"People don't go into nonprofit [business] because they're gonna make a lot of money. They do it because they are so passionate about it. That's how you can connect with them on a deep human level." - Erin Brinns

In today’s podcast, we’re chatting with Erin Binns about how she aces the customer service department. Erin of The Client Collective previously worked in the hotel industry and during her hotelier days, she learned how to treat customers as royalty. She learned how to form human connections, allowing her  to generate more leads for her business. Her client management approach means less marketing and more ideal clients!

Highlights:

1. Basic referral networks bring a lot more to your business than you think of so don’t underestimate the power of word of mouth.

2. Form human connections - Simple gestures such as greeting them on their birthdays or giving them gifts out of nowhere can keep your clients coming back or making meaningful referrals

3. Always remember, offboarding is just as important as onboarding so don’t hesitate sending that thank you note.

Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

Andaz of Park Hyatt

Connect with Erin:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erin-binns-7a69611/

• Email: hello@erinbrinns.com

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erinbinns/

• Facebook: https://business.facebook.com/Binnsy/

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jess: I'm so excited to announce that the next Make It Happen Conference is coming to town on October 25th to a computer screen near you. And this one is an especially special conference because I am partnering with my partner in crime, Cindy Wagman and her company, Cindy Wagman Coaching. I can't wait to do this with you.

[00:00:23] Cindy: I'm so excited. Mostly because your virtual conferences are fire like, the energy the people like, it just feels so alive and generous and informative and like, I mean, one day you have to do this in person. I actually met yesterday. I met someone in real life when I met online through your conference and like, the community that you're building of nonprofit health, uh, consultants, uh, for this conference make it happen, which for those of you who haven't attended in the past, it is so, so good. And justice creates an amazing experience. And I think the people who show up are just so incredibly caring of each other in this community.

[00:01:12] And. And this, you have a theme for this one like.

[00:01:17] Jess: I do. I know. 

[00:01:17] Cindy: Tell me about it. 

[00:01:19] Jess: Yeah, so this was born out of one of our monthly meetup calls where over the summer people were feeling that summer drag and really, really concerned about how to generate leads. And this conference draws nonprofit coaches and consultants that do everything from one to many services and group programs to just one on one consulting project.

[00:01:40] And everyone across the board was like, How do I get new leads? How do I find new people to work with? And so I decided, let's go deep on this one topic. So this conference on, again, October 25th, is going to be all about lead generation. Cindy, you on a preview, preview us to what you're gonna be sharing about?

[00:02:00] Cindy: Well, I, yeah, I mean, lead gen.

[00:02:04] Jess: It was something. 

[00:02:07] Cindy: I will, I will step onto my pedestal for a minute and talk about, like, I've tried lots of different marketing. I love a lot of it. I love playing with all of it, but I think sometimes we get lured into this idea of like the shiny object or marketing thing that's going to work wonders.

[00:02:28] And the reality in my experience in working with a lot of other consultants is that it's like the basic referrals networks that actually bring in a lot of your business. And there is a process behind that. So we're gonna go into the process and you're gonna hear from my clients, the people I work with to help them build their lead base.

[00:02:51] But you're also gonna get all the other new best ideas. I mean, Jess, I know one of the things for you is Pinterest, you've been like killing it there. So you're gonna hear all the different ways that you can generate leads and really build your business. So that's thriving.

[00:03:11] Jess: Definitely. So the speaker lineup is fire. It's diverse. It is a lot of amazing women presenters. I can't wait for you to see them. Tickets go on sale October 4th and you can get more information about the October 25th. Make it Happen Conference at the makeithappenconference.com. See you there. 

[00:03:32] Cindy: We will see you there.

[00:03:34] Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman. 

[00:03:38] Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations. 

[00:03:46] Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've found a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

[00:03:54] Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six-figure mark by pulling back the curtain. 

[00:04:05] Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it. 

[00:04:26] Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

[00:04:46] Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're gonna empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

[00:05:02] Jess: You ready? Let's go. 

[00:05:06] Hey, Jess. 

[00:05:07] Jess: Hi, Cindy. 

[00:05:08] Cindy: Hey listeners, welcome back to the podcast. Today, we have a really fantastic conversation that every single person I know who's a consultant in any sector needs to listen to. We've invited our guest, Erin Binns from The Client Collective to talk about how to retain, how to manage client relationships to grow your business.

[00:05:35] Jess: This conversation is pure gold. I think we say that several times in the episode because not only does Erin break down step by step, the process of not just discovering ,onboarding, executing, maintaining relationships with clients, but she gives real life examples of things that she uses in her business to spark any ideas for those of us who might really struggle with coming up with how to actually do this in practice.

[00:06:04] Cindy: Yeah. And they're so simple, but what's most important is they're thoughtful. I think you'll really pick that up in Erin's interview, is that she's really paying attention to what her clients are saying and what they care about and what they need so that she can be the person to solve their problems and make them feel cared for. And that can result not only in business retention, but significant growth. 

[00:06:33] Jess: So if you are a nonprofit coach consultant, looking to really make your clients feel seen, so they continue to come back to you for their business and project needs again and again and again, enjoy this very special episode with the one and only Erin.

[00:06:50] Hey Erin, and welcome to the podcast. 

