Feelings or Facts? with Jess and Cindy
If I believe that I am in control, then I'm more likely to take action to do the things that will get me the outcomes I want - Cindy Wagman
Feelings or Facts? with Jess and Cindy
Why do feelings sometimes mislead us in business? Cindy and Jess dive into how to keep emotions in check and focus on data, especially as we head toward 2025. Jess shares insights from her record-breaking year and explains why it’s essential to surround yourself with positive influences who push you forward. They also tackle the importance of tracking key metrics like conversion rates, lead generation, and sales calls—because knowing your numbers beats going by "gut feeling" every time! This episode offers a wealth of practical advice on setting up systems to measure success and making intentional decisions based on solid facts.
Plus, Cindy and Jess discuss the power of networking and asking for business directly. Instead of chasing shiny distractions like social media or podcasts, they encourage you to focus on face-to-face connections, especially if you're looking to wrap up the year with new clients. Jess breaks down her recent experience at a local nonprofit conference, highlighting how in-person conversations can accelerate the client-finding process. Check out this episode if you're ready to realign with your goals, take purposeful action, and enter 2025 stronger than ever!
Key Takeaways:
5 Key Takeaways:
Feelings Aren't Facts – Just because something feels hard doesn’t mean it’s reflected in your actual results. Jess emphasizes the importance of separating emotions from business data to get a clear, accurate view of success.
Track Your Metrics – Knowing your numbers is crucial. From lead generation to conversion rates, Cindy and Jess highlight the importance of tracking these figures so you can make informed decisions and adjust as needed.
Focus on Networking Over Social Media – While social media has its place, the fastest path to new clients often comes through personal connections and networking, especially if time is tight for year-end goals.
Ask for Business Directly – Don’t be afraid to reach out and let your network know you’re available for work. Jess explains that simply asking can open doors, so prioritize these genuine conversations over passive marketing.
Cut Distractions, Execute Your Plan – Set aside time-wasting activities and focus on your core tasks. Cindy and Jess remind listeners to limit consumption of new content and instead put existing knowledge into action.
Timestamp summary:
[00:01:31] Setting Up for 2025 – Cindy and Jess introduce the episode, emphasizing the importance of preparing for 2025 and how to approach the end of the year strategically.
[00:02:25] Listen Now, Act Later – Cindy encourages listeners to let the ideas percolate even if they don’t have time to act immediately, emphasizing protecting one’s peace.
[00:03:40] Feelings vs. Facts – Jess explains why “feelings aren’t facts” and how business owners can get stuck in emotions that don’t align with their actual results.
[00:05:35] Surround Yourself with Positivity – They discuss the impact of negative influences on mindset and the importance of choosing uplifting content and connections.
[00:06:46] Locus of Control – Jess introduces the concept of locus of control, explaining how a belief in personal control over outcomes can drive actions that lead to success.
[00:09:16] Review Your Business Data – Cindy shares an exercise from her coach DL Sharon that involves tracking key business metrics to understand what’s working.
[00:10:30] Understanding Warm Leads – Jess explains the importance of focusing on warm leads rather than cold outreach for quicker client acquisition.
[00:12:39] Conversion Events – Cindy talks about “conversion events,” explaining that each business should have measurable activities like webinars or calls that lead to client conversions.
[00:15:02] Airtable for Tracking – Cindy shares her recent obsession with Airtable as a tool to track business development and conversion rates effectively.
[00:16:10] Short-Term Client Goals – Jess suggests practical steps for gaining new clients quickly, like reaching out directly to potential connections instead of spending time on social media.
[00:17:03] The Power of In-Person Networking – Cindy shares her experience of attending a nonprofit conference, underscoring the effectiveness of meeting clients face-to-face.
[00:19:11] Avoiding Linear Client Growth – Jess explains that client acquisition is often non-linear and requires a blend of patience and focused effort to build relationships.
