There's upside risk, too. So it's teaching us the risk isn't necessarily only bad. There is downside risk. If there's fraud that happens or somebody breaches your systems or you lose your social media account, there is downside risk and things that you want to avoid fully, but there's also upside risk where I'm trying to expand, I'm trying to grow. I could add another channel, another product line or another service, and it's going to be upside risk because you're getting so much out of it. - Rosalie Ennes

Managing Risk (because consulting can be risky)with Rosalie Ennes

Shit happens. As much as we plan and organize, there is so much about running a business that is out of our control.

Which is why we invited risk expert Rosalie Ennes to the podcast - to talk about how to manage risk in your consulting business. 

A risk management strategy can help you plan for the future, protect yourself from bad things happening, and also help you consider and calculate the upside of your business.

This is Rosalie's story:

Rosalie's journey into the world of risk management began during her college years, where she studied business administration and accounting. Her initial foray into external audit exposed her to the financial aspect of risk management, delving into the meticulous process of ensuring accuracy in numbers. It was her transition to internal audit, however, that broadened her perspective, enabling her to proactively tackle operational risks and streamline organizational processes. The passion for mitigating risks ignited during her time working with large corporations, and as she ventured into consultancy, Rosalie found herself drawn to impact-driven businesses, aiming to instill a proactive risk management approach. Through her diverse experiences and unwavering commitment, she has become a beacon of guidance for small businesses and organizations, empowering them to navigate the intricate landscape of risk management with confidence and foresight

Key Highlights:

• Discover effective strategies to protect your business from potential risks and uncertainties.

• Gain insights into assessing and mitigating financial risks to ensure the stability and growth of your business.

• Unlock the secrets to building and delivering impactful consulting services 

Timestamped summary of this episode:
0:00:00 - Introduction and Background

Cindy and Jess introduce guest Rosalie, a risk management consultant, and discuss her background in corporate risk management and transition to working with impact-driven businesses.

00:04:17 - Proactive Risk Management

Rosalie discusses the importance of proactively managing risks in small businesses and organizations, highlighting the need to identify and address potential risks before they lead to mistakes or financial losses.

00:07:01 - Personal Experience and Upside Risks

Rosalie shares how her experience in internal audit led her to focus on small businesses, emphasizing the importance of understanding both downside risks (e.g., financial and legal) and upside risks (e.g., growth and expansion) in business.

00:10:10 - Launching a Business and Risk Strategy

Rosalie provides guidance on addressing financial and legal risks when launching a business, including considerations for product-market fit, contracts, legal protection, and vendor processes.

00:12:03 - Growing and Scaling Risks

The conversation shifts to discussing the importance of individual processes, access controls, and authorization hierarchies as businesses grow and scale, highlighting the relevance of risk strategy in nonprofit consulting related to fundraising and financial management.

00:12:47 - Unintended Financial Windfall

Rosalie shares a funny story about a former employee's assistant accidentally sending a blank check from Rosalie's business, resulting in a $10,000 deposit in her bank account.

00:14:44 - Evaluating Upside Risks

The discussion shifts to evaluating the worth of taking risks despite potential downsides. It emphasizes the importance of aligning risk with business goals and considering the potential payoff when taking calculated risks.

00:17:18 - Personal Risks and Celebrating Wins

Rosalie talks about her riskiest personal decision of moving across the country and shares her celebratory rituals for business wins, including spending time with her dog and indulging in food and travel.

00:19:00 - Managing Risk and Embracing Failure

The conversation delves into the challenge of balancing risk assessment with the understanding that initial attempts may not guarantee success. It highlights the importance of preparation, mindset, and giving oneself a timeline to embrace failure as a learning experience.

00:24:54 - Common Misconceptions about Risk

The discussion touches on misconceptions and misdiagnosed risks, such as using templated contracts without considering potential implications. It emphasizes the need for a thorough understanding of risks and the value of expert input to avoid overlooking critical factors.

00:25:20 - Underestimating and Overestimating Risks

Rosalie discusses the common tendency to underestimate the risk of contracts and overestimate the risk of reputational concerns. She highlights the importance of finding a balance in managing these risks.

00:27:02 - Trust but Verify

Rosalie emphasizes the importance of trust but verify when it comes to employee contracts, encouraging businesses to plan for worst-case scenarios. She also touches on the misperception of reputational risks and the need for open communication.