[00:06:52] Erin: Thank you for having me. 

[00:06:55] Cindy: We're so excited to have this conversation with you today because Jess and I are huge fans of, you know, managing your client relationships well, and that's kind of what we're gonna talk about, client retention and referrals and all the things.

[00:07:11] But when it comes down to it, it's a very simple starting point, which is you know, treating your clients well. So I'd love to hear from you how you niched into this really, I think, really unique space of learning how to do that. 

[00:07:29] Erin: Yeah. I mean for, you know, not to give, Whole backstory of everything. But I did spend 17 years working in luxury hotel sales. So if anybody has stayed in a hotel, a nice hotel, or a Holiday Inn or whatever it might be, you know that it's all about the client. It doesn't actually matter about everything else, the, the operations of the hotel behind it, it's like, All that matters is when you walk through those front doors, is that like you feel welcomed, you feel greeted.

[00:08:00] You know, if you're a repeat client, you're like, Oh, I have your room number for you. Like I know you like that. Like it's like all being in front of the client first, before them having to ask for towels to be delivered. You know, like the towels are already there, like as an example. But so really, you know, I have always been really connected with people.

[00:08:19] I really love being connected with people, like, I like making great experiences for people and all that kind of stuff. So how it all happened was I, you know, was there, and then when I had my son, I was like, Well, I, hey, I can't work, you know, 10, 12 hours a day anymore. I don't, will never see him. So that's when I left the hotel business.

[00:08:40] And I really loved the hotel business. It wasn't because I didn't like it, but I always knew there was something else for me to do. I wanted to be an entrepreneur, so I went into real estate and then for six years I did that. And then, The whole time I met networking events where I met you, Cindy, it's like I would talk to entrepreneurs and I would like, Well, what do you do for your clients?

[00:08:59] And they're like, What do you mean? Like they would look at me with these blank stares and I was like, Well, how do you like develop your relationships with them? Or how do you, you know, have your onboarding process with it? And literally blank stares. And I was like, Okay, there's something here. Right? So how can we, how can I show these female entrepreneurs that it doesn't have to be so hard to find their next client if they actually develop their relationships as we go. 

[00:09:24] And part of it is, is that, I always say this, I'm like talking about client retention doesn't occur to be sexy. Right? But what is sexy is, you know, taking Fridays off cuz you don't have to work And having clients come to you when you don't have to worry about things in money, the revenue that's coming in because you've developed.

[00:09:43] These relationships with people. So that's kind of where the whole thing came. And then, then I was like, I'm gonna make a business out of talking about client this, and then it, then it's actually all come together. So it's actually really great. And I could literally talk about this till the cows came home.

[00:09:58] So, you know, we couldn't be here for a while if you really wanted to. 

[00:10:02] Jess: Well, we're so excited and let's, let's talk till those cows come home. Um, I think for everyone listening a step by step or a process would be really helpful to kind of imagine how this could work in practice. Right? And so if you're willing, I would be so curious.

[00:10:20] As to what steps one through three or five or however many you have in your process, what does that look like? How can, if you could tell us through a story or give us an example of what that execution looks like, because it's one thing to talk about it, it's another thing to do it especially to, I think what you talk about often, um, is the fact that when it doesn't necessarily result in money in your bank account right away can be the easiest thing to set to the side.

[00:10:49] Erin: For sure. Well, the first thing I will say on that is, if you're a new consultant or a coach or something like, you also don't need all the processes and all the stuff. What you need to do is go out and find clients. You don't, I didn't have a website when I first started. I didn't have all that. So like, don't take this where you have to have steps one through 10 perfect in order to take an action forward. I wanna be like super clear on that. But what I will say is that, okay, so say, your processes are a, they have to be able to find you and you have to be very clear on what your message is. So it's like, who do you help? What's their problem? And how through what process can they find you, like get to that end result of the sale?

[00:11:35] So just being very clear on who your market is and your target market. Then let's say you're onboarding, like there's a couple different ways of people like, Well, what is onboarding? I don't know. Some people don't know, really know what that means, right? So it's like somebody says to you, they find you on Instagram or your email, you, Hey, I think I'd like to work with you, or we could use your services.

[00:11:57] Great. What's the next process? Process, I guess very. Who says it? Whichever way. So it. And everybody's system is gonna be different. Some people do discovery calls, some people don't. Some people send like a, what's the word? Um, proposal, All of these things. So it's that you listen to your clients and see what they need, and you also do what works best for you.

[00:12:23] So if it's that you already have a pre-booked schedule and you can book your time slots in here for the call, do that. I actually like to have kind of control over my schedule. So I actually don't usually use a lot of online booking tools for my schedule. That's just me of how I like to do it. And so then it's like really how you lay out the process of how it is to work with you.

[00:12:46] And I think it's really important to say, like even back in real estate, if I was gonna do something with a buyer, like, Okay, this is how it's gonna go. We're gonna have this meeting and this is how, And you take them step by step by step by step through the process, and then when they go to sign the contract, you're like, Oh, remember when we talked about this?

[00:13:05] It's really important to have that initial foundation of a call because you are setting the client up for success. If that makes sense. Like you're, that you are telling them all the things that are gonna occur cuz they don't know that those things are gonna pop up to be when they work with you or what they're working on.

