Speaking on stages with Julia Campbell
“I've been speaking for about 10 years. You know, I'm not a newbie at it. I think just being really clear about your boundaries and what you'll accept and not accept.’ – Julia Campbell
Julia Campbell is an OG nonprofit consultant and social media teaching maven. She has been in the nonprofit sector for over 13 years, and now works with clients one-on-one, speaks on stages, and runs online courses to empower nonprofit coaches and consultants. In this episode, Julia walks us through how she has built her own speaking business and shares her top tips on how you can leverage it for your own consulting business.
Highlights:
Pricing, negotiating and setting boundaries in your business
How to grow your speaking business like a pro
Business advise and resolutions for 2023
Connect with Julia:
Podcast: Nonprofit Nation
Email: julia@jcsocialmarketing.com
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/
The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
[00:00:03] Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house-nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.
[00:00:11] Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.
[00:00:20] Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale sell their own businesses past the six-figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
[00:00:30] Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
[00:00:52] Jess: No more gatekeeping. No more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
[00:01:11] Cindy: We'll listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
[00:01:28 ] Jess: You ready? Let's go.
[00:01:32] Cindy: Hey, Jess.
[00:01:33] Jess: Hi. I'm excited.
[00:01:35] Cindy: I'm so excited. We've dabbled in talking about stages before, but I feel like this conversation gets way deep. I think we would both call one of our sectors like most well-known speakers,
[00:01:54] Jess: Yes, I mean, an OG nonprofit consultant, for sure. The one is only Julia Campbell, the social media teaching maven. And I just feel like this is such a get for us.
[00:02:08] Cindy: Yes. And she is so generous with her transparency. I mean, everyone is. I love it, but I think this is a person where we would just be, like, looking from the outside. How does she do that? How is she so successful? And to share it all,
[00:02:25] Jess: She does, yes. So we don't want to take up any more of your time. Enjoy the episode, and let us know what you think.
[00:02:33] Jess: Hi, and welcome back to the Confession’s Podcast with Jess and Cindy. It's a real treat because we have a fellow Julia Campbell.
[00:02:41] Cindy: I know.
[00:02:44] Jess: And that is because we have the one and only Julia Campbell here with us to share about her business. Welcome to the show. Are you ready to get confessional?
[00:02:55] Julia: I'm very excited. It's really cool. I usually talk about nonprofit marketing on Facebook and should we be on Twitter and all that stuff. I'm so excited to actually talk business
[00:03:07] Julia: Yes, I know. which you have been at for a minute. So let's go back. Can you tell the folks listening a little bit about your business and maybe your journey to becoming an entrepreneur?
[00:03:18] Julia: Yes. I started my love of nonprofits. We're not really going to go back to middle school, but I really loved volunteering and working in after school clubs and always doing drives and things like that throughout high school. In college, I studied journalism, communications, and women's studies, and I volunteered at the rape crisis center, local shelters and things like that. And then I was a program director for a while at a teen center in Boston.
[00:03:52] Julia: After college, I served in the Peace Corps in Senegal, in West Africa, and that's where I really met a lot of nonprofit professionals, people that did this for a living. We did a lot of coordination around projects, fundraising, and development, and I thought, "Wow, I could actually make this a career." So when I came home, I worked at my alma mater, Boston University. So when I worked nine to five in the sector, I was a development director, a marketing director, and a director of all things director, several times for several different organizations.
[00:04:30] Julia: But my entrepreneurship journey started in 2008. We all know the lovely economic crash of 2008. I was laid off. I was eight months pregnant with my daughter, who is now 13, and I did not know what I was going to do. My husband thankfully kept his job, and we were very lucky as compared to some other people. But I went on Craigslist, this is when you could still kind of go on Craigslist for things that were legit. And I found a bunch of freelance jobs because I love writing. I've always been a storyteller at heart, and I've always thought that nonprofits could really do a much better job with their grant writing.
