“At the end of the day, if you don't see the value of what I'm offering or you aren't willing to find the money to make it happen, then you're probably not the person I wanna work with. The people I wanna work with are ready to say yes and ready to make a change. ” - Rhea Wong

Tune into this episode of Confessions Podcast with your hosts, Jess and Cindy, as we talk with Rhea Wong on how she created and scaled her $7500 signature program.

Rhea drops so many golden truth bombs about fundraising, building businesses and the power of consistency as she shares the knowledge she learned from her journey. She is the founder of Rhea Wong Consulting (obviously) and she works specifically with nonprofit organizations to raise major gifts.

We’re basically fangirling over Rhea in this episode and we’re sure you’d love her even more!

Highlights:

1. Rhea’s journey to building Rhea Wong Consulting that made her realize, “Why did it take me so long to do this?”

2. ‘It’s not you, it’s them’ - why people still won’t work with you even if you had tons of great feedback.

3. Starting your email list from the people you know because as Cindy said, “Who the hell else are you gonna know?”

4. Consistency is key! Rhea shares how she wears multiple hats by maintaining a schedule.

Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

• Rhea Wong Consulting

• Get That Money, Honey! By Rhea Wong

Connect with Rhea Wong: 

Website: https://www.rheawong.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rheawong/

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nonprofit-lowdown/id1436858854

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions Podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

[00:00:05] Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.

[00:00:13] Cindy: After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

[00:00:22] Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark, by pulling back the curtain.

[00:00:32] Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

[00:00:53] Jess: No more gatekeeping. No more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like.

[00:01:05] Basically we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid and what has, and hasn't worked in their businesses.

[00:01:13] Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're gonna empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

[00:01:29] Jess: You ready? Let's go.

[00:01:34] We're so pumped, you've tuned into the Confessions Podcast where we're pulling back the curtain on all things nonprofit coaching and consulting to keep things super fun. We're doing a giveaway to celebrate our launch.

[00:01:47] Cindy: Woohoo. We've rounded up our four favorite business goodies to help you build your business. To enter, all you have to do is share your favorite episode on social media, tagging @outintheboons_ and cindywagman.com_coaching.

[00:02:04] Jess: Or DM us a screenshot of your subscription rating or review.

[00:02:09] Cindy: The giveaway ends on September 30th. Good luck.

[00:02:15] Hey, Jess.

[00:02:16] Jess: Hey Cindy.

[00:02:19] Cindy: I love, love, love today's episode of the podcast with our friend Rhea Wong from Rhea Wong Consulting.

[00:02:27] It is like so candid. It's amazing.

[00:02:31] Jess: I don't know about you before talking to Rhea. I've known her for a bit now. I was such a fan girl before, you know, and I think that that probably happens to you too. Yeah. Where we see all these people, you know, out on LinkedIn or we're on their email list or we see them speaking on stages.

[00:02:49] And she's one of those people for me that represents excellence in this podcast episode, this conversation with her just took that fan girl for me to the next level.

[00:02:59] Cindy: Yeah. I a hundred percent agree. I just like everything she said I was nodding along. I was like, yes. And just so down to earth about it too.

[00:03:10] Like one of my favorite things she said was about starting her email list and how she just took her contacts and like started with that. And I think what we see when we look at other business, people is like, oh, they have a list of 2000 people or 20,000 people. They all started with their personal contacts.

[00:03:32] And I, that comes up a lot with my coaching clients. They're like, I don't have an email list. I don't know who to contact. There's so much raw, you know, this is how it actually works in this episode. I'm so excited for all of you, our listeners to hear.

[00:03:48] Jess: Another thing that I really loved is, you know, Rhea works specifically with nonprofits working to raise major gifts, which for any fundraisers out there is a real mental exercise of courage as our friend, Julie Ordon likes to talk about and.

[00:04:08] I loved what she teaches her students. She also talked about practicing because as a business owner, doing this entrepreneurship game is like the ultimate test of your mental strength and your professional ability to bend and weave and change and alter. And she just gave some really good examples of how she keeps that in check for herself personally, I also really admire the fact that she's out here wanting to make a very good living for herself and not work, you know, endless backbreaking hours.

[00:04:46] Yeah. And she's unapologetic about that.