[00:13:26] Cindy: I wanna keep going into like, what, it's almost like phases of the relationship. 

[00:13:30] Erin: Yes. Okay. 

[00:13:31] Cindy: But before we move into the next phase and we'll get practical with that, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, cuz we, I know you for things like retention and when you have a client, um, like they've already booked with you, but I'd love to hear from you how we can stand out in that discovery process where they haven't yet like signed the contract and they're maybe thinking of working with you or someone else. Cuz we all know, like in our sector, you know, oftentimes they need three quotes enable to like, in order to get approval on high level contracts.

[00:14:09] So, do you have any ideas on how we can make that discovery process feel really different or stand out from others?So that we're even setting them up to expect a better experience or a different experience right from the start? 

[00:14:26] Erin: Totally. Well, if once they've booked the call, like let's say they booked a call with you, I would always send, I know this is just minor, but say, Send a reminder like in 24 hours, I cannot wait for you. This is what we're gonna talk about and give them like a heads up and this is what I find is really helpful for people. So maybe they can answer a few questions for you before the call. So you could also send them like a questionnaire of like, and get the information so that you as the consultant, are better prepared for the call and you cantailor your call to their needs.

[00:15:01] The other thing that people do on discovery calls is sell themselves, and that is not the approach you wanna do. What you wanna do is ask them more questions. I know that some people might know this, but like maybe if you're listening to this podcast, you might hear it from a different voice or a different way, or you're ready to hear it, but they've come, either they've come to you or somebody's referred you, or maybe you even reached out, but they said yes to meeting you. They're already invested in you a little bit, maybe not a ton, but there's obviously an interest so you don't have to oversell yourself, if that makes sense. Then on the call, I would set them up powerfully on the call to be like, Okay, this is how the call is.

[00:15:44] I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a ton of questions and how I can help you, and then you always bring it back to asking them the question is, if. I could solve this problem for you, What would that mean to your organization? And you get them present to, Oh, we could have more money here, we could have more donors, da da, all these things.

[00:16:09] And the other question is you ask them, When do you want that buy? Well, we want it now. Okay, great. Let's work together. You know.

[00:16:17] Cindy: I I love that. Yeah. 

[00:16:18] Erin: Yeah. If you leave it open ended, Great. Thanks. Let me know how you, I'll follow up with you in a week. Okay, great. No, they're, they're gone. You gotta get them present to their needs and their pain points on the call and how you can obviously, you're not gonna give them everything of how you're gonna solve it, but you're like, Oh, yeah, I, This happened with three other clients of mine.

[00:16:40] This is what we got, Blah, blah, blah, blah. 

[00:16:42] Cindy: Yeah, and I just wanna underscore what you said because I know I take it for granted that like most of a discovery call is listening and asking questions, but I don't think that's how most people do it. And so when you do that, you are the person you're talking to, your potential client is feeling seen and heard. , and that's part of like when we've, we were talking offline a few minutes ago of like decision fatigue and people feeling like they just need someone to come in and like wrap their arms around and solve their problems. Yeah. Like sometimes you just need to be heard.

[00:17:22] And I think that can be a big differentiator in that process where people feel like, Oh, They're listening, they're trying to understand. They're not pitching, they're not, you know, convincing me. They're just like, actually, they, they care and they're, they're here for me. 

[00:17:40] Erin: Yeah. I would say, most people say that when they, when I work with them, they like, Oh, I just feel like you hear me.

[00:17:45] Like, you know, and they, and using words like, Impact, When do you want it? Um, what would that mean for your organization? Like that type of thing is like when somebody comes to work with me, like, okay, what would it mean for your business if X or Y? And getting them so present to it is pretty awesome. And then you could even wrap it into like, Whatever organization they have, those people that they're impacting, what impact will it have on the community or these single mothers or this dog rescue, whatever it might be.

[00:18:19] What is that? Cuz the, those people are super passionate about what they're doing. People don't go into nonprofit because they're gonna make a lot of, They feel like they're maybe not gonna make a lot of money or any, like they do it because they are so passionate about it. So that's how you can connect with them on a deep human level.

[00:18:36] Because what has happened in the past even two years, is that people are so disconnected from themselves, then therefore they're not connected to their clients because they're just operating at a deficit. And so it, the way in which you can stand out is, really it, it might take a lot out of you and that's okay.

[00:18:56] You can go decompress after the call, but putting that in front of them and being connected to them is going to connect you to their business, which is gonna connect to the community, and it's gonna connect to you getting the contract. 

[00:19:11] Jess: Before we move on to the next steps, I'm curious if you have any additional questions or maybe experience with discovery calls. And I don't wanna keep this all about discovery calls, but it is an important part of the processabout barriers outside or objections outside of like money and time. So for example, our nonprofit coaches and consultants community has barriers around money, of course time, of course. But they also have barriers around approval and decision making, specifically around boards of directors or leadership or, um, sometimes there's a budget process.

[00:19:52] So I'm just curious if you have any, those two questions you just mentioned to always make sure you include on the call. We're so fantastic. I'm just curious if you have any other, um, examples or questions. Knowing that that is a common, um, challenge for our specific audience serving nonprofit clients?

