The Power of Diversifying Income with Holly Rustick
“I could have stopped and walked away and said, you know what, it didn't work. And I had this support and it didn't happen. And that's about me. But I kept going. It was like, no, I still believe in this. And I had to get myself to that energy to then get to where I am now. “- Holly Rustick
The Power of Diversifying Income with Holly Rustick
Are you curious to know how to grow your business with diversified income streams and turn your services into passive income? Then you should listen to this episode featuring Holly Rustick, who runs a grant writing and funding business with a multi-pronged model. Holly explains how she transitioned from an agency doing grant writing services for nonprofits to a business owner who makes passive income.
Highlights:
Holly's experience with diversifying her streams of income
Tips on how to grow your email list, gain social media followers, and show up as a thought leader in your field.
How to let go of what no longer serves your business and focus on what truly matters
How to reframe pain points and focus on problem-solving in your sales process
The value of tracking your time, money, and joy to make informed decisions for your business growth
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/
Connect with Holly Rustick:
Linkedin: https://gu.linkedin.com/in/holly-rustick-0765b817
Grant Writing & Funding: https://grantwritingandfunding.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hollyrustick/
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/grantwriting
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/
The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me
Trasncript:
00:00:00 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
00:00:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. Where two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.
00:00:12 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.
00:00:20 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
00:00:30 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
00:00:52 Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
00:01:11 Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
00:01:28 Jess: You ready? Let's go.
00:01:32 Okay. Do you tell, Holly, what is it like being currently in the messy middle, and how do you foresee or what are the steps you foresee taking to find your way to clear pastures?
00:01:46 Holly: Oh, that's such a good question, Jess. Thank you so much for that because it's like a roller coaster and I'm not really fond of roller coasters, but have your moments on a roller coaster was kind of fun even if you're not fond of them or you're proud of yourself once you get off that roller coaster. And it kind of feels like that, so it's exhilarating and there's some fear there. And then you have to look at that fear, and then you have to look at everything, and it's a little overwhelming and knowing how to ground yourself in that overwhelm. And I believe that as an entrepreneur, in my experience, there's a lot of mess. It's like very rarely is it squeaky clean. And when you look at other people that it looks squeaky clean, it's usually not underneath. So that's been my experience. So, yeah. I think it's just a part of it, too. You're kind of like, okay, this is what I signed up for. And this is part of why I love it, too, because it's so creative in the mess, right?
00:02:47 Jess: I love that so much. I agree wholeheartedly. It's kind of like when you set up to clean your garage or something and you're like, I know this is going to be a ton of work and it's going to be a disaster in the middle, but then it happens. And you're like… it's kind of like that.
00:03:01 Holly: Yeah.
00:03:03 Jess: For everyone who's listening in today on Confessions with Jess and Cindy, we have the one, the only, the high energy, Holly Rustick from Grant Writing and Funding, who runs a really interesting business with a really multipronged model. And we're excited to get into it. Maybe we should just start there, Holly.
00:03:26 Holly: Sure.
00:03:27 Jess: How do you get paid?
00:03:29 Holly: Well, through various means. Really, I've converted my business. I started off basically as an agency doing services, doing grant writing for nonprofits, right? And that's what I've been doing for almost 20 years. So it was easy to kind of transition over. And even though that's a whole story, but starting off and getting clients, and that was kind of what I was doing, and it made sense. And then learning the business side was like, okay, but now, I'm making money. And I really had a shift back in 2018 to be like, I need to make passive income and I need to do this differently because I don't like working dollar per hour. Even though, necessarily, I wasn't paying, charging hourly, it still felt like I only get paid for the work that I do and then it's limited. You know what I mean? It's the night. So I was like, there has to be another way. And people are talking about online courses, and my friend was like, killing it on Etsy, right? [In all places], like killing it. And she still, she's like, made over a million dollars and selling, like, printables, right? You know what I mean? Like, amazing here from Guam, right? So I was like, you're my hero. Tell me I need to learn. So she's like, make a course. She's like, people are asking you how to write grants all the time, right? It's like, yeah, just make a course.