00:28:07 - Proactive Risk Management

Rosalie stresses the significance of proactive risk management, particularly in managing communication risks and identifying the root causes of potential issues. She emphasizes the importance of over-communicating during times of change.

00:30:47 - Identifying Root Causes

Rosalie discusses the importance of identifying root causes in risk management, using the example of culture and leadership. She emphasizes the need to dig deeper into the reasons behind potential problems to effectively address them.

00:35:13 - Empowering Others with Risk Mindset

Rosalie shares her resources, including free guides and a YouTube channel, aimed at empowering individuals with a risk mindset. She also announces her upcoming book that will share lessons and insights through fictional company confessions.

00:37:54 - Overcoming Failure and Adapting

Rosalie discusses how she initially failed in offering her planned services but ended up finding a better direction. This highlights the importance of adapting to changes and learning from failures in business.

00:38:14 - Connecting Online

Rosalie shares where listeners can connect with her online, including Instagram, LinkedIn, and her YouTube channel. She encourages the audience to engage with her free content and reach out with any questions.

00:38:47 - Ways to Support the Podcast

The host, Cindy, invites listeners to support the podcast by sharing the episode on social media, recommending it to others, and leaving positive reviews on Apple Podcasts. The importance of support for the growth of the podcast is emphasized.

00:39:11 - Call to Action

The host encourages fellow nonprofit coaches and consultants to reach out with their business questions, highlighting the willingness to share knowledge and provide support in the industry.

00:39:31 - Farewell and Next Episode

The episode concludes with a reminder to subscribe for future interviews and a message to the audience, ending with a promise to return for the next episode.

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com

Connect with Rosalie: 

Website: https://portecuaconsulting.cpa/ 

Connect with Rosalie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/portecua/ 

Connect with Rosalie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/portecuaconsulting/ 

Connect with Rosalie on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@portecuaconsulting 

Five Steps to Jumpstart Your Risk Journey: https://portecuaconsulting.mykajabi.com/opt-in-businesses 

Three Things About Risks to Know Today: https://portecuaconsulting.mykajabi.com/opt-in-individuals 

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com

Fractional Fundraising Network https://www.fractionalfundraising.co/

LinkedIn:  https://ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-campbell-outintheboons/ 

Transcript:

00:00:00

Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman. And I'm Jess Campbell. Where two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations. After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and lived to see what sticks.

00:00:20

We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain. Whether you're still working in sudden on profit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it. No more gatekeeping, no more secrets.

00:00:54

This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful, successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses. Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly. When it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one. You ready?

00:01:29

Let's go. Hey, Jess. Hi. Hello. For those of you who don't see behind the scenes, Jess and I have been on a mini hiatus from recording.

00:01:41

I feel like it's been a few weeks, so we're back. Although, to all you listeners, you can't. Tell, because I know we're with you. Every week, like it or not. How you doing, Jessica?

00:01:54

I'm good. How are you? You're coming. I'm coming off a big week. Yeah.

00:01:59

As of the time of recording, we just did AFP icon, which was epic, iconic, and then smack dab in the middle of the fractional fundraiser academy launch, which I'm excited to do a debrief when that's over, but, yeah, it's been busy. Yeah, you have been busy. And, like, I've. I feel, like, been the exact opposite. Like, in my favorite type of workspace, where I'm just, like, hunkered down, writing, like, not talking to a single soul, just the way I like it.

00:02:33

Um, we couldn't be more opposite right now. Yeah. As far as our, like, work schedule. But it ebbs and flows. That's a beauty.

00:02:42

Totally doing it on our own. Yeah. So I love that. Okay, today we're talking about risk. And when I met today's guest, I was just like, this is such a cool topic because I don't think we ever really think about or address it, or maybe we do, but we don't even know what to call it.

00:03:02

So let's dive in and welcome Rosalie Ennes to the podcast. Rosalie, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Cindy and Jess. I'm excited to be here.

00:03:13

It is our pleasure. So please just take a minute, introduce yourself and what you do and what is risk in business, especially for small businesses? I think we often think big corporations have a risk whole unit, but what does it mean for us? Amazing. Well, thank you for having me again.

