I want to make sure when I'm investing money it is aligned with my values and business goals. - Cindy Wagman 

Conferences: The Good, the Bad, and the Work to be Done - A Behind the Scenes Hot Take

Ever felt the pull of those big fundraising conferences, imagining the potential clients and connections waiting just beyond those booth walls? Cindy sure did! But after two experiences, one exhilarating, the other... well, let's just say "eye-opening," we’re here to share the raw, unfiltered truth about what it's REALLY like to be a small fish in a big conference pond.

In this episode, we’re pulling back the curtain on Cindy’s adventures at AFP Icon and Raise. We'll talk about the hidden costs, the surprising challenges, and the hard-earned lessons about ROI. Get ready for some real talk about diversity, pay equity, and why speaking up, even when it's scary, is essential. 

Key Takeaways:

• Conference exhibiting is a gamble: It's important to go in with realistic expectations and a willingness to experiment. Not every conference will be a home run, and that's okay.

• Do your homework: Before committing to a conference, research its values, audience, and reputation. Make sure it aligns with your business goals and your personal values.

• Speak up and advocate for change: Don't be afraid to share your experiences and push for a more equitable and inclusive conference landscape. Your voice matters!

• There are alternatives to traditional conferences: If the cost and ROI of exhibiting aren't adding up, consider virtual summits, webinars, or other online events to connect with your audience.

• Community matters: Building relationships with other small businesses and consultants can lead to creative solutions and collaborative opportunities. Let's support each other and create a more accessible and inclusive conference experience for everyone

Timestamp summary: 

[00:01:44] Jess asks Cindy about her recent conference experience.

[00:02:14] Cindy shares her experience exhibiting at the Raise conference, a nonprofit fundraising conference.

[00:03:37] Cindy explains her strategy for choosing conferences to attend, prioritizing diversity, speaker pay, and conference size.

[00:07:00] Cindy details the challenges and frustrations of exhibiting at the AFP Icon conference.

[00:10:37] The conversation shifts to the challenges faced by small businesses and consultants in participating in conferences.

[00:13:31] Cindy breaks down the costs associated with exhibiting at conferences.

[00:17:00] Jess and Cindy discuss the challenges of audience building and lead generation at conferences.

[00:21:29] Jess suggests alternative marketing strategies, such as virtual summits.

[00:24:27] The discussion turns to the broader issues with conferences, including high costs, lack of diversity, and exploitation of speakers.

[00:28:12] Cindy expresses her desire to work with conference organizers to make exhibiting more accessible for small businesses.

[00:32:22] Jess and Cindy wrap up the conversation, inviting listeners to share their thoughts and questions.

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com

Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/

LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman

Connect with Jess:

Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/

Transcript:

[00:01:31] Cindy: Hey, Jess. So nice to see you. We're in the thick of it - it's not even the end of the year, but it feels like it because you're doing all your client work.

[00:01:44] Jess: I'm glad we have some recording time. To be transparent, we had an hour gifted back to us. Normally, I'm all about that, but we need to batch some recordings. I've been wanting to ask you about your experience at your recent conference. You had a LinkedIn post that had some good takeaways. We thought, let's press record and you can tell us all about it. If we have time, it could be interesting to talk about how we think about marketing and putting our businesses in new spaces. I know it's something we're both thinking about all the time.

[00:02:14] Cindy: There are many ways to do marketing.

[00:02:33] Jess: I just rewatched all the Back to the Future movies, which are so good. I had never seen the third one, which is crazy because I can recite the first one line by line.

[00:02:42] Cindy: We just watched Beetlejuice, the original, and then the new one. There's an old movie kick happening.

[00:02:55] Jess: Liv just went on a camping trip with Brad, and they watched an old movie. It turns out it was a Camp Rock movie with the Jonas Brothers and Demi Lovato.

[00:03:22] Cindy: When you say camping and classic, I think Parent Trap or Troop Beverly Hills.

[00:03:36] Jess: There's a lot of ways to do marketing.