[00:20:42] Avoid Rushing Sales Calls – Jess highlights the importance of not rushing sales conversations and instead taking time to understand the client’s needs.
[00:22:58] Execution Over Learning – Cindy encourages listeners to stop consuming new content and focus on executing what they already know, especially if time or finances are tight.
[00:26:37] Ask for Business – As they wrap up, Cindy and Jess stress the importance of being proactive and asking for business from one’s network, especially as the year-end approaches.
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/
Resources
Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/
Dielle Charon Coaching: https://diellecharon.com/
Diary of a CEO Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/TheDiaryOfACEO
Locus of Control Theory
Transcript:
[00:01:31] what up? Hello. Hey Jess. Hello and we are nearing the end ish. We're not quite there but we're like Q4 of 2024 and so Jess and I thought we would take a minute to talk a little bit about what you should be looking at from 2024 moving into 2025. Is that fair Jess? Fair set up. Yeah, fair setup.
[00:02:01] Perfect. I also want to say that if Your plate is super full and you don't have time to think about this until later on, feel free to move on to the next podcast episode and come back at a time that works for you. Yes. But listen to it now so you can prep yourself to really I'm not gonna ever say don't listen to this episode.
[00:02:25] It's a good episode. It's gonna be great. You do need some time and space to like, do the work, I think. But, also, Listen to it, let it, I always love to let things percolate and play in the back of my mind before I, sit down and do the call, or do the work and look at the numbers, so this is a good opportunity to come back to this episode.
[00:02:54] Don't skip it, come back to it. That's what I just said, come back. You said skip it. Skip it and come back. Listen and come back. Come back. Listen and come back. I don't know if you're like me and you just will get overwhelmed. I'm just telling you to do the best thing for your mental health and love Cindy.
[00:03:17] She's a promo to the promo of the promo Queens. let's get to the episode. Let's talk about what we wanted to talk about. Do you boo? Yeah. One thing I've been saying a lot these days is protect your peace. So you do what you got to do to protect your peace. And if you need to not listen and come back, that's fair.
[00:03:40] But this is a good and important episode, I think. So Jess has been saying, you've heard her say it on the podcast. and I think it's so true is your feelings are not facts. Facts are not your feelings. Jess. Tell us why that's coming up for you. Yeah. listen, 2024 has been strange and it's coming off of a couple of years that have been beyond strange.
[00:04:12] And I feel like entrepreneurship is the most epic game of mental gymnastics. I think humans can go through and I think that there is a lot of external content that we absorb that. Put us into our feelings and our heads that aren't fact checked against reality and I catch myself doing this all the time.
[00:04:42] I've said this on the podcast before. if you were to ask me in my feelings, 2024 has felt hard, has felt. Felt like I'm walking through mud. It's just, and yet, if I do the numbers I'm projected to do by December 31st, I will have increased my revenue by 60%. So you're like, that's what I mean, where facts are not feelings.
[00:05:09] And I, I think really what I want to talk about is how do you figure those things out? Yes. But I really think what you need to, What I want you to think about is to your point about protecting your peace, what content are you consuming? Who are you surrounding yourself with? Because the people that are like, this is so hard.
[00:05:35] The economy is so bad. da Is like not helping and, we're all adults, right? And so you have to be able to say yes and no to what you let in. And I guess I'm just, a little it's fed up the right word with the complaining. Yeah, same. I've always, and I've tried to dissect this and teach it because sometimes I will saying in the sense that 2024 is probably my best year ever.
[00:06:15] and I'm seeing a lot of success for the, for my clients, like they're having amazing years. And and if I could teach people anything about how to be successful in your business, it's to believe that you will be successful. Like I don't know how to, you obviously can coach that and all that kind of stuff, but it feels too simple to be true, but it is.
[00:06:46] So true. And there's actually quite a bit of research around it. But what it comes down to is this idea of like locus of control, which means. We have, there's a spectrum of belief around what we think controls the outcomes in our lives and in our businesses, and there's an external locus of control, which is like the belief that my, the outside world will have a significant impact on what's happening to me and my business.