[00:04:49] Cindy: And like she has a book, which is amazing. And it's about fundraising. It's called Get That Money, Honey! But honestly that title can apply to consultants as well. And yeah, it's about like building still life and this conversation will come up. It has come up with some of our other guests and I'm sure it's gonna come up again.

[00:05:09] But that mindset piece and not, I mean, we all have this crazy hangover of working in this specific sector where we're taught, money is bad. We shouldn't get paid a lot. Our labor is not as valuable as like the impact and all that kind of stuff. And we have to break free from that. To really step into our service to our clients. And I think again, I feel like that really comes through.

[00:05:40] Jess: So if you are a nonprofit coach consultant tuning into this episode, and you're interested in everything from how to get started, to how to make the jump from one to one service provider to maybe launching your own signature program, or even a course this is the episode to not miss get your pen and paper ready because you're gonna wanna take notes.

[00:06:00] Cindy: Yeah. And you can fan girl along with the two of us, here's our conversation with Rhea. Rhea, welcome to the podcast.

[00:06:09] Rhea: Ladies, it is such a pleasure. It's like such a fun hang session. I'm excited.

[00:06:14] Cindy: I know. And I rush to hit record because honestly we couldn't wait to talk about all the things with you. And I feel like we could have talked for an hour before we even got started on recording.

[00:06:27] So for the benefit of our audience, we're just diving right in picking up on our conversation as we were having. But before we sort of dive, we were talking all things launches and products, but before we go into the juicy part, can you just introduce yourself to our listeners? Tell us who you are and what your business does.

[00:06:52] Rhea: Yeah, for sure. Well, thanks so much for having me. So Rhea Wong, founder, Rhea Wong Consulting, which is always such a weird thing to say, I'm like, yes, obviously. Who else founded Rhea Wong Consulting? I was a longtime executive director in New York city and I pivoted once I left my job to teaching people how to fundraise because it took me, you know, 20 years and 12 of them in the trenches isn't easy to figure out how to fundraise. And I was like, why did it take me so long to do this? And so what I do now is my primary program is the fundraising accelerator where I work with individuals usually executive directors and development directors, but primarily executive directors to focus on launching major gift programs and to lend gifts from high net worth individuals.

[00:07:46] Because I think that is the area that people feel the most service about and the area that people get the least guidance in. People have lots of anxiety about money. So it's a nine week program with ongoing support. And I promise that I'm gonna teach them how to be badass fundraisers.

[00:08:03] Jess: Yeah, you are.

[00:08:04] So you just mentioned the accelerator. Are there any other revenue streams for how you make money?

[00:08:10] Rhea: At this point, I have really weaned myself off of it. Right. So we all kind of had the couple of one to one consulting that we did to sort of keep money flowing in between launches. But this year, and my accountability partner, Brooke will appreciate this.

[00:08:25] I have said no, I've said no to all of the things, right? Because one to one consulting is just not what I wanna be doing. And I feel like the universe is really tempting me cuz the minute I decide to say no, all these juicy things came away and I was like, universe, I see you. And I say, no. Temptation. Right? Cause it's like, you ha it's so tempting.

[00:08:47] Like, but that's like a lot of money and I could just do this thing and, but it's never as easy as you think it's gonna be. It always takes more mental and emotional space. And frankly, I know that I don't want my business to be one to one. So I've said no. So yes, the answer is, I am doing primarily my fundraising accelerator.

[00:09:05] I'm doing some light training with boards and such, but I'm not doing any intensive one to one work.

[00:09:12] Cindy: I love it. And I so appreciate that. You talk about that process of you can't just go one to one to many overnight that you're going to build a little bit of hybrid in there until you get established.

[00:09:28] Like, let's talk about the accelerator. I mean, we were talking about launches. I feel like that's a perfect place to begin because we all know what we're talking about from an like content perspective. Right. That's what our backgrounds are, but launching a one to many program is a beast. So tell us about your experience with that. Yeah. And what you're seeing.

[00:09:55] Rhea: Yeah. So this is such an interesting, I could go on and on, but basically I decided to go the organic route. I've done a little bit of the paid ad strategy and I just felt like it wasn't really paying off. Like, I didn't go in big, but I was spending some money on Facebook ads and LinkedIn ads.

