Balancing Two Businesses with Jennie Armstrong

There's no shortcut for showing your work and doing good work and building those relationships. You can post on LinkedIn all day long and be killer on social media, but if you aren't doing great work and then you aren't genuinely connecting with people, you're going to have a really hard time - Jennie Armstrong

Balancing two businesses with Jennie Armstrong

Jennie Armstrong, founder of Wild Awake and Delve, started her second business when she kept getting people who weren’t her core audience asking for her services. 

Jennie shares the behind-the-scenes journey of transitioning from a solopreneur to building a thriving consulting firm and online program - under the banner of two brands. Discover her strategies for attracting ideal clients, creating irresistible offers, and managing a remote team - all while serving as an elected state representative.

Key Highlights:

• Understand Jennie's decision-making process for hiring employees versus subcontractors as her business expanded.

• Learn her proven tactics for generating a consistent pipeline of clients through relationship-building and word-of-mouth marketing.

• Gain insights into effectively onboarding and leading a remote team aligned with your vision and values.

• Explore the systems and processes she implemented to facilitate growth while maintaining quality and work-life balance.

• Discover her candid confessions about the challenges, lessons learned, and privileges that enabled her entrepreneurial journey.

00:00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Mission

Cindy and Jess introduce their podcast, aimed at helping nonprofit coaches and consultants scale their businesses past six figures by sharing insights and experiences in the field.

00:02:10 Discussion on Juneteenth

The hosts discuss the significance of Juneteenth, its history in the United States, and its celebration as a day to reflect on the end of slavery and support black businesses.

00:06:01 Introduction of Guest Jennie Armstrong

Jennie Armstrong, founder of Delve and Wild Awake, joins the podcast to discuss serving nonprofits through her creative agency and supporting ambitious women through her consultancy, sharing insights on her dual business model.

00:08:10 Balancing Multiple Roles

Jennie shares her experience balancing her roles as an elected state representative, a business owner, and a mom, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing sleep and sacrificing other activities to focus on her priorities.

00:09:21 The Evolution of Business Strategies

Reflecting on a shift from word-of-mouth marketing to a new business model involving direct-to-consumer sales and course offerings, exploring authenticity in coaching and consultancy fields.

00:11:21 The Power of Relationships in Business

Emphasizing the significance of genuine connections and relationship-building over traditional marketing strategies, highlighting the value of client experience and emotional engagement.

00:13:48 Navigating Business Evolution

Discussing the journey of transitioning from individual client services to a one-to-many business model, sharing insights on personal growth and timing in expanding business offerings.

00:15:57 Strategic Business Development

Exploring the deliberate steps taken in developing a course offering, including market testing, ideal client interviews, course structure creation, platform selection, and design considerations.

00:19:03 Learning Through Practice and Iteration

Highlighting the importance of testing theories through one-on-one services before scaling to a larger program, sharing the joy of creating and refining a comprehensive course package.

00:19:48 The Privilege of Entrepreneurship

Acknowledgment of the privilege involved in launching a business, including support from family and a flexible schedule, impacting the ability to succeed without sacrificing sanity or health.

00:21:22 Navigating Course Sales

Discussion on the challenges and successes of launching a course, focusing on word-of-mouth marketing, slow launch strategies, and the goal of enrolling 300 women in the legacy collective.

00:24:41 Exploring Marketing Strategies

Delving into marketing tactics such as PR, partnerships, masterclasses, and sales funnels to attract students, with a focus on trying various approaches and setting ambitious enrollment targets.

00:25:32 Becoming a State Representative

Insight into the decision to run for office as a state representative, advocating for important issues like paid family leave and mental health, representing LGBTQ individuals, and achieving legislative successes.

00:27:30 Importance of Email Newsletters

Emphasis on the significance of email lists for communication, building ideal client relationships, and utilizing newsletters as a key marketing tool in business growth.

00:29:55 The Focus on Wild Awake and Nonprofit Work

The speaker's primary focus is on Wild Awake, emphasizing its nonprofit work and not aiming for massive growth, while leveraging it for credibility online.

00:31:31 Transition to Wild Awake

The speaker shares a personal shift towards serving more women, leading to the creation of Wild Awake, starting with low-cost projects and building the program while gaining valuable feedback.

00:33:51 Behind the Scenes of Delve

Insight into the operations of Delve, including team structure, financial integration with Wild Awake, revenue growth strategies, and the role of systematization in scaling operations.

00:36:49 Marketing to Nonprofits vs. Nonprofit Consultants

Differences in selling and marketing strategies between nonprofits and consultants, addressing scarcity mindset, scope creep, therapy-like interactions with nonprofits, and the confidence challenges faced by consultants.

00:40:00 The Importance of Sharing Financial Realities

Highlighting the significance of discussing personal financial situations and the privilege of having support in achieving career goals.

00:41:32 Acknowledging Unspoken Burdens

Recognizing the unspoken burdens of household tasks and the mental load that often go unnoticed in conversations about success.

00:42:36 Embracing Imperfections and Realities

Embracing imperfections, acknowledging limitations, and normalizing seeking help in areas where one may not excel.

00:43:06 The Power of Vulnerability for Connection

Stressing the importance of vulnerability and honesty in building genuine connections, essential for long-term success in business.