00:03:38

I'm based in New York City. I'm founder of Port ECWA Consulting, which is essentially, I'm a business consultant, but I have that risk first focus, and this comes from 13 years of experience. I was in corporate for the majority of my career and working with, like you said, big companies and helping them manage risks as they achieve their goals. And I kind of, after a while, had built up enough skill set and had also experienced enough of the big corporate environment that I wanted to go back to our communities, to small businesses, to organizations, to people that had more similar like minded values and that really just wanted to make an impact. And so now I'm focused on helping still manage risk, but I'm doing it with impact driven businesses.

00:04:17

And so it could look like, from a lens of strategy, like, what are the risks as you're embarking on a certain strategy? What are the risks as you're building out your processes, whether it's vendors or contractors, how do you pay your employees? Like, there's risks in all of that. And then also significant transformation. So anytime you have any huge initiatives, there's a lot of risk, and you have to be able to figure out how to appropriately execute it and also communicate the message.

00:04:40

And what I like to say is that everyone already manages risks. So sometimes when I'm doing presentations, I'm like, who here has been a risk manager? And some people won't raise their hand because they'll be like, I'm not a risk manager, but I'm like, well, by the end of this presentation, you will know that you do manage risk because you manage them day to day. And so it's always kind of eye opening because you, like you said before, you know, we think about risk in a sense, but we're not formally thinking about it. And so I'm trying to bring more of that education and that formality to us, and the point of it is to proactively manage risks versus making mistakes.

00:05:13

And then, like, being like, okay, I wasted money and wasted time. I wasted energy on this, but let's proactively think about what could go wrong and manage that. So that's what I'm doing with my business, and I do it with consulting, with advisory work, with some education, and then also speaking. So, yeah, it's exciting stuff, and it's been a little over a year since I started, so I'm definitely still learning and experimenting, and it's been a great journey. Okay.

00:05:36

I can't wait to get into the nitty gritty on all this. But before we do, I'm just really curious, like, how does someone get into this world? I feel like the word risk is immediately associated with stress. And so I'm also thinking, like, would. I ever, you know, like, is this.

00:05:53

Just stressful for you all day long or. Because it's not your risk. Like, you're helping people untangle risk. So it's actually quite. I mean, I'm sure it's fulfilling, otherwise you wouldn't do this job.

00:06:04

But I guess I'm just kind of curious as your backstory. Like, did you not evaluate risk well once? And you were like, I got to. Figure this out so that other people. Don'T make this mistake, too.

00:06:15

Like, how did we get here? So the first part of the question how we got here is, I studied business administration in college and accounting. And so I got into external audit, which is accounting focus and managing risks from a financial lens. Like, let's audit your numbers. Let's make sure they're all right.

00:06:32

And then you think about what the finances look like. And so it's more around auditing and financial risk. And then as I was exploring my next step, I learned about internal audit, which basically means you're working inside the organization and helping them proactively manage risk before it gets out or reputation is impaired or harmed. And so I was internal thinking about financial and then also operational risks. So inefficiencies, any duplicate processes, and just really trying to make sure we can, you know, build a well oiled machine.

00:07:01

And so that's what I would do. So I got in it through audit. So doing different audits and audit auditing retail stores, manufacturing plants, offices, and all their processes. And I just like the lens of, like, you know, there are risks and we need to think about them. And I agree that most people think, like, it's scary.

00:07:17

I don't want to touch it. Like, when you think about risk, can you name it? I've had some people tell me, like, can you name it something else? Like, I don't know if risks is going to resonate, but the reality is you are managing risks with. And so I'm taking it more as, like, an educational lens of, let's teach you how to manage your risks.

00:07:31

I was just curious if you ever, like, had a personal experience with risk and, like, if that's how you kind of even came to the idea that. Oh, maybe small businesses might need this. So I didn't personally have an experience, but based on what I had encountered at the big companies and seeing mistakes that they're still making, I really felt like small businesses and organizations could avoid those problems and avoid those things that they're going through. We can do it even better. And so I want people to have that risk lens much earlier on.

00:08:01

And that's why I'm trying to work now with small businesses and organizations and teach them about how to manage risk. And the goal isn't that you're managing risk to the lowest level possible because it depends on your risk tolerance and your appetite. Like, some people love to take risks, and they'll build five different businesses and they're okay with failing at four of them and one works or a few of them work. So it's different levels. So it's really about where your risk appetite lies.

00:08:24

And then now I remember. So the second piece was around, there's upside risk, too. So it's teaching us the risk isn't necessarily only bad. There is downside risk. Like, if there's fraud that happens or, like, somebody breaches your systems or you lose your social media account, there is downside risk and things that you want to avoid fully, but there's also upside risk where, yeah, I'm trying to expand, I'm trying to grow.