[00:10:13] I was like, I feel like I'm spending money and yet I'm not really seeing an ROI. So I stopped that because I also, when I took a step back. When I saw the people who were signing up, there were either people that I had already knew in my network or had been referred to me by people in my network. Right.

[00:10:27] Because I think what you know about nonprofits, that word of mouth and relationships are paramount. So you're not gonna respond to some random Facebook ad. If you've, don't know who I am and have never seen me before. So that's one thing that I think is unique. The thing that is really unique, I'm not gonna be negative, but I think it's very unique and I think we all need to talk about it is selling to a nonprofit audience because they're much more price sensitive.

[00:10:55] And I think other people are. And the thing that kind of, I'm trying to be respectful here, but like, it kind of drives me a little bit nuts is they often are so shortsighted and I, by they, I actually just mean boards generally that, you know, with my program, You know, it's not inexpensive, like it's significant investment, but I have a six month money back guarantee, which is if you input money strategies and you don't make the money back in six months in new or increased donors, I refund your money.

[00:11:26] Like you literally cannot lose money on this deal. People come to me because they say that they're not raising enough money. And I'm like, okay, I can help you raise more money. But I'm going to need you to make this investment. I'm like, no. And I'm like, well, so what's the alternative. Like nothing has actually changed if you're not willing to invest the money to make more money in a completely risk free situation.

[00:11:48] So, and it's usually board members who get, who are the ones who kibosh it and they're like, no, we can't afford that. I'm like, so then what's your plan? If you're not raising money now, what are you gonna do differently in order to change that statement? So it's the lack of long term thinking and the lack of understanding between expense versus investment that really drives me a little bit nuts.

[00:12:14] Jess: That's really fascinating that you feel you get the know so much from board members because I know so many board members are, you know, filled with people, quote unquote from the business world, or like people who understand ROI and investment. And this seems like it would be such an obvious. Yes. So it's interesting that they kind of guardrail these clear solutions to a very clear problem.

[00:12:44] Rhea: Yeah. It is really interesting. And, you know, I think so I've really reflected on it. So I think part of it is that when I'm on sales calls, I'm usually doing it with EDs or development directors.

[00:12:57] And so I think I need to do a better job of helping them to communicate the value because obviously, like there's some disconnect there because if you understood the value of what I was offering and you saw the ROI, you'd be like, this is a no brainer. Of course. This is a yes. Right. I also think this is sort of a weird phenomenon. Having been in ED. Board members are really different in their volunteer life than they are in their corporate life. And I don't know what, like, I don't know what that's about. I don't know, like why like something switches off in the board room, but like yes, in a business sense, you should understand ROI for whatever reason.

[00:13:33] And I think it's because of the scarcity culture that we have in nonprofit of like, we can't afford anything. We have to nickel and dime everything. Like everything is like, so precarious that I don't know. There's just not that mindset of you have to invest in order to get ahead.

[00:13:50] Cindy: Yeah. That's probably a whole different conversation.

[00:13:53] Rhea: Like I said, like it could be that's a whole different conversation. I really like reflection on it could be like, if you're saying no to me, it's A, because you don't understand the value of what I've offered. B it's because you don't believe that I can deliver that value or C like, you just don't wanna work with me.

[00:14:13] So all these things could be true.

[00:14:16] Jess: Can I add a D, which is also that, like, they just don't wanna fundraise. They don't see themselves.

[00:14:22] Rhea: Oh girl.

[00:14:24] Jess: Just adding it. Just adding.

[00:14:26] Rhea: Yes, girl. Yeah. Girl.

[00:14:34] Cindy: So I think for the folks in it's important to some context setting, so can you just give us the insights of like, what is your price point? How many weeks is this being delivered over how many people are in a cohort? Like can we just context that a little bit for folks who aren't familiar with you or the accelerator?

[00:14:56] Rhea: Yep, absolutely. So my price point. And usually I don't show this publicly, but we're all friends here. So we'll do that is $7,500.

[00:15:05] And it's a one time fee it's lifetime access to all the curriculum, lifetime access to the Slack channel. And then it's a nine week program about 90 minutes in a group coaching model. So it's a module based. So every week it's. In the 30 minutes-ish of a module, 30 minutes-ish of homework, and then the 90 minute meeting and then post the actual training there's lifetime access to me.