[00:07:19] And then there's the, Other side, which is the internal locus of control, which is I am in control. My behaviors and actions are going to affect the results of my business and my life. And the research shows that they're both right. And what I mean is, if I believe that my everything is more chance and affected by the outside world, I don't take the actions.
[00:07:50] To influence the outcomes and therefore my business and my life is subject to like significant influence from the external world. But if I believe that I am in control, then I'm more likely to take the action to do the things that will get me the outcomes I want and it is Simple, and it's the hardest thing for people to do, and to your point, surround yourself with the people who are going to uplift you, give you energy to keep going instead of the people who are always looking for excuses.
[00:08:32] Yeah, Yeah. I think we both like just don't have a lot of patience for that. so let's talk about some things, how you can uncover your facts, not feelings and some actions. like some this or that actions that might lead to this or that results. Love that. can I share? So I literally like an hour before we record.
[00:08:56] We recorded or started recording this. So I'm in a program this year, with a coach named D. L. Sharon and she, we just did this really interesting exercise where she asked everyone in the group to review their past quarter. And she asked questions like, how much money have you made? how did you make that money?
[00:09:16] How were you generating leads during that time? how many leads did you book into clients, do you have like webinars or sales calls? what are the things that you did? How many did you convert? what was your main mindset at the time? What was your main feeling and what was your main identity?
[00:09:36] And it's so interesting because I think a lot of people have a hard time even finding some of those numbers. yeah. Like how many sales calls do you have? How many did you close? what are your sales generating activities? I can't remember. It might have been someone else saying this or it could have been DL.
[00:09:58] Which is like, how many, like what are you doing to get people on sales calls? Like how are you generating leads? And I actually had a call with, one of my fractional fundraisers was struggling And she, I asked her to do a bit of an audit, like what have you tried to do so far to find clients and she was trying really hard, but all of the things you were trying were like a long term to very cold lead activities.
[00:10:30] Yeah. And I was like. You skipped the warm part, like you skipped the easy stuff. So let's go back. But I think unless you can actually look at and, report back on what are you doing? What are the results and how does that influence your business? you don't have the facts. Do you have, for example, I don't really do sales calls.
[00:10:57] I avoid them to my best ability. And so for example, someone like me, I have a different measure, which is basically, I know that for every thousand email subscribers, I can roughly estimate about a hundred thousand dollars in revenue from acquiring that number of subscribers. So that's like a little bit different, but I'm curious on the sales calls just cause I don't do them.
[00:11:20] I don't measure them. you want to get one new client that pays you, let's say 5, 000 retainer, which is like what your fractional fundraisers can shoot for, right? Like, how many sales calls do you expect to have? Is it 10? Is it 4? Is it 2? Yeah. okay, before I even answer that, let's just call them conversion.
[00:11:41] events or activities, right? So like for you a conversion event might be hosting the summit or it might be like an offer through email or you have some funnels set up. So what are those conversion events and how, much are you converting? So when I do a webinar, I think I usually, I can, I do track this, but like I have, when I have my launches, I have very significant tracking systems to look at like how many, so for example, I just pulled it up really quickly.
[00:12:13] That's the thing. And so you should be able to see. So my last launch, which was like a mini launch, I had 251 people sign up for my open house and I had seven conversions, which, what's as a percentage, I can't actually don't have that pre calculated, but. those are the things that you should be tracking, whatever that closing or conversion activity is.
[00:12:41] what first sales calls. So the way I teach the sales process is fairly Like I encourage people, especially if they're early in their business to have discovery calls or like networking calls that are not necessarily sales calls. And so the way I teach business development is nonlinear because I think everyone thinks I just need to have this many calls.