[00:05:20] Julia: So I saw a lot of freelance jobs around grant writing, so I kind of pieced that together. Then I thought, "Oh, I was younger then." So people kept asking me, "What's this Facebook? What is this LinkedIn? What is this social media? What's this email marketing? Do we need to be doing this?" So I got really interested in the ways that nonprofits could use these tools to do good and reach their audiences. And the business I have today is completely different than the business I had about 13 years ago. But it all started out with piecing together freelance opportunities, and now I work with clients one on one. I do a lot of speaking, and I have some online courses that I run and affiliate marketing that I do. So it's really like having multiple streams of revenue, but it's always a journey. I'm always learning and doing new things, but that's really what I do.
[00:06:29] Cindy: Amazing. And we love the nitty-gritty details. So do you have a sense of how much of your business comes from each of those different revenue streams?
[00:06:40] Julia: Yeah, every year is different, but it really is evenly split. Well, I mean, I guess I would. It's probably not evenly split, actually, I would say 30, probably 30, 35% comes from consulting any given year. You know, another third could come from online courses, and then depending on the year, I mean, obviously, 2020 and 2021 were very different years for me for speaking but it's pretty evenly split between the three. And the consulting really ranges from audits and assessments that I do with clients around digital marketing and social media. So I look at what they're currently doing and kind of rip it to shreds a little bit, which is pretty often the case, and then give them some concrete recommendations for moving forward based on, of course, their capacity and their budget. And if they have one person, if they have five people,
[00:07:47] Julia: And then I do campaign planning. So I work with government agencies and nonprofits on either marketing or digital fundraising campaigns, which is kind of soup to nuts. Some range from three months to six months. I have one campaign I'm working on right now that's really only going to be a month because they didn't really get their act together. And I love them if they're listening. But it totally does depend. But it really is evenly, I think. I'm evenly split between those three things.
[00:08:22] Julia: And I've written two books, and people are always like, "Well, what is that part of your revenue?" And it's like, "No, you don't really make money from books unless you are JK Rowling." It's kind of negligible money that I put in a pot, and it's wonderful, and I love it. And anyone that has purchased my book. I thank you, but I didn't go into that knowing that that was going to be my bread and butter at all.
[00:08:50:] Jess: Totally. And so, could you tell us a little bit about how you price each of these services? So you mentioned your one-on-one clients. Are those like project based, or is that retainer you mentioned speaking on stages? Is it that you have a set fee because you're on a lot of stages. If I am to rapid fire names, three to five people who I think are on stages, you are right up there alongside Kisshana and you too, Cindy.
[00:09:21] Jess: So I am curious if you're able to command your prices versus the conferences telling you what their prices are. And then you mentioned courses, which I know are a really attractive item for people, but people often don't understand how much work actually requires them. So tell us the numbers if you're comfortable.
[00:09:44] Julia: Well, let's start with courses, because I actually agree with you, course that everyone and their grandmother are selling courses to make courses or to sell courses. So for me, what I did is I spent years building my audience. I didn't launch a course until I'd probably been in business for nine years.
[00:10:09] Julia: Actually, I launched my course in February 2020. Fantastic time. It was a great time to launch a course, actually. And we all sort of nursed each other through COVID because I deliver my courses live, I don't pre-record them. And then I sell recordings of several different courses. But my main signature courses, like my social media for Social Good Academy, I deliver live over six weeks.
[00:10:36] Julia: So I spent years and years and years really just building up an audience before I sold them anything. Actually, other than consulting and speaking, I had never sold them a webinar. I worked with CharityHowTo for a while, but I never really marketed online courses or webinars until I don't know why it took me so long.
[00:11:00] Julia: And then I listened to a lot of podcasts, read a lot of books. And I did take Amy Porterfield Digital Course Academy, which was a huge investment for me at the time, but it actually really paid off because it kind of kicked me in the butt. And I was like, "Okay, if I don't make this money back, I'm going to really regret it." Also, I've been wanting to do it for so long, and you know how it is. It's just that you've got imposter syndrome and you think it's nonprofits. They're not going to buy anything. They're not going to invest. They're not going to do this. They have to have a grant to get this. It takes forever for them to get approval for professional development. So I had all of these thoughts around it, and I don't remember the course price when I launched it. I think it was like $197. And that was six weeks of live training, live Q&A, and access to me, and it was just not enough. I still don't think I charge enough. This past year, I charged $397, and actually, it's now been four weeks with one week of implementation. And this coming year, I'm probably going to up the price even more because of the access to me, the Q&A, and also just because of the results that my clients have gotten.
