From People Pleaser to Boundary Boss with Rachel Zant
That thing that you most feel ashamed of or fearful of is actually probably the thing that you most need to embrace and shine out into the world. - Rachel Zant
From People Pleaser to Boundary Boss with Rachel Zant
Rachel Zant of Pen With a Purpose shares her journey from agency workhorse to boundary-setting badass. With 25 years of fundraising copywriting under her belt, Rachel dishes on the ups and downs of running a successful consulting biz while juggling motherhood and the constant urge to say "yes" to everything.
From charging what she's worth (spoiler: it's way more than when she started) to firing clients who don't respect her expertise, Rachel keeps it real about the struggles and triumphs of being a solopreneur in the nonprofit world. She even shares her secret sauce for packaging her services and why she's totally cool with sometimes choosing Netflix over networking.
Get ready for a no-holds-barred chat about embracing your true self in business, even if that means ugly crying in client meetings.
Key Takeaways:
Ditching the hourly rate trap: Rachel breaks down her journey to value-based pricing and why it's a game-changer for your bank account and your sanity.
The art of the graceful "no": Learn how setting boundaries can actually lead to more fulfilling work and happier clients (yes, really!).
Embrace your quirks: Rachel spills on how leaning into her emotional side made her more successful, not less "professional".
Balance is bull... but priorities are everything: Get the scoop on how Rachel juggles single motherhood, client work, and self-care (hint: sometimes self-care wins).
Your expertise has value: Discover why it's okay to charge premium prices and fire clients who don't respect your experience. (Your future self will thank you!)
Timestamp summary:
[00:01:31] Introduction of Rachel Zant from Pen With a Purpose
[00:02:58] Rachel explains her background in direct response fundraising and current work as a copywriter for nonprofits
[00:04:50] Discussion of Rachel's client mix: agencies vs. direct nonprofit clients
[00:05:57] Rachel's journey from freelancer to business owner mindset
[00:07:45] Insights into working with agencies as a subcontractor
[00:10:52] How Rachel decides on workload and manages client relationships
[00:13:00] Rachel's approach to pricing her services and dealing with agency budgets
[00:18:42] Rapid-fire questions segment
[00:21:07] Dealing with pushback on pricing and value-based fees
[00:24:09] How Rachel manages her capacity and project timelines
[00:27:41] Handling challenging clients and setting boundaries
[00:30:48] Balancing client work with personal brand content creation
[00:34:48] Rachel's confession about embracing vulnerability in her work
[00:36:34] Where to find and connect with Rachel online
[00:37:07] Wrap-up and Rachel's first podcast experience
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com
Connect with Rachel:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelzant/
Website: https://www.penwithapurpose.com/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/
Transcript:
[00:01:31] Cindy: Hey, Jess. Hi, Cindy. Hello, listeners. Welcome back.
[00:01:38] Jess: Congratulations to all the parents who hopefully have children in school.
[00:01:43] Cindy: Yes, we are fully, I feel like all of North America is now back in school. thank goodness. It is, it feels so nice.
[00:01:53] Jess: Yeah, that's, we need to actually, I think, have a conversation around, working, entrepreneuring and parenting at some point.
[00:02:00] Yeah. Definitely. It's a, it's a thing. It's a thing.
[00:02:05] Cindy: Yeah. Yeah. And today's conversation might go there a little bit too, so we'll see, because our guest today, Rachel Zandt from Pen With a Purpose, is also a parent, and, I think A fantastic writer. Rachel, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
[00:02:22] So exciting. So happy to have you here. So for those of you who don't know you and before I get you to introduce yourself, I have to say you're one of the, one of the consultants where I always talk about these kinds of. Like successful people who are, working in the backgrounds. Like I think a lot of times people think Oh, I have to have a big LinkedIn presence and blah, blah, blah.
[00:02:50] And have all these things, write a book, host a podcast to be successful. But most people who are successful are just like, Doing the good work, and I feel like you're one of those people, so for those of our listeners who don't know you, because you maybe are a little quieter in the background, tell us who you are and what you do and how you get paid.