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com

Connect with Jennie:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JennieForAlaska 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniemarmstrong/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenniemariearmstrong 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wild_awake_creative/ 

Delve: https://www.delveforgood.com/ 

Wild Awake: https://www.wildawakecreative.com/ 

The Legacy Collective: https://www.wildawakecreative.com/legacy 

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com

Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/

LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman

Connect with Jess:

Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/

Transcript:

[00:00:00 - 00:00:03]
Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

[00:00:03 - 00:00:11]
And I'm Jess Campbell. Where two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.

[00:00:11 - 00:00:20]
After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and lived to see what sticks.

[00:00:20 - 00:00:30]
We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.

[00:00:30 - 00:00:51]
Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

[00:00:51 - 00:01:10]
No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful, successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

[00:01:11 - 00:01:27]
Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly. When it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

[00:01:28 - 00:01:30]
You ready? Let's go.

[00:01:31 - 00:01:32]
Hey, Jess.

[00:01:32 - 00:01:33]
Hello.

[00:01:33 - 00:01:38]
Hello. We are coming to you from summer break, where I feel like there's.

[00:01:38 - 00:01:39]
But you're not on.

[00:01:40 - 00:01:52]
I'm not on yet. But you're on summer break. Yeah, it's a summer. I feel like people are kind of both, like, peacing out a little bit, but also freaking out a little bit.

[00:01:52 - 00:02:01]
So I know there's a lot of feelings going on. I also want to say, happy Juneteenth. We were recording this on Juneteenth, so happy day to all those celebrating.

[00:02:02 - 00:02:10]
We don't have Juneteenth in Canada, so for those of our non-US listeners, can you tell us what it is?

[00:02:10 - 00:05:06]
I mean, sure. I hope I like, articulate correctly. For those who don't know the history of the United States. There was a civil war. Slavery was at the center of it. And because of the way that both information and humans traveled, it took over two years from the ending of the war to the information that slavery was over to make it to the slaves who were living in Texas. I think that was, like, almost as far west as slavery was being practiced. And I'm pretty sure it was on June 19 that the declaration made it all the way. And so it's a recognition of the celebration of the end of slavery through and through, I think since the death of George Floyd, it's really taken a center, rightfully so. Like, it's made a centerpiece as a day to celebrate black people, black businesses. I know personally, for me, I either try to spend only with black businesses, black business owners on Juneteenth or shout them out or recognize them. But it's also, I think, a way to reflect back on just the absolute craziness of, like, that statement that it took two years. Like, people practiced slavery after it was abolished for two years, because that's how long it took to make its way across the United States. There is, like, so much learning. We don't have time for it in this episode, but I will recommend for folks who are maybe like me and just a little bit less educated on topic on Apple tv, my husband and I watched a mini series, maybe called Lincoln, I think, and it was about the aftermath of the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. And in it, it goes into the actual events of what it was like for black people coming out of slavery and, like, the rebuilding and the reconstruction. And it was, I mean, what was given and taken away and the prejudice and the crime. It was just, like, really educational and informational for me. And also, you can't help but not think, especially on a day like Juneteenth, what our world would be like if black people a never were forced into slavery, but also if people were given what they deserved. Following that war, it's like. It's kind of wild. So I hope I did that justice. I don't know, Jennie, if I got that absolutely wrong.

[00:05:06 - 00:05:19]
No, thank you. I've heard about Juneteenth, but because it's not something that's observed in Canada, it's really only ever been on the peripheries for me. So I appreciate that. And I will check out that documentary.

[00:05:20 - 00:05:22]
Oh, it's not. It's a show. It's like.

[00:05:22 - 00:05:26]
It's a show. Oh, it's a. Yeah. Fiction or inspired by true events kind of thing.

[00:05:26 - 00:05:28]
Yeah. Cool. Cool.

[00:05:28 - 00:06:01]
This will not air on Juneteenth, but we are recording it today, so it's always important to shout that out. So today we have a guest. I'm super excited for this conversation because we actually. I don't know Jennie that well. No, neither of us do. And so this is actually, Jennie, I think you were referred to us by one of our previous guests, which is also fantastic, because our networking community know the best people. Welcome to the podcast, Jennie.

[00:06:01 - 00:06:07]
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I feel like I'm inside the screen of the thing I've been watching from the outside.

[00:06:09 - 00:06:43]
Amazing. So I'll let you do the bulk of introducing yourself, but for those listening, your name is Jennie Armstrong, and you have two companies which I'm super excited to talk about. One is wild awake, and the other is Dell. And not to give too much away, but you kind of have done what Jess and I have done, which is kind of, you know, we serve nonprofits, but then also build out this sort of separate brand that serves consultants or business owners. So tell us a little bit about what you do and how I get paid.

[00:06:43 - 00:08:09]
Yeah. So, hi, everyone. So nice to be here. As Cindy mentioned, I am the founder of Delve. So we serve nonprofits and philanthropic groups and small governments. We kind of bring together both. Killer creative. We're a full service creative agency, and we combine that with issue area expertise. So I am an elected state representative. I have a background in policy. We've worked in nonprofits. And so we're bringing so much more than just the creative. It's really a full service, strategic kind of support system. And so that's been something really fun. I've done that for eight years. And along the way, probably similar to y'all, I got asked by the consultants that I was working with, hey, can you do for us what you do for these organizations? And that is how Wild Awake was born. So we support ambitious women who are bettering the world just like y'all. And we do a lot of the similar things. We have a program for launching your brand and website. It's all completely built out a community. We do operation support. So I love one of the things that y'all talk about is confessions and not gatekeeping. And that is core to my soul. So for a long time, I would just meet with women and give them everything. I'm like, here's my Google Drive and my contracts. And I was like, wait, I think I can make money from this. So we love doing operations and project management, support, coaching, leadership development, all of that good stuff. And then, yeah, as I mentioned, on top of that, I am serving my first and last term as an elected state representative in Alaska. And I'm a mom, so the last one doesn't pay me. It pays me. Enjoy and love. But the other three are how I get paid.