00:08:44

I'm trying to, I could add another channel, another product line or another service, and it's going to be upside risk because you're getting so much out of it. So looking at it from that lens also helps people wrap their heads around it as well. I love that because I always encourage people to take those kinds of upside risks. And I never really thought about it as, like, the downside risks and the upside risks, which I just want to get deeper and deeper into this because I think it's just so, again, like, I think we have this, like, risk tolerance built into us, but we never get explicit about how, how that shows up in our business. So let's talk about, let's start with the downside risks because I think that that's easier for people to sort of wrap their heads around.

00:09:32

You know, we mentioned, you mentioned financial, you mentioned fraud, like, have you locked out of your social media accounts? How do we strategically, like, think about, like, how do we start to approach and build in strategy around this in our very small businesses where sometimes it's just us? Like, what's an appropriate level of even thinking about risk and what should we be prioritizing? Yeah. So depending on where you are in your level of when you've started your business, if you're still at launch or if you're growing or if you're scaling, there is going to be a different level of risk strategies that you're implementing.

00:10:10

And so if you're still at that launch level, it's really about, you know, getting your financials in order. Like, do the numbers make sense? Like, am I gonna make a profit based on what I'm trying to sell? Can I sell enough if it's products or if it's services to make a profit? What am I gonna have to have as expenses and turn and to make that profit and to make those sales?

00:10:30

Am I gonna do paid ads? Am I gonna do organic? So starting out with addressing your financial risks, because the risk is that you don't make a profit at the end of the year or that you're using too much of your savings or you're going too much in debt. And so really I would address the financial risk as you're launching a business. And then this is also assuming that you've already done your product market fit and you know that there is some market out there for it.

00:10:52

You have an idea of what you're going to sell, and then you go into your financial risk, you go into contracts as well. Like, am I going to need contracts? Like, how am I going to set up this process with my customers? So you're thinking about your customer experience, which is important, and your branding and your marketing and how it's going to convey what's your values. But also think about the contracts and how are you going to set expectations with your customers, with your clients.

00:11:15

And then also thinking, and that goes into legal risk as well. So thinking about contracts in terms of legal risk and then also trademarks, like, is this something that there is a trademark that might be being used by somebody else? Am I infringing on any copyright? Is there any intellectual property that I want to protect? So I would encourage financial and then legal risk, which encompasses the contracts is thinking about those two.

00:11:39

First as you're launching, and then as you're growing and scaling, you start thinking more about your individual processes. So how am I setting up my vendor process and my customer process? And who has access to, even if you think of cash, like, who has access to my bank account? Sometimes we start to hire people, and we don't realize what we're just like, let's just give them all admin access. And then you forget, or you don't know what they have access to.

00:12:03

And sometimes they leave the company, or sometimes they may become disgruntled. You never. And then they have access to that, and you might not have even known because you're not doing those regular checks or having a risk strategy. And so, and that's also where even, you know, with nonprofit consultants, like, they can help add that value to their clients as well. And, like, as they're thinking about their strategy and helping them with whatever project it is, it's like, what is the risk here?

00:12:26

And, like, if you're talking about fundraising and that involves money or grants, like, who has access to disperse these funds? And who has access to approved invoices? Like, is there a, is there an authorization hierarchy? What invoices can get approved by what person? Or is it just like, there's five people and they can access all 5 million that are in the bank account, for instance.

00:12:47

That's so funny. Just a quick story. One of my former employees now has her own consulting business, and her assistant had to send a blank check to one of their clients to submit payments and didn't know that. Like, the blank check that was saved in their share drive was actually old from, like, my business. So I got, like, a $10,000 deposit in my bank account, and my former employee was like, oops, I think you might have my money.

00:13:22

So you don't even think about the magnitude of these things. But something like such a small little error without cleaning up the information. I mean, obviously, like, me, as the employer made sure everything got terminated and all of that. And there's, I don't think, much risk to void checks of mine out there, but her, like, holding onto that information became inherently risky for her. So I just thought that was such an interesting situation.

00:13:54

That is just such a case in point in terms of who has access to what information, which is critical. Exactly. And in that situation, both parties could figure it out and you could resolve it, but there are situations where you wouldn't be able to problem and also your processes. You're spending time doing that now you have to go into the bank account and figure that out. They have to resolve it, and you're wasting, let's say two, even if it's 2 hours of time that could be spent on other more business generating activities and income generating versus spending time on that.