[00:03:10] Rachel: Okay, thanks. That's like the curse of being the writer, and the introvert. I'm like highly self assured. I'm a sensitive, quiet person and, I do try to put myself out there, but yeah, it's hard. I get paid, mostly by providing direct response copy to non profits, or consultants, agencies that work with non profits, you might even, at one point, I would have called myself a freelance copywriter, and we can get into that, because I'm like, no, I'm more than that, I have a business, and I need to operate.
[00:03:40] I've got more than 25, almost 25 years of experience working in direct response fundraising. I've worked at just direct response fundraising agencies. I started with Harvey McKinnon Associates years ago. And today I provide, full direct response package copy for a lot of different nonprofit clients I do emails and landing pages I write copy for newsletters and full gratitude reports and case for supports and.
[00:04:11] All those kinds of things, really anything where you need, communication in a beautiful, feelings based way that, and mostly that helps nonprofits raise more money, and communicate with donors. I also do a little bit of coaching, and I can do audits, and all that kind of stuff, and I do some speaking as well, but my core service offering is mostly writing copy for nonprofits.
[00:04:35] Jess: Amazing, and I'm curious, how many clients on an annual basis do you generally work with? And what percentage of those are repeat retainer type clients versus new business?
[00:04:50] Rachel: Mm hmm. I have about three or four agencies that I work for, and then they've got a number of clients that come in.
[00:04:58] And then I probably have another, five to 10, I would say, direct clients. to client relationships that sort of cycle in and out. And, it changes from year to year. Some of the agencies I've been working with for 10, 15 years, and then others I've just started with, and some come and go, and then same thing, the direct to client, that's something I'm starting to build up more, is working directly with clients.
[00:05:24] and some of those will be just for a project here or a project there, and sometimes it will be for a longer ongoing thing.
[00:05:32] Cindy: Okay, do you have a preference in terms of who you work with? And I feel like that ties back to this idea of like freelancer versus running a business. Am I right? tell me about your thoughts and like growth or change over time in terms of how you position yourself and the kinds of client work you want to be doing.
[00:05:57] Rachel: Mm hmm. I like Some of the agency work is nice because it, is regular, I can depend on it, it's like that, I don't know, in business, I took a business degree years ago, but it's like that cash cow,it can always come, but I charge a bit less to agencies because they do a lot of the client work and handholding and dealing with edits and things like that, whereas, direct to client, I offer more strategy, I have a little bit more control in the types of things that I write and the types of, I can often ask to do donor interviews, which I really love, or interviews with,met beneficiaries, and that really helps me to do better work, I find, whereas with the agencies, they've got their whole strategic team, and often by the time I get a brief to write something, I've only got a week or something to write it, and I just have to deal with what they've given me.
[00:06:54] it sounds as I'm saying this, I prefer working with, direct to non profit clients, but I, I will always have a balance of both, because when you want to be able to plan your money coming in in the future and I can generally rely on the fact that agencies are going to be giving me work in the long term, although that's not always the case and I can talk a bit more about that in a bit.
[00:07:17] But, yeah, let's let's just talk
[00:07:19] Jess: about these agencies because I actually feel like this conversation has been coming up. a little bit in the building better together community where people are asking about what it looks like to subcontract for an agency. the pros, the cons, all these things. And so I am curious, since you have a split of your business model, like what attracted you to that type of,working relationship, is it just something you sort of.
[00:07:45] and then it's just continued on, take us back to the, to the beginnings of how that even came about.
[00:07:52] Rachel: I can take you back to the very beginning because I started at an agency and I worked with Harvey and I was his executive assistant even. And so I really learned on the job, like Harvey would dictate his fundraising letters because he had carpal tunnel, so he would dictate his letters.
[00:08:09] And I would learn, fundraising. Direct response fundraising copy is supposed to be very conversational, right? And sound one person speaking to another person. So that really helped me learn how to write really good conversational copy. And then I learned, I worked my way up through that to being an account manager and account director, and I was managing like four.
[00:08:29] and we have a full multi, multi million dollar, fundraising campaigns for clients. So I, and I was working with the copywriters and the designers and understood that whole process, right? Like, how that works, working in an agency and working with the contractors. So then when you flip it to be on the other side, I have a really good, intimate understanding of what it's like to work with someone like me, and I also know how to deliver what the account manager or the account director's looking for a letter or in a copywriter, right?