[00:08:10 - 00:08:13]
Wow, wow, wow, wow. Do you sleep?

[00:08:13 - 00:08:40]
I do sleep a lot. I have. Sleep is very core to what I do when I just had finished my four month session where I'm, like, in Juneau and traveling back and forth every week between my home city of Anchorage and Juneau, and I basically only sleep and work. I would get up at five or 06:00 a.m. work on my companies for a few hours. I have a great team running things. Go to the capitol all day and then just come home. Home and sleep. So I just sacrificed a lot of other things to prioritize that. Yeah.

[00:08:40 - 00:09:21]
Which I guess is, like, how it goes, right? You can get whatever you want done when it's a priority. Okay. My first question launches into, and I'm speaking from experience. I know Cindy understands this as well. I'm curious how you market your two businesses to two different audiences. Are you talking about one thing on one platform, a different on a different channel? Are you talking a little bit about everything everywhere, or is one thing kind of more of a back pocket offer? You don't really talk about it or offer it publicly, but when it comes up, you're, you know, offering it? Like, how I've. I've personally found that very tricky, like, nearly impossible. So I'm just curious how you navigate that.

[00:09:21 - 00:10:31]
Yeah. So one of my confessions is that I've been doing this for eight years and building everyone's brands and businesses and websites, and it is not until the fall that we had our own websites. My whole business for eight years has been word of mouth. And I'm in such an interesting period right now. The short answer is, I talk about both all the time because for me, they're very connected. I think it's important. I see a lot of folks who, for me, it feels almost a little scammy. They're talking about being coaches to groups, but I'm like, but do you do that thing? You know how it's coaches who teach other people to be coaches? And I'm like, we know how to support nonprofit consultants because we are. We have this whole other company, and we are day in and day out doing the work that you're doing. We're not separated from it, but I'm figuring it out. The short. The short answer is I'm learning how to do that. I'm talking about both on LinkedIn, I'm experimenting with marketing. It is a whole new shift. I feel like I'm starting a new business right now because I'm now doing d to c. I've packaged my consulting into a course that I'm selling, and that's a whole new experience not spending all of my time on billable hours and not panicking where I'm like, I spent 4 hours today just on pr and marketing. That's just the new normal. So I'm figuring it out. I don't know.

[00:10:32 - 00:11:21]
Okay. I feel like I have a list of things that I want to talk about based on all what you said so far. But I just want to start with this idea of the creative agency had no website because I think a lot of people look at what success, what they see successful entrepreneurs or business owners like, what it looks like for them, so strong LinkedIn presence, beautiful website, podcast host, wrote a book, all these things. We think that's what success is. But you're such a great example that you can, you don't actually need those things. You need good referrals and clients who are happy. Can you talk a little bit about eight years and how old's the website? A few months.

[00:11:21 - 00:11:24]
You said we launched in the fall.

[00:11:24 - 00:11:35]
Yeah. So how. Let's talk a little bit about that referral marketing. Was it passive? Were you proactive? How did that work out for you?

[00:11:36 - 00:13:23]
Yeah, I got so lucky, like, truly for eight solid years and still I'm completely word of mouth. And I always tell everyone relationships are everything. That is just what it comes down to. My relationships back from college and the work that I did and people that I met and then just kind of finding opportunities to put myself out there in a really natural way, connecting with people authentically. I think the big thing I say is there's just no shortcut for, you know, showing your work and doing good work and building those relationships. There's not like a way around that you can post on LinkedIn all day long and be killer on social media, but if you aren't doing great work and then you aren't genuinely connecting with people, like, you're going to have a really hard time, you're never going to break out of that funnel. You're always going to be at the top of that funnel. And so that's been so important to me. And it's so interesting now because when I launched a course in the fall, I'm like, I have this whole network of women who are my ideal clients. They helped me build my course, and it was kind of cool to have that to help me seed everything I'm building. And now I'm on the other side of it where I'm like, okay, balancing those relationships, but trying a whole new world of marketing. So, yeah, I just can't stress enough, I think. So many people get clients and then they feel like they have to be hitting the streets again on LinkedIn. And I'm like, don't forget, you have to have that amazing client experience that is so important. I know that sounds so simple, but you actually have to do great work. You have to go above and beyond. You have to love people. You have to think about the key words that you want them to use to describe you and make them feel that way. Do you want them to feel loved, encouraged and celebrated when you can build connections and create those feelings between your clients, which are things that I don't think male business owners are talking about, but I am thinking a lot about and finding words for, like, feminine leadership and rebuilding these boxes. Yeah. So relationships. Top of the list for sure.

[00:13:24 - 00:13:48]
I love that. And to underscore, like, it's taken you also, that those eight years of building before you started built, like, creating a one to many offer, which, again, I think a lot of people think, start with that. So can you talk a little bit about that transition? I don't even want to call it a transition because I'm sure it's not all, like, from all of one to all of the next.

[00:13:48 - 00:13:49]
Evolution.