[00:12:23] Julia: And then I have a course called ‘Storytelling that Sticks,’ same kind of model. I run it in the middle of the year, and the digital fundraising formula, which I run at the end of the year. So I'm not one of those people that can take their signature offer. They can run with it. And I know that's so important, and I just feel like I just want to do a lot of different things. It's been working for me. And I do have a lot of people repeating that they're taking multiple courses.
[00:12:56] Julia: So the course thing, what I would say to other people, learn a lot about it. I mean, just start reading. Go back if you can go back to the Amy Porterfield podcast archives and listen to the older ones, now she's doing all this stuff around mindset, which I think is fine. But the older episodes are really tactical. How to build your audience. Five things to do before you start a course, like how to set it up and how to really create it. That's how to test your idea so that you know that it's valuable. All of that was really helpful because what you don't want to do is create something that nobody wants. And that's sort of what I was really scared of, and that's why I didn't do it for years until I really had sort of proven the concept. So that's courses and then–
[00:13:52] Julia: Really quick just to ask. So I follow you across all channels, and I'm just curious, as someone that works so hard to build her audience, are you mostly marketing and selling this through your email list, or is it from stage? because I don't really see you selling that much.
[00:14:08] Julia: No, I really am terrible at selling. I'm horrible about selling. Also, for someone that teaches and coaches social media, I've been disillusioned. with sales from social media. It's very valuable for me to connect with my audience and build some sort of thought leadership, but actual sales from social media I haven't really found to be as effective. So it's mostly email. I would say it's mostly email. And then for these courses, I'll do a webinar, I'll do a couple of webinars, and now I have my podcast selling mostly via email, via the podcast and via webinars, like free webinars. But yeah, I know there's so much more that I think I could probably do that I don't do, but--
[00:15:04] Cindy: Well, I mean, I think we all have. Everyone feels that way. Okay, before I keep going on other things as well, I want to ask you about the price of your course. I think you said like, $397 or something.
[00:15:19] Julia: I just made it up, by the way. I just made it up,
[00:15:22] Cindy: But I feel like there's a big pressure to charge around $1,000. So how did you get.. I feel like everyone keeps saying we need to, you know, have premium pricing, etc. especially for online courses. What made you decide to stay in the hundreds or under $500, and how do you feel about this decision?
[00:15:49] Julia: I don't know. I really think that I've just been upping and upping and upping it, slowly but surely, and definitely this year the price could change, but I don't know, maybe it's a mindset thing because it's so much harder for small nonprofits. I think they definitely could find like $1,000 or $2,000 for sure. But for me, I think I wanted to reach more people with the course.
[00:16:24] Julia: And also, when I started, it was a beta test, and now I've done three cohorts, so I think it's pretty tested, it's gotten proven results, and I can definitely raise the price. But no, I think that's a great question. Anytime you're talking about pricing, you do have to talk about the value rather than sort of the hours committed. You have to talk about the journey, what they get, and what they end up with at the end. I just don't really have an answer, but for me, that was I felt comfortable with, but where, who was I listening to? It might have been Denise Tofield Thomas. Who was they lis– Oh my gosh. I don't know who I was listening to about pricing. Who was Rachel Rogers? Someone said you need to put the price up to where you almost feel ill. Or you almost feel like, "Oh no, I can't do that." But I didn't. I didn't do that. Cause I thought, "Okay, I don't know if I want to feel ill about the price." But yeah, it's just such an arbitrary thing, and I think it's just very interesting to me.
[00:17:39] Julia: And also because I do want people to take multiple courses with me, and usually the course will lead to either one-on-one engagement or some other type of engagement, like a speaking engagement or something like that.
[00:17:55] Jess: Okay. Julia, we are back for another round of rapid-fire questions. Are you ready to play?
[00:18:00] Julia: Yes.
[00:18:01] Jess: Okay, great. So I know you host the Nonprofit Nation podcast. Who is your number one guest yet in 23?
[00:18:10] Julia: Oh, I don't want to say that. Oh my guest that I wanna get?
[00:18:18] Cindy: Yes,
[0:18:18] Julia: Oh, Seth Godin, goes without a question.
[00:18:20] Jess: Oh, well, I feel like we can make that happen.
