$15K Minimum: How Kel Haney Raised Her Consulting Rates (And Got Clients to Say Yes)
I coach people on how to make asks. I knew to not hold on tightly to the outcome. I coach my clients to focus on the forest. That is the relationship as opposed to the tree. That is this particular conversation. It took me a little while to learn that. - Kel Haney
$15K Minimum: How Kel Haney Raised Her Consulting Rates (And Got Clients to Say Yes)
Ever wonder how some consultants seem to effortlessly land high-paying clients while you're still struggling to break the $5K mark? This week's guest, Kel Haney, spills the tea on her journey from theater director to six-figure fundraising consultant.
Kel shares how she transitioned from a 20-year career in theater to becoming a sought-after fundraising consultant, specializing in mid-level donors and her signature "5-minute fundraising ask." She candidly discusses her initial resistance to networking, her mindset shifts around pricing, and how she learned to articulate her unique value proposition.
But here's the kicker: Kel reveals how she went from charging $30-50 an hour to a $15K minimum for her consulting packages. And spoiler alert: clients are saying yes!
We dive into the nitty-gritty of Kel's business model, including how she structures her offers, her approach to business development (hint: it's all about relationships), and why she's committed to keeping her business lean and mean.
Kel also shares her secret weapon for staying motivated during the less-than-glamorous parts of running a business. Let's just say it involves a green visor and a healthy dose of playfulness.
Key Takeaways:
Clarity is queen: Kel's business took off when she got crystal clear on her niche and how to articulate it. Take the time to refine your messaging – it pays off.
Invest in yourself: Kel credits her rapid success to investing in coaching and professional development. It's not an expense, it's a fast pass to success.
Relationship-building trumps cold outreach: Kel's high-ticket clients come from nurturing her network and being genuinely curious about people's needs.
Keep it lean: By maintaining low overhead, Kel maximizes her profit margins and gives herself more flexibility in her business.
Don't be afraid to raise your rates: Kel's story proves that when you offer unique value, clients are willing to pay premium prices. Know your worth and price accordingly.
[00:00:00 - 00:02:26] Introduction of Kel Haney and her expertise in fundraising consulting.
[00:02:26 - 00:10:57] Kel's background story: Her transition from a 20-year career as a theater director to fundraising consulting. She discusses her initial goals of becoming a thought leader and how working with Cindy helped her focus on building her business first.
[00:10:57 - 00:15:32] Discussion of Kel's business model: Her pricing structure ($15K minimum for initial engagements, $3K-$7K/month for retainers), and how she articulates her unique value proposition around mid-level donors and "5-minute fundraising asks."
[00:15:32 - 00:22:32] Kel's approach to business development: Emphasizes relationship-building and networking over cold outreach. She shares how she uses LinkedIn content to stay top-of-mind with potential clients.
[00:22:37 - 00:25:19] Quick-fire questions: Kel shares about her life on an island in Maine, her next big celebration plans, and her favorite LinkedIn follows.
[00:25:22 - 00:33:34] Deep dive into Kel's business development strategy: She discusses how she overcame initial resistance to networking and learned to identify potential clients during initial meetings.
[00:33:35 - 00:39:01] Kel's goal-setting and "gamification" approach to her business: How she tracks progress visually and celebrates milestones.
[00:39:01 - 00:43:59] Discussion of Kel's investment in professional development: She talks about working with coaches and viewing it as a "fast pass" to success.
[00:43:59 - 00:49:43] Kel's approach to keeping her business lean: She discusses her focus on maximizing profit margins and being intentional about growth.
[00:49:44 - 00:52:00] Kel's "confessions": She shares about wearing an accountant's visor when doing bookkeeping and her ongoing work to balance ambition with enjoying the present.
[00:52:01 - 00:52:34] Wrap-up and how listeners can connect with Kel.
Connect with Kel:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kel-haney
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/
Transcript:
[00:00:00 - 00:00:03]Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
[00:00:03 - 00:00:11]And I'm Jess Campbell. Where two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.
[00:00:11 - 00:00:20]After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and lived to see what sticks.
[00:00:20 - 00:00:30]We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
[00:00:30 - 00:00:51]Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
[00:00:51 - 00:01:10]No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. We're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
[00:01:11 - 00:01:27]Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly. When it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
[00:01:28 - 00:01:30]You ready? Let's go.
[00:01:31 - 00:01:32]Hey, jaz.
[00:01:32 - 00:01:33]Hello.
[00:01:33 - 00:01:36]I feel like we need one of these. Can you hear this drum roll?
[00:01:36 - 00:01:37]No, can't hear it.
[00:01:37 - 00:01:38]All.
[00:01:41 - 00:01:56]The background noise. That is a drum roll. Because today, we've actually mentioned this person on the podcast before because she's like a dream client of both of ours and just.
[00:01:56 - 00:01:58]Well, she's just killing it.
[00:01:58 - 00:01:58]Yeah.
[00:01:58 - 00:01:59]Yeah.
[00:01:59 - 00:02:01]So I feel like. Without further ado.
[00:02:01 - 00:02:03]Without further ado. For real.
[00:02:03 - 00:02:10]Drum roll. It's our pleasure to introduce KelHaney from Kelhany Consulting.
[00:02:10 - 00:02:12]And the crowd goes wild.
[00:02:16 - 00:02:26]We're gonna make blush by the end of today because we are just gonna gush all about her amazing work. So, kel, welcome to the podcast.
[00:02:26 - 00:02:41]Hi, friends. I just need to just bottle you two as hype women for every moment of my life, ever. I'm absolutely a huge fan and avid student of confessions. I truly have listened to every episode. Look at this happening. Love it.
[00:02:41 - 00:02:52]I mean, you talk about bottling the hype within from the person who sends Jess and I little love notes. I love this episode. We need to take you everywhere, so I know the feeling.