[00:13:49 - 00:14:11]
Evolution. Better word. So. But there's two evolutions, right? One is going from, you know, servicing nonprofits and organizations to creating the second brand, and now to create the one to many. So how did you know it was time to start to look at growing in those areas?

[00:14:11 - 00:15:56]
Yeah. So I started consulting when I was 26. So I'm 35 now, and I just washing sick of being in toxic male environments and one. And just, you know, I don't know how I had the confidence to do it, but I did. I just traveled the world and built my company for four years. And for me, it was just about time. Freedom and time to heal from PTSD and do a lot of personal development work. And I wasn't money motivated. I was lucky to have enough money to pay me and a small team and do what I needed to do. And then I turned 30. I met my now husband from your previous guest, Meredith, or alongside Meredith noble, your previous guests, who referred me here. And then I got married and had a baby very quickly and kind of getting to where we are now. I am now three years postpartum, and I feel like. And I think other people who've had kids can kind of relate to this. When my son turned two, it was like my brain turned on in a new way, and I had all of this creative energy and all these ideas that I had. Been sitting on and didn't feel I had the space for. I felt very capable, I felt excited, I felt hungry. And so it just seemed like the right time. And so I spent a ton of time. It took me, like, two years to build my program, and I just went for it, decided that I couldn't wait any longer. I was tired of sitting on it. I was tired of putting it off. I was tired of feeling like it was perfectionism getting in the way, and I just needed to do it. So, yeah, and it's interesting because I'm still consulting, so I'm still doing consulting projects with large national female led consulting firms. I'm working with solo female founders under Wild Awake, and then I'm still doing my nonprofit and social good initiative work. So I'm in the middle of that evolution now of figuring out, like, who's our next hire and how do I spend my time and where am I feeling most alive and how can I be best of service? So we are talking in the middle of the messy evolution.

[00:15:57 - 00:16:01]
Let me know if you come out of it. I'm like, does it ever not get un messy?

[00:16:01 - 00:16:02]
I don't know.

[00:16:02 - 00:16:33]
That could be like a mirrored reflection now. Okay, can you walk us through, like, the steps? Like, what did it actually look like from. And I appreciate this. I think that I'm actually this way, too. I'm not spontaneous. Chew on things for quite a while sometimes to then bring it to life. And it sounds like you just said two years from, like, the idea to the action. But what did it look like? Tactfully? Tactfully?

[00:16:33 - 00:16:34]
Yeah.

[00:16:34 - 00:16:38]
What was step one, two, three to making it happen?

[00:16:39 - 00:19:01]
Yep. So, and I don't know that I would recommend this for everyone. Cause I think I took a much slower process, and I'm in a place now where I feel like I've broken through a ceiling. And I came up with an idea yesterday that I've made more progress on in 3 hours than I did in probably the first three months or three years of my course idea. And so I was in a different place, and it took longer, but it was coming up with the name it was developing. I basically have this proprietary template, website template that we use as our seed for every website we build for a consultant. Right. And I beta tested it. I did twelve, like, one on one consulting packages, essentially, like, launched a dozen websites. Iterated, learned from it, and then we started templatizing everything that we did. Every time I would talk, like, my, my, like, right hand woman, Claire would take notes, and we would capture things. And we started creating. We were trying to explain what we did. We're like, and ask our own clients, like, how would you explain what we did? I did an entire ideal client interview process where I had tons of questions. I didn't. There wasn't too much I could look at in the market because there is not yet a product like the one that we've built. And then it was so much grinding. It was just. It takes so much energy to the. Of course, my first course was, like, giant and scale. And so it was like, post its on the wall. It's framing out the course. It's writing a script, it's recording. It's figuring out, even just determining the platform you want to use. And then that in itself is the journey. Like learning Kartra, learning best practices. There's so many things. I see a lot of entrepreneurs who are like, you can launch your course in two weeks. And I'm like, you could. You could. But this is not just like a normal course. It was a really large scale program, and I wanted it to be. I kind of overdo it where I was like, I have a million things. Like, one. Just one example is there's a module for doing your DIY brand. So there's six brand pathways we give you. You can fully customize it. We curated mocktail and cocktails and playlists to get you in a creative mindset. We just went so extra on the resources and love that we wanted just to create, so it just took time. The other thing is, we care a lot about design, so designing assets takes a long time having people review things. My husband, bless his heart, as the one who went through the entire course and four days and gave us feedback and found typos. But it's a slog. Like, it was. It was a lot of work, but when I was done, it was the most euphoric feeling in the world, and I just kept staring at it, and I was like, I made this not. Not so dissimilar from when I gave birth.

[00:19:03 - 00:19:48]
Oh, it's. That's amazing. And I just want to, again, underscore something you said, because I think it's so important to just sit with this, which is, you didn't just create the course. You actually tested your theories. And you. I always say to people, I get paid to learn, and it sounds like you've launched as one to one service, get paid to create for those people and learn and get practice doing the things that you can replicate in your one to many program. And I just think that's so, so fantastic. Now, did you take any course or program on building an online course, or you sort of, like, boot? I don't want to say bootstrapped it, but, like, built it all from your head?

