"I need my business to run without me as much as possible, and I need it to run exactly how I want it to be run. So how do I do that? By building up all these systems." - Maria Rio

Building an Agency with Maria Rio 

In this unfiltered glimpse into her entrepreneurial journey, Maria Rio pulls back the curtain on the relentless work ethic, strategic systems, and authentic team-building approach that is skyrocketing her firm's rapid growth.

With refreshing candor, Maria also confesses the challenges she's faced - from difficult hiring decisions to struggles with boundaries and self-care amidst her relentless work ethic. Her resilience and commitment to constant growth will leave you feeling empowered to tackle your own entrepreneurial obstacles with renewed clarity and determination.

In this episode of Confessions, Maria shares:

• Her multi-pronged lead generation tactics that keep her pipeline consistently full, from leveraging LinkedIn to hosting webinars and fostering strategic partnerships.

• The meticulous preparation and onboarding systems she implemented to seamlessly embed her first hire and maintain a consistent, values-driven client experience.

• Her evolved mindset on transitioning from a subcontractor model to hiring employees, and the unique considerations involved in that pivotal decision.

• The authentic, community-centric principles that guide her firm's culture and approach to building a diverse, mission-aligned team.

So tune in as Maria shares the truth about her first year building a thriving, multiple six-figure nonprofit consulting firm. You'll walk away with actionable strategies to implement in your own business and the inspiration to approach your ambitions with the same tenacious passion that propelled Maria's success.

00:01:31 Introducing Maria Rio to the Podcast

Maria Rio joins the podcast, sharing her journey into consulting and her experience in the nonprofit sector, including fractional fundraising and community-centric approaches.

00:03:25 Community-Centric Fundraising and Thought Leadership

Maria discusses her focus on community-centric fundraising, dignified storytelling, and advocacy in fundraising, sharing insights on moving the needle on important issues.

00:05:21 Building a Fundraising Firm and Making First Hire

Maria shares her journey of transitioning from a solo consultant to building a fundraising firm, including hiring subcontractors, VAs, and preparing for a new part-time team member.

00:09:10 Preparing for Hiring and Embedding into Business

Discussion on preparing to hire and integrate a new employee, including creating job descriptions, sharing postings, and adjusting contracts for employees.

00:15:05 Transitioning from Subcontractor to Employee Model

Exploration of the decision to transition from subcontractors to employees, considering time commitments, niche skill requirements, and long-term business goals.

00:18:27 Moving Towards Consultants and Right Hands

Facing the cost difference between subcontractors and employees, aiming for a consultant-based model with managing right hands for future business growth.

00:19:00 Impact of New Support Role

Reflecting on the results and changes after hiring a new support role, discussing the benefits, outcomes, and personal feelings with the added support.

00:19:31 The Shift in Mindset and Delegation

Discovering the peace of delegating tasks and trusting others while reflecting on personal growth and mindset shift in responsibilities.

00:20:42 Lead Generation Strategies

Insights into successful lead generation strategies, including website setup, email collection, SEO, LinkedIn optimization, and participation in events for client acquisition.

00:25:02 Authenticity in Communication

Emphasizing the significance of authenticity in communication, using personal voice, and genuine interactions to build relationships and engagement on LinkedIn.

00:28:41 Marketing Missteps and Community-Centric Fundraising

Highlighting marketing blunders in nonprofit consulting, addressing issues of dignity in client representation, donor pedestals, and the importance of confidently sharing valuable insights in the industry.

00:30:04 Diving into LinkedIn Strategy for Outreach

Exploration of LinkedIn as an underutilized tool for connecting with decision-makers, engaging in groups, optimizing profiles, and using Sales Navigator for lead generation.

00:34:45 Balancing Time for Marketing Channels

Discussion on time allocation for marketing channels like email and LinkedIn, balancing active and passive lead generation, and the challenges of creating personalized content.

00:37:31 Aligning Work with Growth Goals

Importance of aligning work with rapid growth goals, the necessity of personalized outreach for significant growth, and the role of confidence in achieving success.

00:39:23 The Speaker's Struggle with Performance Expectations

Maria discusses the dilemma of working with a subpar team member and the struggle to make a decision based on performance

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com

Connect with Maria: 

Go Further Together (Website): https://www.gofurthertogether.ca/ 

The Small Nonprofit Podcast: https://www.gofurthertogether.ca/podcast 

Maria Rio (Linkedin):https://ca.linkedin.com/in/mariario 

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com

Fractional Fundraising Network https://www.fractionalfundraising.co/

LinkedIn:  https://ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-campbell-outintheboons/ 

Transcript:

[00:00:00 - 00:00:03]Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

[00:00:03 - 00:00:11]And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.