00:04:38 Holly: So we had, this is really funny, and I know I'm kind of going sideways here, but just bear with me because this is one of the best things that's moved my company forward, believe it or not. We would have a little mastermind. Her and I would say, every single month, you have to get the one thing that's going to drive your business done. And if you don't do it, you owe $100, right? So for the first month we started, it's like the 31st of the month, and we both see each other in the grocery store in the sugar aisle. We're shopping because we're not done, right? Clearly, we're not done. And it's going to be a late night. It was like, T minus four minutes, my course is done. And it was messy. It wasn't perfect, but we're like, as long as you get something done, right?
00:05:19 Holly: And I remember the first course I made was I put it on Udemy and started making money there. It was like $12 a course, which is ridiculous, but it was a way to prove that I had a market and I sold 700 like that, right? And I was like, dang, people want this. So needless to say, I started integrating products like courses into my business and then I've developed now and I have my book that makes money and I also have my group mentorship, my grant professional mentorship group coaching program that brings in money. I have podcast sponsors, I have other types of the nonprofit consulting conference. So I have very diverse streams of income in my business.
00:05:57 Jess: Okay, amazing. And, right, because I feel like you have a business model that so many consultants are like, I want that. I want that passive income, one to many scalable. I want to go, live that life. And then it's like they have 200 people on their email list. So I think I just want to dive into the nitty gritty of basically what allows you to run a business like that, which is an audience. And so would you break down for us what ways over the years you have grown an email list, gained social media followers, shown up as a thought leader in this space? Because that is, in my experience, the work.
00:06:45 Holly: Yeah, absolutely. And it wasn't overnight. And that's the thing is people always and I love that they're like, I'm just starting a grant writing business or I'm just doing this and I want to have, like I want to do a webinar right away. And I'm always like, you want to write grants though, right? Like that's your business model? And they're like, yeah, but you know, and of course. But I'm like, but you need to set up revenue first. I'm like, call your family and your friends and get some clients, right? I am really big on user community. If you're doing service work, get cash flow and then start playing on the side, right? Because it's not going to be an overnight. It is going to take time. Like I said, I've been doing this for quite a few years and I've done it in this messy way. A lot of people, they have the one thing and that's what they do and they've really been able to grow really quickly. I haven't done it that way. I've kind of grown in more of, like a broad way in a different way than just like a skyrocket way this way.
00:07:40 Holly: So it really depends on your personality too, right? For me, it's like you really have to… I've played and I've been like, what feels good? And I've really tried to tap into my intuition to be like, you know what, if it fails, it fails. I'm just going to throw it out there and see what happens. And that's the way I've built, which might not be the best way for everybody at all. Some people are very like my avatar and it's very clear. That's fantastic. That is really good. But at the same time, you kind of got to learn who that is too, through different things that you create, you know what I mean, and know who you are and who connects that. So one of the ways I started was with my book, and that's because I also write fiction. So writing is my jam. I love it. And someone said, well, and my coach was like, Holly, you got to write a book on grant writing because that's what you do. And I was like, oh, ding, ding, ding. So I was only writing fiction back then that'll help my business.
00:08:33 Holly: And that's been a really good thing to start positioning me in a different space because it's hit number one in like 14 categories on Amazon. It's used in universities across the nation now, you know what I mean? So there's a lot of elevating, a thought leader in that space. It's been a lot of fun through the book. And then that leads people to my course as well. And then starting the podcast, because I started my podcast in 2017, actually. And that was a way because I knew that Guam has a limited population, right? And I needed to export my knowledge somehow. And once again, I needed to do it when I didn't need to be awake. And it couldn't be in person. So it had to be something that was recorded that I could send out. So that was a great way for me to start developing community and trust and being able to see, like, what do people really want, what are the popular episodes, what should I talk about? Maybe I should create a course on that because they're actually listening to that, you know what I mean? So I was able to really test my market and develop community that way. So those were kind of two different streams that helped me develop more of what I want as well and then connecting to that community. And that takes time, in my experience. It just takes time as you grow too, as a person, what you want, right? And then, of course, things happen. Then COVID happened, and I already had my courses online, and I was kind of in a position where I was like, this is good because I'm here right already and I can serve. So there's external things and internal things that we need to look at as entrepreneurs, as, you know, both of you.