[00:09:00] so I started when I left Harvey MacKinnon, just doing some work for him and some of his account managers. And then just, I don't know, there's a small agency, especially in Canada, there's a small agency sort of network. There's only so many and there's only so few. There are so many people that do the kind of work that I do and understand and can do it really well.
[00:09:20] I think in the United States, it's maybe a little bit different but, so word of mouth and you know the agency directors talking to each other and do you have a copywriter and then I would get referred. So a lot, a lot of my work is very referral based. People just saying, do you have a, do you work with any good copywriters?
[00:09:38] And then another agency will get in touch with me. And then that's also how I started to get my direct client work is because agencies charge pretty high fees. And sometimes a client would say, Hey, we'd like you to do this work. And the agency would be like, you can't afford us, but how would I refer you to a copywriter who could give you the money?
[00:09:59] Leveled down service or leveled down work. so that's how that started as a bit of word of mouth and just getting in the door and once you get in the door with an agency, they've got a vast array of clients and if you start to do good work, one account manager talks to another and then they start to give you more work.
[00:10:19] And it's just blooms from there. I think. Is that that answer the question? I think it did.
[00:10:25] Cindy: Yeah.Given that there can be so much work and where you have these agency relationships, how do you decide, like, how much work you want to be doing? is there ever a time, it sounds like there's balancing a lot of those things, like how much work for an agency versus how much for, direct to client?
[00:10:52] And obviously, Those agencies are hiring you again and again and again, so those relationships are really important with them, but relationships with your existing clients are really important. So can you say no to work? Do you say no to work? How do you decide how much you want to be doing? Mm hmm.
[00:11:12] Rachel: Yeah, and I think that depends, like, when I was starting out, I started doing this freelancing when I had young kids, and it was easy to do from home, and I, I think about it now, and I was like, no, I can only write one letter a week. It was really basic, really small, and now I'm to the point where I'm like, I can only really manage, a whole package a day or something, right?
[00:11:33] And I think, wow, like, how much it's changed and how much I can do. And part of that came from working with the agencies and going, ooh, should I, can I say I'll take one more? Because, the money talks in my head sometimes, because I get paid per package, and I think, can I squeeze one more in?
[00:11:52] For a long time, I was saying yes to everything and then burnout, I think, especially during COVID, it was just like, it's too much and it's all blending in my brain together. And so I did have to start saying, no, I choose work life balance. And, I have to say no to some of these things that are all coming in in the same week because With direct response, there's very much a deadline oriented, way of doing this work, and, there would be six things that all need to be done in the same day, or the same week, or with the same deadlines.
[00:12:25] And I don't, I don't do my best creative work when I have to do a whole bunch at once. I need to be able to, sit and focus and have the time and the space to be creative with it. I think that was part of it, as I had, I did, I had to say no to some of the agency work, because it started, I call it churn and burn, it started to just feel like churn and burn, let's just get it done, do it, you know, and they would even say, hey, it just needs to be like last year, and write this, and make a few edits, and out it would go, and I would feel tempted, like this is, This is easy, easy to do.
[00:13:01] I'll just quickly do these and, write it based on last year and out it goes, but that's very anti what I believe in, which is I want these Letters and this e these emails to feel authentic and genuine and like they're written by a real person. And, and I wasn't getting that with some of the agency work.
[00:13:22] I was getting a lot of frequent good paying work, but it wasn't filling my, personal bucket or really I wasn't.walking the talk of what I would then be speaking about to other people, which is write more with more feeling and be more authentic and tell really good stories. And then the agency work, some of it would be like, I don't, we don't have a story.
[00:13:48] Maybe you could just be creative and come up, you know, that kind of stuff. And it just starts, you know, there was a point in there, I was like, this doesn't feel right. But how do I say no to all this great money coming in and open up space so that some of the better, more meaningful work could come in.
[00:14:07] And that was a hard choice that I had to make earlier this year. In fact,I had to say, I finally just got to the point where I was like, I have to say no. And they were like, okay, we'll give you these other clients. And then those suddenly fell through. And there was a point where I was like, I've just I suddenly said no to, 90, 000 worth of work.