[00:00:11 - 00:00:20]After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

[00:00:20 - 00:00:30]We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.

[00:00:30 - 00:00:51]Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

[00:00:51 - 00:01:10]No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

[00:01:11 - 00:01:27]Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly. When it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

[00:01:28 - 00:01:30]You ready? Let's go.

[00:01:31 - 00:01:32]Hey, Jess.

[00:01:32 - 00:01:34]Hi, Cindy.

[00:01:34 - 00:01:55]I know I say this all the time, but, like, today's conversation is particularly exciting for me because I feel like I played a not insignificant role in this person's coming over to the dark side of consulting. So I'm so excited to welcome Maria Rio to the podcast. Hey, Maria.

[00:01:55 - 00:02:00]Hey. I feel like you downplayed the role that you played in me coming into.

Consulting, but I, like, assured you, into the dark side.

[00:02:04 - 00:02:05]I love it.

[00:02:05 - 00:02:14]We're going to get into all of that. But before we do, for people who don't know you, tell us who you are and what you do, how you get paid.

[00:02:15 - 00:02:59]Yeah. So my name is Maria. My pronouns are she and her. And I'm the founder and CEO of Further Together Fundraising, which I'm trying to build into a little fundraising firm. So I'm actually really excited to be here today because I'm a year into my business, a year and three, four months. So I've kind of had a full year under my belt. I've hired my first person, and, you know, I'm here to spill all the details about how I make money. Right now, I'm doing some fractional fundraising, some communications work, and most recently, some interim director of development support. So that's been really interesting. I'm managing a team for one of my clients, and then I also do some speaking and writing that I sometimes get paid for, which is nice.

[00:03:00 - 00:03:24]Very nice. Absolutely. Yeah. And one of the things that I've always loved about you is your thought leadership. So you a host a podcast, and I would say one of the areas that you speak on and practice is community-centric fundraising. Can you just talk a little bit about that? Because I think it's such a part of your gift to the sector.

[00:03:25 - 00:05:20]Yeah. So I have taken on the small nonprofit podcast from Cindy, which is very exciting. I took it over in November, and now it lives on my website if you want to check out any new episodes. But when it comes to community-centric fundraising, it's something that I started implementing as an in house director of development and communications, and I feel like I was one of the first people to have, like, a data set around it. Like, here is the proof. Because, you know, fundraisers are all about numbers, all about the dollars, right? So there's this thing, when I started fundraising, they used to say, men lie, women lie, numbers don't. And that's exactly how I felt about creating this kind of case study on why communizty centric fundraising was a viable option. So for me, it's something that aligned really so much with my personal lived experience, is coming to Canada as a refugee and using charitable services, but also with the things that really pissed me off about my day to day work as an internal fundraiser, like being asked to put on an accent for a video, or, you know, like being complimented on my English, which literally so happens to this day. It just gave me the tools and the words to kind of move fundraising into a way where I felt it was actually working towards equity and it could be used as a form of advocacy instead of just raising funds, because we all know how to do that. But how do you actually move the needle on the issues that we care so much about? So, since implementing that, that organization and creating this case study, I've really done a deep dive on community centric fundraising. I speak on dignified storytelling, dignified appeal writing, and also enclosing major gifts when it comes to community centric fundraising, and talking about white supremacy while hoarding tax avoidance with your donors, which a lot of people can be scared of. But I think it's really exciting.

[00:05:21 - 00:06:13]I freaking love it. I love that. Like, you just. You're. Like, you're here, you're not. So, yeah, okay, so you've been in business for just over a year, and you've already started to build a firm, like an agency. Tell us a little bit about that. Like, first big hire, where you're like, okay, this isn't just me anymore, and I'm trusting someone to do the work. Like, I feel like a lot of people in our space, they talk about you're, like, hiring a va or, you know, getting some admin support, but you actually also hire people to do the work. Like, that is what an agency is. So tell us about that journey and what it's been like and how that growth is going.