00:09:58 Cindy: Well, Jess and I think, can both very much relate to that evolution, let's call it, of a business. I think both of us have that journey. One of the things I see, and I just want to kind of underscore that point of, like, start by getting paid, get your clients, get doing something, and that as you learn them, then you create the scalable things. But as you grow, I see a lot of consultants where they're starting to look at scale or what they want to be known for. So they've got those first clients and they're like, okay, I have money. Now, I need to be the expert in something and then I need to start scaling that. But they often are very fearful of letting go. And I feel like you've done a really good job at learning when to say, okay, that's not actually who I am or what I do anymore. And so let's move on. Let's create something new. Tell us about that journey.
00:11:03 Holly: Oh, that's fun. Yeah. I just recently shut the doors on a lot of my courses because I'm like, I have so much out there and I want to spend more time marketing just to certain containers and those that I've really built up, like I said, that I feel really comfortable and passionate about, right? And it's like that's where I want to spend time. And it is hard when you have so many different products because there could be so many different people that connect with those products and there's different funnels and all the things. The tech detail of that too is just a little overwhelming. So I did, I've been able to pull back a little bit and say, you know what, I'm just going to offer that one as a bonus because it goes well with this course, you know what I mean? And they can only get it as they get this course, right? And you don't have to like, also, I've learned that I don't have to throw anything away that I've created and anything I've created is never a failure, even if it doesn't fail. I can make that as a freebie, make it as a podcast episode. I can make it as a lead gen.
00:12:00 Holly; So even if you believe you're going to build this thing and that's the thing, I think that if you put too much time and pressure on yourself to make something perfect before you even launch it and you spend all this money and everything, and then what if it doesn't do well? What if you really didn't connect? So for me, it's always like the MVPs, like minimal viable, you know what I mean? I'm all about making things imperfect and launching them. I'm all about launching things that aren't even done yet. See if I get people in the door and then it motivates me as we go, week by week. I think that letting things out there and knowing for me, I've created so many mini courses and stuff and I'm like, oh, they're in the archive now, and I'm going to bring those back at some point. Or they're just at least there, right? So nothing's ever lost. You don't need to necessarily market everything you have either, right? It can be there to kind of be teased out or for me, a lot of times, what's really helped is say, I can put this for next quarter or next year. I don't have to feel like, oh, it's going to be on my to do list every single day, because I know I'm really not going to do it, but I want to. Or, oh, no, I don't want to throw it away, put it to the side, but know that it's there intentionally, that you can tap into again, right? That's kind of what's helped me let things go.
00:13:25 Jess: That's really helpful. I know Cindy is actually really good at that, too. You must both be so good with boundaries because Cindy is good at that, too, being like, I want to do it right now, but I can't do it right now. So that's going for Q3. She has a lot saving for Q3, Q4, actually. Watch out, world. One thing that came to mind when you were talking about minimum viable product, is that what it is?
00:13:53 Holly: Yeah.
00:13:55 Jess: Do you self determine that? Because I find that I see people out there that they're like, if I don't sell 100 courses or if I don't sell 100 seats, or whatever the outrageous number is. I was just having a conversation with someone, actually, a couple of hours ago about some product that they want to launch, and I'm like, based on their audience, if you do a little math adding subtraction with your current audience size, I have no understanding of the pathway that you will get there. So where is this number coming up from? I even get it with my nonprofit clients. They'll be like, oh, I was so disappointed in my campaign. And I'm like, well, tell me how many people you sent it to. Just tell me how many donations came through. Because actually you converted that, like above average conversion rates. You just thought you were going to raise a million dollars for no apparent reason. So how are you determining what success of a product is, a course is, a group coaching program is so, that you can double down on it or like you said, put it on the shelf, send it into the ocean or whatever. How do you decide what success looks like for you?