[00:14:29] last year, I got about that from this one agency. And all of a sudden, I had, I think, maybe 5, 000 worth of work that was looking to come this year from them. And I was like, ooh, what have I done? And now, there's All some great new work and great new clients have all come and flowed in and then so,it's, it's tricky.
[00:14:55] It's, I'm grateful that I did that, but it's tough, right?
[00:14:58] Jess: Yeah, for sure. And we talked about this a lot on the podcast that, whatever you say yes to is saying no to something else and vice versa. So you have to make sometimes those,calculated guesses. and I'm not gonna lie. A lot of it's probably like a hope and a prayer to, like wishing the universal, provide, One thing I'm wondering about for people who are listening to this and they're either thinking for themselves, Ooh, like this agency model is something that I might really get behind, or maybe there's someone that is interested in hiring someone, to start building out a mini agency.
[00:15:36] I'm curious as the service provider, like how does that pace split? Is it Like, I just have no idea. you mentioned that you get paid, as part of a package. but I know packages. range in size. So I'm also curious, is that something that the agency set or is that a price you set and told the agency, this is what I do?
[00:16:01] yeah. How does that work?
[00:16:03] Rachel: yeah, it's a bit of both. I think when I started, this is part of that thing when I've got some agencies that I've worked with for a long time and the prices I was charging when I was less experienced or, both as a business person and just You know, as a writer, was charging quite a bit less, and wasn't as good as trying to increase those fees, and then newer agencies or newer clients, I've prepared a price list, it's very detailed, like a, copy for a two page letter is, This price copy for a four page letter is this price if you want to lift note, it's this price, right?
[00:16:41] So there's very you know, because direct mail in particular can have a lot of different pieces in it So being really specific about What every piece is gonna add if i'm adding, you know Because some i've worked with clients that have like still You know, three lift notes, and a four page letter, and reply form copy, and the copy for the outer envelope.
[00:17:02] So that package is obviously going to have a lot higher quote than, than the lower package cover, like things that just have one letter. mostly with the agencies now, I provide a quote for, they tell me the brief, and here's how many pieces, here's what's involved, and I give them a quote, and they approve and say, yeah.
[00:17:21] We go with that and it's, they've got their own budget for what they're charging and what they can, their client can afford to pay for copy and we go from there. So I have it all broken out very specifically,
[00:17:33] Cindy: Love, love, love that. I just think it's like the, based on deliverables and all of that.
[00:17:40] Do you ever get pushback from either the agencies or direct a client around. Like how many hours because that's something I think a lot of people struggle with is like They struggle with that transition from hourly pay to product or cert like package based pricing And I love that you're just like not just is it a package?
[00:18:04] It's each single piece of deliverable is priced differently how Yeah, tell us about like You Do you ever get pushback around that? Does anyone question how, how long it takes you to do things? How do you manage timelines and expectations with clients? I'd love to just talk about that. And do you track your time?
[00:18:25] Do you have a sense of how, does it matter to you how long things will do, will take? how have you, identified what your capacity is? Based on this? That's a lot of questions. I'm
[00:18:37] sorry.
[00:18:38]
[00:18:42] Jess: All right, Rachel. We're back for another round of our rapid fire questions. You ready to play? Yes. What is your zodiac sign? Ooh, Capricorn. And do you identify as it?
[00:18:56] Rachel: I do, although I'm on the cusp of Aquarius, so I'd say I've got a bit of Aquarius in me as well, but yeah.
[00:19:03] Jess: Okay. What is your best mom hack?
[00:19:08] Rachel: Oh, my best mom hack.
[00:19:10] Oh, dang. That is gonna catch me off guard. What is my best mom hack? Dang. I don't even know. Can I tell you,
[00:19:22] Cindy: it just made me think of a funny fact that someone mentioned to me the other day that we used to do with our kids is, we never bought them pajamas, we used to put them to sleep in their clothes for the next day.
[00:19:37] Because they always wore like sweatpants and T shirts and so we're like, okay, you can sleep in that, right? what's the difference? So that's my, I'm not in the hot seat on this, but I just think it's funny. Funny. So that's my mom hack. They're too old for that now though.
[00:19:56] Rachel: Awesome. Yes, mine would not do that either.