[00:06:14 - 00:09:09]Yeah. So I just recently hired my first person, but I didn't start there. I actually started with a subcontractor model where I brought on someone who I already knew was very values aligned, who I already liked. We have a friendship outside of work. And I said, hey, your job sucks. You need to come with me. And after a month of that, she's like, yeah, you're right. Like, I'm going to leave. And I was really happy to bring on Esther. Esther Lee, who is part of the CCF Global council and who has now been consulting for a year as well, which is very, very exciting. And she was someone who, at first it was kind of difficult to see how we would manage the contracts and work together. But then we got into this rhythm of, okay, like, this is my client, and you're responsible for a lot of the implementation pieces and for being, like, the phase two to my brand. So we're going to meetings together, and we're engaging with the client. And, you know, it's a learning opportunity for her because she's been in fundraising for less time than I had, and she doesn't have the communications experience that I have. So that was great. After that, like, I spent a lot of time building up systems. So accounting, getting someone to help me with accounting, legal, getting someone to help me with legal. I got a few vas, so I think I have three vas currently, which is awesome. One works exclusively on the podcast, one manages a lot of my behind the scenes stuff, and the other one is doing some, like, receiving finances and outreach on my behalf. And because of all the work that I've done over the past, let's say probably six to eight months, I finally been able to bring on someone part time to do some of the fractional fundraising work. So this person I'm super excited for, and the expectation is that they'll join part time, and then I'll get them to full time before or around August. So I'm really excited for that. Yes. And the thing why I want to start now instead of in August is because you need someone in place to actually have the client meet them. I don't want me to start a relationship with someone and then leave that relationship, like, halfway through. I don't think that that's fair to the client or to me, because I fall in love with my clients, you know? But for that reason, like, I wanted to have her in place as someone who could represent the team. And also the other difference was I want her brain fully on my business. So not just the fundraising part, but how do we, you know, create a really amazing client experience? How do we get more clients? How do we do this accounting so it works better? So someone who is really integrated and, like, my right hand person. So, yeah, she has been around for, like, three weeks now, fully onboarded, super fast onboard, because she also already has, like, ten years of experience. And I just feel like I'm making the right choice.

[00:09:10 - 00:10:09]Oh, congratulations. That probably feels so good to have, like you said, a second brain on your business. I was just talking with Mackenzie, who's my hire, my full time hire. And we were just today in our check in talking about how difficult it is to slow down, to speed up. And especially for someone with my personality, it is, like, so difficult. Oh, my gosh. And I'm curious as to, like, what things you either prepared when you were hiring this person. You said you spent quite a bit of time developing systems. So, like, it's only been three weeks and you said it's already been amazing. So I'm just trying for folks who are like, oh, I want to do that. Like, what, tactically have you done to prepare to bring people? Like, did you, you know, time track for a week and then record loom videos? Or did you set up a Google folder? Or is she just been, or. I don't even know if it's a she. Sorry.

[00:10:09 - 00:10:10]Yeah, it's a she.

[00:10:10 - 00:10:18]She, like, has been shadowing you. Like, what has tactically embedding her into your business look like?

[00:10:19 - 00:10:28]I think it's the same as when you hire someone, but some of the things that when you hire someone internally, you don't realize that you have easy access to.

[00:10:28 - 00:10:29]Right.

[00:10:29 - 00:15:04]So first it was creating a job description. Obviously, it doesn't exist. So now I had to create a job description. I also added a referral, kind of. If anyone knows the right candidate, I will pay you to refer them to me. So that was one reaching out to my whole network to kind of share the posting, sharing it on LinkedIn as well to my audience, which another thing that I didn't think of is, oh, you have to pay to continue to have it on this website, but I need it on this website. So, like, AFP or LinkedIn or charity Village, like, you always have to pay for those resources to host your job posting. But thankfully, I got lucky with all my connections to sharing it. This person was actually a listener of the podcast, so that was really good. My challenge, though, in the recruitment was, I don't know if everybody's going to face this, but there's so much of my personal opinion out there on nonprofits. I was like, are people saying what they know? I believe, right? Like, they know what I think about boards or about, you know, staffs. So, like, are they saying something that I want to hear? But I think just having an external person, because I brought in my friend and colleague Stephanie to actually sit in on that interview, that final interview, to be like, okay, they don't know you. What are they saying, and how do they react to this additional person being in there? After that, I had to go back to legal and get a new employment contract because I had one for subcontractors, but it's very different when they're an employee. And also, this person doesn't live in my province. So is that an additional barrier that I had to consider? Right. There's. Oh, and now I have to retain, like, the taxes and the CPP and all these things that would be done by your employer, and now I'm your employer. So now I had to do that. So those were a little bit more admin heavy tasks that I had support of my vas with, which was great. And the interviews, I had the support of my friend and colleague in the fundraising and space, which was awesome. So it didn't really approach us 100% on my own. And then the next piece would be the actual onboarding. So I gave her, I think, the highest rate that I had in the posting, because it's like, you're my top candidate. I'm here to pay people well, and then with the onboarding. So this is something that I usually do as an in house person. I set up a database on notion. So Notion is like a project management tool. So I set up a database that will have, like, a few different columns. One of the columns is like, time. So start here, you know, or read later, something like that. And it lists out a bunch of resources. So it's part of that onboarding for her, I said, like, here's my business plan. That's one. And that's a need to know category, right? Start now. Need to know CCF, need to know, start now. Right. Here are the ten principles, and all those things link to the right spot so she'll be able to see, like, my folder of training materials, which I've actually been creating as I go. So I didn't do them all in preparation. I know I'm so extra, but I didn't do them all in preparation for this hiring. It's something that I need my business to run without me as much as possible, and I need it to run exactly how I want it to be run. So how do I do that? By building up all these systems. So I've spent a lot of time doing that, but now that I have the onboarding one, for example, oh, it has, like, a link to my Calendly and, like, our Canva brand templates and, like, my framework for my business and nonprofit flock. And then, you know, like, our client folders, our Onedrive, all that stuff. So it gives her a starting place to just go and then come back to me with questions. The other thing that I did is similarly timed. I was onboarding a fundraising client, so I asked her to sit in, into the fundraising onboarding client meeting so she could see the kind of questions that I felt comfortable asking from a client. Like, what's your governance? Like, your board fundraisers or doesn't? Oh, your foundry is still around, or not, you know, so, like, really getting into the nitty gritty of, like, the things that could greatly impact your fundraising strategy, that maybe you're not comfortable asking if you're a new person joining a team, but as a consultant, no one even bats an eye. So building that kind of understanding, that, like, it's a very different role that you're stepping into. Like, you're no longer an employee of an organization. Like, now you are a consultant, and you're representing me. So it's got to be good. Hmm.