[00:18:22] Julia: I think we can make it happen.
[00:18:24] Jess: Yes. Okay. As far as stages go, what is your favorite stage to speak on?
[00:18:32] Julia: I love speaking at the Nonprofit Technology Conference held by N10. It's just like nerds and tech people, and just amazing change-makers and innovators.
[00:18:45] Jess: So I follow you on social media, and you always seem to be having the most fun when you're doing parades and you're out with friends. So what is Julia Campbell's favorite way to spend a weekend?
[00:19:00] Julia: Oh, my gosh. Well, I would love to say that I would love to spend time with my children. I spend a lot of time with my children, but it's probably with my friends going to a drag show and then spending a day at a pool.
[00:19:18] Julia: Love it. I love it. I love it so much. Thank you for playing.
[00:19:23] Jess: And I also think for courses, especially once after the content is created, it feels like, "Well, this is already done. Why do I need to keep upping the price or whatever," you know? So I totally understand. I have not cracked the pricing code as well. In fact, every time I'm leaned about to price something, I'll send it to either Cindy or Rachel, and I'll be like, "What would you price this at?" because there a lot more and I don't even know what the word is. Compared to me—
[00:19:59] Julia: Aggressive? Which is not a bad word.
[00:20:00] Jess: It's aggressive, but, honestly, I would give everything away for free. I made that point. This is not a hobby, this is a business.
[00:20:10] Julia: Oh, I love that, because I think that's such an important point. And that's what I did for years and years and years, and then eventually started to say, "Oh, like I really need to amp up what I'm doing." I don't give my consulting away for free, but everything else I was giving away for free. And I really agree with that. I think. If I had my way, you know, if I was Tanya from—well, I don't wanna be Tanya anymore from the White Lotus—I would just give away everything for free. But yeah, we've got to feed our kids. And also, I'm sure that both of you know this giving things for free. People don't execute, they don't implement, and they don't take it as seriously as if they pay that premium price.
[00:20:56] Julia: I'm just thinking of myself with that course that I took. This year when I took it was only $2,000. I think it might be three now, and that might sound like a horrific amount of money to people, but I've made that back times... I don't even know... maybe 20 or something like that. So, I believe in the power of investment, but I also completely understand how hard it is to adequately price things ‘cause I struggle, I struggle with that all the time. So we could go on.. We could talk about paid speaking and consulting. Let's be all over the map.
[00:21:32] Cindy: Let’s keep going
[00:21:32] Julia: Okay,
[00:23:34] Cindy: I'd love, I mean, I feel like speaking is one of consulting. There's more transparency. Speaking is one of those things that just feels all over the place. So tell us about your experience with that. I'm curious, because I feel like you've sort of made strategic investments in yourself. Is this something you sort of fell into or decided you wanted to do and invested in training? How did you become so awesome at it?
[00:22:04] Juliua: Oh, thank you. Oh, okay. Well, my most powerful moment that I had, the thing that changed everything, was when... I don't remember the year. Oh my gosh. The Boys and Girls Club National Conference hired me to speak, they paid me to come to San Diego, and they paid me $3,000 to give a breakout session. And I honestly don't remember what year this was, like 2017 or 2018. And Beth Canter was there, and I consider her my... her and John Hayden were both my mentors. And Beth and I, and she was so generous because her mother had just passed away, and I could tell she was not in the mood to have her brain picked at all. And she took me to have a drink, and she said, "Look, you're going to start out and save $5,000, that's what you're going to do." I'm gonna send you all of my speaking templates and agreements. And you can pull from them. You can take from them whatever you want. Also, by the way, send me your speaking agreement, and I'll take a look at it.
[00:23:21] Juliua: I mean, completely. The generosity blew my mind. So now I do that. I will do that for people because that just helped me because I really was starting from scratch. I had these, and The Boys and Girls Club contacted me. I had no idea what I was even doing. I knew about the speaking, but I didn't know about the negotiation side of it. So, yeah, I mean, now that I start, well, I guess it depends. So a keynote would be between $5,000 and $6,000, and that's just where I start.
