of Confessions and I wrote down the words. It's big launch energy. And in January, I went at it with a big launch energy because I decided I was going to put the price up in February. And so I'm constantly selling my newsletter as Essentially a low cost training option, which, it's a thing to get your head around, for sure, it's quite difficult, I don't know if the two of you have found this, but when you are an early adopter of something new and different, the non profit sector can be very slow on the uptick.

[00:30:12] Caroline: And I have definitely suffered from that. But I feel like, I feel like Substack is only going to grow. There are quite a few fundraisers on there now. some really wonderful newsletters. And I feel like it is, it's a platform that is going to grow. Especially now Meta are doing all sorts of sketchy things.

[00:30:32] Caroline: Um, I mean, Substack are not perfect. But, yeah, I feel like growth is, there's huge potential for growth. 

[00:30:42] Jess: okay. So many questions. I guess what I'd love for you to talk a little bit about. I said this 100 times last week when I was on a bajillion client calls or potential client calls, and I basically said it doesn't matter what you your product is your program is.

[00:30:57] Jess: If no one knows about it, it doesn't matter. And Like really, I'm curious about the marketing of this and you just talked about big launch energy and all these things because,I think actually the vast majority of people are in Cindy's camp where they're like, I've never even been on subset.

[00:31:14] Jess: They're not just like searching up, fundraising newsletters and advice columns and what have you. You do have an uphill battle, so to speak, because like you said, we're in an industry that tends to be a bit behind. And so I'm curious how you are putting this out there, announcing this, I don't know if you do, sub stack quote unquote drives to push members,what does that kind of content acquisition loop look like?

[00:31:44] Jess: and is it mimic your past life of just having a newsletter or is it totally different? So 

[00:31:52] Caroline: again, something that Substack do that other email marketing providers don't is they have a built-in recommendations feature. So within the substack app, the sub, so Substack will highlight and promote content within the app and will show that content to readers and you as a creator have the power to recommend other writers that are on substack.

[00:32:22] Caroline: So late last year I reached out to two or three other writers that I really liked and really admired. And I said, look, I'm writing on Substack. These are my stats. This is my audience. This is my content. I love your work. I would like to recommend my, I would like to recommend your Substack to my readers.

[00:32:46] Caroline: And I would invite you to do the same. And all of them said yes. And so that has generated quite a few new subscribers. However, I think that Non profit management philanthropy is a bit niche still and a bit new, you know The fact that sort of little old me from Plymouth in the UK can be like the first Substack bestseller in the sector. 

[00:33:11] it goes to show how new it is. So Substack have a sort of social media feed within the app called notes At the moment, I am not using that because I just don't believe that the majority of my audience are there. So I use LinkedIn for that discovery platform. So it's LinkedIn. It's recommending other writers on Substack.

[00:33:40] Caroline: And you know what, it's writing really good content, because I think if you write really good content, you can invite readers to share, and I do, and I think that people do just share it naturally. I know that happens. So it's word of mouth, LinkedIn. And then the recommendation feature. I may try notes in the future.

[00:34:00] Caroline: I may go and do an experiment where I perhaps post on notes every single day for a month and see what happens. I'll report back, I'll let you know. But it doesn't feel like a priority at the moment because it is still very new. 

[00:34:13] Cindy: That is so fascinating. and just, I love that again, it's something you're kind of doing anyways, and you are finding a way to monetize it, and I think, again, one of the things you said that really stood out is, it's got to be quality, right?

[00:34:30] Cindy: So, um, quality content. Having that at home and then doubling down and really going in with that, prioritizing it. Okay, before we ask for confessions, I want to just, um, oftentimes saying yes to something means saying no to other things. And we briefly talked about this, but I'd love to hear, like, when you go all in on this, what are things that you are intentionally just being like, not doing that or I don't have time for these things anymore.

[00:35:05] Caroline: Yeah, so I've closed my online courses now and, they were lucrative. So when I first started to sell those courses, they were going for 480 pounds a go, which, is over 500. you sell 10 of those, it's 5, 000 pounds, you know, and And so, you know, I am saying, I am saying no to that.

[00:35:27] Caroline: But, there's a myth that is passive income. It's not passive. Um, you know, for all the reasons that, you know, you and previous guests have discussed, online course sales, it's not a panacea and it's not an easy route to riches. It's just a different kind of job.And so I am saying no to online courses.