[00:02:52 - 00:03:21]I've been thinking about that there's actually two people I can think of, you're one and Sarah Roife is another one. And you are people who say the positive, nice thing out loud. Nine times out of ten, people would just internalize that and keep that to themselves. But you are the person that will send a voice memo, send a DM, send a text, send an email, and it's really appreciated. And I hope that that's contributing to all the success you've had. It's coming back full service.
[00:03:21 - 00:03:22]It's all connected.
[00:03:23 - 00:03:23]It's all connected.
[00:03:24 - 00:03:24]It's all wonderful.
[00:03:26 - 00:03:33]All right, like, where do we begin? Because, well, first, let's tell the fine folks, what do you do and how do you get paid?
[00:03:33 - 00:03:52]Sure. So I'm a fundraising consultant, coach, trainer and speaker. I focus specifically on helping not for profits build and maintain their mid level donors, most specifically through five minute fundraising asks over the phone.
[00:03:53 - 00:04:56]Brilliant. Can we just tell the story, Cindy? Cindy and I were in Brooklyn taking the. I was going to call it the two, but that's a totally different city. Taking the subway to JFK for a very early flight. And we were talking about Cindy and her clients and the success people have had. And she. We had just had dinner with you in New York, and Cindy broke down, like, the five minute ask concept. I don't think I had heard that yet as, like, part of your work. And I was like, brilliant. Like, she's going to hit seven figures so freaking fast. Like, it was so clear and niche and helpful, and I was just like, she's off. And Sandut was like, I don't know. Watch. Watch and learn, people. Watch and learn. So my first question to you is, like, how did you get there? Do you know how long that normally takes people in small businesses? Like, how did you get there?
[00:04:56 - 00:10:57]Yeah, I mean. I mean, Sydney's been a big part of that. So this is going to be a mutual love fest going back and forth, but basically, you know, I was a theater director for 20 years, so what I was doing on the side for a majority of that is I was fundraising over the phone to support my directing career. So I had no idea. This all started as, quote, unquote, making little, quote, signs my dirty little secret as a theater director, because I came up in a moment where it was really about privilege and about not admitting or sharing that you had to do something else to supplement your income. So here I was raising truly millions of dollars over the phone for a theater I thought I wanted to run someday. And I was talking about it with absolutely nobody. It's just kind of wild that I had this superpower, and I wasn't sharing it. And slowly that then became a. Went from being like a survival job, a side hustle, to being a parallel career. And I thought I was going to be a artistic director, like a leader, and that what was going to fuel me was that I was such a good fundraiser because I personally raised over $6 million in less than eight years, almost totally under, with donations under 2000 and usds. And I also. It was just really pretty fantastic because I made well over 20,000 asks. I probably made closer to 40,000 asks, but that feels so ridiculous that in my marketing materials, I say over 20,000 asks. When the pandemic hit, I started fundraising full time, just truly, because theater was closed. And I quickly realized that I actually was happier not doing my favorite thing. Super weird. I think it would have taken me another ten to 20 years. I don't know. I think other people feel like that, that the pandemic and the shutdown really accelerated things that were already happening in their lives. And I just realized that I had been really building my life to support my career, as opposed to my career to support my life. And so suddenly, I got to watch. I was living in New York City. I've been there for 16 years, watching spring unfold for the first time that I'd never seen before. My husband and I were having dinner together every night. I was in this very privileged position during the beginning of the shutdown to suddenly be generating income in a way that I hadn't before. And slowly I started to realize I'm not going back my new career path. I had one flagship client that I'd been working with for now for almost a decade. And then I started working as a contractor for donor Lee, Sandra Davis's company outside of New York. She's been like an amazing mentor to me over the years. And I just started to think there was something else there. So I thought, and Cindy and I talk about this all the time, but there was, like, shiny object syndrome going on, is that, like, I saw, I was like. I had this idea that I wanted to become the Brenez Brown of the fundraising world, and I wanted that. Without even knowing who any other fundraising consultants were, I truly had never needed a consultant. I wasn't coming from this world in a traditional way and didn't even know that most people didn't have a quote unquote traditional way that they got into it in the first place. So I started talking to a book publisher, and I started to do some market research to figure out who in the field that I wanted to be like and emulate. And so actually found Cindy. Through TikTok, of all things, is how I originally found Cindy and Jess, I found you through Instagram. I found Rhea. Somehow. I found Julia Campbell. I found Brooke, Richie Babbage. I found Mallory Erickson and Dana Snyder. I was like, wow, these women are all doing Tanya Bhattachiaria. All these women are doing things in a way that feels in alignment with me. And I just always thought that fundraising professionals were really buttoned up and kind of like stiff and conservative. And I was like, no, these people are fun and they're creative and they're open minded. And then I realized you all knew each other, so that was kind of why well, and I started listening to confessions, but I really didn't yet understand the impact of what I could grow as my business. So I was really looking at. I came to Cindy and I started working with Tanya Bodhichiya in terms of going through her LinkedIn sprint. The first one she did, I'd already been in conversation with Cindy, but who didn't have the availability at the moment. And I asked Tanya who I should go to as a coach. And she said, cindy. So I went back to Cindy and I said, okay, here are my goals, my one month goal, my six month, my twelve month, who do you think would be and hoping that maybe she would bite the second time around, but saying to her, who do you think would be a good coach? And then she was like, okay, I actually do have time for you this summer to start working together. And it was actually Cindy. It's like a very circular way of getting back to this. But the first time Cindy and I met, and I was explaining what I do, Cindy and I started to brainstorm in our 1st 3 hours together. And Cindy was the one who said, five minute fundraising ask, or we started to come up with that phrasing together. So that packaging and that marketing was really a brainchild of me and Cindy. And Cindy understanding my niche in a way that so hard, right? Like, for us to necessarily understand what our own superpowers are sometimes. So she really was like, yes, sure, you'll write the book, you'll have a podcast, but those are marketing tools towards your business. And she said, you realize you can charge a sizable amount of money for people to do this. And I am a very ambitious, excited person. So I was like, that all sounds great, but I had nothing truly even thought about that. I just knew that I have this one flagship client and any flagship client is one decision, one leadership change away from that person going away. As much as I loved working with Donorly, I was at the top of that organization as a senior consultant. There wasn't an opportunity to buy in or become a partner or anything. So I was very aware that I was just selling my time to help build somebody else's business. And I didn't quite understand all that yet, but I knew that that wasn't a. A long term solution. So while someone else would be like, you're crazy, you've got these two w. Two jobs that you're doing. You're making over six figures. What are you doing? Building something else. But I just knew there was something else to build. So that's how I started working with Cindy, and we started to figure this out together.