[00:03:37] Cindy: Full disclosure, I'm experimenting and testing. From a risk perspective, it's healthy not to invest in the outcome and not get disappointed if it doesn't go as planned. I'm looking at this as a testing opportunity to see what works, what doesn't, and if it works, is it scalable? I don't know until I try, but if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it properly.

[00:04:10] For background, for people who haven't seen the LinkedIn post, I've now had two booths at conferences specific to my work in the fractional fundraising network. I had one at AFP Icon, North America's biggest fundraising conference. Then, I did a lot of homework and decided to exhibit at a conference called Raise, which is hosted by One Cause.

[00:04:41] The booth... I racked my brains. I don't want just a table and chairs with a banner. We have two audiences: fundraisers who could become fractional fundraisers through my program, and small nonprofits who don't have a lot of in-house fundraising capacity but have some money to hire. I was like, how do I talk to both audiences at the same time? Then I had this idea: you can have your cake and eat it too. Both reduce or eliminate compromise in our sector. Fundraisers usually kind of sell out by going to the big shops, whereas with this model, they can make more money and work with small, mission-aligned organizations. With small nonprofits, they have their small budget, but they can access experienced support who also don't just do strategy, but they come and do implementation. So everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too. I'm going all out. I have a ton of cupcakes at our booths. It's designed to feel rich and decadent, Louis the 14th kind of opulence. It also depends on what furniture I can find to rent. But that's the overall vibe of it. It's fun and girly, and it really stands out in the sea of conference exhibit booths, which is important to me. I want to take up space. I want to be known for doing things differently. I want to be seen in the sector as a disruptor. Sometimes we downplay ambitious motivations, but I like to talk about ambition.

[00:06:52] Jess: You haven't done this before. Why did you strategically, out of all the fundraising conferences out there, decide to go to Raise?

[00:07:00] Cindy: The first thing I look at is diversity in the speaker lineup. It's important for me to put my money where my mouth is. The second thing I look at is, do they pay their speakers? Sadly, I could only find one conference that's big enough that does pay their speakers this year. And they've already told me that they're not guaranteeing they're going to do that next year, and they didn't meet criteria number one.

[00:07:45] Jess: They're paying speakers, but not like a $500 honorarium across the board?

[00:07:48] Cindy: A lot of conferences pay some speakers, but it's not a rule. There might be some conferences, smaller conferences, very regional, that do pay some if not all of their speakers, but they're generally not big enough.

[00:08:28] The third criterion is, is it big enough? Like a couple hundred people is probably not big enough for me to haul my ass from Toronto. Traveling from Toronto to the U.S. is more expensive than within the U.S. There are a few conferences in Canada, but the same issues are there in terms of diversity, which some of them are getting better at, some of them are not.

[00:09:01] I want to make sure when I'm investing money, it is aligned with my values and business goals.

[00:09:54] Jess: You do all this research, have this criterion, and you basically came up with this one conference.

[00:09:59] Cindy: I also reached out to a couple that kind of fit the criteria, but I had heard... I also ask around. I think reputation is really important. For example, there's Bridge Conference, which our friend Rhea spoke at. She keynoted. She got paid a lot of money to do that. But if you're not a keynote, they ask you to pay to attend the days you're not speaking.

[00:10:34] Jess: Literally bananas. In what world?

[00:10:37] Cindy: Yeah, there is one called CauseCamp. I think they've changed ownership over the last couple years. It came down to Raise. I was prepared to not do it if I didn't feel there was a good fit. I spoke to the Cause team - they are lovely. They were so pleasant to work with, completely the opposite experience of my exhibiting at Icon.

[00:11:02] AFP Global does not actually run the day-to-day of Icon; that is outsourced. And it's not built for small vendors like us. There were surprise charges. The event was just very rigid and not helpful - no one explained things.

[00:11:19] Jess: It was annoying because they didn't prepare you before you committed, and navigating the systems and the information and forms was not good.

[00:11:45] Cindy: I'm not doing Icon again from a values perspective.

[00:12:00] Jess: They're on a run disappointing people.