[00:19:58] I honestly like I, that'll be my confession, like I actually have zero mom, mom hacks. And I will say just the fact that I'm like, Oh my God, I don't have a mom hack. What's wrong with me? I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's Maybe that's your hack, not having a hack. Maybe that's my hack, not having a hack.
[00:20:14] And I probably do, but at the moment I can't think of one.
[00:20:18] Jess: All good. Okay, last question. What is a brand or a non profit that is producing content well, in your opinion?
[00:20:26] Rachel: I will lean into the BC SPCA, the British Columbia Society of Protection for Animals. I worked with them for a while and honestly they just have it, down, especially as far as digital fundraising is concerned.
[00:20:44] for me, because I'm so fundraising focused, I would say if anybody wants to figure out how to up level their digital fundraising program to check out the BCSPCA's website and get in touch with some of their team because they're doing awesome stuff.
[00:21:00] Jess: Awesome. Thanks for playing. Thank you.
[00:21:03]
[00:21:07] Rachel: It's awesome. so pushback, I, I haven't got the pushback about hourly. I have had clients say, like, how do you charge?
[00:21:16] Do you do hourly versus? And I just have always been packaged,in my brain I have in the past gone like how many hours do I think it's going to take when I was You know less experienced and it did take me longer and now but that's where I'm like you know I get a bit of the guilt like should I be charging more when it actually takes me less time and my partner john is and I mean you cindy and just hearing these discussions.
[00:21:42] It's No It shouldn't matter. It's my experience and my expertise, and all the years I've been doing this, it makes me write that more quickly and better, and why should I be charging less for that, Like, why should I get penalized for being Good at something. So yeah, I'm charging based on my expertise and all the vast years of experience I have doing this and the fact that people generally don't send me back a whole ton of edits on things.
[00:22:16] Generally the client, like the agencies like that because they don't get a lot of pushback from their clients about my copy versus others they get let's be real, some clients just have a lot of edits and a lot of pushback, but generally, if it's not that kind of client, then, so yes, as far as that goes, I do sometimes still, and that's part of my challenge working with some agencies, is they just have to, they have to make money themselves, and as I start to increase my prices, some of the agencies are like, our clients just can't.
[00:22:50] afford this, right? It doesn't, it doesn't work in their model of pricing that if I start charging more they make less or the client has to pay more and, so I, I think we've had this conversation before. I do struggle with the fact that I know I'm writing something that is taking a chunk out of the charity's, non profit's budget and how much they're making.
[00:23:13] But also I have to live and I'm a single, I, I don't have a partner that helps supplement my income. Like I have to depend on all the income that I make to look after my kids, right? So I need to be able to, make a good living too. And I've been doing this a long time and I think I deserve to be paid for it.
[00:23:34] So,there were other questions in there. What were they?
[00:23:37] Cindy: Okay.The pushback. Oh, in terms of do you still track or have a sense of not necessarily do you track, but like, how do you think about your capacity? if you're not tracking hours, and you have. X amount of time and these different client projects.
[00:23:57] How do you determine what, or are there times where you're just really, really busy or how do you keep track of when it's time to say no from a capacity perspective?
[00:24:09] Rachel: Yeah, it's a good question. And honestly, sometimes it just gets out of hand, but generally I track because direct response is so deadline oriented and I have Trello, I used a Trello board that has start and end dates for projects and I can look and see.
[00:24:28] Oh, there's an overlap. And like I said, I have in my brain, I can manage X number of projects a week, usually, depending how many pieces are in each. so I do it that way. And then if I just because I, I am very deadline driven. And if I I think I'm not going to be able to hit a deadline, I won't, I just, I would die a thousand deaths not hitting a deadline, even though I know that, I, I get, it kills me because I send stuff to clients and then I find out that they haven't sent it to the client for a week or two after that.
[00:25:01] And I'm like, why did I kill myself trying to send this to you? but anyways. so for me it's about that and also, yeah, I mean I really do try to be mindful and take time off in the afternoons and, be conscious that I want to live my life, like I'm working to live, not living to work. And I know that I only have certain amount of time in a day.
[00:25:26] I also am only creative for a certain number of hours in a day. So I know I'm only going to be able to write for probably three to four hours effectively in a day. so all that factors in. And I do, I've gotten in my brain to a point where I charge in 250 increments. And that's like a half an hour of time and 500.