[00:20:11] Erin: For sure. Well, one in the before the discovery call, if you send them out sort of a questionnaire, you can add that in there. What's the pr, what's the. Uh, what's the word process? 

[00:20:22] Cindy: I always ask What's your approval process? 

[00:20:24] Erin: Approval process. That's the word I say. The approval process. 

[00:20:26] Cindy: And how long does it take? Exactly. Because in our sector could take months. 

[00:20:31] Erin: Right, Exactly. And then speaking to them on the discovery call about what information do you need? Or you could ask this, what information is typically missing from a consultant that delays the process? I just thought of that right now for you. 

[00:20:51] Cindy: Love it. Smart. Smart. Yeah.

[00:20:55] Erin: So that, like, what's missing? So that it's like you can provide that so that it doesn't, you know, maybe they forget one page. I don't know. Whatever information they need. Um. And say, I'm actually very committed to this process, moving through quicker than normally because that's how I've been able to develop it in working with other clients.

[00:21:17] You know, because oftentimes I was just having this call with my, um, clients is like, what roadblocks are in your business where it's hard for people to get to. It could just be a small tweak or something small. It doesn't mean revamping your whole process, but there could be one little like, oh, every time I go to the website, I have to click on three different links to get to the one link that I need.

[00:21:39] Okay. Like, let's change that link if that, Like that's an analogy, but that's how you can approach your call on our, on the call, the discovery call. The other thing is discovery calls don't have to last as long as you think they do. 

[00:21:51] Cindy: Ooh, okay. I want you to talk more about that, but before you do, I just wanna share like, one of the, I always ask in my discovery calls, What's your approval process? What's your budget? Right? We're so afraid in our sector to talk money that we are like, Oh, don't wanna No, just out ask outright what's your budget? Um, and who's responsible for the decision and what are your timelines? But talk to me about how long a discovery call should be. 

[00:22:20] Erin: Depends. Some people don't. In my, in the coaching world, some people don't even do them. They just book them all through, whether it's Instagram or whatever. Like they do it through voice notes, What do you want? And so it doesn't, Some people love them. They go on for an hour. I did have one a while ago that went on for so long. I was like, Erin, what are you, I wasn't even taking my own advice like, but sometimes you know, you get down the rabbit hole and I was like, I need to bring this back to, anyways, I'd say like no more than 30 minutes. Like it can be, it depends on how big the project is obviously. If, so, it might be, who knows, like they might want it to be longer or that it's okay if it goes a little bit longer because you're like in it's ha you feel like it's happening.

[00:23:01] But it's also good to know their budget because beforehand maybe you're like, I don't even want this piece of business if it's not big enough. Which is another thing about your pricing that we can talk about. But, you know.

[00:23:13] Cindy: This is, I wanna jump in. I know Jess has a question too, but, um, because I get a lot of questions about should you post your rates, where should you post your rates?

[00:23:23] Right? And I'd love to hear what you say about that before.

[00:23:26] Erin: Honestly, I think it's whatever you wanna do. I don't really post my rates, but I, or I, I shouldn't say that like in the gen, but like if I'm launching a course, I'll put the, I'll put it in the course sometimes. Just depends on the course. It really, I think it's like, I don't think it's being sneaky by any means. And I think cuz it's your business, you can charge whatever you want, but, um, I think you need to like hold firm on like what you, listen, this might not be, Maybe they have a budget. It's not quite what you would want, but it could be a really great partnership and they could lead to a lot of referrals for other organizations.

[00:24:04] So it's always like, But if you also, sometimes you're meeting on the call and you're like, Nope, I do, No matter how much money I charge these people, I am not working with them. So, you know what I'm saying? Like the charging of the rates is, I think it's really up to the person how you feel comfortable. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

[00:24:24] I dunno if that's what you wanna hear but.

[00:24:26] Jess: I mean, I think it's, you know, you can't be everything to all people. I'm someone that's a quick decision maker. So yeah, I like a good price tag before I waste 30 minutes on someone and they tell me it's a million dollars to work with them. Um, but I know other people are more interested in the process. So yeah, to each a zone to get us back on track after the discovery call. So your excellence is really about providing this kind of memorable experience and how are youproviding high touch points? Um, really standing out, providing, um, really excellent execution. And so now that we've determined or decided about the discovery call, which I love. You actually said you don't need to have one if you don't because I'm someone that gets super drained from one on one call. So having that permission to not actually do them is gold to me. Um, I'm curious what your next step in your process is and how you show up for clients once the contract is signed and you begin working together.

[00:25:33] Erin: For sure. Well, if I look at it like, let's say have a group coaching program,even one on one too. So they say, Okay, I'm ready to go. Send me the information. I have it all, all of the information already predone. Like I have a template on an email of sending it out. Um, then I have a contract in the system and send it all that way.

[00:25:54] But then also what I do is like, let's say our call isn't for a few weeks, like our next. Group call isn't for the next few weeks. I always touch base with them, you know, within a certain, a couple of times I'm, so it's also, but like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be working with you cuz you really are like, it's like this person is just invested with you.