[00:15:34] So I do, I host monthly drop in sessions. I host master classes. That model may change as I scale up, but that's what it is for now. And generally in my cohorts is anywhere from the small end to the six at the high end was 15. So it's pretty intimate and it's me and a co-facilitator. So there's a lot of individual attention.

[00:15:55] And honestly for that price, I'm like, you kind of can't beat what I'm delivering for that price. Like if you were to hire me one on one, that wouldn't even cover my fee for a month. So I don't know. I think it's a pretty good deal. And yet I talk to a lot of people who say no, which, you know, it is what it is, but it, I'm like, I feel like I've made this really appealing.

[00:16:19] Cindy: How long have you been running the program? What iteration or cohort is this?

[00:16:25] Rhea: Yeah, so I'm, I'm recruiting for cohort seven currently. So my first beta group was back in the end of 2020, and I've run, you know, six cohorts since the first beta group was, you know, obviously was not that price.

[00:16:42] It was a very small price because I was essentially, you know, Guinea pigging on them. And even then people were like, no, I was like, I'm offering you at the time. It was a five week program for like $500. It was really nothing. And even then before, like, no, I don't have the money. And I okay. So there's always gonna be some number of people who are gonna say that they don't have the money, the people who, so it is actually made me do a lot of thinking about my ideal champagne client.

[00:17:09] Right? Cause at the end of the day, if you don't see the value of what I'm offering or you aren't willing to find the money to make it happen, then you're probably not the person I wanna work with. Like the people I wanna work with are like ready to say yes and ready to make a change.

[00:17:25] Cindy: Yes. That's like mic drop moment. I was gonna ask.

[00:17:39] Cindy: My question is about launches because I've been in programs. I've invested in programs on like how to launch a digital product, how to launch a course and there's live launches. There's challenge launches. There's webinar launches. I'm really curious what you've tried over the years. What you've found works well and maybe what hasn't worked well?

[00:17:59] Rhea: Yeah, so such good questions. So I've tried webinar launches. I've not tried evergreen. I've tried. I mean, to be honest, like, I don't know, the launch thing has not really worked for me, so I've. Like tried to follow a bunch of different, you know, marketers in the, in the field. And I just think that like, I accept that maybe I'm doing it wrong. Like that could be a possibility. Right. But I think the other possibility is like, our market is just really unique and the stuff that works for other products in other demographics just don't work the same way. And I won't say that they don't work full stop, cuz obviously, obviously I have a business, obviously, YouTube of businesses. So like obviously things do work. You know, for me, what I've found is I invested in Organic social center. And that seems to be working because it feels like the nonprofit folks that we work with really need a lot of nurturing.

[00:19:02] They need a deep dive. They need to like, make sure that you really know what you're talking about. Because again, I get it. Like I was an ED. It's a lot of money. You wanna make sure that the person you're working with actually knows what they're talking about, but I think that just makes for a slower sales cycle. And then what I've noticed, and when we were talking about this is I've noticed that enrollments or applications in the program have been slower this year than they have been in past years. And I've only done like two years, so I don't have much of a data point to rely on, but I will say the cohort I ran early 2020 filled up much faster than the one I ran midyear and certainly faster than the once I'm running in September. And I just really wonder what that's about, you know, I've reflected, I'm like, is it me? Like, are people not satisfied? Are they saying that it's not a good use of their money, but I'm getting good feedback and I'm getting good results.

[00:20:02] So I'm like, well, it's not that unless people are like, there's like this whole cottage industry that I dunno about where people are trolling me. I don't think that that's true. So I'm just trying to figure out like what what's that about?

[00:20:13] Jess: I have a lot of thoughts on that. One, I think people you tell, well, I think number one, people are just out in the world again, you know, if you look back to 2020, people were home, people were scared. People were raising money and. A solution while you're stuck at home is a way different need than when the world is open. And you've been cooped up for a couple years and you're like, I know I really need to start thinking about major gifts or end of your giving season.

[00:20:43] But like, I haven't been on a vacation with my family in two years, like I'm away. And I just think people are distracted in a different way. I also think something, all of us, nonprofit coaches and consultants really need to like reflect on, think on strategize on is that the buyer is more sophisticated.