[00:25:48] for an hour like I'm that's that's what I charge and might just be a writer but I'm not charging 75 bucks an hour like I'm charging like 500 bucks plus an hour kind of that's kind of where it's in my brain you know so so yeah
[00:26:06] Cindy: I love that and that like to your point earlier like People are getting your expertise and your experience and all of the things.
[00:26:15] And you know what? Like people, I know because they've balked at my pricing before they're going to, when you say I charge 500 an hour, when you say, Oh no, this package is X like, Oh, okay. yeah, but I agree. Like we've worked hard to get to where we are and build the expertise that we have. All right.
[00:26:36] I want to take a little bit of a. Veer off, To the side a little bit with this next question. Because I feel like consultants all experience this at some point. Which is clients who think that they know better than you. That they're more expert than you. Or that some board member told them that To think about things differently or I will always remember when I started fundraising, I wrote a four page appeal letter that was story based and my board member took a red pen in front of me, like literally crossed out pages and said it should be a page and a half with stats.
[00:27:17] And I was like, you're just wrong. So I feel like we all have clients who are wrong about things, but I feel like in writing and direct appeal, it comes out more. So how do you feel about having dealt with that? How do you deal with those kinds of clients? what's that been like?
[00:27:41] Rachel: That's a great question.
[00:27:42] And I'll be honest, especially with the agencies for the those challenging, I would call clients where They would come back, and I call it like Franken copy, there's literally five people have edited it and put in their edits, and it's like the chalk changes version of, I don't know, it's just like a rainbow of copy edits, and, and I would expect the account manager in this case to manage that and go back to the client, but sometimes they just flip it over to me and you deal with it.
[00:28:17] I've, I've fired those clients, I do. I, I, and I've gotten to that guess, I have the luxury at that point of knowing that other work will come, and within reason, I wouldn't, the first time I would have a conversation and explain direct response. Expertise and years and years of experience, and this is what works.
[00:28:38] And if they still push back and they still won't listen, then I'm just like, there's no point in you hiring me to do this work if you're gonna just edit it. So you might as well just take your money elsewhere and do that yourself. I just, I don't have any patience for it anymore, I think generally now people come to me because they've seen the type of writing that I do and they want more of that type of writing, which is more feelings based.
[00:29:05] And I'm trying more, I need to get better at being out on LinkedIn and being out there more and blogging more, where I really do speak to that. So I feel like I attract the types of Clients now who generally are drinking that Kool Aid, I want that kind of work, but definitely in the past, I either do one of two things, I would speak up or I would just go, okay, I don't recommend it, but okay, it's yours and here you go.
[00:29:35] Because I'm not directly responsible for the results, but I would always say, I don't recommend that, it's your choice, as a client if you want to make that, I've been doing this for almost 25 years and there's so much tried and true direct response practice out there that longer, longer letters do better, and big large type font, and lots of you language, and all of that is what works.
[00:30:02] And if your board member thinks differently, They should become responsible for the results, or you should do a test, and you should see, and, I get, I get, I grow weary of these conversations with clients sometimes, so I definitely try to just attract clients who are already drinking that Kool Aid now, but.
[00:30:22] I suppose that is coming from a place of privilege where I've gotten to the place where I can do that,
[00:30:28] Jess: Yeah. And I, oh, it's tough. I've been right there with you. okay, so one of the things that you were just saying is, I know I should be out on LinkedIn more, I know I should be doing more blogs, and I'm curious because, You and I do similar work and so we are just like pumping out content, right?
[00:30:48] And people will say things to me like, Jess, these stories just pour out of you. And, and in some cases they do, but it's also A practice, right? Like I didn't start this way. It's been taking place over many years. And I'm just curious how you handle content for yourself and the promotion of your business and fight, do you prioritize that or is that the last thing on the list?
[00:31:11] Like, how do you think about Rachel's Zant content versus just the content you produce for your clients? Because unlike different types of consultants, it's just a lot of create. Creative energy, a lot
[00:31:29] Rachel: of just content production. It is. And I think that's what I was saying that to someone the other day, that I'm great at creating a copy deck and a schedule.