[00:13:15] If you're starting out, you might need to talk to five people to get one qualified sales colleague, right? And so are you tracking the six calls that you've had or are you tracking that one sales call? And so I think people get I think we need to differentiate. I think they often see that they've done six sales calls, but actually they've really only done that one.
[00:13:43] and I do think that people need to look at, and I, it's like fundraising, right? Like you have to cultivate your network. You have to build those relationships. There's going to be referrals and recommendations and introductions. And once you get a quick. qualified person on a call. the way DL teaches, she's 80 to 100 percent closing.
[00:14:11] I do find I get from my work, like if I do sales calls during a launch and things like that, I will often de qualify someone on the call, if that makes sense. So I want to start tracking that. That's the other thing is like where to track and how to track. we were talking about this before.
[00:14:33] I am newly obsessed with Airtable. And so as I'm thinking about all of these things, I'm actually trying to build them out in, in my Airtable. So now I'm like, oh, I have an Airtable hub for my one on one business development is the sales pipeline for one on one coaching clients. And I will start to build in tracking closing rates and like for qualified leads and then how many I might de qualify.
[00:15:02] Like I can build a system to be able to look at a dashboard and see that, but you have to know what to ask. and that's, But now that I know, I'm like, Ooh, I'm, telling you, I'm so obsessed with air table. it's like a religion. Oh my gosh. I'm like proselytizing here. Okay. So I'm like putting myself in the shoes of someone who is like on a walk with their dog and they're listening to this and they're like, facts, not feelings.
[00:15:32] Okay. I've heard you, but I've really had a, a less than desirable year. We've got a couple more months left. what are some. Do this not that things that you would recommend like being straight. It's October 16th. We've got I'm not doing the math 75 ish days until the new year. what would you say to someone who is really trying to either close some work before the end of the year, or at least close some contracts for people to start in 2025?
[00:16:10] Okay. this is literally what I've been saying. Teaching people. so obvious the goal is new clients, right? let's be clear. The goal is new clients. So you need to focus on short term activities that will get you the clients, which to me, hands down, unless you have an email list that is proven to buy or a program that group program that provenly sold, you need to be more like connecting with your network, and you need to be asking for business.
[00:16:41] and again And can I just say, really quick, just because I took my own advice and got my ass out of my Office chair and went and mingled with the people in person last week. There is nothing faster from this process than like meeting people in person. And I know it takes effort. I know it takes energy.
[00:17:03] I was like laid out afterwards, but I. It was, actually a really strange experience. it was my local like grant maker conference. and what was very funny is I actually have almost no local. Nonprofit work. Like none of my clients are here. I don't know people that do this work here and. It was a weird experience because I have been building an audience online for seven, almost eight years now.
[00:17:36] And so people were like recognizing me and Oh, I work for here. I'm on your email list or I see you on LinkedIn. And it was like this weird experience because I should know these people. Like you're famous. No, I'm not meaning that. I'm just meaning like it was. In some ways, I feel like I've made it more difficult on myself.
[00:17:55] Yeah, they're like I'm not friends with these people who live in driving distance to me. but what was Affirming is that whether I sat next to them at lunch and they gave me their card or I got to hear in depth about some of their challenges within their work and I'm either able to make connections or put myself in, service to them or whatever.
[00:18:23] It goes so much faster when you can meet up in person. You can't compare. Next best thing is one on one online. And you just can't compare though. It's also a room of like 400 nonprofits. And so for folks who are like, I need to be showing up on LinkedIn, or I need to be speaking on podcasts, or I need to be on stages.
[00:18:44] It's no, you should actually, if you want to get clients quickly, stop doing all of those things with maybe one exception, which is LinkedIn. But even with LinkedIn, you don't need to do a lot. You just honestly, none of those things are the fast pass to getting clients. Yeah, none of them save your time, save your energy because they also for so many people feel cumbersome.