[00:21:04] So in 2020, you could have put out a freebie and like gotten hundreds of opt-ins like everyone was taking and downloading and getting on list all the time. And as someone that just completed a summit that generally, you know, recruits 1500 people, no problem, I struggled this time to even get 900 people and that's for something free.

[00:21:28] So like impacts a big punch of value. So something at a higher price point. I think we just have to think about the sophistication of our buyer and it's evolved a little bit as well, but I have lots and lots and lots of thoughts about it all, but those are just kind of two things that I'm trying to navigate as I think through my business.

[00:21:52] I also think people are really overwhelmed. I actually surveyed my audience and I said, why didn't you buy? And 90% of people said, I'm just frankly too overwhelmed right now. So like it's daunting to complete a course or join a group program. And so I'm trying to think, okay. How can I tell people what's one thing you can do right now to move the needle, even a teeny tiny fraction versus like here's the whole inch AADA yeah, it's a challenge for sure.

[00:22:22] Rhea: Yeah, I think I double click on everything you just said. And I also think that there's something to at least in my case, around the fears of recession and economic insecurity, which like to me means like you should double down on fundraising. Yeah. But I understand that if like, well, we don't have the budget right now, or, you know, what actually really kinda gets my goat is when people say like, well, I don't have that in the professional development budget.

[00:22:49] As if this was like a, a nice to have like frill I'm like, no, no, this is not like Spanish class to make you feel good. Right? Like this is actually fundamental to your strategy and survival as an organization. Like think of this a way that you would think of having a CRM system. Like you're not gonna be like, no, no, we can't afford a CRM system to keep our donors organized.

[00:23:11] Right. And so I think, and look, especially as a sector, knowing the retention issues that we're having with the great resignation, if we're not investing in the knowledge of our people, they're not gonna stick around. Like people wanna grow, they wanna learn, they wanna be successful. And so if we are unwilling to invest in that growth, they're gonna find somewhere else to go. So.

[00:23:40] Jess: Okay. We're back with rapid fire questions. Rhea. You ready? Okay.

[00:23:45] Rhea: Let's do it.

[00:23:46] Jess: If you had 100 extra dollars to spend, what would you spend it on?

[00:23:51] Rhea: Oh my gosh. Uh, a massage. Cool.

[00:24:00] Jess: You always have the most fun and colorful glasses. Where's your go-to place for shopping for glasses?

[00:24:07] Rhea: Punto Ottico in Brooklyn and Sea Optical in Brooklyn on Smith street.

[00:24:14] Jess: Perfect. And what do you do for self care?

[00:24:18] Rhea: Is that a thing? I do yoga. I swim five days a week and I get massages.

[00:24:28] Jess: Can I ask what on average, you would say someone is on your email list in your world before they buy? We talked a little bit about the buyer lengths buyer journey, taking longer for the nonprofit sector. I'm just curious if you've ever analyzed that or have any idea if someone takes a year, 18 months?

[00:24:52] Rhea: Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I wish I had a good answer to that. And I maybe I just need to do more analysis. What's tricky about it is often when people come to me and they're on a sales call with me, they'll say things like, oh, I've been listening to your podcast for years. And you know, I bought your book. I have no way of knowing that necessarily.

[00:25:14] So the only way I know whether or not you're really engaging is if you're active on social with me, or if you're on my newsletter list. I even if I look at my website analytics, I don't necessarily know like who you are as a person. So it's a tough question to answer, but I should probably once I really finish closing these calls.

[00:25:38] Jess: I would say, do you, Cindy? I have a sense of mine.

[00:25:43] Cindy: Mine's like 50 / 50. Some people when I launched, like my one to many course about half actually are brand new and then half have been on for years.

[00:25:54] Jess: So yeah, I would say the exact same also just comment though. My course is $997. I think Cindy years is like around the same. So again, it's not the same level of investment.

[00:26:08] I also focus my attention on like small to midnight size nonprofits. I'm not coaching or working with a lot of, you know, universities or hospital foundations or things like that. That are maybe a little bit more seasoned when it comes to professional development or making these types of investments or frankly, even having a budget.

[00:26:28] And so it just takes longer, always be less building, I guess, yeah, my answer to that.