[00:23:59] Julia: There's a conference in Australia that's flying me there in May, and they're paying me half of that, but they're paying for the flight and the hotel, and I'm going to Australia. So it's sort of like—you know what I mean? It's sort of like, "Well, am I really going to be a stickler in that way?" No, but yeah, I mean, if it's a keynote address if it's something where I'm speaking to a room of 200 or 250 people, then yeah, I think there has to be a pretty big price tag on that. I mean, imagine what Seth Godin charges and Rene Brah.., forget it.
[00:24:34] Julia: So I think there are speakers out there, specifically male speakers, that probably charge a lot more, but I also got this advice from Kisshhana, who is also, I think, one of the shining examples in the sector. You know, it's your intellectual property. They're also paying you as a draw. They're putting you on their promotional materials, and you're going to promote it to your audience. You're going to tell people that you're speaking. So the value added to the event organizer is huge. That's usually where I start.
[00:25:12] Julia: Now, if it's virtual, it's a little bit different. We'll probably negotiate because, if I don't have to travel, then it's different, a breakout session. Maybe, we could start at $2,500, but I really like to travel as you know, it's a day on each end. I'm not working. I don't work when I travel. I can't do it. I check email. I can't do the deep work when I travel. I read books, mostly I just binge television because I'm away from my kids and my husband, and I just have a night in a hotel room for two nights. So it's really like thinking that it's only that hour that you spend speaking when it's really the preparation, the promotion, the travel, and just the time it takes. So I've been trying to be really picky.
[00:26:10] Julia: Now. I had a conference contact me for 2023 in a different state, and I would have to get on a flight, and they quoted me $500, and I was like, "No, I'm sorry," and I said, you know, "I will contact, I will try to set you up with someone that's a little less seasoned." I've been doing this, I've been speaking for about 10 years. You know, I'm not a newbie at it. I think just being really clear about your boundaries and what you'll accept and not accept.
[00:26:40] Julia: Now, that being said, of course, something like the AFP ICON, the International Conference of Fundraising, doesn't pay anybody, which is whatever. I mean, I dunno, how many speakers, That I see as an investment in my business. I really do, because I have gotten clients from there. I have gotten core students from there. I've sold books there. People know me. It's just like an investment in my business, and that's just how I see it. So. But, that's probably the only conference that I would go to just because I see it as a networking event. All a lot of my podcast sponsors are there, you know, all the boomerangs and the neon ones, and all of these amazing people that I've made these incredible connections with over the years. That's really where they are.
[00:27:38] Julia: So for me, I weigh every opportunity. I just kind of weigh it on a scale.. oh, is it in June? June is a super busy month because of school and camps and the end of the year, or is it like October, which is my busiest month for some reason. So you gotta figure out when things are and how to do it. But I think I agree with you. I think we all need to be more open about what we're charging and just really be just say you know, this is the investment in having me come and if it's gonna be $500, then no. If it's gonna be a couple thousand dollars or a thousand dollars less, then can we talk? Maybe I could, and maybe you could buy some of my books. Maybe there are other things that you could do. So, for me, it's not a perfect science, but and that's a very long, very long answer.
[00:28:32] Jess: No. Well, I have two follow-up, sequential questions. So, my first question is, how much effort is going into your pitching opportunities versus them coming to you because that's a whole other additional added layer of work if you're out there pitching. And then I also know that you now host a virtual conference for social media. And I'm curious, as a fellow virtual conference host, what your opinion is in terms of joining other people's stages versus building your own stage and the ROI between the two. Because I've actually decided I'm just gonna build my own stage versus spend a lot of effort going to other people's stages. But I actually think that, in the long run, it will pay off, but the upfront is way more work. I mean, you know, so anyways, I'd love to know about those two things.
[00:29:27] Julia: What was the first thing?
[00:29:29] Cindy: The first thing was how much are you pitching?
[00:29:31] Julia: Oh, how much are you pitching? And then talk about the summit. I really rarely pitch, so I find that if you're pitching, it's hard. If you're submitting a bunch of RFPs for speaking, it's usually the conferences that aren't going to pay you. So, obviously, with the ICON, I would submit and pitch that one. I'm sorry. When's the last time I did?
[00:29:59] Jess: Was it always like that? Because I’m...
[00:30:01] Julia: No, no. Oh, no, no. Well, such a slow burn.
[00:30:06] Jess: How the heck am I going to break into this?