00:15:08 Holly: Well, I love that, and I've learned to have base goals and then happy goals, right? And I think that's, too, because you want to have that dream vision, right? Like, I'm like, vision boards and stuff like that, but at the same time, I'm very practical. I kind of consider myself like a realist optimist, right? It’s kind of like that. Because I was one of those people, Jess, And the other thing, too, is back in the day, and I was working because, like I mentioned, as soon as I put my grant writing course on Udemy, it sold like 700, and I was really excited. And then I was talking to somebody big in the space, and they were like, hey, I'm going to coach with you, and I'm going to charge $1,000 a month and I’ll take 20% of your sales because I think you can make 100,001 in launching. That did not happen. Let me just say, that did not happen. I paid him $1,000 a month for four months, and he helped me get a bigger concept and put it on my website, right? So it was like, okay, let's change this. But we sold four courses. We did not sell the 30 that he was going to, right? We didn't. And he felt so bad and defeated. But it was just like when I walked away with that, this is why I think I talked about mindset and where I come from energy wise, is I think it was a lot of that. I had a lot of fear. I wasn't really believing in it. He was believing in me, but I was confused and you know what I mean? It was like, oh, can this, done? But he thinks it's going to happen. Then I felt like a failure. But the thing is with that course now and I've gone back to him and I've been like, and that was years ago, and I've made multiple six figures from that because… but I didn't stop. I could have stopped and walked away and said, you know what, it didn't work. And I had this support and it didn't happen. And that's about me. And only sold fourr class, all of the things, right? But I kept going. It was like, no, I still believe in this. And I had to get myself to that energy to then get to where I am now. Yeah.
00:17:11 I love that story.
00:17:16 Jess: It's time to play another round of our rapid fire question, this time with Holly. Are you ready to play?
00:17:24 Holly: I think so.
00:17:27 Jess: Okay, first thing in the morning, coffee, tea or…
00:17:31 Holly: Cappuccino.
00:17:33 Jess: Okay, great. You live in Guam. What is the best thing to do on the island?
00:17:41 Holly: It is by far to go for a walk on the beach. Like, love it in the mornings, evenings, the beautiful sunrises and sunsets, you get them both here. So absolutely.
00:17:51 Jess: You mentioned in our episode that in addition to writing your grant writing book, you're also a fiction writer. As an author, what is the best book you've ever read?
00:18:02 Holly: That I've ever read? Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's a hard one. That's a hard one because there's so many good books and I love so many different genres of books. So it's like I do a lot of personal growth books, but my goto books, I'll just give you a genre because that's going to be hard. I know that's going to cop out, but I am into romcom books, like romantic comedies, like hands down, and not necessarily like romance erotica, although that can be fun, too. But more just like, you have the lead protagonist who comes out at the end. She doesn't always end up with somebody, but she has some kind of change and there's a lot of humor in it that always go to, so like Confessions of a Shopaholic, all of the fun things. And there's a lot of English writers, like British writers in that space specifically. So absolutely, that's my goto. That's my jam.
00:18:55 Jess: Cool. Awesome. Thanks for playing.
00:19:01 Cindy: I'm curious, like, as someone who looks at investing in yourself or trying these things or working with people like that, how do you decide, I'm going to give you the story? I won't give you the full story, but Jess and I have just been talking about Facebook ads. And it's like, there are people out there who say they can do this really great thing for your business, but they don't understand our audience. They don't understand charities as customers. And I feel both of us have really struggled with, where does traditional thought leadership and instruction and stuff like that work? Or what have you experienced, where you're like, yes, that was a great investment, or a great partnership, and where has it just been not the best investment?
00:19:55 Holly: Oh, yeah, I've had a lot of those. [I don’t know if you have both]. And you speak to it so well. And that's why Mandy and I put together the nonprofit consulting conference. That's why I have the grant professional mentorship program because our audience, like you said, you hit the nail on the head. It is very different. There's a lot of four, and the one I was working with, different industry, right? So that conversion, and then I worked with somebody else. And even then it was like, oh, yeah, you're going to sell 30 courses like that. I kept hearing this 30 number, right? And that was back in 2019, it was like the 30 number, immediately. And it was like, oh, yeah, that didn't really, but the conversion was great, right? Like, the percent, really high, but it's just like the numbers are a little bit different. And the way you talk with nonprofits, there's a lot of poverty, mentality, martyrdom, a lot of this associated in that world. And the thing is, just because you're a nonprofit consultant then, chances are, you probably came from the nonprofit sector. Chances are, you took that mindset with you, right? Chances are, you're still going, but they can't afford it before you even talk to them.