[00:10:58 - 00:12:07]That's so funny. I totally forgot that you didn't have the five minute fundraising ask before we started working together. It was taking this ick out of the ask, which still is good, but the five minute fundraising ask. And I remember working with you on that clarity of messaging. I'd love for you to talk. Well, there's two things, because. Okay, let's start by talking a little bit about this idea of building a business versus doing some fun, cool looking things, and also kind of still owning the fact that a lot of us do, like, the public recognition, like we. Like, I've often talked about that, that I do want to be a name that people recognize, and I do want to be on stages, and I think that sometimes we get too far down that or we think we misattribute what it takes to get us there. But talk about kind of like, owning that ambition and then figuring out the business side is not just, like, publishing a book and having a podcast and being famous on LinkedIn. So tell us more about that.
[00:12:07 - 00:15:32]Yeah, I think I just. I didn't know all of the back end work that went into this, and I got excited about it. So I think, for me, I hadn't ever thought of my business. Part of it is that coming from a theater background, there's a lot, and we can talk about in terms of being an entrepreneur, I feel really set up to do that work really well, because in theater, you always have to have multiple plates spinning. As an artist, even if you have, like, your biggest break that's happened, you've got to be thinking five steps ahead, because it's always about what's the next job after that. So there was a lot of ways that I felt like, like, really set up to do this well, but I. I found out really quickly that having my own business felt like, and like, truly having my own business. Like, I called myself a fundraising consultant. I had this one client, and I mean, again, someone else would be like, wow, that's really successful. You have a client. And I was making somewhere between 60 to year with this one client. They'll be like, oh, that's actually a really successful start. But I just started to understand what that meant for my business to be something separate of me in a way that my directing career always felt like me as a human was at the center of it. So there was something that felt like there was a nice separation. And I really think about my business as a separate entity to me, even though it is my name. But I'm like, oh, the business is going to do this. I'm going to put this work into my business so my business can provide something else. So I think, Cindy, I hadn't, I knew what I could provide to my business in terms of that. Oh, I really like to talk to people. I really want to be on stages. I really want this book out there. I can see it, folks in the airport of people buying the five minute fundraising ask book. Like, that's coming at some point. But I had, it was all about generating from me as an individual as opposed to the services that I could provide. And I just kind of glossed over that step. I think listening to you all talk with Ria last week, you know, with your mastermind, I think she said something like, people frequently, I remember what the fancy car she mentioned, but was like, you're going to drive. You think you can drive that fancy car, but you don't even have your learner's permit yet. So I think I was, like, leaping a whole lot of steps ahead as opposed to being like, oh, there's actually really, there's a beauty in this journey, and also there's potential to earn. And again, in theater that doesn't really exist. Like, truly, I mean, yes, you can be the person who directs Hamilton and is suddenly set for life, but that's like, truly like one in a thousands of people. So, like, even having a very lucrative career, a really successful career as a theater director, they're all doing other things to support themselves. So I hadn't really realized what the earning potential even was. And then that started to really fuel me. And because what I do is I coach people on how to build their mid level programs. I'm all about setting goals for my clients. I'm all about, okay, what's our overall goal? What's our goal we think we can reach? What's our stretch goal? What's our secret? Super duper. Don't talk about it with anyone but ourselves. Goal pass there. So I had been really, I knew how to set goals and monetary goals and talk about money. And so once I realized that I could actually gamify all of this in terms of a financial incentive, then I felt really comfortable with it and being like, yeah, I get that podcast will come. But that took me a while. And we can talk about it was really about marketing too, of getting really clear how to talk about what I do, not just the framework, that once I got clear about that this winter, then suddenly this past winter, it started to take off.
[00:15:33 - 00:16:58]Okay, I want to come back to like, how you gamify and knowing your numbers, because I feel like, well, you've been so generous. Cal is a member of BBT and we have a winch channel, and she periodically shares when she's met certain goals that she set for herself. So I want to come back to that. But what I'd love for you to talk about is like, how you balance business development and marketing. Because I think what the real question is is, well, that is the real question. But what I know Cindy and I both see a lot of time is it being out of balance and people spending a majority of their time on the marketing side of things instead of selling and then confused why they aren't making more money or getting new business. I know it's like a line to straddle, right? Because there is a need for both. But in most instances I see it imbalanced. And so I'm curious how you either is that a mindset thing? Is that a goal setting thing? Like, how do you straddle the two and not get kind of bogged down by, like Cindy said, being LinkedIn famous or, you know, whatever, because your results are actual dollars. And I know that that comes from a lot of business development, which is a little different than the marketing.