[00:30:06] Julia: Oh, no, I spoke for free literally everywhere all the time. I was thinking, I spoke at little, tiny Chamber of Commerce events. I spoke at the League of Women Voters and then my very first, like I felt like a big, big event. I spoke at the Massachusetts Nonprofit Network conference, unpaid, but it was in front of 50 people. Then I started... I don't know, I just started. That's when I was really pitching at the beginning. Pitching any local AFP chapter, any non-profit network. In Boston, there's philanthropy, Massachusetts, there's the Boston Foundation. Just pitching them and saying, "I have this great talk that I do on social media, and you know, I'll come in and do it for free." And I mean, everyone wants something for free. And I don't know, that's just how it started.
[00:31:02] Julia: The other way that I really built my speaking business was through webinars, which is so weird to say, but I used to do free webinars. I kind of still do occasionally, but free webinars through you name the software company, I have definitely done a webinar for them, if they are a fundraising CRM or a donation platform, I have done some kind of webinar for them, and then people would reach out and say, "Oh, I love your webinar. I need you to come talk to my chapter, my AFP chapter, or my association conference."
[00:31:44] Julia: So it just really was, I feel like in the first few years, it was a lot of hustle and free work, just getting my name out there and doing that. And it was hard, but it's definitely now kind of paid off because now. When people see you're doing paid speaking, like I did for the keynote at Plan of Philanthropy, or they see that, they'll say, "Oh, we need you to come to our chapter, but we know it's probably not going to be free." So I wish there was like a formula, but it was just, it was a lot of webinars. I wrote a weekly blog for about 10 years. It had a lot of followers. It's pretty much organic growth, but I'm also making these connections at conferences like Beth Canter, you know, would recommend me to speakers like John Hayden. Now, you know, Joan Gary is a friend of mine. So really like putting yourself out there and not being afraid, like, I'm just thinking Amy Eisenstein was such a huge person in the beginning, Mark Pittman is amazing and has recommended me, and then recommending them back, there's just so many ways to do it, but it is challenging, and I get a lot of questions about that.
[00:33:13] Julia: And I think you have to have a topic that's maybe a little bit out of the ordinary. I'm looking at Mallory Erickson and what she's doing right now with the... I'm gonna mess it up. It's like the psychology of donors. Is that right, Cindy?
[00:33:31] Cindy: It's like a fundraising mindset. Yeah.
[00:30:34] Julia: So it's a little bit different than what a lot of people are talking about. Also, her social media is life goals. By the way, I don't even use social media as well as she does. Also, Jessica, you do, oh my gosh, you guys write these amazing updates on Instagram and meanwhile I'm just playing with the Lensa app and like posting avatars, but I think that's a great way to do it too. People have found me on LinkedIn and said, "Oh, you know, I didn't know you spoke on this topic and had a conference." There are, okay. The other thing that I will say about pitching, and I could really, honestly talk about this for hours, so you have to cut me off, but I have a folder of places to pitch.
[00:34:25] Julia: I look at what other consultants are doing. I know if Kishshana is speaking there, it is not free, they're paying her. I know if Mark Pittman is speaking there, not free. I know if Joan Gary is speaking there. So I follow a lot of these other consultants and I look at where they're speaking and I haven't done that. I haven't done that as well this year as I would like to, but I would offer my name and be like, "Hey, I know I saw you had this other speaker, and you know, I've been doing national philanthropy days across the country, I'd love to come in and give a talk about this." So I think if you look at speakers that you know are definitely getting paid and just see where they're speaking, and then try to contact or try to make it in ask them to introduce you if you feel comfortable with that. Like certainly, if I saw Beth speaking at a conference, I would say, "Hey Beth, introduce me to those people. So that's a really great way not just to kind of blind pitch a conference but also to know that they have the budget, you know? It's not much to pay somebody. the thing with, and then you want me to talk about it.
[00:35:34] Cindy: Before you talk about the Summit story, Jess, I'm taking—I wanna, you're doing it again. Just you, I know you mentioned, sort of having a unique spin or unique topic I wanna know about repurposing content. If you're speaking that often, I can't imagine you're doing unique sessions every time. So I want to ask about that. But maybe then we can go back to your stage versus someone else's.