[00:19:48 - 00:21:22]
Yeah, I watched some Amy Porterfield videos, but mostly I had spent so much of my time as an entrepreneur lurking on people who were building passive income streams, studying sales funnels, seeing what they were doing, and it was just time for me to try it myself. The other thing I will say that I don't think enough people talk about in my case, like, having a young family, is that it took a lot of time and money, and I wouldn't have been able to do it. Especially. This is very timely on Juneteenth without the privilege that I have. A lot of people are like, but I worked so hard, and I'm like, lots of people work hard, and it doesn't mean it's going to pay off. Off in the same way. But I had a mother in law who was able to move in with me. My mom also moved in in the first three months of my son's life. I have a husband who has an incredibly flexible schedule, and so I also had a sa. I have a salary from my job as a representative. So that I only paid myself $6,000 last year in 2023, when I was, like, the main chunk of building and launching the course. So my take home last year was like $6,300. And I was consulting. I was pouring all of that money into design and creative and technology and my team and making sure that everyone else was paid and not doing a lot of billable hours, like barely any, and trying to keep everything running. And so it just, for me, it took a lot of privilege. If I wasn't in the position I was in, I don't think that I could have launched in this way, or if I had, I would have lost a lot of things along the way, like my sanity, my sleep, my health. And so I prioritize those things. It took me a slower amount of time because I have strong boundaries on my work hours, but I only did it because I had support, too.

[00:21:22 - 00:22:21]
I mean, thanks for acknowledging that, because I think that there is this comparison game that goes on a lot, and it's, well, she did it, I can do it. And it's not. Everyone has the same resources and time and privilege and all the things. Right. So thank you for just acknowledging that, because it's going to be a different journey for every single person. I want to talk a little bit about this idea that if you build it, they will come. So the thing, you've now invested time, you've invested labor, you've invested hard earned cash, and it's amazing. Like you said, you had this euphoric feeling when it was finished. It's something you're really, really proud of. Tell us a little bit about, like, how are sales going? What's course selling going? Like, I was just on a call with my staff person, and I was just. We were just talking about, is the land of courses still a thing? Like, we were just having this conversation, like, 28 minutes ago. So I'm just curious, what's it like?

[00:22:22 - 00:24:40]
Yeah. So as soon as I launched it and hit some of my newsletter, I started panicking. I was like, what if this is the worst course ever? What if it's not gonna work? What if it sucks? And all of our students so far have been through word of mouth. So people who are coming to us for consulting, and we funnel them into the course, and that was our original goal, was to replace consulting and have more time. Oh, we have maybe ten to 15 students right now, and that was kind of our plan because we launched in, like, October, November, and I went to Juno for session in January, so. And I just been out for a month. So right now, I feel like this, being on this podcast, being on LinkedIn in the past month, I feel like I'm a month into, like, actually trying to figure out what selling looks like, because we were just getting business, and I'm like, great. I can be doing my legislative work and trying to pass bills, and we have students who are taking a course. I'm really glad that I did that, because the feedback has been amazing. And I literally cried to my husband. I was like, it's working. Like, in my Claire, who's my right hand woman, and wild awaken Dell was like, oh, my God, they're doing it. They're using all the tools and the resources. It's working. They're excited. We've got all of these amazing testimonials without asking. And so now it's almost like I did a really slow launch, and I'm using all of that to, like, figure out what to do next. So my days right now are, like. Like, pr and applying for things and jumping on opportunities, like coming on podcasts and trying to figure out how to be on LinkedIn and not feel cringe and be myself and do I need to run ads? And what about SEO? And so I'm exploring a million things and throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. My goal that I am declaring is that I want 300 women in the legacy collective by the end of the year. So I am like. Because if I 333 women enrolling will make this a seven figure product, give or take, depending on discounts. So we've built a masterclass. We have a sales funnel. We're, like, jumping into different communities. I'm like, cold selling to other people who I meet, and I'm like, hey, you're in front of my audience. Can we partner together in a way that feels good and I can support you and this can benefit your audience. So I'm in the messy middle right now where I'm doing so many things and I don't have anything to show for what I've done in the past month. But who knows? Maybe three months from now, someone will be like, I heard you on confessions, and then I saw your masterclass and I went through your funnel, and now I'm in legacy collective. TBD on how it'll all go.

[00:24:41 - 00:24:42]
Yeah, you'll have to keep.

[00:24:42 - 00:24:46]
Yeah. Consulting is running the show right now.

[00:24:50 - 00:25:08]
Okay, Jennie, we are back for another round of rapid fire questions. You ready to play? Let's do it. Okay. You are a expert at all things, branding and websites. What is a majority ick for you on website?

[00:25:10 - 00:25:15]
A major ick for me is only talking about yourself and not talking about the person you're trying to reach.

[00:25:15 - 00:25:31]
Absolutely. You mentioned in our interview that you are a current state representative of Alaska. I mean, that's another episode in itself. But I'm just curious as to why you decided to pursue that endeavor.

[00:25:32 - 00:26:33]
Yeah, I had an eleven month old son, and there was a string of school shootings. The Roe decision leaked. This was in May 2022, and there was a formula shortage. And I was running around trying to find formula for my son, and I got asked. The short answer is, I said I would never run for office. I would do everything but that. And they got me at a crucial point, and I ended up winning my election and serving as the only mom in the entire legislature with an infant or a toddler. And we have a childcare crisis in Alaska, like in much of the US. And so I wanted to represent moms. I'm also one of the first out LGBTQ elected officials. I'm pansexual. Shout out to all the queer girlies out there. So myself and two others kind of made history with that. And I advocated for paid family leave, so. Paid family leave, mental health, talking about my own mental health journey, talking about my experience with sexual assault. And I just kind of wanted to practice what I preach by using storytelling and my life experiences to shake things up a little bit. So, yeah, I just. It was a really experience. And I got a bill passed. I got a budget amendment passed. It was pretty great.