[00:31:41] And here's what this email should say. And I'm going to do the schedule of six to ten emails and block it all out for clients. But I don't do it for myself. I haven't gotten myself to the place yet where I, I write.and I struggle with that because I am about this authenticity and being real and It just feels stilted and not in the moment if I'm writing something for my own list or for LinkedIn to try and do it like that.
[00:32:13] I've thought about that batch content and stuff like that, so I'm not great at it. I'm hit and miss and I'll be good and I'll post something every week for a while, or I'll, do an email every week for a while and then I'll. fall off the bandwagon. And so I'm, my consistency, it's like the shoemakers kids, right?
[00:32:34] Like my own list, my own clients don't get the, the same love and attention and consistency that my clients that. Pay me, get, because again, I think I value, oh, I, I definitely put, I hit those deadlines for my clients, but I don't treat myself with the same, respect and I guess sometimes, right? I definitely, yeah, I could do better for my own business, but I also am not like dying for work either.
[00:33:07] That's
[00:33:07] Cindy: exactly what I was going to ask. I was like, why is that important? You're not. and I suspect when you do have downtime, it's probably pretty welcome because your work can be so seasonal and intense.so like, why do you feel pressure to do those things?
[00:33:24] Rachel: I think because that illusion or the hope that down the road I'm going to be able to have a little more of a recurring something coming through or, I'll be able to work towards doing some courses or a book or those kinds of things so I know intuitively and also just from people saying that building a responsive list of people who like to read what I write in a different way than clients is Is gonna benefit me down the road if I wanna, sell a book or do some courses or, do some more speaking where I'd like to go out and be paid when I can leave my kids a little more easily, So that's all just up there in my brain but, I know it's not like a right now priority but again two years from now I can look back and go, geez, I wish I had built that list more. So I'm like trying to.so I think that's the reasoning behind it is just, I, I know that it will be a good thing down the road.
[00:34:24] So why not now, but yeah,
[00:34:28] Cindy: yeah, totally fair. Yeah. okay. Time has flown, but I feel like we need to get, get our confessions question in. Rachel, tell us, A confession. Tell us something about running your business or, doing, doing work in the nonprofit sector that maybe you haven't told anyone else.
[00:34:48] Rachel: Yeah, I think my big confession is it's taken me until just like really in the last couple years even to really embrace and walk the talk as in like I've always shied away and been a bit ashamed of my own vulnerability and feelings and I wear my heart on my sleeve and I cry in meetings and and I've always tried to You know, hide that a bit and try to be professional while also knowing generally no one would ever think of me as very professional,as in the traditional model.
[00:35:25] So I think once I finally feel like I've really embraced know this is who I am and I come from a place of feeling and vulnerability and I'm weaving that into the very essence of my work and my business and the work that I do. That is made me much more successful and much more at ease in the work that I'm doing and help me connect more.
[00:35:52] So it's like that thing that you most feel ashamed of or fearful of is actually probably the thing that you most need to embrace and shine out into the world. that would be, I think, my.
[00:36:07] Cindy: I love that and I feel like that's such a beautiful sentiment to wrap up on because I think so many people try and show up in this way they think they should show up instead of what's authentic to them.
[00:36:21] And as soon as they do, it's like everything else falls into place. So yeah, that's lovely. Where can our listeners connect with you, hang out online, and learn more about what you're doing?
[00:36:34] Rachel: I'm on LinkedIn, Rachel Zant, and my website is penwithapurpose. com, and I have a email newsletter, which you clearly will not get bombarded with emails on.
[00:36:48] but you can have a blog. so those are the best places is LinkedIn and or through my website, shoot me an email and I'm always happy to chat or connect.
[00:36:58] Jess: Amazing. Thanks so much. Rachel. So much. Nice hearing about your business.
[00:37:03] Rachel: This is my first podcast, so I totally appreciate you guys, helping me ease into it.
[00:37:07] Cindy: And we, I will share this because I think it's funny, it's not just your first podcast guessing on, I think it's also the first podcast you've ever listened to, so hopefully, hopefully you've gotten value out of the ones you've listened to in the past, but if your podcasts are not your thing, we will not hold it against you.
[00:37:28] Rachel: Thank you, you're gonna convert me, it's gonna happen.
[00:37:31] Cindy: Yay. All right. Thanks, everyone. See you next time.