[00:16:58 - 00:21:00]Yeah, I think part of it is that a large part of it is that I started all this work by working with Tanya Bhattachi Arya, and I just really, to a t, followed her methodology of quote unquote, being lazy on LinkedIn. I really love to write, and I keep hoping that I find a moment that I can actually batch a whole bunch of things. But right now I truly am writing my one quality post a week, usually either on the weekend or Monday or Tuesday. And I post every Wednesday at noon. So that's just in my schedule. And so I'm just really clear, like, I'm really putting all in right now in terms of LinkedIn just to build my following and build my recognition that way. I also have this strategy right now of just wanting to get the idea of using phone calls into the larger social impact sector, zeitgeist, so that people are thinking are in a meeting, they're like, wait, what about phone calls? And someone's. I saw somebody on LinkedIn is talking about phone. Oh, there was this woman, and that's what she does is phone calls. So making it their idea. But that then they come to me specifically looking for the solution that I offer to their problem of how to build and retain at mid level. I'm just going all in on LinkedIn. And I don't mean that I love the book launch and, you know, this idea that we have to be really careful and obviously, Jess email list Maven, we have to be careful that we're not building on land that we don't own. Slash, that's quicksand. That is social media at the moment. It's just kind of the thing that I am letting pull me right now. So I only spend time on LinkedIn, and I'm really limited by the time I spend there. And I do find, like, I have to sometimes take it off of my phone. Cause I will look at it a little bit too much, but it's like taking the place of, like, just personally on Instagram. So I'm just kind of using it as a little bit of my. My social media time. But having a coach like Cindy is continuing as I'm like, I'm just doing this. This is okay. Yes. Just keep doing what you're doing on LinkedIn. Don't have to worry about anything else. I haven't been actively pitching myself on podcasts that's just been about relationship building. And to your point of, like, when I see something and I'm a fan of somebody and I do try to make time that I'm on LinkedIn just to comment on other people that I'm excited about, that's all happening really organically. And if I asked to take a meeting with a colleague who happens to have a podcast, or they ask to take a meeting with me almost every time, they then ask if I'll come on their podcast because they were seeing who I am in these settings and feeling excited about it. So at the moment, I have. That will probably come at some point, but I'm not doing. I'm not like actively pitching myself. But I am finding that it's happening. And part of that is just truly restraint that I've been building and muscle building I've been doing through my work with Cindy of, you're doing enough of that. You don't need to worry about that. But the actual networking and the business development comes very comfortably to me. But at first, I had a real setback about that, because, like I said, that I started from a place of fundraising was my dirty little secret. So I'm. Cindy's seen this with lots of her clients in the past, but I had a real resistance to going to my first and second degree just to take meetings. I was like, they don't care. And it's, no, kel, they don't actually even know what you do yet. So I really spent last year, my husband and I, we're New Yorkers, but we're living on this little island off the coast of Portland, Maine, as you two know. So Cindy was like, you have to be in New York once a month, and you need to check in with your network once a month. So I started doing that, and that's really fun and easy for me. And that started to lead to business by just truly checking in with people. You know, I keep all of my list, all of my biz dev of who do I want to check in with, but it's all about people who I'm excited to just be a human with and try to pick a coffee shop that I like or a lunch spot that I like, or take a walk someplace I like in New York. You know, I really love continuing to build relationships, but from a place that is really organic and really, truly, like, long term relationship building, as opposed to, what is this going to lead to in this moment? And once I got really clear about my messaging, then, yeah. And all started to take off.
[00:21:01 - 00:22:32]Okay, I want to dive into this a little bit more because, a, you did have a lot of resistance at the beginning. You're like, this is business development. Or, like, when. Why? When does this come? Like, what are the clients coming? And I was like, just. Just keep. Keep building that network. Keep building relationships. And I think you just described this feeling of, it doesn't feel like business development, right? It feels authentic. It feels like you're meaningfully connecting with people. And that is very counter to, I think, how we are taught to think and feel about business development. So I'd love for you to dive in because we know what that journey was like, but our listeners don't know. So I would love for you to peel that back even more and talk about what had, like, what you did specifically and how you did it and that it. How it paid off, because also, your clients are high ticket clients. I mean, we didn't get into, like, how you get paid to, but I think it's worth talking about the size of your contracts and all of that, because you're not selling something for $1,000 or things like that. So peel it back a little bit more and take us through that journey you went on, because I think at the beginning, you're like, is this actually business development? Am I wasting my time here, or isn't this enough? I'm doing more, and I'm doing more. When can I stop? So tell us more about that.
[00:22:37 - 00:22:42]All right, Kel. We are back for another round of rapid fire questions. You ready?
[00:22:42 - 00:22:43]Yay.
[00:22:44 - 00:22:54]All right, let's go. You live on a cutie pie island in Maine. What is the must do thing to do when you come visit your island?
[00:22:54 - 00:24:03]Well, to come visit our island, I will just be your absolute hostess with the mostest and tour guide of the island. I'll give you a map. We'll drive around. We'll walk around. Whatever works for you. We have a whole bunch of right ways to shore. And what's amazing about our island is that all the beaches are different, and I'll have a different view and a different scenery and a different vibe. So whatever you're after, if you want beach book and besties, like my best friend does, we can sit on a particular beach in that. If you want to take an adventure, walk through the woods, you want to go through the woods to a beautiful, rocky beach that looks right out onto the Atlantic Ocean, we can do that. And my husband and I love to host. So last night, we had friends visiting, and we had a lobster meal. So one of our neighbors, Alex, is a lobsterman, brought over eight lobsters. They were in my sink, cooked them, did a seafood risotto, had a seasonal salad with it, and then had, like, blueberry and ice cream from the niblick, which is, like, the seasonal place. But also, if you want to go to Portland, Maine, I have a whole bunch of really good wrecks that's just, like, 20 minutes once you're off the island, Portland, Maine, is like, an amazing food scene. So I have all those recs, too.
[00:24:03 - 00:24:15]Oh, so good. It sounds, I don't know, fairy tale or something. As someone who is always, you know, you set your goals, you're making plans. What are you doing for your next big celebration.
[00:24:16 - 00:24:43]Next big celebration. My husband and I are hoping to go in January on a trip when it's not nice weather here. We're thinking probably Costa Rica. I would like. We haven't taken an international trip together in the last couple of years. There is a particular resort that I've had my eyes on for a few years and earning in a different way. It feels a little bit more possible now than it did before. So hopefully maybe saying it here will keep us accountable. That like January and Costa Rica.