[00:26:34 - 00:26:52]
Oh, my gosh. You are my hero. That's incredible. My third and last question has to do with Alaska because I feel like it's this state that not everyone gets to get to. And so I'm curious as to what's one thing everyone needs to know about Alaska.

[00:26:52 - 00:27:21]
The one thing everyone needs to know about Alaska is that it is not a place where you come and everything is created and waiting for you. It is a place of opportunity where you can come and build it. So to all the remote workers, people looking for a change, come to Alaska. I'm part of a steering committee for a company called Borealis, bringing remote workers up here to experience how Alaska is. And we're in a place of transition, but we're going to build something amazing here. So please come visit, come stay. Everyone can reach out to me for itineraries, tips, introductions. Have dinner at my house.

[00:27:22 - 00:27:22]
Oh, my gosh.

[00:27:22 - 00:27:25]
Incredible. Okay. Thanks for playing.

[00:27:25 - 00:27:26]
Thanks, guys.

[00:27:30 - 00:28:14]
So Cindy's been, like, pulling out and underscoring things. I want to underscore this magic world. I'm like a dog to a bone. You said the word newsletter. I was like, because if you don't know, I'm like a big fan of an email list above all other audiences. And you've mentioned that you've been in business for eight years. I'm guessing you've been building this newsletter list up until that time. I think it's significant that of all the places to launch, you launch to your email list first. So I'd love for you to just talk to us a little bit about your newsletter list. What does it look like? Are you, how are you building it? What is tells all the things about this newsletter? How large is it? Like, all this stuff.

[00:28:14 - 00:29:50]
It's a small newsletter. Small in comparison. Like, I think we have under a thousand people on it. What I like about our list is it is all our clients are ideal clients. And I did not build a newsletter list. I did not do a single best practice in the eight. Like, before I launched my websites. I did. I am the cobbler's kid who had no shoes. I was literally helping other women build their, like, multi seven figure businesses and launch their newsletters. And that's our specialty, is like, really creative and killer newsletters. And I'm like, you have to be doing this. And now we're prioritizing it. But, yes, I'm with you. I think emails are so important. I know there's a role for social media at the very top of the funnel, but I feel very strongly that you need to get your audience out of social as soon as, as possible because you don't want to be beholden to Mark Zuckerberg or the LinkedIn algorithm. It's just the fastest and best way to get in front of people. And that is how I did all of my communication in my eight years with my clients was through emails or, like little newsletter. So, yeah, right now I'm experimenting with, I created a masterclass that is our version of, I don't like the word sales funnel, but we created a sales strategy in digital marketing for nonprofit consultants. It's everything we've taught and done for years that we're now just giving away for free. So that's like our funnel. And then I've created a bunch of freebies. And so that's been an amazing way to immediately grow the list. I've always been driven by values and education, so I don't really ever post, subscribe to my newsletter. I'm like, hey, I'm giving away this free thing that's really powerful. And then I get their email in exchange. So I haven't actually checked our newsletter stats recently, but I think we get a pretty steady drip of people who are like, you know, downloading our freebies and resources, and that's been great. Yeah, but, so, okay, do you then.

[00:29:50 - 00:29:54]
Have two email lists? Like, you have your one per business?

[00:29:55 - 00:30:30]
So I'm only building for Wild Awake. So delve, I am fully word of mouth. Like, really, my, my focus on everything right now is wild awake, because delve, like, that will always just be word of mouth. We'll always be doing nonprofit work. And I'm not, I'm not trying to grow that into a huge thing. We are, we are booked and happy and doing what we want to do there. We love working with our partners. My goal is, is through the lens of wild awake. So that might answer your question from earlier. If I'm primarily representing myself online, like the CEO and founder of Wild Awake, but I still reference my other work as a representative and with valve to, like, basically give me street cred.

[00:30:31 - 00:31:31]
Yeah. And I think that there's something, like, as someone, and I think I can speak to for Jess as well on this, like, people who run our own nonprofit consulting businesses, who hire support for things like branding, communications, other things. It does make a difference working with people who have sector experience. Like, I really do not. But, but they can't just have sector experience. We've gone that route to where 90% of their clients are nonprofits and they, like, make an exception. For me as a business owner, that hasn't worked. So I'm, it's interesting. I would love to hear from you actually, around what was there sort of like an aha moment or point in time where people were asking you and you were just like, screw it, I'm just gonna do this. What made it worth it for you.

[00:31:31 - 00:31:33]
To switch to wild awake and start doing that work?

[00:31:34 - 00:31:36]
Yeah. Or to start building it? Yeah.