00:14:23

So, yeah. Um, so interesting. I never would have thought of this before it happened. Okay, talk to us about the upside risks. Like, how do we look at or evaluate if things are worth doing despite the risk?

00:14:44

Like, how would you even talk about, like, upside is like, obviously there's risk with payoff. So how do we evaluate how much payoff makes the risk worthwhile? Or do we minimize risk? How do we think about going from the, oh, no, I got to protect myself financially and legally and from any mishaps to, I want to take calculated risks to grow, to have a bigger impact, whatever the case may be. Yeah.

00:15:17

So first it starts with your risk appetite and like, am I willing to take on a lot or a little? So kind of gauge that from there and then think about what am I trying to achieve and what are the risks involved with that? And then if you can, you, then you kind of start to match that. So if I want to grow, I need to add another revenue stream. Like what I have right now, I feel like I've saturated the market.

00:15:38

I need to expand. I need to add another service. So then you think about adding that service and talking to people, like, is their product market fit? Like, would they, would they want it? And, yeah, I mean, the ultimate risk is that that product line or service that you're launching isn't going to do well.

00:15:53

So that's what you're trying to mitigate against or manage against. And so that's why you're doing the product market fit. You might be talking to people, you might be doing focus groups. So you have a response to that risk and you get it down to an acceptable level where some people might say, okay, I want to launch this new service. I'm going to talk to 100 people.

00:16:09

If 50 say, it's great, go ahead with it. Then if my risk tolerance is at that level, I'm fine. Let me move ahead and let me see what happens. If your tolerance is a little bit higher, you're a little more conservative, you're like, I need 80 of those hundred to tell me that it's a great product or service and I should move ahead with it. So it really depends on figuring out what your risk appetite is and then doing that assessment and then what is.

00:16:31

If I don't move ahead with it. What's something that I'm going to be missing out on? Like, what is. And then you can think about what the upside risk is. So, like, when you changed your.

00:16:40

Your business model and ended up changing a lot within yours, like, I'm sure you were like, yes. Like, there's upside risk to what I'm doing when I'm, you know, downsizing my company and getting rid of my office space. Like what? Like, there's probably a lot of risk assessment you did in there of, like, what's the risk versus the reward? But the upside is so much greater that I'm going to take that risk.

00:17:07

All right, Rosalie, we are back for another round of our rapid fire questions. You ready to play? Yes. Okay, first question. This episode has been all about risk.

00:17:18

I'm curious, what's the riskiest thing, personally or professionally, you've ever done? The riskiest thing is moving across the country without knowing anybody. So I moved from California, from San Jose, California, to the east coast in New York City about ten years ago already now. But that was probably the riskiest thing that I did. Yeah, I did it too.

00:17:41

It's freaking scary. Okay. You mentioned in your episode that writing a book is on the to do list. I'm curious, what business book has been helpful to you? The most helpful business book, or one of the ones that I just finished reading, actually, is your first million by Arlyn Hamilton.

00:18:01

So she's giving a lot of tips for women and BIPOC entrepreneurs on how to get to your first million. Oh, I love that. And then my last question is, what do you do to celebrate your wins? I hang out with my dog Keira. She's about to be six year old rescue dog.

00:18:20

We've had her since a little bit before one, and so, yeah, I usually celebrate with her. I also celebrate by eating out at a restaurant or traveling somewhere. I would say those are my three passions, is food, travel, and my dog, Kira. Okay, well, then I have to ask one more question. What's the next place like on your destination destination list?

00:18:39

The next place that I have that I'm going to is Portugal. I've been there a few times. I would say the next place that I haven't been to is probably Australia. Awesome. Yeah.

00:18:49

Portugal is all the rage. Something about it. I love it. Okay, cool. Thanks for playing.

00:19:00

I'm wondering how you square your risk assessment with also knowing that the first time you launch or put out or do anything, the likelihood that it's going to succeed and soar is minimum at best, right? I read, actually, a post the other day that was, like, the first story you write is. Is not going to be good. The first time you post on social, it's not going to be great. The first sales call you do, you're probably not going to secure, like, and so I'm wondering how you square your risk assessment.