[00:26:36] Rhea: Yeah, well, actually my clients tend to be on the smaller side too. Like I don't really work. I mean, a few of my clients are kinda multimillion dollar, but the vast majority of the organizations I work with are trying to get that million and realize like have had some success with their annual campaign, but are aware that major gifts are really the lifeblood and so eager to look at their list and figure out like, how do we strategize around like the 20% that we'll handle that will cover 80% of our budget.

[00:27:09] Jess: I wanna rewind a little bit. Cause before we hopped on recording this, we were talking about the like Amy Porterfield and Mariah Coz and all these sort of people who teach us how to build, you know, digital programs like this.

[00:27:24] And so I wanna go back to when you started and what model you used to kick off your beta, how did you, you know, pre-sale because a lot of people struggle. Like I have to build everything and then sell it. I've watched both Amy and Mariah for a long time, and I know they say sell first, then build, but tell us about that process.

[00:27:51] And then I'd love to learn about how your program has evolved over time. Like what have you changed and, or added or taken away. And what's the evolution been like?

[00:28:04] Rhea: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All really good questions. So when I first launched, it was a group of, I wanna say like 12 people, so it was fairly small.

[00:27:14] And essentially I tried to do that model where you do like multiple webinars. Didn't really work for me. Also maybe the time of year. It wasn't great. It was the summer of 2020. So I think all of us were just like shell shocked. But what ended up happening was I essentially just reached out. I put it over my newsletter at the time.

[00:28:33] I think my newsletter list was probably like sub 2000 and I had 12 people, many of whom I had already known. Got them in and then I just built for them. Right. So I actually did pre-build I built one by, I was like, literally one week ahead. And I was able to build the course based on what I was seeing as kind of the issues that they were having.

[00:28:58] So that was version one, version two looks very similar to version one. The difference is we've actually extended. So we started with a five week course. Now it's a nine week course because I just realized that there's so much more content that we could build in. I've also added additional optional hours.

[00:29:17] You can come and do some additional support around like storytelling, et cetera. We've also added a component around DEI and fundraising, cuz that was a huge blind spot for us. Not something that a lot of people were asking about with the community centric fundraising. And so, you know, the other interesting thing, which I love and I hope this continues to be the case is I tend to attract a lot of women of color because being a woman of color myself, I think, being out there in the world and seeing someone who is also woman of color successful in fundraising feels like an important thing. So, you know, generally speaking, I feel very blessed, like anywhere from 50 to 60 of my are women and women of color, which is great.

[00:30:02] Jess: That was really helpful. One of the mistakes I see a lot of nonprofit coaches and consultants making when they consider the transition from a one to one service to, you know, one to many course workshop, whatever is that they have no audience. They've been working with five or six nonprofits a year, and then they're like, I'm gonna create a course. And as you just said, you had an email list of around 2000 people and you sold 12 spots.

[00:30:37] And so I'm curious to what you did and what you do to be list building, audience, building on an ongoing basis and like what that used to look like and what that looks like present day.

[00:30:53] Rhea: Yeah. And actually I'd love to get your thoughts on this too, cuz Jess you in particular are so good with the list building.

[00:30:59] So when I first started my list was basically my personal contact. So I like, I mean, this probably shouldn't hear this, but I just dumped my personal contact feed in like, sorry guys. I didn't ask.

[00:31:11] Cindy: Right. Can I just say this for a second because I want everyone to list and people think that like their personal connections and relationships are like so separate from their business and they're like, I don't wanna put myself out there to those people, but thank you.

[00:31:32] Thank you for sharing that. I did the same thing. I see Jess nodding. I'm imagining she did something very similar.

[00:31:38]Rhea: Yeah. Like who, who the hell else are you gonna know? Right. Like, I just feel like people think that like, you know, similar to fundraising, like these nameless masses will just show up and like, you gotta start with the people, you gotta dance with them that brung you.

[00:31:50] Right. Like these are your people start there. So, yeah. So I dumped my, my contact list in. And then started to really build my LinkedIn audience. So I really went deep on one. Like, I was really overwhelmed when people were like, oh, you should do like LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook and Instagram. And I was like, my head is gonna explode.