[00:15:05 - 00:16:02]That whole, like, you're representing me part is really scary, because it's a big thing. Is Esther still working for you, the subcontractor as well? So now you have, like, a subcontractor and a part time, hopefully full time employee. And I feel like a lot of people really struggle with the commitment of an employee, and so they fallback on contractors. So I'd love for you to talk or subcontractors talk a little bit about that decision, and even, can you talk about the price difference between the two. But also, like, you're kind of betting on yourself hiring an employee. And I'd love to hear what's in your brain around, like, why now? Why are you ready to. To, like, really put that stake in the ground? That's a lot of questions. So take it as you will.

[00:16:02 - 00:18:25]So a lot of this thinking actually was developed slowly, right? Because I was like a subcontractor. That makes total sense. And it did at the time because I didn't have the stability to grow it, right. So it's like, hey, we're jumping into this kind of together. We don't know what we're getting into. Like, are you cool with that? I'm cool with that. Let's go. Right. So that was kind of the initial agreement between Esther and myself. So for her, what I did was I'm going to pay 2500 per client per month, so 90,000 over the course of the year and half of what I'm making per that client. So not an insignificant amount, and it's a boost over her previous salary. So it's all good. And I get to feel like I'm paying people what I think is a good amount. So that was one part. When it comes to the time commitment, Esther does the fundraising. But then that leaves everything else to me, and that's fine. Like that. That was our agreement. But as I want to scale my business, that everything else has ballooned. Like, it's just huge now. It's so much like it's content creation. It's thinking about the things that I want to say in the way that I want to say them. The podcast, it's, you know, signing the contract for that person and going back and forth with them and meeting with their board and meeting with them and, you know, alleviating all the concerns and the website updates and, you know, it just becomes like, really time intensive. So as time went on, I realized, like, I actually think I need someone who can devote their whole brain to my business. And, you know, I'm looking for kind of a specific person. So someone who wants to be a consultant, but does not want to do it alone, so wants to do all these items of owning your business without the risk of owning your business. So I think it's not like a very hard person to find, but just they also need to have, you know, eight years, ten years of fundraising experience. So it starts to become a very niche person. Oh, and they had to have the same community centric fundraising values as me, so started to become very niche, I think I forgot some part of your question, but that's. Oh, wait. Part of the decision also came from going to the make it happen conference, where I got to talk to some people.

[00:18:25 - 00:18:26]Yes, yes.

[00:18:27 - 00:19:00]Where I got to talk to some people about, like, why did you decide to move from a subcontractor to an employee model? Oh, and the cost difference. Yeah, it is cheaper right now for me. Ideally, what I'm hoping to do is this is, like, my long term, long term goal is have probably five consultants and then, like, maybe two or three right hands who manage these consultants. So five consultants would be, like, my. My ideal at three clients each, but it's a work in process. Yeah.