00:21:02 Holly: How many of my people that work with me, right, my students, all of them, I've given discounts before they even ask, right? Like, coming from that space, right? And it's like, okay, we got to reposition this. For me, it's about educating the nonprofit space, right? But you have to have these really interesting conversations with them about boundaries and about professionalism and the work, and that it's not just going to, because especially as grant writers in my space, it's like nonprofits want to know what's the ROI, right? But I'm like, you wouldn't ask a web developer that necessarily like, what's my ROI and donations then? Because you're redoing my page and there's me, a donation button, right? But you're going to ask me that because it's associated with money. So there's like another layer for grant writers because money is included too. So we have to really understand that the education and how we talk to our clients is very different than in the, for profit world, right? Very different conversations. And it doesn't mean we have to give the discounts and go there. It means we need to step up and start changing the paradigm with education, right?
00:22:06 Jess: And so I'm curious, what do you do in your business to flip that on its head? What changes have you made to your copywriting? Do you have a different sales process than maybe someone selling to you, small business owner? Talk to us about, like, what have you done to remedy that.
00:22:25 Holly: Yeah, I think, some of it's a little bit, like I need to understand where they're coming from. And I do because I've been in the nonprofit sector, right? I understand grants. They're going to be up at 3:00 AM writing grants on deadlines. If they don't have a process, they're going to gain weight. They're going to miss time with their family. What's really important to them, it's really not the bottom dollar a lot of times, it's these other things, right? And to really talk to that and be able to have the process that solves that as well, you can't really talk to that unless you can solve it. And I think a lot of people kind of dive into there, for them for profit. I was like _____. And I don't really like the pain. I'm like, I don't want to cause more pain, I want to cause… I always say when I'm talking to my students that are consultants, to say, talk about how to solve a problem. That's your sales. You don't think, oh, gosh, I got to go sell something. Because then they get stuck in all of the trauma with money and all of the things. No, come into it and say, this is how I can solve a problem and stand behind that, right? So I see a lot of, like, the way we talk and the way we think about it doesn't have to be so I feel like in the for profit world. It's a little bit more like, here's your cookie cutter system. And with us, it's a little different because there's more conversations that we can have and we don't always have to be so, like, your business is going to die. Like, your nonprofit is going to fall apart if you don't hire me. And it's like, maybe that's true, maybe it's not. So we can have different conversations too. Yeah.
00:23:55 Jess: And so you seem to me as someone that's invested in yourself quite a bit and you've taken your own professional development and learning really seriously. I'm wondering if you could like rapid fire, myth bust, excuse me, around what maybe the gurus teach versus what you actually have shown to work. For example, one thing that I always say for at least my personal boonies is that a seven day cart close is not going to work for them. My customer needs a three week cart open, and I had to learn that the hard way by nonprofits. Three weeks later, two weeks after my cart being closed, being, like, I just got to sit down with my board. I just got to get that approved. I didn't have the authority to buy that or whatever. So I'm just curious, is it cart close? Is it price point? You talked about reframing pain points a little bit, but just like, do gurus teach that? You're like, yeah, that's cute, but that doesn't really work for us. That has actually worked for your buyer.
00:25:11 Holly: Yeah, I definitely think that emails are one. I've really worked on my emails a lot, and I've even bought those cookie cutter emails and all of the things, and I'm like, you know what? It doesn't have my voice, and I feel like bringing yourself to it. And I've learned a lot as far as all the things, the cookie cutter, I think people really want to sell that. And then really people I've worked with are more about, like, tune in to yourself. And I've really brought that to the table as far as, like, I need to tune in, and even if I don't think this is maybe going to go over, it's me, and I need to stand behind that. So I do get people being like, oh, Holly, you send too many emails or you don't send enough emails. You do this or you do that. And it's hard taking that sometimes, but you got to kind of look at it and say, okay, well, that's your business and this is my business, and this is where I feel, and maybe I'll change it in a year, but I need to kind of stand behind what I do. So I think it's also like, if you hear all that, you really got to sit with it. For me, it's not about, just like, [busy messes]. I love that, but I also think it's about anything you hear, sit with it and be like, how do I feel about this? How does it feel to me, right? And if it doesn't feel right and I'm feeling that from my clients or from who I'm marketing to that it's off, I need to change that, right? Because it's my company. And that's what's so cool because everybody has a different company, right? So, yeah, I think that's part of it, too, is like, sit with it. I've learned to really feel like what's unique.