[00:31:36 - 00:33:50]
Yeah. So I had done a couple of websites for some women, and this is gonna sound ridiculous to some listeners, but I really was just like, I am manifesting wanting to move into serving more women, and I just felt so much joy from that. It was a really big shift. I think, as you know, working in nonprofits, there are so many dynamics. You're working with a lot of stakeholders. There can be scarcity mindset, there can be so many different things that come into play. And I was like, wow, it is so, it felt so generative, and it felt like a nice breakup in my work to be doing that. And I was just, I just kind of started telling people, I was like, I want to do this work. And then out of the blue, I got an email from someone, like a kind of a weak connection who was like, hey, my partner, like, saw something you did, and she was just wondering if you could do a website for her. And she was my first, like, true wild awake client where I was like, this is the beginning of wild awake. And I was just totally building the plane while I was flying it, and I was so stoked. And then I had a couple more women come forward and women that I was meeting, and I was like, hey, would you be willing? I would do really low cost, like, for this one woman, I did very low cost, like, basically at cost website and branding and strategic communications plan and all these assets in exchange for her giving me tons of feedback and writing what would be most useful and what she would need and how this would work best and basically giving us a little bit of grace as we figured it out and kind of built the program. And that was so beneficial. And I wouldn't have been able to do that if I didn't also have delve and all of my other clients running. So I was able to experiment and make less on other projects again, like you said, get paid to learn. So I just wanted to. I like to. I like to learn on the fly and build on the fly. So, yeah, it's just been so fun and brought me so much joy. And I think what's so nice about this work, and I think y'all can resonate, is you can see the outcome. Like, I can see the outcomes. There is a before and after for my clients. I don't have to guess. So much of my work is coaching, and I love doing that, but I can never just coach without some actionable outcome because the work I'm doing with the consultants is coaching. It's not just, here's a pretty website, it's what do I want my legacy to be and what are my values and who. Who are my ideal clients and how do I want to sound. And it's a very, like, intimate process, but I wouldn't just want to do that. I like the outcome. A plan, a website, a brand. Killing it on the revenue front.

[00:33:51 - 00:34:32]
Okay, both Jess and I have questions, but I'm going to go first. I'd love for you to tell us a little bit more about the sort of behind the scenes of Delve. Like you said, that's going to kind of operate at status quo. So it's, you have clients, word of mouth is working. How many clients do you have? What's a team like if you're not putting in hours there, who is doing that work? Do you pay yourself? Are the two companies separate financially? Or does it, like, tell. Give us a sort of, like, behind the scenes breakdown of how that operates and how you see that continuing to operate and working with Wild Awake.

[00:34:32 - 00:36:49]
Yeah. So the way that it works right now is it's one llc and Dell is a DBA and everything is in one bucket. We have a bookkeeper and we have coding in our bookkeeping to track, like, what revenue is from Dell versus wild awake. And we have it broken out in our Asana and in our drive, there's a consulting folder, and then the subfolders are wild awake and delve. So they are two different worlds. It is all the same team across both, and it's a lot of the same offering. So it's me. And then there is my right hand, who is right now calls herself director of operations and accounts, but is, like, about to be COO. She is amazing and is so integral to everything we do. And then there is our creative director, Daiya, and then we work with some other designers and contractors and consultants, depending, like, there's an I mean, artists we work with on certain things, especially for our nonprofit clients, when we need to illustrate, you know, something for a theory of change or something really intimate. And then, yeah, just kind of a team of people around us, like a bookkeeper and an attorney and an accountant, all those crucial people. So I'm offloading all of those tasks, and then our next big hire is going to be a full time, like, executive assistant or kind of what we might call an operations manager. And then the next hire this fall is going to be someone who will be helping run legacy collective. We have an online community and a. And all kinds of stuff that we do. So that's our shape right now, because I've worked in agencies before, we do the work of much larger teams. And the way we are able to take so many clients and do so much is because, and I know we like to talk about money. So I think we have, by the end of June, we'll be halfway through the year, and if we close the items in our pipeline, that'll be a quarter million for the first half of the year. And I didn't really work for four months of the first six months. And so that's pretty incredible. So we'll hopefully do about half a million this year in the consulting, and then hoping to do, like I said, michael, I. Everything is working towards a million dollars on that product, so I lost my train of thought. But we have this small team. We have so much templates, templates, templates. Everything is so built out, so systematized, and it took years to get to that point, but we are able to operate like clockwork in terms of, you know, when I onboard a client, I now have beautiful videos and fully designed workbooks and all of these things to get them going. That saves me so much time. So that's helped us scale and grow our revenue without really having to grow our team.

[00:36:49 - 00:37:08]
Okay, super helpful. Thanks for all the context and just information and congratulations. That's amazing. Like, way to go. I am curious, now that you are kind of straddling to audiences, what are some of the differences you've noticed in selling and marketing to nonprofits versus nonprofit consultants?

[00:37:08 - 00:37:18]
Oh, my gosh. What a good question. Okay, so I think that with nonprofits. Oh, man, I gotta think about this for a second.

[00:37:19 - 00:37:29]
While you think about it, that's literally the question I've written down. I was, like, selling to charities versus consultants. So it's on everyone's mind.