[00:32:11] So I just doubled down on LinkedIn. I was like, that's gonna be my platform. I'm gonna show up regularly there, all the other stuff. I'm just not gonna do. Then I, so I have a, kind of a multipronged strategies. You have like the lead magnets on the website, but frankly, I don't know if are your lead magnets converting very well.

[00:32:28] I just feel like they're not, I'm just, like whatever.

[00:32:31] Jess: I've been on Pinterest which we can talk about separately and like it's, it is the most underused tool I have almost a hundred thousand used this month already. And it just run and just get subscribers.

[00:32:47] You're gonna tell all about that because I'm in awe and envy of it.

[00:32:56] Rhea: Yeah. Well, we should talk about that. Okay. So I don't, I'm not on that Pinterest level, but I, so what I also did was I started running these free webinars, which were essentially how I record my podcast. And actually it started back in the pandemic because we were all home. We were feeling really disconnected and I was like, well, I, obviously recording these podcasts anyway, why don't I just open it up Oprah stuff? Like, by the way, my, one of my life ambitions is to become the Asian Oprah. So I was like, I can be like Oprah and just do these online things and then have people register. And when they register, I'll put them on my email list, right?

[00:33:32] Like there's a notification that like, if you sign up, you won't be added to the email list. So that's been a driver of growth. And then, you know, and then honestly there's no substitute for just putting really good content out. Right. And you just, I know your, your emails are a thing. I look forward to them, right?

[00:33:51] Like I think we try to halfass and be like, I'm just gonna like put stuff out or week I'm like, but you have to put good stuff out every week. You have to put stuff out that people want to.

[00:34:01] Jess: You're the one who fill up every single week on your platforms that you have determined work for you and you don't take breaks. And if you take it a physical break, you preplan.

[00:34:13] Rhea: No. Yeah, absolutely. Every Monday the podcast posts, every Tuesday, the newsletter goes out, every Thursday, they're doing a webinar, right? Like it's like clock work. And, you know, I was thinking about this for people who are trying to build a business, like consistency is key, just like fundraising.

[00:34:32] Right. I don't care if you don't feel. It, I don't care. If you feel inspired, get on there, put it out there, send it, ship it, ship it, ship it. Right. And so perfectionism has not been one of my, the burdens that I carry. I carry many burdens, but perfectionism is not one of them, but I think that. People who are really obsessed with perfect are going to run into trouble because, you know, don't let, what is it. Perfect is the enemy of the good. And I just, I know you're like a do it messy kind of person. Like it's actually more important that you get the email out than if it's like perfectly done with all of the fonts. Like it's, you know, I would rather it out than it have like zero typos, like sometimes typos happen. That's okay.

[00:35:20] Jess: Literally everything that's come out of your mouth, this whole interview has been golden, so yeah. We're just.. I love it. But we have a question we like to ask, which is a Confessions question. So, everything looks like is going really well. What are, give us like the behind the scenes? What's one thing that you actually wanna improve on or develop or you know, that you don't think you're doing super hot on?

[00:35:52] Rhea: Dude. Like so many things. Oh my God. Like every day of my life, I'm like, shit, I haven't done. Am I allowed to swear? I'm like, it's always like, yeah. You know, it's so funny cuz from the outside, it looks like everything is together from the inside. It's like chewing gum, like, like in duct tape is sticking everything together.

[00:36:14] Right. So right now I need to work on my funnels. I need to get a CRM system happening properly. I mean, my donor journey is a little bit all over the place. I wanna do some revamps to the program and add a couple really fun bonuses for people. Yeah. It's always a work in progress. So, it's so funny to when people say like, oh, it looks like everything is so, so polished.

[00:36:40] And so like, you have no idea what it looks like on the inside, right? Like I'm stressing right now about, am I gonna fill this program?

[00:36:47] Cindy: I think that that's so refreshing to hear that you're human and that you have these, you know, kind of questions in your head and then, you know, you and I are friends and I see all the work that you do and you don't let that stop you from moving forward or posting content or sending that email.

[00:37:05] And I think that that's when you run a small business, that's really, really, really what it's all about for sure. And I'm just so excited to watch to yeah.

[00:37:15] Rhea: Forward momentum. Well, same, same with you. I mean, the other thing is like, I also think as again, I don't wanna overstate it, but I think of women entrepreneurs, we worry so much about what people might think about us. Like we're gonna get judgment. Like people are gonna say mean things. Like that's just how life is right like that. And you know, what, why are you gonna let your feelings get hurt by people who don't even know you. Don't pay attention to that. And, you know, Jesse were really inspiring to me a couple weeks ago.