[00:24:44 - 00:24:54]Awesome. Oh my gosh, it's amazing. It's like such a great country. And last question is, who are one or two of your favorite follows on LinkedIn and why?
[00:24:55 - 00:25:19]Veronica la feminina is amazing because she is just so smart and so generous and everything she says is like, my favorite thing. Gotta say, like, obviously our LinkedIn queen, Tanya Bhattachiaria. I love that. I feel like Mallory Erickson really brings the vulnerability and the actionability in a way that I really respect and admire. And things that she writes are really in alignment as well.
[00:25:20 - 00:25:21]Awesome. Thanks for playing.
[00:25:22 - 00:33:34]Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm fine. To start with. How do I get paid? Like, just to give the listeners some idea of the scale that I'm on at the moment, I really try to start my services at $15,000 for an initial training coaching consulting package. And I'm really trying to specifically work with organizations that may have the need and the interest in building something larger than just that $15,000 initial training coaching with me and then my retainer clients run anywhere from 3000 a month to 7000 a month, depending on how much, how much hands on work that is for me and depending on whether or not I need to have a subcontractor to help me with that particular client. Yeah. So I really, for me, where I am right now in terms of working on contracts, working on invoices is like my least favorite part of all of this. But I just feel like it's not really worth my time if it's not going to start from a place of about fifteen k. And also just the amount of, like, strategic brainpower that I'm bringing to these clients. And what I will say is very fortunate for what I do is that there is an almost immediate return on investment. So if you get on the phone and suddenly, wow, that person who has disappeared off the map, who was in for 5000, just came in for 10,000. Okay, somebody just upped their gift from two point five k to five k suddenly in a day, it could be that my services for those couple of months have just totally been a return on investment. So there's an almost immediate return on investment in terms of what I do, which is so rare in our sector that usually it's such a slow burn. But I can show that immediately. And what I love is it's not just quantitative feedback of here's how much has come in, but the qualitative research and the stories of actually connecting one on one with somebody is, is just like truly worth its weight in gold. So I'm just really fortunate that I have found a way to crack this that they can see, okay, I see this as like an actual investment that will pay off really quickly if we start working with Cal. To your question, Cindy, about that business development, I had to really, it's easier now that it's happening. So I don't hold on. I knew. I psychologically knew, and again, because I coach people on how to make, I knew to not hold on tightly to the outcome. I coach my clients to focus on the forest that is the relationship as opposed to the tree that is this particular conversation. So it took me a little while to learn that. And I can sit down pretty quickly with somebody and get a sense of, oh, are they actually hearing me? Are they actually interested in this work? Is this actually going to work for their, or is this just me truly sitting down with somebody that I genuinely like as a person? And we have lots of mutual contacts, and maybe I can help them if they're leaving that job or if they want to become a consultant or they're looking to hire somebody. Like, I know a lot of people, so I can then help them figure out what's next for their business. But I also know now when I sit down, oh, that person is immediately interested. So I sat down in May with someone that, oh, also board members. I'm finding that if the referral is coming from a board member, that is my quickest, easiest way to make a new relationship quickly. So I am really aware of that. So I have a relationship with a board member, someone that is now a client of mine. But I sat down for, she had no time for me. She said it was going to be like a half hour coffee. So I had a doctor's appointment set up to go to. I sat down with this woman. We immediately clicked. She was very interested in working with consultants. She was very interested in what I was saying about mid level. And I found myself, like, under the table writing an email to my doctor's office. Be like, is it okay if I come tomorrow instead, because this is leading somewhere. And we ended up being together for 90 minutes. I was like, oh, this is a. She's a mover and a shaker. The woman, the director of development I was with, she's a mover and a shaker. I like her. I want to work with her. I feel like she wants to work with me. That led to an immediate, just two week engagement that was $4,000, which then led to a $16,000 engagement that I'm working about to embark on. Suddenly, that was a $20,000 client. So I'm getting to the point that I can feel when it's like, oh, is this a long range slash, maybe never having happened, client mid range, or is there real potential right now? And part of it is just the questions, and I think that's something. Cindy's really been helpful, and I just keep just like I do with my clients, reminding them not to oversell. I'm obviously a very acerbic person. I have to really restraint and really lead with curiosity and really lead with questions and follow up questions and just really try to say a lot less, yes, it's helpful when it's over Zoom, because I also have my fathom going. And so then when I go to write the proposal, I have their phrasing. I have the things they're really thinking about, and that feels really important to me when I'm writing a proposal, that it is as personal as possible. Yeah, it's easier now that it's happening. I just couldn't see it first, what Cindy was saying was coming. I was like. I just couldn't even envision what that looked like until I started saying $15,000 out loud, until I started to really articulate. But the other big thing that happened was, we were all in a building better together mastermind moment, and one of our colleagues was asking specific questions about. I forget what my question was, but was asking questions about what I do. And he said, can you explain it to me? Like, I'm in third grade? And I suddenly blanked and didn't have a good answer. So I, you know, was like. Like, slacking back and forth with Cindy about it. But I took the weekend, and I really thought about it first from a mindset place, and I realized, oh, when I was a kid, my younger brother was more traditionally bright than I was, and he picked up chess faster than I did. And my dad thought it was funny, and I felt really embarrassed and ashamed, and I shut down. To this day, I am like a board game fanatic. I don't play chess. I don't totally know how, know all the mechanics because I don't want to read as stupid. So I realized that part of me was afraid I was going to come across as not brighten, and that was a real mindset place for me. The other was the first fundraising job I ever had in my twenties. My supervisor would only bring us in front of leadership when something was going wrong. And so I realized that I had a defense that, like, talking about what I did felt like, defensive to me. So I spent some time just figuring out the mindset. And then I remember it was in February. I walk into my bedroom, talk to my husband, who's an actor and a grant writer and strategist, and I was like, okay, I figured it out. It's mid level. That is my sweet spot. Because major gifts, almost everybody realizes that you've got to do one on one cultivation. And you're having coffee and lunch and dinner drinks with those people. We've got amazing people like Jess and Dana, who are really working with segments of emails and really figuring out in the tech way to reach people in terms of the smaller gifts and the monthly gifts. And that really exists, but people really don't know what to do about mid level, and that's where my five minute phone calls come in. So I really felt like I was able to have the breakthrough of how to talk about what I did because I spent that time figuring out my mindset of why was it hard? And then once I had it figured out, I turned around and made a LinkedIn post about it that week and had a lot of people agreeing with me. So I think it was both getting comfortable. I'd already been putting the business development and the networking and just being a good person. Like, I like to be in a social person, a curious person. I like to be anyway, like, putting that into play. But it was that coupled with getting really specific about, here's the problem I solve is what then made me. I then closed in April. I closed $25,000 worth of business in one week. And that was when I started to realize, okay, this is happening. That was half of what I had made as my initial new business revenue for the year, and I closed it in a week. And that was when I was like, okay, cracked this. I think I've cracked this and can keep going.