[00:26:14] You're like, you're so pumped to like help their business and then essentially you're helping them, right? So I love that part. And then usually it depends, like if it, like, I love giving gifts, but I give it, like I sometimes have like a stack of like generic ones that can work. But I also then, like for birthdays, I do things that are differently for like more for that person.

[00:26:39] Like I kind of have like a few that I pick from and whichever one kind of goes, or like something might come to me like, oh, actually. But it goes back to like listening to people. So if you're on the discovery call and they're like, Oh my gosh, like they're talking about something and you're like, or like, let's say they're, oh, there's no natural light in here of our office or what have you. Like what would brighten up their office? You send them like, as an onboarding, like a beautiful indoor plant and says like, I can't wait to see your business grow. I do that one a lot all the time. Like, there's like this company that delivers plants, like it's really cool, I can send it to youbut like little things like that, or like for the holidays too, it's like, or any of those, like birthday. Just sending something that's a, doesn't have your logo on it. I'm not a big fan of like getting all this stuff and has your logo all over it. Cause people don't use it. It's just not. Oh, you know, like I..

[00:27:34] Jess: You would see me cheering in the background, right?

[00:27:37] If one more person sends me a mug with their logo on it, I'm just telling you right now, it goes straight to in the donate bin. 

[00:27:44] Erin: Exactly. It's fine if they send you a mug, like with a saying on it that maybe they say all the time, but they don't need to have their logo on it. Or you could put their logo on the, if you've desperate to put your logo on it, stick it on the bottom so like nobody can see.

[00:27:57] But I can remember going to these trade show when I worked in the hotel business and I would go to these trade shows. We went to this one trade show every year where it wasto work with all the entertainment, all the bands who were coming, right? So you got all these people, the amount of. CH keys and crap that was there.

[00:28:11] And then us, like we, I worked for Park Hyatt hotels and so like we would be there in our black suits and we would literally have like nothing to give them, or like something like, I don't remember what, or it was like a nice pen but didn't have our logo on it or something. And I was just like always like, Well we don't do we don't do, And it really is like nobody uses that.

[00:28:27] It's list garbage in, garbage out. It's going in the landfill, don't bother. So yeah. And I would rather support a small business. You could send them their favorite book and write in the book. Sue, I'm so excited to work with you and your team. Here's a copy for everybody on your team. Like go like a really uplifting book.

[00:28:47] It doesn't even have to be anything about nonprofit or it could, but something that, and you, and it's all in like the wrapping of it. Like it, it could be really beautifully done, not just like I ordered them on Amazon and I sent them to their office. See the difference? Like even though you send something sos, Was that the question about onboarding?

[00:29:05] I can't remember. Next one. Yeah, so in that, and then I also say, this is what you can expect from me. Here, I'll send you this. Once the payment goes through, I will send you X and then. Doing what you say you're gonna do, and I will send it to you by Thursday at three o'clock, and then you send it by Thursday at three o'clock.

[00:29:26] Jess: Okay. We're back for another fun round of rapid fire questions. Erin, are you ready? 

[00:29:32] Erin: I'm ready.

[00:29:33] Jess: All right. What is the best hotel you've ever visited and why? 

[00:29:38] Erin: Oh, my favorite hotel. I have two. Well, the um, Andaz Amsterdam. It's amazingand also the Andaz Liverpool. Andaz is a brand of Hyatt. It's like, Oh, so good. It's so good. I'm always biased to Hyatt. Always. I mean, I grew up there and, uh, it's a really awesome brand. 

[00:29:58] Jess: What is it that either of those hotels do that make it just excellent? 

[00:30:04] Erin: Well, they give you complimentary wine and complimentary coffee. No kidding, but it, they're very, they're smaller hotels. And so how they, their brand is that, you know, somebody who goes to a park Hyatt, wears an Armani suit, but somebody goes to an Andaz, wears like an Armani jacket and jeans, like, they're just, it's a bit more casual, but it's also the high touchpointCustomer service, which I like cuz it's not too stuffy, but it's also like everything is perfect. Like everything is like, the food is amazing. The drinks are amazing. The, like, the vibe of the hotel is like always in the best location. It's just amazing. 

[00:30:42] Jess: Awesome. Next question, do you have a morning routine and if so, what isn't?

[00:30:47] Erin: Mm-hmm. I typically wake up before the kids. It hasn't been happening lately because of the summer, but anyways, typically always and then I have a like, kind of like a menu of things I choose from. So like maybe that day is like, I just need to have coffee by myself. Other days it's journaling, it's meditation, it's reading.

[00:31:05] I always read mostlysome kind of book that like personal development book but I would say that those types of things are kind of on the menu of things I do. I don't work out first thing right in the morning. Like I do not do that.

[00:31:20] Jess: Hard line, hard line. And last question, who is your favorite follow on social media?

[00:31:27] Erin: Oh, geez. Oh, who's my favorite follow? Oh my gosh. I don't even rapid fire. It's not, this is not fire. Like I don't have to, like, I just went through, I'm deleting a whole bunch of them, so I was like, Oh, what is that? Hmm. I'd say like, I don't, I can't think of anything right off the top of my head, but I'd like to follow people who are uplifting, who are funny, like a, like some really good comedians, um, and small businesses, like people who promote small businesses and Canadian made stuff.