[00:19:00 - 00:19:30]So excited for you. And I know it's the scary thing to do. City notes. I was, like, terrified to pull the trigger, or I need to come up with a better phrase than that, but make the decision. And I'm. I know it's only been, like, three weeks, but I'm curious as to, like, what has opened up for you or what have some of the results been? Or even just, like, how are you feeling in your body and your mind now that you have this new support role? What's changed since. Since it's all happened?

[00:19:31 - 00:20:04]Yeah. So my calendar hasn't opened up yet, which is because I have two fundraising plans that started at the same time that she started. And she's learning. I'm not throwing her into the deep end. But, you know, what has really changed has been, like, a mindset shift of, like, oh, my God, like, I have to do everything. You know, I have to. You know, if I don't do it, it's not going to get done with her. I just feel like, oh, I can just give it to you and trust that it'll come back perfect, you know? And that is really different. It just gives me a little bit more peace.

[00:20:05 - 00:20:41]Okay, so that's amazing, and I love that for you. I love that for you. I can't wait for her to be full time someday so you can have more of that in a free calendar. I see it all happening. Let's switch a little bit to talk about how it is that you found since day one to not just be, like, absolutely consistently full, but have, like, a pipeline of clients who are just thirsty to work with you. So many people struggle in that area, and you don't seem to be struggling at all. So spill the secrets.

[00:20:42 - 00:24:51]Okay, so just going back to something that Cindy said, I am obviously very self-confident. I know that I can succeed. I've been through hell, through my personal life. Like, remember I came here as a refugee, you know? So I use that kind of belief of, like, I've been through anything. Like, nothing will keep me down long, if ever, you know? So that is just like a core trait of me because I don't know if it's like a trauma-based trait or something, but it's like a core trait. Like, I'm a perfectionist. I work really hard, and I know that hard work will actually keep me afloat always. So that's one part. Like, I'm always working really, really hard, and I work smart as well. When it comes to lead generation, I do that a few different ways. So I always try to maintain my pipeline, which was really scary after the first year because I signed on contracts in January to end in December, and then in December, nobody is looking for a fractional fundraiser because they're out fundraising, you know, November, December. So it was really. That was a learning curve for me. It's signed it in January, but ended in, like February, March. I know maybe it's common sense for other people, but for me, I did not get it. But when it comes to lead generation, I did a few things almost immediately. So set up a website. That was my first thing. Tell people on my network through LinkedIn. Like, I'm quitting my job and I'm doing it now. And here's my website that you can go look at, and you can also sign up for my LinkedIn page and sign up for my email subscribers. Right. My goal for my first year was I want to get 150 email subs. Like just 151st. I started with 50, but then it was 150. You know, you got to keep pushing it. Now I'm almost up to 2000, so I'm really excited. And it's only been a year and a half. I know, but, yeah, lead generation. So collecting emails, setting up my website, doing SEO around my website for the words that I want to rank, for organically setting up Google Ads. I have a lot of, like, marketing experience, so that's also really helpful in this case because some people I know would have to outsource it. But I think it's, like, just so critical to have. So my LinkedIn, I used to actively steward people and passively steward people with my content and bring people in that they might know. And then for people that I do know, how can I collaborate? What can we do to bring attention to both of our brands? Same thing with the podcast. Like, I'm looking for people to kind of get to know me. And get to know my brand and get to know my opinions, because those are the people who I want to work with the most, people who have similar beliefs and kind of work ethics and all that stuff. I also participate in some events that you've had. So I did the freebie extravaganza, which was really great in collecting more information from people. I do webinars, so I try to connect with established places that have networks within them so then I can benefit from that network. So I get people to actually sign up from the webinar and come to me. Oh, and then since December, I've been taking this course on how to do, like, cold outreach to leads. So that has been really interesting, and I've actually, through that, learned a few different pieces. So it was a very expensive course, but I'm glad that I took it because it actually gave me the opportunity to learn things that were new to me, which was nice. So I've optimized my LinkedIn to be a landing page. So now any cold outreach that's coming, like, through my LinkedIn, where I'm reaching out to people, they come and see my LinkedIn. It's a landing page of, like, all the social proof that I have. So there's me on tv, there's an article, there's me presenting, there's my clients saying how much they enjoy working with me. There's me sharing stuff from my clients LinkedIn pages to show, like, hey, I'm a very collaborative person to work with. Right? So that's part of the course. And then also, like, how to set up a LinkedIn webinar to address concerns people have before they get to you. So, like, kind of like a pre selling video, which I've developed the deck from, but not the actual event. So I'll let you know how that goes at a future session.

[00:24:56 - 00:25:00]All right, Maria, we are back for another round of rapid fire questions. You ready to play?

[00:25:01 - 00:25:02]Let's go.