00:26:40 Holly: And for me, I've been talking about women and nonprofits a lot, and I've been doing a lot this month for Women's History Month, right? And talking about pay gaps and talking about representation gaps and on my YouTube channel, and guess what? I'm getting all hater comments from white guys, and you got to take it with a grain of salt. And I'm like, where is this even coming from, right? Like, oh my goodness, why are you saying this? I'm like using stats, like hello, you know what I mean? So it's also like just standing behind what you believe in and knowing that, yeah, some people might say do this, don't talk about woman in nonprofits, Holly, because then you're not going to sell or whatever. Because you're going to get those haters. But no, I'm going to do what I want, right? You know what I mean? If I have a voice and I believe in my voice, I'm going to use it, right? So, yeah. So I think, like settling in there.
00:27:29 Cindy: Yeah, I love that. And your people will find you that way and you're going to be surrounded by the people you want to work with, right?
00:27:37 Holly: Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:38 Cindy: Which is so great. I'm curious of advice or sources of advice that you have found particularly helpful in your business. So those are some myths or things that haven't translated, but what has translated really well? What resources would you recommend to other consultants?
00:27:58 Holly: Oh, man. What I've really liked is I use Toggle and I think any kind of time tracker is a time tracker, right? I have used that and that's been one of a resource or, you know what I mean, to help me really, be really good. Because now I can look back at my data, right? If I track my time and then I'm clearly tracking because it does come in various forms, as you heard, like I have diverse streams of income that come in, that can be a lot, that can feel overwhelming, so I do have to keep up with it, but what's great and then I track my time. So every time I'm working on my grant mentorship, I am, boom, time, boom, right? So by the end of every single quarter, I can look back and say, what brought in the most money, right? What brought in money? Where was my time, right? And that's been so helpful for me because now I know what to plan for the next quarter or the next year. I really have an understanding because of data. And I love data. I'm seduced by data, right? I do like data rules. But if I don't have it and it can be really overwhelming as a business owner to be tracking a lot of different things. But if those are just really basic systems that I've set up, like you can run your ThriveCart report. You can run your Toggle report. Like it makes a little report for you and then you can do this really good.
00:29:12 Holly: And the other thing I really bring into it, okay, is not only what brought in the most money, what took the least amount of time or the most efficient use of my time, where did I find the most joy, right? And I actually rank those, such a data. But then I know I really want to spend more time in my grant professional mentorship. I really love people, teaching them how to run businesses and grow their businesses. That's what's changed my life. I love that. And it's brought in money, and it hasn't taken a whole lot of my time. But last year, I was able to say, you know, it took more time than the money brought in, so I need to raise my prices. So then I was able to make a very non emotional decision. It was based on data, and that was so helpful, I can't even tell you. I'm like, everyone, track your timeand track your money, and then you can make decisions with that data. That's not emotional, that's not just like, oh, what should I raise my price to? You know what I mean? Like, all of that. That's a lot to work out, but when you have that, it can really help. So if everyone, listening, do that at least.
00:30:12 Jess: Yeah, that's really good advice. I know Cindy's like, happy, smiling over there because as a fellow numbers gal, she's like, yeah. You talked about measuring joy and time and money. I'm curious, if you could just speak into a little bit, their seasons for creating, their seasons for earning, and how you balance that. Or maybe a better phrase would be like, plan for that because sometimes it's hard to do all of those things at one time. And so any advice for folks that are trying to do it all at the same time but failing miserably?