[00:35:52] Caroline: I'm also, I also really enjoy selling workshops and teaching workshops. So often I just have an idea for a workshop, a topic that I want to teach on. And I will create the content, I'll sell it using my email list. Now I did this last year and I used Substack to promote. And, and it was great.

[00:36:16] Caroline: I think I sold about a hundred places,40 pounds a place. So it was a good, injection of income into my business. But for that month, I did not get any new paid subscribers to my sub stack.and it's a lot of work creating a training workshop is, is a huge, is a huge piece of work.

[00:36:39] Caroline: And for me, it's about. simplicity and doing the things in my business that I really enjoy, because I'm so lucky to be at a point in my career where I can do that, I don't have to hustle really hard. and yes, there's a simplicity in being able to monetize. thing that you would be doing anyway and a thing that you probably would do if nobody paid you for it because you love it so much.

[00:37:04] Caroline: So yeah, so no to online courses, probably no to workshops, probably having to turn down the affiliate marketing a little bit as well. Because I do truly believe that the most successful call to actions within an email are where you minimize those call to actions. So you really ideally you only have one.

[00:37:27] Caroline: So I rewrote yesterday's email because my yesterday's email was so chaotic. It was basically, please fill my survey in. Please upgrade your subscription if you haven't already. Please pop on to LinkedIn and fill in this poll. Please go and read these articles if you haven't read them already. And I was like,no.

[00:37:43] Caroline: And I was, I just, I couldn't. So I had to do a very kind of last minute edit. I was like, no, let's just. Let's just, encourage people to upgrade their subscription, do the survey, and here's the article. Yeah. Love 

[00:37:57] Cindy: it. 

[00:37:57] Caroline: Yeah. 

[00:38:00] Cindy: Ah, amazing. all right, before we wrap up, we have to ask for a confession.

[00:38:06] Cindy: I know you're a listener, so Caroline, tell us your confession. 

[00:38:12] Caroline: Okay, this took me ages to come up with. then it just felt so right. And it's so true. My confession is that sometimes I have these fantasies of just like ditching everything, like burning the business down and going and getting a job as a major gift fundraiser in a lovely organization and just having one job with one portfolio of donors and.

[00:38:39] Caroline: Just that is the dream and you know, I, I have in the last couple of years, I have had moments where I've actually pursued this and I have applied for some dream roles that have come up. You know, there are trade offs, there are trade offs aren't there? And,and as much as it would be lovely sometimes to have the headspace of just one client.

[00:39:01] Caroline: Actually, the variety of working with lots of different clients is amazing. It's pretty magical and the collaboration that ends up happening because you take the learnings from one and you bring them to another and then you share them back, it's it's really joyful. so yes, I won't enacting that fantasy just yet.

[00:39:20] Cindy: That's always like my backup plan. I'm like, if the world implodes, which, it might. Then at least I can always go get a job doing fundraising or honestly, there's so many other things we could do. yeah, you know what? I think a lot of people experience that, especially in times when it's frustrating or hard or, you know, a client is late paying their bills or, you know.

[00:39:49] Cindy: Sheneen, why you're worth this money or whatever. So, yeah, although our friend Ria says we're too feral now. Can't ever go back. Oh, I'm 

[00:40:02] Caroline: completely, I'm completely unemployable. my partner says If, if anyone had the misfortune to be your boss, it would just be so bad for them. And please don't, inflict yourself upon anybody in that way anytime soon.

[00:40:13] Caroline: charming. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for that. Tells me 

[00:40:17] Cindy: everything. Yeah. Amazing.Caroline, where can our listeners connect with you? You mentioned LinkedIn, Substack, where else? 

[00:40:29] Caroline: Just LinkedIn and Substack. my name is Caroline Danks, and you'll find me on LinkedIn. My Substack is called The Nest Egg.

[00:40:37] Caroline: and it's, yeah, that's really where you can find me. I'm very,I'm very basic when it comes to focusing on only a couple of platforms, as I say, just want to try and keep things simple, but yeah, come and find me, come and say, hi, I'd love, I, I love meeting new people and connecting with new fundraising friends all over the world.

[00:40:56] Caroline: Let's do it. 

[00:40:58] Jess: Love 

[00:40:58] Caroline: it. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much. It's like dream come true stuff. I'm just, yeah, delightful. Thank you. 


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