[00:36:08] Julia: I would say to have a couple of talks that are new every year, and certainly for the free webinars. I have two webinars that, if someone calls me and they're like, "I want a free webinar," you know, this is the webinar that I'll do and update it. But yeah, you're right. You don't want to reinvent the wheel every time. I think for my keynotes, I wouldn't say I reinvent the wheel, but I definitely tweak them depending on the audience. Like if it's an association, if it's fundraisers, if it's marketers, if it's, you know, accountants before about digital marketing, so it does depend on the audience, but the principles and the pillars of what you talk about should always be the same thing. You can't, there's no way you cannot create a brand new talk every time.
[00:37:00] Julia: But what I like to do is every year, I kind of refresh what I'm doing, take a look at what I'm doing, and then really try to update it with specific examples for that audience, but definitely repurposing content, It is huge. And then sometimes you might get a client that says this has to be 100 percent unique. And I've never gotten that, but I think I've heard of that. So you know, and it's not like if you are in New Jersey and you're giving the keynote and then you're flying to San Diego and giving a keynote that anyone's going to. No.
[00:37:40] Julia: And the other thing that I think on this topic is the more you talk about the same topic, the better you get at it, and the more refined it becomes. So if you're reinventing the wheel with every webinar, you're never going to get in your groove, you're never going to get acclimated. So I feel like sometimes I'm kind of bored. I'm like, "Okay." The four pillars of social media marketing are storytelling. I get bored of it. I'm a little bit, but everybody else is like, "Oh my God, this is so amazing, I've never heard this before, this is awesome." So that re-energizes me around a topic, and I know the two of you know this, it's like you've been talking about it forever and every single time. But this audience is so new and has never heard it before. And even if they've heard it, they can hear it a few times because we don't absorb information that quickly.
[00:38:33:] Cindy: No, we don't.
[00:38:33] Julia: So that's a great question.
[00:38:36] Jess: I just have to say for anyone's listening, so, I think there were 25 of us nonprofit consultants who hosted this Black Friday bundle, which Julia, next year, I'm getting you,
[00:38:47] Julia: Yes, and I saw it. I saw it.
[00:38:49] Jess: Literally, it was everywhere. It was across the Internet. Yes. And I probably had 14 people the day after it closed reach out and be like, "Ah, can I get that? I missed that.'' And you were like, ‘’How is that possible?’’ Yeah, that you missed the deadline. It's insane. But to just your point, they can hear it a few times and often need to.
[00:39:12] Julia: Oh, I definitely need to. And I love that they hear it from all different places.
[00:39:15] Cindy: That's what I'm saying.
[00:39:16] Julia: Exactly.
[00:39:18] Jess: Before we move on to the stage question, you've said webinar at least a dozen times. So do you think that webinars are dead?
[00:39:26] Julia: I don't think webinars are dead at all. I think you need a really great topic, and it needs to be a good webinar. I mean, I dunno what else to say. I definitely think that attendance is way down. I would give a webinar in one and it would get 1,500 registrations, I think in 2020 now, it’s 500. It's like a good number, show up rate is also really low. So, I don't know if that's the trend now. But I do still think that webinars are a powerful tool. If they can be succinct and have practical takeaways, I just don't like webinars that are all salesy or that are literally 20 minutes of fluff. I like to get right down. I just think they all should be half an hour. Actually this 90, 60 minute who has 60 minutes, no one does.
[00:40:24] Julia: So I think maybe this should be a little bit shorter now. But I still think I get a lot of value from them if they're well done and well managed, which unfortunately a lot of them are not. But, I wouldn't say that they're dead. I don't know. It's just hard to tell what's going to happen in the next few years. definitely, they're not as powerful, and their show-up rate is not as high.
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[00:40:49] Jess: Yeah. Okay. So let's now talk quickly about your thoughts on building your own stage versus attaching yourself to other audiences, and maybe the pros and cons of both.