[00:12:02] Cindy: Yeah, like AFP Global, I'm optimistic. I've heard there's leadership changes and potential, but for now, it's a no.

[00:12:10] AFP Toronto, where I'm based, they're making changes, but it's slow. Anyway, that's that. But Icon, I was like, what is this? I don't know how to navigate this, and I'm like, I think I'm a smart enough person, but it was just really hard. Whereas at Raise with One Cause, I could ask a million questions. They were quick to get back to me. It was hosted at the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville.

[00:12:30] I had a good time and felt cared for by the teams. It was a fun conference. The speakers were amazing. So many friends. I'm going to miss people for sure. From many metrics, it was really good. Compared to Icon, it was smaller, but the attendees were more curious and engaging with the exhibitors.

[00:13:12] I feel like at Icon, people avoid the hall. This felt more welcoming. They already announced next year's conference is in Texas. I know there's a lot of people, especially in Canada, who won't go to certain parts of the States.

[00:13:31] Jess: Even if they won't go, I heard it was more local or regional nonprofits, whereas Icon is the biggest, so it draws people from all over the place and all organizations of all different sizes. He said this one was more

[00:13:42] Cindy: Yeah. I am thinking about that in terms of my own values. So far I haven't traveled anywhere because of that, but it is possible. That's the location. It was a positive experience. I don't feel we got enough ROI to justify doing it again. Let me break down the cost. They didn't have the option for just a booth, which at Icon was about $2,200-$2,300. I couldn't, which I think is reasonable for just the space. At Icon, though, if you want a plug, you pay extra. Want a garbage bin, extra. Carpet, extra. Everything's extra. And they have these hideous colored drapes. So of course, I'm gonna get drapes. So there were a lot of extras there.

[00:14:43] At Raise, the booths were only for sponsors, so I had to sponsor, which was a lot of money, about $8,000.

[00:14:56] Jess: Wow

[00:14:57] Cindy: I will give Raise so much credit. They reached out to me after they saw my LinkedIn post and they said, "We'd love to talk to you about this." I said, "Yeah, I had a great time. It's just really hard to justify the expense, but if you want to talk about how to make it accessible for small businesses, I will gladly chat." And we're having a conversation that hasn't happened yet. What happens when you speak up? People commented on the LinkedIn post, "I've been wondering or thinking about this." These are things that feel gatekeeped, and there's no reason why they should be.

[00:15:36] Jess: What other benefits did you get as a sponsor outside of your space?

[00:15:41] Cindy: I can't remember because none were meaningful to me, like logo recognition. I think we got... Their conference app had a sister app where you could scan people and collect their contact information.

[00:16:01] Jess: I feel very reluctant to... A lot of booths there, and this is a broader strategy we can talk about, their whole thing is, "Enter our contest or win something and we'll scan your badge." Their whole thing is very transactional.

[00:16:23] Cindy: Yeah. Which, and then they spam you. And some conferences, I don't think Raise did, but even if they did, like some conferences you do get full contact information for everyone there as a sponsor. Other conferences, like Icon, I'm pretty sure I can purchase that. Again, that gives me the ick. That is not why people sign up for the conference. And it's not helpful for me from a lead's perspective. Those are people who are just going to poison my list by unsubscribing en masse.

[00:17:00] Jess: I see a lot of people participating in that style of audience building. It's hard for me to say that's the wrong move because to each their own. I'd rather have a small engaged list than a large unengaged list. There are successful business models that play the volume game. It's like there's no such thing as a free lunch, right? Like it's work in other ways that will come at a cost, whether that's your reputation, whether that's the feeling people get when you start to communicate with them, whether that's the work you have to do in cleaning that up. There's a cost.

[00:17:37] Cindy: Yeah. So we did use the scanner after we had conversations with people and they're like, "Oh, can you follow up?" So I ended up scanning a handful of names, and I sent them a follow-up. I also just... that's... I feel awkward in a conversation being like, "Let me take my phone and scan your thing." I sent them an email saying it was great to meet you. Here's the next step. If you want to subscribe, they still had to opt into our email list. I'll also connect with all those people on LinkedIn.