[00:33:35 - 00:34:45]It's brilliant. It's so brilliant. I'm so glad, too, that someone prompted you with that question. I ask that question to my clients all the time because people get so in their head around their wording, and it's sometimes most difficult to do it for yourself than to have someone else looking on the inside. I'm a copywriter and a messaging expert, and I struggle to do it for myself. It's almost more helpful to have someone reflect back to you. For anyone out there that's struggling with your messaging, try the exercise of, how would you explain this to a third grader? Because it might be helpful. Okay, so I want to just poke in a little bit more about. Are you saying that you've spent so much time planting seeds with and building relationships? Are you saying that your business development is mostly coming through referrals, or is it more you are speaking to, like, that board of director personality on LinkedIn, and you're getting inbound inquiries. Are you doing cold outreach? Like, how did that meeting with that director of development who said she didn't have time, and then you ended up spending 90 minutes together? Like, how did that even come to be?
[00:34:45 - 00:39:01]Well, that again, I. Well, it actually started by going to the make it happen conference hosted by Miss Jess Campbell. I made the decision to room with someone, so I roomed with Tess Cohen. I was like, what am I doing? I'm a 40 year old woman rooming with someone that I barely know. But Tess and I got really close really quickly, and immediately, she's like, you have to meet my mom. She's in New York City, and she also loves theater and has that background. And then it took me, like, two visits before that was able to happen. I sat down with Tess's mom, holly. Love you, holly Cohen. Love you. Tess Cohen sat down with her mom, and we just really hit it off, and she's, okay. Here are two organizations, one that I'm on the board of, and you need to meet these people. And I never know. I'm like, okay, are they just meeting with me because the board member says so? Are they actually interested? And so it was. It was truly three connections that led to that meeting, and just leading from a place that's curious. I don't do any cold outreach as of now. I don't know. Imagine that will happen sometimes. I've been traveling for work, and if someone, I'm connected with them on LinkedIn, and I'm excited about their organization, and I've been like, I'm going to be in town. Can we meet up so far, either? I haven't really had great success, but when I've taken that meeting, I've. It's felt a little icky, like, I've sat there with leadership that said, okay, what are you here to sell me? And I'm like, not here to sell. And if you're going to lead into that, I kind of have a feeling this isn't going to be a right partnership anyway. So a lot of it is just, or is relationships I've been building over the years through being in theater. So I have a lot of that. I have a lot of background in theater, a lot of people who maybe aren't in theater now, but I have relationships I not yet seen that LinkedIn is like a direct correlation of, I am just seeing you on LinkedIn, but it's leading to it. So it's, I'm at somebody's forefront of their mind because they're seeing my content every month. I'm sorry, every week, as opposed to, oh, I just heard from Kella out of the blue. I can't tell you how many people I reach out to that say, oh, by the way, I'm following your content, and I love it. Keep up the good work, or of course I want to catch up with you. I'm loving what you're doing on LinkedIn. So I'm seeing that as more of a supplement as opposed to a direct lead generator, quote, unquote. I'm definitely what Malcolm Gladwell would consider a connector, just like the two of you. That all comes really naturally to me. I do have one client right now that actually came in through search engine optimization, through Donorly, so I haven't really looked into that. But that was someone who came specifically through donorly, the consulting firm where I was a senior consultant. We were already starting to unbraid, so when that person came in, Sandra said, Kel, that sounds like what you're doing with your consulting firm. Take that meeting through KelHaney Consulting, as opposed to through donor leash. She was fine with that. I do have two really great clients that have found me through podcasts, specifically being on John and Becky's. We are for good. So I am aware that I will, in the future, probably continue to be more strategic about the podcast that I'm on because. Because it's pretty amazing. If someone has already heard me on a podcast, I realize that they tend to come to the first meeting really excited about me and that it's really a moment that I can really make it about them and hearing about where they are because they're already bought in on me. They might not be bought in on the price point yet, but they're bought in on what I'm offering. And I frequently find that it's both, like, the ED or the director of development and somebody else on the team that I might be working more directly with. So frequently I'm like, oh, in this first meeting, I'm meeting not just with one person, I'm meeting with multiple, multiple people. And that always feels like a good sign towards them having the potential of an interest. But I did have one client that reached out, and on the intake forum, they said that their budget was two point five k. And I sat down and I was like, everything they said, I felt like I could really help them and that they had the right size of an organization. And I felt like the person that I'd be coaching on the mid level relationships was really game for it. And I basically said, well, well, you know, this starts at 15,000. Here's why I think it could be useful for year end. They're headed into a capital campaign. I was like, I think this will be useful in a larger sense. What do you think? Is that something that is potentially digestible to you? And they said, yeah, go ahead and give us a proposal. So I got them from 2.5 to 15, which is where I could really make an impact. And they agreed. And they originally heard me on a podcast here.