[00:41:59] Julia: Oh, this is such a great question. Oh my gosh. So I do the nonprofit social media summit in November. I'm partnering with Neon One, and I love coordinating that particular summit. I don't feel like it's all about me, but yeah, of course your name is on it, and you are cultivating the speakers and the agenda very carefully. And then, I get asked to speak at so many summits. Normally, I say yes, but sometimes I really regret it because I think 30 billion emails later, some summits require you to send out a bunch of emails even if you're not getting paid. First of all, I never do that, and I'm probably the worst summit speaker of all time. I will do like a social media post. I'll post it that day. I might put it in my newsletter. And I'll speak at the summit. I will, and I think that in 2023, I'm really going to have to cut that down, and that's another case-by-case basis. It all depends on whether you like it or not. I guess it depends on whether it's something I'm very interested in. It depends on who's asking me, but I never come at it from an ROI standpoint, which I guess I should.
[00:42:26] Julia: I usually ask, "Can I promote something? Can I promote a lead magnet?'' I know I'm not going to get access to the email list. I don't know how many summits I attended this past year. I did so many summits. It just seems like a lot of people are having summits and they need speakers, obviously, so I don't really have a hard and fast rule. I just need to be better about fully weighing the pros and cons of the people like you're saying that I'm attaching my brand to. And it's funny because actually Tim told me about it, told me this. [crosstalk] I don't know his new name. I don't know his new title.''
[00:43:19] Cindy: He's just brand...
[00:43:22] Julia: He's like the brand. Oh, oh my gosh.
[00:43:25] Cindy: It's not a brand ambassador, [crosstalk]
[00:43:28] Julia: Well, when I met him as director of partnerships, and like I said, is a huge partner of mine, he really was saying, "You can't spread yourself everywhere." Like me, you need to focus. and I agree with that. And I totally think that's true, and I think that in 2023, I will need to start focusing more on my own brand, my own offerings, because like you say, Jessica, if you are part of a summit, everyone wants you to have their affiliate link and send out the affiliate link. I think of the number of things I'm an affiliate for, if I just drilled down and was an affiliate for like two things, I could probably do that really, really well.
[00:44:10] Julia: So 2023 for me and the new year and just in the next six months in general, is really gonna be about streamlining like partnerships. Figuring out how not to give away the store for free, and then where can I make the most impact, not just for nonprofits, but for me and my business. So I would love any advice on this. Well, I do not do a great job saying "No." I'm terrible at saying no
[00:44:40] Cindy: You know what? I think that's right. Yeah, part of our sector, but that leads me to sort of our final question. Because we could talk literally for days. Sad that we don't have more time, but I wanna ask you, we, our favorite question is a confessions question, and you kinda alluded to this in terms of what's one thing you wanna get better at in your business?
[00:45:12] Julia: I want to get better at delegating. I have no employees. I have been doing this for 13 years. And I do have a bookkeeper, people that edit my podcast, someone I work with, graphic design, and all that kind of stuff. But I really think it's time. I mean, people will be shocked to hear, they are always shocked to hear that I don't have one, and it's not a badge of honor at all. And just stop thinking that I have to do absolutely everything to be successful, which is clearly not the case. So I think I need to be much better. Just even in my house, even in the way I deal with family members and the way I deal with personal life things, but especially in my business, I need to be better about delegating.
[00:46:11] Cindy: Amazing.
[00:46:11] Jess: Perfect [crosstalk]
[00:46:14] Julia: Yes.
[00:46:16] Cindy: Where can our listeners connect with you? And also, I know you're working on something about speaking and helping other people, so now would be a good time to mention that too.
[00:46:29] Julia: Yes. So of course, I mean, it's not very formulated, but I'm on the Slack channel, which I'm sure a lot of your listeners are in. And if you email me, my email is julia@jcsocialmarketing.com. I am creating an offer to help you develop your paid speaking offer, your pitch and sort of all the documents that you need. But yeah, jcsocialmarketing.com and my podcast is Nonprofit Nations. So just look up Nonprofit Nations wherever you're listening to this podcast.
[00:47:06] Cindy: Beautiful. Thank you. You're amazing.
[00:47:10] Jess: Thank you so much, Julia.
[00:47:11] Julia: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:47:13] Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions Podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
[00:47:25] Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy enough so we can repost you.
[00:47:33] Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit culture consultant.
[00:47:37] Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so that we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.
[00:47:44] Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.
[00:47:51] Jess: And to our fellow non-profit coaching and consulting friends, remember we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.
[00:47:59] Cindy: See you next time.