[00:18:08] So that's how I use the banner. We give out cards, which on one side is training for fractional fundraisers - sign up for free training to learn more about becoming a fractional fundraiser. The other side is, "We'll match you with a fractional fundraiser, just fill in the form." We didn't get a lot of uptake on either. We gave out a good number and had good conversations. I connected with people on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is actually... which is crazy because I want people on my email list. Not a lot of people took that card and subscribed, so I'm gonna think about how can I get people to take that action more in terms of fill in the... like some... some in-between smaller step for them so that I can do more specific follow-up to get them on the... like an interest list or something.

[00:19:07] But so I want to figure out the back end a little bit because it was asking for them to input more information. That's how we collected leads. I don't know how many... A couple were interested in becoming fractional fundraisers, but not yet. And then there were a good handful of organizations were like, "Oh my god, I need a fractional fundraiser." They haven't filled out my intake form, but they could have reached out to people in our network directly that I don't know.

[00:19:23] So overall, that was low. It was $8,000 for the sponsorship and booth, which included, yeah, like the ability to scan people's cards, apps, all that kind of stuff. None of that has much value to me. I want meaningful conversations, connect with the right people, and then move forward with those people alone.

[00:19:44] The booth is what... Our booth is fun. People love it. They don't know what fractional fundraising is, so they're always curious because we have cupcakes, and they come and ask, "Oh, what is this?" So that was great.

[00:20:03] But the other costs... $8,000 for sponsorship, food, and rentals because I rent furniture. Now I didn't measure the furniture or anything. We ended up having like giant furniture. It was way more than we needed. And One Cause was so gracious. We ended up taking a little bit more space than our designated... but no one said anything. They were lovely about it.

[00:20:28] So we had rentals and food, which is cupcakes and macarons. The venue got... did the food, and we used one of their suppliers for the rentals. I think combined those were about $3,500 U.S. And then my travel and accommodation. And I paid for Sarah Hushley, who's one of the fractional fundraisers in our network and one of the coaches in my program. So I paid for her to attend with me. I covered travel and accommodation. If I'm honest, I feel like I should pay more, so I might do that next year. Get $1,000, which is more than you get paid if you're speaking at the conference. But she really did work the booth for me. I would pay more next time because she's not getting immediate business development. We funneled everyone into a centralized...

[00:21:26] Jess: Yeah

[00:21:26] Cindy: Those are the costs. What else can I tell you?

[00:21:29] Jess: Do you feel like your challenge is informing and educating people on fractional fundraising and trying to recruit for your business? So, like you've got just a challenge. Yeah. And do you feel like this group compared to Icon was more or less familiar with fractional fundraising?

[00:21:49] Cindy: No one's familiar. It was about equal, and I don't...

[00:21:54] Jess: This is why you need to do your own... For the amount of time, effort, and money you spent, you could have had a virtual summit and gotten better results. But it's also, do you want to? You have to want to do it because it's a ton of work. Your quality of lead list and volume of lead list would be...

[00:22:23] Cindy: One thing I am gonna do...

[00:22:25] Jess: Outsource it for that much...

[00:22:26] Cindy: That's you...

[00:22:27] Jess: Outsource the whole thing. I actually don't know what content I would have for an online summit like it would be fundraising, a super repetitive to what everyone else does, which I know there's still space for everything. Anyways. Maybe we could feature fractional fundraisers in our network and have them present on different topics...

[00:22:48] Cindy: Combos of nonprofits plus fractional fundraisers? I think you could do that.

[00:23:02] Jess: The content that you would do is all the pain points people are struggling with. For starting, it's like, "How do I get my first client? How do I prepare for a budget?" It's all that...

[00:23:05] Cindy: Yeah. That you already do. I was thinking you meant for fundraisers. Okay, fractional fundraisers. Yeah, because that's where you make your money is people joining your program to become fractional fundraisers.

[00:23:16] Cindy: I also have a strong feeling of obligation to do as much as I can to drum up business for people in my network as well. And so, and build like the general awareness.