[00:25:02 - 00:25:14]All right, so in your episode, you talked to us about your cold outreach strategy on LinkedIn, and you talked about a course and a coach you worked with to learn all this. Who is it, and what is the program called?

[00:25:14 - 00:25:21]Oh, no, I can't tell you that. I get a referral code for you. My referral code first.

[00:25:21 - 00:25:21]Sorry.

[00:25:22 - 00:25:26]All right, I guess DM. Maria, for the answer.

[00:25:26 - 00:25:28]DM for referral code.

[00:25:28 - 00:25:30]Like one of those Easter eggs.

[00:25:30 - 00:25:33]It's not cheap, though. It's not cheap, so just know that going in.

[00:25:34 - 00:25:48]Yeah, I actually wouldn't expect it to be so something that high value. Okay, my next question is, what works for you in LinkedIn? DM'S?

[00:25:49 - 00:27:06]I talk like myself all the time. So in my podcast, in my writing, like, my writing is a little bit more polished version of my thoughts, but the way that I talk is exactly like this. You know, with my little, like, sing songy and my, like, and my hand motions, whatever. And that's what I try to bring to DM's as well. So emojis. Sometimes I'm typing and I don't capitalize the I because I'm typing so fast. That's it. It's going like that. So it's just like whatever is kind of authentic to me and authentic to my relationship and comfort level with that person as well. So I may not always not capitalize the I when I'm talking to someone, but just like really letting them know through the only way that I can that I feel comfortable with you. Right? So it's like, hey, you seem like a good person. We seem like we're vibing. Like, I'm going to send you a smiley face. I'm going to send you this meme. I'm going to link you to this video that I think you'll like. And they return the favor, which is really nice. Like they'll, they'll send me a meme from Twitter that they saw or like recently someone sent me the study that, like, the Seattle chapter is doing around like CCF fundraising or something like that. So it's just like they get to know you through, like, your content and also through your personality that you can show through two sentences.

[00:27:07 - 00:27:22]And then on the flip side, what about for DM's that land in your inbox? Like we've all gotten them right, like, where people are just super salesy or whatever. So what's like a good intro to you or like when someone slides in.

[00:27:22 - 00:28:06]Your DM's so most people don't slide into my DM's that I can see. I used to get a lot more of those. But I don't know. I think the personalized aspect makes a big difference because the DM's that have gotten unexpectedly that have really stood out to me are from people who are looking to work together. Like, whether that's this new role that I posted or at past organizations, like, they know something about me. They make that clear. Like, hey, I love that episode that you did when blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, it shows that they have some understanding of like, my values brand X, Y and C. So we can have a conversation instead of, like, no personalization. I feel like that doesn't lend.

[00:28:06 - 00:28:40]Yeah, for sure. Okay. And then my last question is, as someone who's very well trained and well versed in community centric fundraising, I know that it's not totally apples to apples for nonprofit consultants marketing their business, but, like, what is a major marketing. No, no. In your book, especially for nonprofit consultants, like, what do you see out there nonprofit consultants doing maybe on LinkedIn, where you're just like, ooh, ick, yuck. No, stop doing that.

[00:28:41 - 00:29:57]I think there's a few different things, but I don't know. I think there's. Now, if I say this particular example, that person will definitely know I'm talking about them. But it's just like, I think that there's ways to talk about service users that do position them in a really, like, dignified manner. And I think that by putting donors on pedestals, when you're writing, it just comes across as really not understanding the needs of the community. So that's specific to, like, community centric fundraising, something that I see consultants do more often. That upsets me is, like, not trying. So, like, not being loud on LinkedIn because they're afraid to take up space and, like, who's going to listen? It's only consultants on LinkedIn, blah, blah, blah. You know, so, like, just not trying and making decisions based on that and, like, immediately writing it off as something that they could do. I feel like that upsets me more because it's like, is this, like, internalized sexism? Is it? I'm sure it is part of it. But, like, you got to be comfortable taking up space, especially if you have a good opinion, because there's a lot of consultants out there who have garbage opinions and who are very comfortable taking up space, like, who are harmful, you know? So if you're a non harmful, normal person, please take up space.

[00:29:57 - 00:30:00]Yeah, that was so good. Okay. Thanks for playing.

[00:30:04 - 00:30:34]I had a question, but now I kind of want to talk about the LinkedIn strategy. So let's stick with that, because I feel like that is. A lot of people are going to be like, tell us more. So, like, dive into this strategy a little bit more in terms of, like, how are you doing outreach? What do you still. Obviously, you still have to do that sort of, like, mini training thing. But, yeah, how are we driving? How are we connecting with people? Tell us. Spill the deeds.