[00:39:01 - 00:39:59]You heard it here first, people. So it's a combination of everything, but those are specifics were really helpful. Okay. I have two questions that are very different directions. So the first question I want to ask is going back to what you talked about at the start, which is about gamification, and you are someone who really knows your stuff. Like, you've set goals. I'm sure this is work. Maybe I'm not sure, but I'm assuming, because Cindy operates this way as well, she loves knowing her numbers and she loves gamification. So I'm not shocked if, like, she would encourage you to do the same. But, like, how did you set your goals? You have various goals broken down, and so you're just very clear on your north star, and I love that. And I'd love to hear how you infuse gamification into the process so that when you hit certain things, there's a celebration in some way, shape, or form happening.
[00:39:59 - 00:42:43]Well, part of it just comes from what I do in terms of how I'm coaching clients. So I do keep a little note at my desk about which has, here's my goal. So my goal was $50,000. New biz goal. So I kept a little post it at my desk that said $50,000. And then every time I brought in a new client, I would take it off of that number so I could see how far away I was from 50,000. So part of it is I truly to see the visual. I like to know how far away I am. I actually really encourage that with my clients, too, and for them to be very open with their community members. Hey, we're trying to raise x amount by y date, and we're z away from that right now. Like, I find that, that it's all about trying to figure out how to get us all not just, you know, feel good oxytocin, but get it done, dopamine. So I'm thinking that way. So I love playing with numbers. Cindy did set me up with an excel sheet of, like, how to keep track not just of my cash flow budget, but also that I can play with on my projections. So I'm on that almost every day. Like, just kind of like fantasizing of, okay, well, if I, I get to a place like, I started the summer and I was like, okay, I want to have two more retainer clients, at least 5000 a month. I want to have at least two more training packages at $15,000 a month. So I'm always playing with that. And then when I close those new clients, I'm then moving them in a different way on my sheet. So I'm having fun, like, playing with the numbers always. So I like that. And how do I come up with the numbers? It's, it's a combo. I mean, again, we're on confessions there. I really do have, I would consider some intuitive gifts. So sometimes it's truly like a number drops into me and I'm like, cool. And then I, like, do the back end numbers of my data. I'm like, oh, that number actually makes a lot of sense. Or that number actually is a little bit of a stretch, but not too much of a stretch. So I think about that a lot, too. And so it's, it's really always just playing with what are the different scenarios? And I love to just always be trying to figure out what are different scenarios of what's possible and also the sky isn't going to fall. I mean, I have to say, I have a lot of privilege. I worked, I went to a state school. I came out without any loans. I inherited a small amount of money that was always, like, kind of my safety net. So I'm not sitting here. Okay, if I don't reach my new business goal, that means we can't. We're fortunate enough to own a house that we can't pay our mortgage, or I'm not going to be able to pay for my dog to go to the vet. I have myself already set up in a financial place that I have some safety nets, so that. That makes it easier. Yeah. And I tend to like kind of plan. What are the celebrations even before it happens? Even before I had that $25,000 week, like, my husband and I were in New York together. We're not usually there together. One of us is usually with the dog here.
[00:42:43 - 00:42:44]If we're.
[00:42:44 - 00:43:59]If one of us is in New York, because I'm so busy the whole time, I actually think I spend more time with him when he. I'm in New York and he's here because we get have a good phone call as opposed to just end up in the same place to crash. But we did have a nice dinner. We were at Tom Colicchio's craft, like it's 2010 or something. But it was amazing. I loved it. And so we had already planned this nice dinner, and I just happened to close my 1st $15,000 client that afternoon. So we sat there and got. And I got to tell him about it. For his birthday. I surprised him. And we went to Chicago and we went to Alinea three star Michelin restaurant. And I surprised him. He didn't even know until we got. Got to the gate where we were going. But that was a way to celebrate him turning 40, but also how he's supporting me and my business and that we can do these things. Now. For me, a lot of it is like having a really great event and being able to be, like, hospitable to the people we love. We're renovating our house right now. So I bought the stove I always wanted. I'm. I'm kind of moving forward as if it's going to continue to be successful. I don't need, like, direct gamification of once this then that, because I kind of see it all unfolding in a way that feels great. So I have all sorts of little ways to celebrate and ways to mark this like they're already in place. I just know the goals will also get better.
[00:43:59 - 00:46:06]So good. Okay. And so then I'm just like, hijacking my center. Sorry. Cindy, if you have a question. Okay, so there is a very clear differentiator between, in my opinion, we've recorded over 100 episodes of confessions at this point from people like you who are on the path to and not on the path like you are successful and, like, highly successful and profitability and organized and, like, you can just feel your vibe right now. Like you just said, you're not stressing out over, you know, are you going to make your mortgage or whatever? There's probably stretch goals and things involved, and I'm sure some months once, like, you come short of what your goal was, but, like, you're cruising, right? Like, business is coming in, you're good, and then there's a whole lot of other people. And from talking to so many different consultants, I know one of those facts that has led you to the success is your investment into professional development. Like, you have just paid the fast pass and saved yourself, like, the amount of time that all of the success has happened is shrunk down compared to other people who've been at this for a much longer period of time, and they're all whirly and stressed out. And. And so I just want to talk through a little bit about that mindset. Like, have you always been like that? Or was there something about this new endeavor that you're like, you know, I just want to find the Cindy's of the world, get the play by play, and I know I can execute on it. What was that? Because not everyone's like that. I would say a vast majority of people are not like that. They're like, I'm gonna do the dance, and I'm gonna. They're also coming from a background of nonprofit life where, like, living in chaos is their baseline and norm. And so that feels familiar. So to do things like the steady, kind of organized way is actually more unfamiliar. And it just seems like you're like, I'm not doing that. And I'm curious why.