[00:23:25] Jess: Yeah, but I don't think that's your responsibility to be on like a biz development side. I also think that that is going to happen as your network grows and as people become more familiar. You got to do what's best for your business.

[00:23:46] Cindy: Yeah. I'm also... what I am going to do is for my network of fractional fundraisers, next spring or summer, I might see if I can leverage that to do something bigger with prospective fractional fundraisers. I'm not sure, but all in all, I'm noodling. And yeah, I have to say, if it costs... if I could get the cost around $5,000 it could be good, but it has to still be big enough. And I just don't... There's just not that many conferences that...

[00:24:27] Jess: My goodness, we could have a whole separate conversation around this. This made me feel so much better. I'll send it to you later. Rachel Rogers just did this kind of carousel post on Instagram all about the realities of being a conference host and how frustrating it is to provide a 5-star experience. And yet, you have all these people that say they want this thing, and then they don't buy the ticket. They don't sponsor the thing. And you're like... It's kind of like, what do you want?

[00:24:46] It made me feel better because... of the conference host who's been trying to decide... it's hard to make it a win for everyone: sponsors, exhibitors, speakers, attendees. I am not willing to sacrifice my own well-being and finances so that I can produce an event.

[00:25:14] Cindy: Yeah

[00:25:14] Jess: And it's something I'm thinking a lot about for the future. So when you talk about, "Is it worth it?" it's not just a... if you have a 200-person event versus a 500-person event... "Oh, double it." No, it's actually 10 times it, as far as expenses and effort goes. And so it's... it's hard on the other side too.

[00:25:35] Cindy: Totally. The thing with One Cause and Raise, like they did have limited space. The thing with Icon that really gets me is they have... like in Toronto... and I feel like when we were exhibiting, we did Confessions, Exhibit a couple years ago. Where was that? New Orleans. They have space. There's zero marginal cost for them to add exhibitors. Every new exhibitor is pure profit because I'm paying for the carpet. I'm paying for the electricity. I'm paying for the moving of all the things. It does not cost them a thing to add more exhibitors. No. So why can they not look at doing some sort of sliding scale based on business revenue? Because they don't want to. Yeah. They have never had any incentive to do...

[00:26:28] Jess: We could talk about this all day. I hope people listening are still with us. I don't know what will make it change because people continue to give their money and time to these things. It blows my mind how few are as thoughtful about purchasing decisions as you and I, and willing to make sacrifices and step back for the benefit of the long...

[00:26:41] Cindy: I'm definitely feeling FOMO about going to Seattle for Icon next year, right? I'm not going, and I feel the FOMO. What am I going to miss? Who am I going to miss seeing? Or even storytelling...

[00:27:01] Jess: I got a text this morning. Someone said, "I still have a hotel room on hold. Do you want it?" And I was like...

[00:27:05] Cindy: Not until they pay their speakers. Yeah. Another great conference I made new friends at Raise, and with one of them, who I won't say their name just because I haven't asked for permission, but they were like, "Yeah, I really need to rethink this. Storytelling is a lovely conference."

[00:27:26] Jess: For me, it is my ideal audience.

[00:27:27] Cindy: I was like, "Come on, guys. I have the money for you. You're at the top of my list." Yeah. And I just can't. And it's... there's...

[00:27:37] Jess: The speakers who are getting paid, I'm like, "What is it going to take for you to say no so others can...?" I know that...

[00:27:47] Cindy: They will. It's, and this is it, it's a decision. And honestly, I also feel like there is some risk for us even talking about this because I would like to work with Nonprofit Storytelling Conference. I would like to work with some of the other conferences, and I don't know if... I don't think they're ever going to hear this, but if they do, are they going to be like, "Oh no, Cindy's in our... what's... like 'the list?'"

[00:28:12] Jess: Make your time out, please. I get blacklisted.

[00:28:15] Cindy: I feel like I might get blacklisted from AFP Global. I don't think they actually know who I am or care...

[00:28:21] Jess: Is it impacting your business?