[00:30:34 - 00:34:43]Yes. Yes. Okay. So there's so much to LinkedIn. And I actually just recorded an episode with Michelle Benson on how she uses LinkedIn to fundraise, which I'm like, LinkedIn is such an underutilized tool because I don't know how many people here have worked with algorithms. I'm assuming a lot, or maybe you are have some basic understanding of it. But basically there's so many things to LinkedIn that make it an ideal place for you to be. So first you can connect with decision makers without it being weird. You can find an ED and connect with them, and no one's going to blink twice. So that's one. If you are connecting and commenting specifically on people's posts, that actually also pushes the algorithm to look at your comment, to look at your profile. So that's another one. So engaging in like minded groups. I usually when I post content, will share it to a like minded group, like a CSR group or Ed's only group or fundraisers only group, that I'll do that. And then when it comes to optimizing my LinkedIn, you can see my profile picture is a very clear picture of my face is a professional picture. And then I have my header image, which is a quick call to action of what I do with my logo. I have my setup a call button set up, I have creator mode turned on. My about section is kind of like, here's how you know if we're a good fit. And then my featured is again, a lot of that social proof that I was talking about. And my recommendations are basically all there. So I have 17 received recommendations, and some of them are from people I've managed. Some of them are from people who have managed me, people who have provided services to. One of them is from Cindy, who is, you know, someone who's well recognized in our sector in her own right. So it's good to have like people like that in your recommendations, because it helps build trust in you and your brand. When it comes to outreach, I try to connect with people who are similar to me as much as possible. So like community centric fundraisers. So a lot of people don't know, but you can use LinkedIn, like the search box as a search URL. That's how you can use LinkedIn. So, for example, I'm looking for colleagues that are really good at fundraising because I am helping my client find a fundraiser to take on their director of development role. So, like, I know that people who fundraise for this company that I used to work at public outreach are really good fundraisers. So where are they now? So I just type in public outreach in the search box, and then I go through first connections. So people that I actually do know second and third. Right. But if I was prospect researching, maybe you could type in executive director or board chair or whoever you're trying to connect to. I don't know if you do B, two B or B, two C, but, like, use your own discretion there and then start connecting with people. Start messaging, start following, start interacting with our content, because that will get you noticed. So I talked about this in my episode with Michelle. Like, I followed a billionaire and then I just was commenting on their posts, and then they looked at my profile and, like, we're connected one on one, you know, and there's just, like, a few different opportunities on LinkedIn like that. Also, I have something called sales Navigator, which you do have to purchase, and it's a monthly subscription that will allow you to pull a list of your perfect leads. So mine is set for, like, let's say, people in BC, for example, people in BC who are executive directors, who are dods for vps of fundraising. These are my targets. And then I can exclude organizations that I don't want to work with. So I don't want to work with anything. Police, military, religious, anything like that. Sometimes their job title says retired or students, so I also exclude those. So you can get to a smaller and smaller list of people that you would want to work with. And that's basically LinkedIn, the active pieces of lead creation, and then the passive is the content. Right. So, like, showing your expertise and showing that you're someone to be trusted with their fundraising strategy, with their team, with their. Anything that they're looking for.

[00:34:45 - 00:35:21]So good, we might have to, like, have you back on for, like, the deeper, even deeper dive on all that. But that was really helpful. When you were talking, I was sitting here thinking, like, how much time a week do you spend on that? Because to your point earlier, you were saying, as far as your teammates go, like, it's a lot. Right? I mean, running the marketing side of your own business, let alone doing the client work, is a full time job. So I'm just wondering, like, how much time are you using marketing channels like email, like LinkedIn?

[00:35:22 - 00:35:22]Yeah.

[00:35:22 - 00:35:24]Let's start with that question first.

[00:35:24 - 00:37:29]All the time. My. My week is horrible. Like, I have ten meetings booked for tomorrow, so, like, you know, I don't want to. Yeah. And that's. That's like, my everyday. If I. I'll share my screen at some point later, but it's. It's horrible. And, like, that is something that I feel very fine with right now because I know it's not forever because I'm building up the systems, right? So at some points it's been easier, at some points it's been busier, and that's totally fine. But when it comes to the outreach, so I have passively generation, like my website, and then I have active ones. So for active ones, the content piece is actually the hardest thing to outsource because I write in a very specific, shit stirring way, you know, and it's very like, in your face, and you have to really understand fundraising to even get what I'm saying. So I can't outsource that, which sucks. I tried, it doesn't work. So that is something that I would spend the most amount of time on, which I don't have time to spend on that. So my LinkedIn posts are kind of like once every two weeks where it's like created by me exclusively. So it's not just content that I'm repurposing, like my podcast, it's like for LinkedIn content. When it comes to the active lead generation on LinkedIn or via email, that doesn't take me time, but it does cost me money because I have my VA working on that. So what my BA is doing is going through LinkedIn profiles and finding something that we have in common to write a personal lifeline to go to that person. So with sales navigator, like, I have free in mail credits, 150 inmail credits that I can reach out to, to possible prospects. And my VA is also looking through the list of sales navigator prospects to be like, okay, no, this person is not a good fit. Like, it might not say religion on the title, but it says, like, archdiocese. So they have to know, like, that's not someone that I want to work with and like, move on to the next prospect, but, like, they spent most of their time doing that. Like, it is about those personalized touches to then do the outreach.