[00:46:06 - 00:49:43]Well, I think part of it is that I didn't realize it, but as a theater director, I was a solopreneur all of those years, and I was a solopreneur without a clear path towards it being profitable. So I was always investing a lot in my career as a theater director in terms of, you know, going on business trips and seeing a lot of theater. And I actually worked with a business coach when I was in theater. And part of that was the year that I was getting married. And I was like, okay, I need some actionable, actionable goals so that this doesn't all go by the wayside while I'm. While I'm planning this wedding and, like, this huge gathering that I'm so excited about. So I already knew what that meant to work with a coach. So, I mean, I took a. In my last year was the first year that I actually started my llc, and I took a $22,000 loss last year in terms of, like, working with Cindy and taking my trips to New York and working with Tanya. And so, like, I just, just, I knew I could bet on myself, and again, I was in a place of privilege that I could say, you know, this is where I am investing right now, is in my career towards the. And I knew, I knew it was going to pay off. I didn't know when, but I knew, I knew inside that it was going to pay off. So I was already prepared for that. And I will say, like, I knew I wanted to work with Cindy. I didn't even talk to her about pricing, like, probably should have, I don't know, but it was, like, a little bit higher than I thought when I realized. And I was like, yep, we're doing it. Because I just met her, I knew that this was the right person, and I. And I understood the idea of value based pricing. I understood that in terms of something I was willing to pay for. And then I was like, this is gonna. I knew it was my fast pass. I was sure of it. So I was like, this is gonna help me learn really quickly. I knew I already had the skills. I knew I had something I could really talk about, and that was really marketable. I just didn't know how to do any of that. So I feel like, yeah, working with Cindy has been, like, the best investment I could make, and it's worth every penny. And I'll always have a business coach. I'm sure that's just going to be part of the two of you. That's always going to be part of my business plan is that. That's just something that is part of what I'm already putting into my budget. I'm also working really hard to stay really lean in terms of my overhead, and that's part of me seeing what's working for Cindy. And for the most part, what's working for you just right now is I'm like, I really like the idea of staying as lean as possible. So I just read Paul Jarvis's company of one, and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is everything. I'm like, Cindy, you don't even have to read this book. You're already doing all of this, less teaching it to your clients, but it is out there. And I was like, I want to stay really lean with my overhead. So, like, when I do have those leaner months, I can just scale back. And so I'm really only. And I'm. I can do that as, um, my bit. My llc is in Maine, so I can do that, like, really work right now in terms of contractors at the moment. And so I'm just like, what do I need for this particular client right now? As opposed to, like, making some kind of big investment? I, you know, saw what that was working at donorly of like, a firm that was like, anywhere between 22 to 30 people. And I just realized, like, all of the HR of that and, like, how difficult that is to build a profit margin that I was like, I'm going to build my profit margin first. And part of that is like, cindy and a few of my other friends had been like, profit first. So I'm doing the whole profit first thing. Love it. And so I'm really like, how do I stay lean? How do I keep as much net as possible in terms of what I'm bringing in? That feels really important to me is to just stay really lean. I do want to renovate. You're in my office slash guest room right now, and at some point I will really do it. I want a different background than I have right now, but that's not, that's a nice to have, not a need. And so I'm not worried about that right now.
[00:49:44 - 00:50:10]Awesome. So good. And thank you. It's true. When we first spoke and I was like, we need to work together because I could see that fire and spark in you and the willingness to do the work and be coachable. So you've been a dream client. All right, we have to start wrapping up, which means we need to know what your confession is.
[00:50:10 - 00:52:00]I'd say my confession. I've been thinking about this a lot. I have two. The one is that I actually have a little prop that I use. I really doing my bookkeeping is my least favorite thing, and it's reminding me of when I was wedding planning and I needed to gamify it. So I bought a really cheesy bridal veil that I wore when I was doing wedding planning. And then we got really goofy, and my husband would start wearing it. If he was doing the wedding planning, we would pass the hat around. So I actually have a green visor that I wear, like an old school accountant, and I think it's like, kind of like six year old me, like, playing with numbers and playing with money. So I legit put that on every time I'm doing anything that has to do with bookkeeping. And so if my husband walks by or I was even wearing it the other day when my best friend was visiting. I was like, you didn't even say anything. She's. I thought that was just, like, your fashion to go out on the beach. And I was like, no, here's what I'm doing with it. So I have a little visor that I wear. So that's kind of the fun, silly confession. And then I think the deeper confession is that I just continue to explore what is my ambition and where is that coming from and what do I actually really want to do and how, like, how fast am I growing this? How much do I really feel like I want to earn versus how much do I want to work and letting that all be fluid and have that change, because I'm just aware, eldest daughter syndrome, that I'm just always kind of, like, pursuing success and pursuing excellence. And I just want to make sure that I'm, like, enjoying my life and enjoying the ride of my life as I'm doing this and not being five steps ahead all the time. So I'm really trying to figure out how to stay present and stay intentional about what I'm building and what actually feels right, not just what do I know I could do because I'm, like, a high achieving, ambitious person. So just really figuring out and working on that in therapy, too, like, how to just keep my ambition really in check and that I am running the show, not my ambition.
[00:52:01 - 00:52:13]So good. Oh, so good. Kel, we can't thank you enough for folks who want to be in touch with you or learn more. About five minute asks, what's the best way for people to get in touch?
[00:52:13 - 00:52:34]Like I said, LinkedIn is my absolute networking, happy place. So absolutely contact me on LinkedIn. I'm also more than happy to take a 30 minutes zoom call with anyone so you can find that on my website, ww dot kelhany.com. right at the top, it'll have a how to book 30 minutes of my time. So happy to talk to anybody about any of this.
[00:52:34 - 00:52:36]You're the best. Get in touch with her.
[00:52:36 - 00:52:40]You all are the best. Thanks so much for joining us, KelCal.
[00:52:40 - 00:52:41]Thank you.
[00:52:43 - 00:52:54]Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
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