[00:32:03] Um, But yeah, I like following a lot of human design stuff these days. I'm kind of into that. There's one called like hd my human design. Yeah. I'm like, not like, it's like I'm really into it, but I find it, um, very interesting and how I operate. And I don't know if you guys have done your human design before.

[00:32:21] Jess: It's yours. 

[00:32:22] Erin: Mine's, I'm a reflector. Yeah. 

[00:32:25] Jess: That's one of the rare ones. 

[00:32:26] Erin: Yes, I know. Cuz every time there's a post it's manifesting. It's all like reflectors always at the back. I always have to get the back of them. Like, it's like when you're shortest in school, you're always in the front. Like, it's like, But yeah, it's um, I'm really into like that kind of stuff.

[00:32:41] Like just learning how I operate and how I communicate and how people work with me and like, I'm a big picture person and I have tons of ideas for your business that's like a so reflector kind of. 

[00:32:52] Jess: Awesome. Thanks for playing Erin. 

[00:32:55] Erin: Thank you.

[00:32:59] Cindy: I wanna ask about after that onboarding process, um, how you maintain relationships throughout the year. But before we do, Jess and I, we're both wondering what systems you use to manage client relationships because we're systems junkies too. 

[00:33:14] Erin: Me too. Me too. Um, well I use Dubsado for all of my contracts and I use the questionnaire in Dubsado over there. So I do that. Um, and then I use, like, I don't do the billing through Dubsado, I just send it like the square invoice. Um, And then for, But I put all their information, I put their home address, I put everything that is all in there. And then for like, people are gonna say like, Oh, this is, doesn't sound like actually super important, but it is.

[00:33:46] I actually get my client's birthdays every year. I say like, What's your actual birthday? I don't need to know the year, but just what is it? Because people. Are being like, if you recognize somebody on their birthday, and I'm not sending, I'm not saying send a text message, you could even just send a card, a handwritten card.

[00:34:05] It is like so lovely. Like, oh my gosh, they remembered my birthday. And like, and it goes back to like, When they're talking, I was listening, I don't know where I heard this, but like as a kid, like birthdays are more important than like holidays, like Christmas or Hanukkah or whatever it is. Like because it's theirs.

[00:34:23] It's nobody else's but theirs. Unless they share their birthday. Like in my family, like there's so many people who share birthdays, siblings and stuff, so Right. So, but it's like, it's um, And so you took the time out of your day to write them a car. So how, What I do for this, I actually just in my calendar, I color code birthdays and I put all the birthdays in as a recurrence.

[00:34:47] So it happens every year. And at the beginning of the month, I write out all my birthday cards and put them out. So if they have a birthday on August 31st, well they're gonna get a card on August 7th. Like that's just how like at least they're getting one. Like it doesn't have to be perfect, but it can just be a card.

[00:35:02] And if they were a client from this year and spent money with you this year, then I send a gift. I don't send a gift every year, but I send it like in that moment. 

[00:35:12] Cindy: Okay. So that reminded me, I'm kind of skipping ahead, but that reminded me. I don't know why it reminded me. But not just your clients, but your referral network and Absolutely.

[00:35:23] Collaborators and people and. I guess this is sort of part of the same next, next question, which is like, ongoing relationship management. We talked about birthdays. How do we make sure that the people who have spent money with us before are spending money with us or have sent us paying clients? How do we make sure that we're top of mind for them so that they, that keeps happening? For sure. 

[00:35:46] Erin: Well, one thing is that, you know, in, in the world of real estate, they always teach you like, you know, , it takes people like 33 times to be touched, be touched, be connected with, um, in order to buy from you. Right? So I, I took my. World of, of real estate and took my world of luxury hotel sales and combined it.

[00:36:10] So things that you can do, you wanna think of like, how many times can I connect with somebody where it doesn't seem like I'm, like I'm selling to them, Right? There can be times actually where you actually reach out to somebody to be like, And actually, hey, I have this new system or program. Maybe you wanna, but like, that's okay, but if you're only connecting with them because you're selling to them, that's when the breakdown happens.

[00:36:33] You can connect with them throughout the year, like Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for your business. Send them something or like even just reach out to them. You can even just send them an email, but a personal email, not a group, you know, from your MailChimp or whatever. Um, Oh, I use Flow Desk for my email system, not mail channel.

[00:36:54] Um, So there's that. Okay. Another great time to connect with people is the anniversary of when they signed the contract. So that, let's say they signed the contract last September. Hey, it's been one year since we've worked together. I know we're not, but just checking in, see how the processes, see how this is going, is there, I have this new program that I'm launching. Maybe you'd wanna be a part of it or. Maybe things have changed in your business. How can I help with you? The anniversary is a really, is a missed opportunity, a huge one that people don't do the holidays. Thanksgiving season change, new school year, right?

[00:37:32] The spring time is always like new ener. Think of new energy and new and what value can you bring them in that time? Hey, You know, people, you know, I know people have email, their email systems and connecting with them, but it is important to like send out your monthly newsletter of like, of being, of value, not just selling people.