[00:37:31 - 00:39:22]Okay. I also just want to, like, note, because I think it's important you kind of mentioned this. I guess I just want to underscore it. Like, you're good with this because you know what your goal is and your goal is rapid and significant growth. And I think when the work is aligned to that goal, it feels like I used to do that when I started and I had, like, I remember I used to have an office downtown with my small little team and they would all like, joke that I'd spend like a day doing discover, like discovery calls with people and like, they just hear me say the same thing over and over and over again and like I was fine with that because that was aligned. That was the work necessary to get to what my bigger goal was. And I think knowing and a lot like having that work be reflective of the growth and sizes that you want your business. If you're just trying to get, like, three clients and it's just you and, like, whatever, then, no, it should not be that much work. But I agree with you. You are going to make this happen. Like, there is no. Your confidence is well deserved. And I also think that confidence actually is a condition for success. Like, I think the more confident you are, the more likely you are to be successful, which is a whole other conversation. But anyways, I just want to mention that because I think that some people get overwhelmed. Like, I don't want to do all of that work. Well, like, then don't have a business where you want, like, five employees and three, like, I guess eight employees and a bunch of assistants and stuff like that. Like, that doesn't have to be your dream. Anyways, we are running out of time, and so I want to make sure we ask you for a confession. So what's something that maybe you haven't shared before or you're reluctant to share about running your business?

[00:39:23 - 00:40:24]Yeah, I think some of it has made me feel dumber than I normally feel. For example, I had someone who I was like, oh, I'll get another subcontractor to help with grants last year. And because retainers pay me up front, I paid her upfront. And, like, she took my $2,000 and left, you know? So, yeah, yeah. Some of it has made me feel, like, dumber and, like, more trusting. And some of it has been actually very difficult because, for example, with us, we're friends. We're friends and we work together. So that is, like, something that we have to sometimes talk about. Not always, obviously, but, like, you know, that has been interesting to navigate. And for me, another thing that is always on the back of my mind is no one's going to stop me. So when do I stop myself? Like, ten meetings tomorrow is nuts. I don't have time to even, like, go to the washroom, you know? So, like, where do you set that boundary for yourself? And I don't think I've figured that out just yet, so. Oh, I have another one.

[00:40:24 - 00:40:25]Yeah, please.

[00:40:25 - 00:41:04]I was like, I've been talking to my therapist about this one. Okay. So if you have an issue. So, like, one of my vas is fine. Fine. You know, like, I'm not in love with her. Like, she's not crushing it. And I kind of really need to work with excellent people. But now, okay, do I continue working with you or not? The thought is like, oh, it's not because you're not meeting the organization's needs, you know, it's because I don't think you're good enough to work with me. And that feels so different. Like, I've fired people before, but this just feels so like it's not personal, but it is because it's just me. I'm the decision maker, you know?

[00:41:04 - 00:41:42]Yeah, it is. Yeah. That's a hard one. That's really hard. Well, thank you for sharing those because they're, again, hashtag relatable. Do people still do that? Not really. But they're definitely very relatable and very much things that I don't think go away necessarily. Especially the part, like, about learning new things, because these are, you haven't done this before, so that doesn't go away. Maria, you so much for coming on the podcast and for just being so wonderful and kicking ass on so many levels. Where can people connect with you online?

[00:41:43 - 00:42:06]Okay, so I have my own podcast, which you might already be subscribed to if you know Cindy, the small nonprofit podcast. But I love LinkedIn. LinkedIn is my way. Like, it's my favorite social media platform, I think, by far right now. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Maria Rio. Rio like the place. Or you can sign up for my email subscription on my website. Gofurther together, ca thank you.

[00:42:06 - 00:42:07]Thank you, Maria.

[00:42:08 - 00:42:10]Thank you both. This was lovely.

[00:42:12 - 00:42:23]Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.

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