[00:28:22] Cindy: No. But speaking out feels like it could lead to that, and I'm still gonna speak out.

[00:28:30] Jess: I don't know. On a list of things to worry about, that is like 1 billion and two for me.

[00:28:37] Cindy: That's why I will shout it out again. When I posted that on LinkedIn, One Cause reached out and they were like, "We want to hear your feedback, like we want to work with small businesses." So again, it's a choice. They have the opportunity. People not taking action just don't think it's important.

[00:28:59] Jess: They don't think it's important. And it just makes me really... like I... I don't know how to make it happen. I absolutely do not have the solution, but I am committed to figuring this out. I was talking to someone yesterday about Raise More Together and how I really want to bring that to life. But I'm also terrified of losing a ton of money that I am not in a position to just lose I was saying how I was dreaming out loud saying my dream is not to have any tech partners not because they're bad or I like want to be Switzerland and not commit to any of them, but like they have enough conferences.

[00:29:37] My dream is to have a space where small businesses can feature their services and work because those are who nonprofits want to work with. I get asked for referrals all the time, and they're not in...

[00:29:50] Cindy: Competition with tech because they're not close.

[00:29:53] Jess: No, there's no...

[00:29:54] Cindy: There's no space.

[00:29:55] Jess: There's a world in which consultants, small businesses, they're not familiar with this type of marketing, so they are scared to make this investment.

[00:30:05] Cindy: Oh yeah. Cause it doesn't always pay off. There's some payoff in terms of being noticed, raising awareness, but as a small business, that's not enough. My marketing dollars have to go to things that have a shorter-term ROI. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I spoke to the Icon organizers last year in Toronto, which is where I live. I said to them, "I have a strong network of local consultants and small businesses." I said, "Can we book a big booth space and divide it up amongst us? And would you subsidize each small business that was run by, like, a BIPOC founder?"

[00:30:33] So the idea would be, A, it would be reduced already because we were sharing a bigger space. That brings the cost down. And subsidize because... to address regular barriers to participation. And I was like, I will coordinate, set up all the things. I wanted to do it. Toronto has a sort of like famous, like, spot called Graffiti Alley. And I wanted to do like a Graffiti Alley-themed thing. And some people loved the idea, but when it came down to asking for the subsidy, I was ghosted. People stopped replying to my emails.

[00:31:03] I'm not doing it if there's not representation. If we don't remove barriers to participate, then we're not going to have representation. And so I dropped it. Anyways, I don't think we need more conferences. But organizers need to do better. I'm optimistic. I appreciate the team at One Cause.

[00:31:43] Jess: Maybe do some sort of blog or post or something where you talk about what small businesses want as a conference participant that works for small businesses.

[00:31:51] Cindy: I'm hoping we can work together for Raise next year and test some things. I don't know. They don't know. We need people willing to test it.

[00:32:04] Jess: If it works, and we build that ROI for small businesses, and they start making more money, there's proof it's worth the investment, but we have to try it and lower the barriers to participate. That's my... she's on the quest, people. Yeah, on the quest.

[00:32:22] This all started because we wanted to debrief this conversation. Pulling you guys in is always super helpful as people are thinking about their own businesses. And we always want to be transparent about outside-the-box ways of marketing our business and getting in front of new people. I hope this is helpful. If you have questions or want to contribute, shoot us a note or comment on the LinkedIn posts. The more people that weigh in, the more conference organizers see it's all of us. That's really helpful.

[00:32:52] Cindy: If you're like... if Cindy can figure out a way to make this an easier investment and you want in, let me know. I will push to test some things and figure things out. If there are willing conference organizers, it helps my case if people are like, "We'll give it a try with you." I would never expect anyone to pay as much as I paid. If you want to look at options, please, please, please reach out to me. And I'm going to start like a list of people who I can come to to explore this if it happens.

[00:33:30] Jess: Cool. Thanks for being transparent. Until the next one

[00:33:34] Cindy: If there's any topics you want us to talk about around, like, how... what we do in our business, please, please, please let us know, and we'll see you next time.