[00:19:11] And so stop doing those things. Honestly, if you're feeling the financial crunch, stop doing those things. Focus on relationships. Recognize that it's not linear. I really can't emphasize this enough. I feel like people really, here's what happens when we feel really desperate to get clients. We try to speed up the process of finding clients and it undermines our success and actually finding the clients.
[00:19:43] And so have a little patience. No, that it's not. Super linear. You do have to cast a bit of a wide net, but also like focus on the people, and so that's fun. And you can enjoy your business development work. and then the other thing that I see come up a lot is that. We don't bring our potential.
[00:20:09] Once we're on a call with someone or are in front of an ideal client that's qualified, we rush, to the conclusion because we're like, Oh my God, I can help you. This is such a good fit, but we haven't taken them along for them to believe that. And, That is a big thing I'm seeing these days is okay, I'll get you a proposal and you haven't even properly got their buy in on what the problem we're solving is.
[00:20:43] And or, and then the proposal comes back and it's misaligned to what they need. I've seen that a number of times. like really, I call it the inception method, the movie. I think about it all the time. I've been there early. When is it? Early two thousands. Anyways. No, I saw that in the movie theater.
[00:21:04] It was like 2010, 2011. Okay, yeah. for those of you who don't know the movie Inception, it's with Leonardo DiCaprio, Elliot Page, and what's the other guy? Anyways, I like him, but I can't remember his name. And the idea is they plant ideas in people's minds. So that they think it's their own idea. It's this idea of the inception.
[00:21:34] What's the inception of that thought? And it's an artificial one. Someone placed it in your brain. I think that by slowing down those business development conversations and making explicit your assumptions and their assumptions, You can get them to come to those conclusions that you are the right person to work with and the right, you are solving the right problem.
[00:22:04] That to me is like the number one way to get those clients, but it takes that slowing down. It takes getting them to say things out loud that you are thinking. And so you have to guide them. I don't know if that makes sense. I feel like, But that to me is like the number one thing, that I'm seeing right now is people feeling desperate.
[00:22:27] So they're rushing through and they're jumping to conclusions and they're not getting the buy in, and then they're not closing. Yeah, I want to actually go like a deep, a level deeper on tactical, which is I think one of the best things that if you are in this need a client now, the best thing you can do is be really disciplined and stop consuming so much content.
[00:22:58] good one. Turn the phone off and put your head down and just do the work. Yeah. follow up with the people. Reach out, set the calls, do whatever the thing is that, is your conversion event, to Cindy's point, but, I just see, a lot of, to what you were saying at the beginning of the conversation is, these non moneymaking activities, and Listen, I am so super guilty of, getting distracted by my phone, to the point where I've had to do this.
[00:23:36] I literally have to tell my husband, I'm turning my phone off for the day. If the school calls or whatever, you're, tap, you're it. because, and then what I'll do, and this is really scary. I'll find myself reaching for my phone and it's turned off. Yeah. And so it's just to, it's showing me my addiction, my like habitual addiction, like Pavlov's theory at its finest.
[00:24:02] And, and it's like, how much time are you actually wasting, by being distracted because you don't need to learn anything else right now. You just need to execute. You don't need to learn. I iota more. Yeah, you just need to do hundred percent. The ideas are not out there waiting for you to discover them.
[00:24:24] You have the tools, you have the things, you just need to do it and tune out everything else. Especially I call it the shoulds. Like everyone's telling you, wait, we're doing this. We're like, you should do this. You should do that. But like truly forget about the shiny objects. Forget about, you should have this, you should have that.
[00:24:42] You need this, you need that. No, you need business. You need clients who are paying you and the any business thought leader, if you ask them, how do I make money? In the short term, even if they're selling you, even if it's like an Amy Porterfield, who's like selling you a course, I guarantee you, if you're like, Amy, I need to pay my mortgage tomorrow.
[00:25:05] How do I find clients? She's not going to say take three months to build a course. She's going to say one on one clients, get on the phone, meet with people, get the clients. So everything else is a distraction. And I was listening to an interesting podcast. I think it was Diary of a CEO, where one of the guests was talking about like that distraction is actually built into our brains now.