00:30:55 Holly: Yeah, I mean, it can be a hard, and I never call it a balance, you know what I mean? Balance is overused. I call it more like alignment or harmony, right? Like trying to find because there's going to be times during a launch that you're going crazy. There's going to be times during grant writing season, if you're writing grants or whatever your services are, that it's more the season, or you just get a lot of clients coming in, and you just got to prepare for that, right? A lot of people start a consultancy because one of the biggest things I've heard and let me know if you guys hear this, too is, it's flexibility in their schedule. It's freedom in their schedule. A lot of times money. Yeah, it's there, too, but it's more about that. And the misnomer is a lot of people think, oh, Holly, you're just like, working three hours a day, making all this passive income or whatever. And I'm like, there are times like, yesterday, I had a long work day, you know what I mean? And that was a part of it because I'm working on something that I know, and I have this in my quarter to get finished by the end of the quarter. I don't owe you $100 if I don't do it yet anyway. But you know what I mean, it can really feel. Yeah, you can. And you have to plan for that. So I love that, Jess, that you said, plan for it because I do. I put in like, before my quarter starts, like, what are the main three goals that I'm going to get for my business? Like, not all of them.
00:32:11 Holly: And like I said, even if it's one of my favorites and it's one of my precious things, if I can't get it done, well, I got to put it off for the next quarter, or I got to put it on deck because I have to be able to have that time and that space to be able to do what I need. So, yes, this quarter, a lot of it's launched, a lot of it's prep. But I also know, I need to, like, this summer, I'm going to go to the States with my daughter and have time off and I need to get things organized and automated and prepared before then, right? So it is knowing your schedule. And it's kind of hard sometimes if you just have clients coming in at different times, but you can know how many clients you have the capacity to serve, right? And you can create a waitlist. Yes. You don't have to say yes to every single client just because they're coming in, because you're like, it's raining and I know there's going to be a desert around the corner. Create a waitlist and you don't have a desert, right? That also creates more like, oh my gosh, she's popular, he's popular. They're doing too well. They got that many clients. You can create boundaries, that create that space, that you can then work on things. And yes, you are going to have those loads a little bit sometimes, but it can't be always. You got to balance it out because having that creative space to work on your business is so important, right?
00:33:29 Jess: So important.
00:33:30 Holly: So even if it's automating systems, you don't always have to hire people either, right? You can. But there's other things that you can do. You can eliminate it. You can delegate it. You can just put it off and wait for later or you can streamline it, right? So I kind of say do one of four things.
00:33:46 Jess: Yeah, that's really good advice. Before we move into our last confession question, I have to share some advice from a past guest, Iman Ismail, who's our very loved copywriter. She was just talking about on her Instagram stories, how she went on a holiday for a week or two weeks or something. And she said that one thing she does in her business, because I actually think that fellow nonprofit consultants spend way too much time, like creating or building and not selling or doing revenue generating activities. The one thing she said she does is no matter what, the Monday she comes back to work or the Sunday night before she comes back to work, she does something revenue generating. So that's replying to all of her inquiries that maybe have come in. It's checking on her forms. It's following up with clients. It's something to get the money tree a shaken. And I thought, oh my gosh, that is such good advice because it's so easy, right, to just jump into your email or check in with your team or whatever. So anyway, I just had to share that advice too, because I thought it was good.
00:34:55 Holly: So good. It’s so good.
00:34:57 Jess: Okay.
00:34:59 Holly: I got to work on my website. I've been doing it for three weeks. Do you have any clients right now? No, but my website's got to get done. No, it doesn't.
00:35:06 Jess: No, it doesn’t.
00:35:07 Holly: Really? Honestly, no one cares that you have a website except for you at this point. Go get some clients, right? Yeah. So I love that. I love that. Yeah, you got to remember, especially when you're doing consultant work, right? Because selling products and group coaching and all that, very different than service work. Those are almost two different businesses, right? Like, very different. So service work, you got to be working in your business a lot more than working on your business. I really believe that, you know what I mean? I believe that your percentage of time because you can make so much more money that way, right? It just makes sense. So, yeah, I love that perspective. Like, do something revenue generating. Yes.
00:35:43 Jess: I don’t know. She's a smart cookie. That Iman. Okay, so we love to ask this question of all of our fellow nonprofit consultants. If you had to confess one thing that you are working on in your business, you need to be working more on your business, something that maybe people would be surprised to know about you and your business. what would it be?