[00:37:29 - 00:39:31]
So I think that there's two big differences with nonprofits. I kind of alluded to this earlier. There is often, depending on the size, more of a scarcity mindset. There is always wanting more than, there's more likelihood of a scope creep. There's a lot more stakeholders, there's a lot more handholding, there's a lot more therapy and working through things with boards and all the different people they're bringing in, there's a lot of just gentle conversations and helping people work through nudging them into what is the best direction for them. Whereas with a lot of my female nonprofit consultants, they're kind of split into two groups. One of the things that is not going to be surprising, but that I've worked so hard on is I have all these amazing women who have killer fellowships, the best resumes you've ever seen, PhDs, and they have imposter syndrome. A lot of them are already running multi six figure, even seven figure solo consulting shops, and they don't have a brand and they don't have a website, and they don't put themselves out there. And so, so much of that is encouraging them that like, yes, it is time. There is something nudging you, saying it's time for that visibility, it's time to uplevel, it's time to break through your limiting beliefs. And so part of it is convincing them. And like some of the women who don't work with us, I can just tell it's coming from a place of fear, fear of being seen, fear of selling. They're all word of mouth, like us too. And I'm like, I get it. I am in the process of making myself very visible after not for so long. And then once they are on, though, they are in it, they are dedicated, they get it because they are consultants. I never have to worry about scope creep. They just get it. It's so, so easy and seamless because they know all the things that they hate working or maybe don't love about working with their clients. So I find it to be just very painless. Whereas working with a nonprofit, sometimes it can be the first time they've ever entered into an engagement with a consultant before or a creative agency. So it's two very different worlds. But yeah, I think at the end of the day, a lot of people, no matter who they are, are a little bit afraid about being, you know, that you need to be known and liked and trusted to sell, and then that that's also the scariest thing in the world to do. So working through that is a big part of the work because the work we do for them is so visible.

[00:39:31 - 00:39:46]
That's awesome. Yeah, I feel like there's definitely some big differences and you articulated them. Really. I feel like it's time for confessions. Jess and I are just checking in. Yeah.

[00:39:46 - 00:39:50]
There's any labs? I mean, you've been open book.

[00:39:50 - 00:39:59]
Yes. So transparent. I mean, obviously, you know, you know what we're all about, so. Yeah. Would you share with us your confession?

[00:40:00 - 00:41:32]
I feel like I already gave some away, like, last year, paying myself 6000, which this year my take home is going to be a little over 200,000. With my two roles, I'm now paying myself 85k. I've got big goals on that, but, yeah, I don't think that that's something that people talk enough about is like, how much. How much are you making? My other confessions are the help that I get, having a mother in law who lives with me, having childcare, having a husband who has a financial footing that sets us up to allow me to do things like only make $6,000 for my company, but work full time at it. So I just think that those are things that people don't talk enough about. And the reason it's so important for me to talk about that is I grew up working class. My dad works at the same paint store he's worked at my whole life. First person in my family to go to college. And I just. That is. That is the context that I come from. And I always felt so frustrated when people would give these latitudes of, oh, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and do all these different things. And I'm like, I just got lucky. There's so many smart, hardworking people that didn't get the luck or privilege. And so I just want to normalize having help in talking about that because I feel frustrated and I feel lonely when I see women on LinkedIn who are like, I'm crushing it. And here's how you can make $7 million in two days. And I'm like, is that real life, though? There's a whole universe behind that. That's, like, complicated, and it's not really a playbook. And it's like, a lot of different things lined up for that to happen, and it's not repeatable. So I don't know if I have one confession other than that is. That was a confession.

[00:41:32 - 00:42:02]
That is. It is. And that is so helpful. I saw, like a, you know, funny, like, meme type post on, I don't know, one social media talking about, you know, AI is great, but I don't need help writing I need help, like cleaning my home and cooking and stuff like that. And I feel like, to your point, like, those are the things that often we don't talk about but carry a huge weight for us and take up a lot of time and.

[00:42:02 - 00:42:06]
And the mental load. Just thinking about the thinking.

[00:42:06 - 00:42:36]
Yeah. So. And, yeah. Shouting. Shouting out to the people who do help and who are there. And, yeah, it's huge. I would love AI to come and clean my house or cook. Actually, Jess knows this about me. I do not cook. My husband does all the cooking, and if he's busy or not available, we're ordering in. So, I mean, I can. I can make good eggs, but that's about it. Yeah.

[00:42:36 - 00:42:38]
All right, Jennie, we can't be good at everything.

[00:42:38 - 00:43:06]
We can't. And we have to learn. I'm at a place now, my business, where I can afford to order in food if I don't want to cook. But that's obviously taken me. Me a long time to get there. And again, Jennie, to your point, like, we need to talk about these things. These are. This is the reality. And trying to paint this, like, external, picture perfect reality is only harmful to other people. So, yeah, yeah.

[00:43:06 - 00:43:16]
And it's not a way to build true connection. And if you don't have true connection, you can't run a company for eight years on word of mouth. So I think it's a good reminder for all of us. I always need that reminder. Stay vulnerable and stay. Stay honest. Yeah.

[00:43:16 - 00:43:17]
Yeah.

[00:43:17 - 00:43:21]
Love that. Where can our listeners connect with you?

[00:43:21 - 00:43:34]
Yeah. Please find me on LinkedIn. I'm on this LinkedIn train. I love it. It's so fun. That's where I'm spending my time. And then, as I mentioned earlier, I have tons of resources, freebies, masterclasses, all@wildawaitcreative.com wonderful.

[00:43:34 - 00:43:36]
Thank you so much.

[00:43:36 - 00:43:38]
So much, Jennie. Nice to meet you.

[00:43:38 - 00:43:41]
Nice to meet you all, too. Take care. Have a great day.

[00:43:44 - 00:43:55]
Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.

[00:43:55 - 00:44:03]
Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram Stories or LinkedIn profile and Tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.

[00:44:03 - 00:44:08]
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[00:44:08 - 00:44:14]
And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

[00:44:14 - 00:44:21]
And, of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

[00:44:21 - 00:44:28]
And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends. Remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

[00:44:28 - 00:44:29]
See you next time.