[00:25:32] And it's a habit and she or he, I think it was a, she was saying, like you can put your phone away, but you're, it takes time and you're naturally going to start looking for other distractions. That aren't your phone because we're so used to that like quick, what's up, that it actually is something you have to train yourself to, overcome.
[00:25:57] So I thought that was so interesting and slightly terrifying. It is terrifying and it does take practice, but you all can do it. Oh yeah. If I can do it, you can do it, trust. I'm easily distracted. Yeah. and I think just to add, I think just one last thing as we wrap up as far as a tactical thing, one of the most impressive things I see other nonprofit consultants who from the outside looking in seem to be doing really well and seem to be super successful are people who ask for business.
[00:26:37] So it's people who A, announce they have a spot open, B, reach out to their network and say I'm looking for this, that type of client or I do this type of work. Does anyone know of anyone? So it's, like a combination of vulnerability, right? putting yourself out there, it's a combination of networking.
[00:27:00] and it's a combination of doing just good old fashioned sales. I would recommend doing that over, posting on social media or, pitching yourself to podcasts or whatever the thing is that is, spending two hours on TikTok. I don't know. Whatever it is that is distracting you. Oh, that's just me.
[00:27:23] Sorry. I, people don't know what they don't know. And, I think that there's some people that like, really do this super well. And if you're like, I'm actually quite okay right now, but you want to start planting those seeds for 2025, let's say you're similar to my work and a lot of your contracts are going to be ending December 31st, To Cindy's point, you can't rush it.
[00:27:51] So start planting those seeds, start those conversations now so that come 2025, like you're rocking and rolling and you're not in this kind of extreme swing. Yeah. To go back to the start, like that's what contributes to your feelings, not facts. Yeah, it's like that unsettledness, like unsure, like these feelings are really valued, but that doesn't mean that they're factual and like how the economy is or whatever, or like whatever the, thing is.
[00:28:27] Oh my God. So good. Okay. One last final point. Cause we're like out of time, but to that point, ask for business, but don't say you can do everything because oh God, no, But I'm sure you see this too. I see this all the time. People are like, here are 10 things I can do for your organization.
[00:28:46] You are creating overwhelm and extra work for the people who are just like, huh? I just need something done. So pick three. Things that you can do to serve your clients that will also serve your needs financially and focus on that. please don't have 10. Honestly, sometimes I feel like 15 things like a laundry list of here all the different things I can do that is not helpful.
[00:29:10] And that will, I'm going to go, I'm going to go a level deeper. say one, like you really do want name association. And I think again, some of the most successful nonprofit consultants I see out there, I hear their name. I think of the one thing that they do and it's so clear and helpful. And I know it's challenging and scary, but It's so helpful. It's so helpful and you can change. The only reason I say three is because I see so many people early on in their consulting journey and they are still trying to figure out what the most helpful thing is that they can do for organizations but If you pick one thing, it doesn't mean you're married to that thing for the rest of your life.
[00:29:54] You can divorce it. You can change your mind. You can change your mind. get the clients the fastest way possible, which is clarity around who you serve, how you do it, what's that one thing you can do. Have those conversations, drop everything else and, obviously not client work, but all the business development, all the distractions, all the marketing and everything, and then look at your numbers, evaluate all of the things that can help you identify.
[00:30:30] What you've done in the results you've gotten from them so that you can evaluate and see what you need to do differently. Boom. Period. All right. We're so out of time. but. Go for it. And if you want an accountability partner, I actually really do get a lot of joy in this. send me an email just at out in the boon stop me and say, I'm doing this by Friday.
[00:30:57] I will check in with you on Friday to see if you get it done. I do this for my clients. I will do it for you too, because no time to be wasted this last couple months of the year. You got this. We'll see you next time.