00:36:04 Holly: Oh, man, there's so much. One of the big things that I'm doing this year is creating more SOPs and actually getting training and how to lead more teams because I don't have employees, right? That's just not my business model. I tried to go there in the early days and build up this big agency and do all that, and I was like, that's not me. But what I have is a lot of consultants that do very specific work, that's like what they excel in, right? Like, someone right now I just hired for the YouTube channel. So I'm really excited about that, getting that brushed up, it was just like a good content dump place for me for so long. And it was either like, stop doing it or brush it up, right? So I was like, okay, I'm going to brush it up. So there, you got someone, YouTube is her thing, right? And then I have somebody else that's doing very specific just my show notes, finally from my podcast. You guys know how liberating that is. And then somebody else actually does the audio editing, so it's kind of like split, you know what I mean? And it's very different. And what I found right now, because I have so many different people, I have like five different people doing very specific things, right?
00:37:11 Holly: And I'm not saying this is the way to do it or not. It's just the way that I've evolved in my business right now. But one of the things I'm finding is that this person likes to talk to me on WhatsApp. This person likes it on Asana. This person likes it. And I'm like, I've got to come up and say, this is the way I talk, and this is the way that we do things, and this is the way you talk together in case you cross over on certain things. So that's something I'm really intentional about. And I have a coach now to help me get that organized because I realize these are skills I don't know. I didn't learn how to do all of that, right? So I'm learning in my business to set up, as I look at scaling different things in my business that I need to also set up. And a lot of that was two mindset. I can do it all. It takes me less time if I just do it than teaching somebody else how to do all the things, right? And then is that really a few $100? Is that really meaningful to spend it? I could just get it done, and it's like, well, yes, but that's taking my time. So I'm really knowing the value of my time to focus on my business and being intentional about growth right now. I have to have more systems in place and learn how to be a better team leader in that way with the consultants that I work with that are awesome, you know what I mean? But I got to be a better, like getting done things earlier and all of that and learning that process. So, yeah, definitely, entrepreneurs. I feel like we're a mismatch of skills and some things where we can naturally do well and some things we really got to learn, and we don't have to do it all either, right? But when you're hiring people, it is, I think, a learning curve for me because I'm used to doing everything and trying to give that away and being okay with it is something I'm learning as well. Yeah.
00:38:56 Cindy: Amazing. Thank you for sharing that and all your wisdom today. If our listeners want to connect with you, what's the best way to do that?
00:39:06 Holly: Absolutely, grantwritingandfunding.com. So we have all of our things there. You can see all of the different things that we got going on and how I run my business. And of course, we have a nonprofit consulting conference coming up on August 23rd and 24th, so your listeners may really be enjoying that. If they didn't come last year, to come this year, it's going to be a lot of fun we have. Our theme this year is, know when and how to grow your business. So really looking at those growth. It's kind of fun because I'm going through a lot of this on kind of a different way, but also applying that to know because that's the questions we get a lot, too, is I'm starting to grow a business, or my nonprofit consultancy, or I want to do this webinar. I want to do this thing. And it's like, okay, well, how do you know how much to invest then at that point? All of the things, right? So, yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. And of course, I have a grant writing and funding podcast, and for all the podcast listeners, the best, your natural way to kind of get consumed content. We got some great things over there for consultants that we talk about as well.
00:40:06 Cindy: Amazing. Thank you so much, Holly.
00:40:09 Jess: Thanks, Holly.
00:40:10 Cindy: Thanks to all our listeners.
00:40:12 Holly: Yes. And you have to come on my podcast, both of you. I know it works, but thank you for having me on this. This has been so much fun. I love talking to consultants and you guys are awesome. So it's been really fun to get to know you guys a little bit more through this process, like going back and forth and meeting before this in the green room and all that. So, yeah, thank you.
00:40:31 Cindy: Our pleasure.
00:40:35 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
00:40:46 Jess: Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I, so we can repost you.
00:40:55 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.
00:40:59 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts, so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.
00:41:05 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe, so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.
00:41:12 Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.
00:41:20 Cindy: See you next time.