[00:37:53] Erin: Yeah. What I think is so brilliant, and I love all of those very specific examples, um, is it's reminding me of that my Angelo's quote, People will, How does it go? Like people never forget how you make them feel. And it seems like such a through line that you are taking that into consideration from discovery call, to onboarding, to execution, to then.

[00:38:22] Um, you know, retaining or client management. I'm just curious from your business journey, how, like what's the ROI of that? You know, what has that resulted in? I'm curious if, you know, in an annual year, you know, 80% of your business comes from clients you've had before or is it something totally off and were mistaken?

[00:38:45] I'm just really curious about what that's actually amounted to.. 

[00:38:47] For sure. that's never from this year, but a lot of my clients are repeat clients. Um, but, and they come from people referring me like in networks that I know. But so this is, this is a good example of when I was in real estate. And I was doing like all of that hard sales, like door knocking and cold calling and like, I wanted to like literally die.

[00:39:12] I was like, this is not how I wanna operate my business. And so, and guys, like, I was like struggling. I had sold one house, like un, like bills were not being made pay like they were piling up. Like it was stressful of being new in the business, but I was doing. All the big hitters had all, that's how they all built their business in a very masculine, like, hard hitting way.

[00:39:33] And I had this moment and I was like, I was really like, it was pretty, pretty vul, not vul, but I was like, Screw this. But I don't know if I can swear. Like, I was literally like, like fuck this. I am not doing this anymore. I am operating my business on off my network of people I know I am master building relationships.

[00:39:52] I am. I am not cold calling people. Like it just, and the next, I went from doing $800,000 of sales in one year to 8 million the next year. Cuz I literally told my brother like, You do you, I'm doing this and like I can't. And I basically, all the people, except for one couple I knew from my past experiences and my past, you know, employment and stuff like that.

[00:40:20] The other one I met randomly at an open house. Um, but anyways, and they ended up doing like 3 million in sales the following year, which was great. But it's like that staying in touch, staying connected. It could used to be like, you know what, actually it was just thinking about you today, like a simple text message.

[00:40:36] You, you've crossed my mind. I don't know what it is. I just thought I'd say, Hi, how are you? Especially in this world of like what has gone on in the past two years, simply connecting to people like on a very human to human connection is going to set you apart from everybody else.

[00:40:53] Jess: I love that and we've had conversations with people on the podcast and offline where we're so worried about not bothering the people we already know for business and like we, people think you have to cold call or you think that you know, your network doesn't want to get involved in helping you grow your business. And we keep hearing that that's absolutely not true and the people who've been successful have done it their way and they start with the people they know. So I love, love. Lovely. You said that.

[00:41:27] The other thing. Yeah, go ahead. You go ahead. Go ahead. Go for it.

[00:41:31] Erin: Okay. I was also gonna say about the referrals is something that you can do for your business is like pull your business from last year. Or even like last year or lifetime sales and pull all the business and the amount of business and pull. Who referred you? Because, you know, I was working with like, for example, a mortgage broker a while ago.

[00:41:57] And I said, Where's all your business coming from? I was like, Oh, it's coming like 70% direct, 30%. I'm like, No. She pulled all of her numbers and 70% of her business was coming from other real estate agents, and 30% was only coming from her own network. So she had it flip flopped. So your actions then are gonna change. Right. So you're gonna put more emphasis in one area or how you develop with people.

[00:42:21] Jess: Yeah, and I've talked to my sister also runs a business by my sister. I always say like, every f few months, send those referral like the, your, your other practitioners who send you referrals. Send my gift card for Starbucks or local cafe or something.

[00:42:37] Just connect with them. Keep top of mind. But I wanna actually dive deeper into referrals. Yes. Because I think we are conditioned to think that people just make referrals, but I think we have to be a little bit more specific about asking for referrals, and I think that makes people very uncomfortable. So I'd love to hear from you about how you might ask for referrals, either from your network or from your existing and past clients.

[00:43:04] Erin: Yeah. I a line, not a line that I use, but something that's actually, it feels actually very genuine is that I say to people, Listen, obviously, you know, like my business is based on referrals and you came to me as a referral and I say to people, I love working with you and your vibe, your energy of who, who else in your network is like you.

[00:43:25] Cuz I only wanna work with people who are similar to you. And then they're like, Oh, thank you. Like, I just, you know, And then the, so they a, they take the compliment and it's also genuine. Like, I don't say that to people who, I don't want referrals from those types of people. Right. And then the other thing I say to people is like, where in your network, like let's say you said like on your kid's soccer team or your entrepreneurial group or your parent council at school, is there anybody in those groups that you can think of that have a bus, a business like yours that would, you know, so you give people places to think, Oh yeah, the, so well next time I'm at the.

[00:44:05] You know, field, I'm gonna talk to Sue cuz she does, you know, like you have to give people a place to go as opposed to, do you know if anybody who would wanna work with me, like it's just too broad. Yeah, you have to give them context. 

[00:44:19] Jess: So one of the things I'm sitting here thinking because I'm a natural connector as well, like you are not gonna have a conversation with me where I'm not referring me too something.

[00:44:28] And I for you, I got somebody for you. Yes. And that's like the next restaurant, A new hair dresser or like where I just bought, you know, the best cleaning, you know, tools for my dinner or whatever. But I don't think that that comes naturally to other people to expand their mind. And same goes with like the outreach tactic we were just talking about, and I'm just curious if you have any tips or tricks for, or daily practices maybe around maintaining consistent outreach?