[00:37:46] When you put out your response to the post row decision. And I was like, that's really courageous. I put something out as well. I got pushed back on that. I mean, I had a couple of spicy emails come through and I was like, you know what though? That's okay. And like, that's what the unsubscribed button is for.

[00:38:08] And I, and frankly, like I don't expect everyone needs to agree with me, but I believe that I have an audience that believes that I will be courageous and tell the truth, tell my truth. And if that so offends you. Cool. You're not my pupil. That's awesome. Have a nice day. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[00:38:25] Jess: I did that once someone who complained about one of my emails that was also with the social justice slant. And I just said, thank I'm going to be unsubscribing. You like, I'm not even gonna ask you. I'm telling you. Bye bye. So, okay. We could talk forever. But we do have to wrap up. So Rhea. I know, I know.

[00:38:50] No, you know what this podcast is? Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:55] Rhea: Oh, wait, wait, can I, can I add one thing? So, so one of the questions that you sent me was what, I think you said something like, what were the things that helped you along the way? And I think this is true also of EDS, which is, do not be afraid to invest in yourself.

[00:39:11] Like I am in minute mastermind. I have coaches I've bought all the programs, some of which have been more helpful than others. Right. But you can't be afraid to invest in yourself because the truth is like, sure, you can probably figure it out, but why would you do that on your own, if you can just throw money at the problem and get it fixed faster.

[00:39:31] Right. So for me, being in a mastermind of like-minded entrepreneurs and business owners has been transformational, particularly because I think this is a really isolating business. Like you are your business, right? There's nobody else who you can talk to about it necessarily who cares as much as you do, who's facing the same challenges as other business owners.

[00:39:51] And so, you know, I would say, be ready to invest in yourself because you know, I listen to Brooke Castile a lot, but it's like, your brain is going be the thing that makes you money. Like, and if you're unwilling to invest in your brain and your ability to do scary things, like actually my next blog post is gonna be about this.

[00:40:13] Have you guys seen free solo? Like it's amazing. So it's this guy who frees solos without ropes, El Capitan in Yosemite. His name is Alex. I can't remember his last name, Alex. And they did a brain scan of his brain. And they were like, oh, you're amygdala, which is your fight, fear, freeze center needs a much higher level of stimulation than the average persons does.

[00:40:40] He's they're like, it's not that you don't feel fear. It's just that you have learned how to manage it. And he was like, oh, it's because I constantly push the boundaries of my comfort. And I think that's what we need to do as entrepreneurs. Like we have to do the scary thing. We have to be willing to fuck up.

[00:40:56] We have to be willing to like, Open ourselves to the judgment of others, because everyone has an opinion, right? We have to be ready to like be at the dinner table and try to explain our parents what our job is and still do that.

[00:41:09] Jess: I mean, if that's not the perfect place to end, I dunno what is. Rhea, my friend, where can people follow you, learn more about you connect with you all the places.

[00:41:21] Rhea: Yeah. So as I mentioned, LinkedIn is the place y'all so, but maybe I'm trying to get on that Pinterest train too. But yeah, LinkedIn is where you can find me Rhea Wong, R H E A W O N G. Check me out online. Jump on my newsletter.

[00:41:36] I add lots of value on the newsletter and also feel free to buy my book. It's called Get Them Money, Honey! available on Amazon.

[00:41:44] Jess: Oh, and we have to plug your podcast.

[00:41:47] Rhea: Oh yes. And my podcast Nonprofit Lowdown, which fun fact I just found out I'm a top 10 nonprofit podcast. The four above me are like megachurches in Texas. I'm number seven.

[00:42:06] Jess: Thank you for being with us. Thank you for being such a transparent, honest, open book all about your small business. We really appreciate it.

[00:42:15] Rhea: Oh, well, I appreciate you too. And thanks for doing this. I think I hope it'll help a lot of people.

[00:42:20] Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can join your support in one of three ways.

[00:42:31] Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I. So we currently post you

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[00:42:50] Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

[00:42:57] Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends. Remember we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions. See you next time.