[00:45:03] Because it's, it, it is that, you know, it's a numbers game, it's a touchpoint game. And so I'm not sure if you have a process or if. Maybe you listen to a podcast every day. You hear an episode, you send it to three people. Like something kind of tactical that people that this, um, skill set doesn't come naturally to, but they really do wanna be top of mind to more people consistently.

[00:45:25] Is there just any practice or things that you would advise them to do? 

[00:45:29] Erin: Well, there's two ways of that. So, one, there is this reach out, but there's also this daily thought I and daily. Um, Mantras, like people come to me. I don't have to find new. People are constantly coming to me in Instagram or referrals or however you want.

[00:45:48] I think it's really important for you to set up how do you want people to come to you? Do you want them to come through, through your podcast that you have? Do you want them to come here? Do you want them to come through referrals? It just takes, it gives yourself a little bit more power than I gotta go out and find some new people.

[00:46:06] Right. So there's, there's that side of it. And then you also have to take action as well because you can't just be like, Hmm, everybody come to me. And like, Right. And then the other part is that I often connect with people. I do a lot of, like, I was thinking about you today and from a genuine place of this, or I also send them like, Oh my gosh, I saw this post.

[00:46:27] I thought you would like it. Like, and from a Oh, I do it a lot for gifts to be like, Oh my God, this would be really cool for your business if you sent this to your clients or this, that, I do that a lot. I just did it the, I just did it last night about this, like, this stamp that this woman carves out is very cool.

[00:46:43] Like if you had a logo. Anyways. Um, I also, that also goes out to shouting out more small businesses as well, as opposed to just, you know, buying stuff from Amazon. Um, but I would say that it depends on which kind of business you are in, um, as to how many times you wanna reach out to people. But if you've worked with people in the past, in your, then always start with them.

[00:47:12] Yeah. And always start with, in people who you kind of like feel comfortable with and then just have that conversation, even if it might feel a little uncomfortable, be like, Listen, you could even call it out and be like, This is really uncomfortable for me to ask, but I have some new, I have some openings and I would love to work with some other organizations.

[00:47:32] Can you think of any that are in your industry or your sector or, um, any of your other organ, like they, I'm assuming that nonprofit organizations attend conferences and meet other people. Like they all network just like the rest of us. But you can call it out to be like, I don't really like to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyways cuz I've got some big goals to, and I really wanna help these types of people cause I'm really good at X.

[00:47:57] So you can kind of start there and then if you get a conversation going back and forth and you like, strike while the iron's hot and do two more. You know what I mean? Like, don't let that drop. And also if they say no, don't be like, Okay, well then I just can't do anymore. Like you gotta set your goal of like, you're gonna do three a day, didn't do three a day.

[00:48:15] Honor your schedule and honor what you say you're gonna do. Because where the upset comes from is not that you're not doing it, is that you said you're gonna do it and then you didn't do it. 

[00:48:27] Cindy: Yes. Oh my goodness. Erin, I, we could talk for days and days and I, I, I wanna be aware of the time because we only have so much time with you. Um, and I feel like to wrap up, I'd love to hear from you about what we can do when we're off boarding a client to maybe get them to say yes to working with us again in the future. And then we will, uh, wrap up the conversation. 

[00:48:55] Erin: For sure. I think offboarding is just as important as onboarding. Um, it's sending a thank you note to them. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. You don't need to do offboarding gifts or anything like that. Um, you can ask for testimonial, but oftentimes like collect like testimonials as we go, like screenshot them as we go along. And if you're gonna ask for a testimonial for somebody, don't always wait till the end of the off boarding.

[00:49:23] Get a testimonial when they're really happy. Oh, Cindy, this is amazing. Oh my gosh. Oh, great. Could you actually put that in a testimonial? I'll send you three questions and do it and do it right then and there. Don't wait till the very end because it will never, like, they're just gonna forget it. Like if they've done with you, like they're like, they've moved on.

[00:49:41] Um, but I think really like having a wrap up call with them to be, to show them, like, be prepared before and write down all the things that they've accomplished and get them present to it and have them say it. Oh, great. Why don't you tell me the top three things that you loved about this or that like, so that like they say it, not just like, oh, like again, not you selling them that they did this because of you.

[00:50:11] Jess: I love this. There's nothing but gold nuggets in this episode. We are so grateful to you, Erin, for spending your time with us today. If people are interested in learning more about you, your work, working with you, what's the best way for folks to get in touch? 

[00:50:27] Erin: For sure. Um, I am on Instagram at Erin Binns. My website is erinbinns.com and if you wanna send me an email, it's hello@erinbinns.com there.

[00:50:38] Jess: Beautiful. Thank you, Erin.

[00:50:40] Erin: Thank you for having me. It's been amazing.

[00:50:46] Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways. 

[00:50:57] Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I so we can re-post you.

[00:50:51] Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit culture consultant. 

[00:51:09] Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcast so that we can continue to grow and reach new listeners. 

[00:51:56] Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

[00:51:22] Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions. 

[00:51:30] Cindy: See you next time.