00:19:33

Also knowing that the people listening to this are, um, for the most part at least, my experience is, like, very conservative when it comes to risk. How do you square doing a risk assessment while also knowing that the first time you do almost anything, it's not going to be successful? So as an entrepreneur, as a nonprofit consultant, like, there's some level of risk you already are willing to take on. What I would say is the preparation. And this risk assessment helps you, and it helps you wrap your head around, like, okay, what could go wrong?

00:20:06

And you kind of, almost from a mindset perspective, start to think, like, okay, this might fail, but what's the benefit of, like, even if I fail, like, I've learned this, so you start to think about it that way as well. And then I would say, also giving yourself a timeline. So, like, yeah, this might fail, quote, unquote fail for six months or a year, but I'm okay with that. Like, I'm okay with taking on that level of risk. I've done my assessment.

00:20:28

That might happen. And I would say even with my business, like, I know I'm building it out and not, you know, I'm not making millions of dollars yet. It's been a year. And I said I gave myself, like, you know, it's going to take me probably a year and a half to two years to feel comfortable where I am, because there's a lot of experimentation, there's a lot of education. There's a lot of trying to figure out where I need to add the value to my clients.

00:20:49

And so that's kind of how I swear to it for myself personally, was, like, giving myself a timeline. So feel prepared, and then also give yourself a timeline. Okay, cool. And do you have any advice, like, is this something people can diy, or is this something that, you know, what's the saying? Like, it's really hard to read the label from inside the glass jar.

00:21:07

Is this something that is actually way better investment to hire someone like you? Or is there one, two, or three things we can do to assess different risky opportunities within our business? Absolutely. I think anyone could start it themselves and do most of it themselves. Like, they might feel fine, because at the end of the days, strategy and risk go hand in hand.

00:21:30

So I have what I call my CRM framework. So it's siarm. And so first you strategize. You're gonna do what you've been doing daily anyway. You're figuring out, where am I gonna go with my business this year?

00:21:41

Who am I gonna hire? What systems am I going to implement? And then you identify, and then that's where you start to add that risk lens. So you're identifying what could go wrong in yourself with your people, what reputation risk are you potentially taking on? So you strategize, and then you identify, and then you're going to assess.

00:22:00

So, like, what do I already have in place to help mitigate that risk? So if you're trying to have new clients and, you know, like, these are going to be big ticket projects, you identify that you're going to need contracts for that. So there is some type of contract risk. Maybe there's some miscommunication that could happen. Maybe somebody won't pay you.

00:22:17

So that's why you're assessing. Like, okay, I do have contracts in place. I have that kind of covered. I'm mostly covered, let's say. And then, so the r is to respond.

00:22:27

So once you've identified your risks and you've assessed your risks, you're going to respond to them. So if you already feel comfortable where you are, you have contracts that you feel are fine, they're going to work well for you. Your response might be not a response because you don't need to. If you don't have a contract for that specific type of service or you need to expand on it, you feel like it's not sufficient or maybe you've drafted it, but you want a lawyer to draft it, then you're going to go and take that action, and you're going to respond to that risk that you've assessed, and then the m is monitor. So you would monitor what the risks are in terms of what you've already assessed and then go back every quarter or every six months.

00:23:02

Like, have my risks changed? Am I okay with this? Like, do I need to take more action somewhere? So that's, I would say, is completely, you know, you can diy that in terms of the CRM framework and talk about what could go wrong. If you have a team as well, I suggest doing like, it's almost like a lab where you're a meeting where you're just, everyone's just brainstorming.

00:23:22

Like, okay, we're trying to do this. What is everything that could go wrong, like list out everything, and then you kind of proactively in a group or in your team setting, like talk about, okay, how can we prevent that? And so even just that gets people thinking about what are the risks that could happen and how can we prevent them. So it's going to be lack of communication. Are people, are we going to have meetings that are too long, potentially?

00:23:44

And then you talk about it. And so you already have that lens. So I think you can do a lot of it yourself. I think where an expert comes into play is, like you said, you can't read the label from inside the bottle. You need that extra set of eyes because you might be just focused on getting it done, but somebody else could come in and ask other questions, like, have you thought about this?

00:24:01

And have you thought about that? And bring even like we were talking about earlier about access and like, okay, who's going to have access to do these things? Who's going to have the decision making rights? And they bring that extra level set, extra set of eyes, and they can also help you formalize it. So, like, I'll give a deliver.

00:24:16

If we're working together on a consulting project, there'll be a deliverable of a risk assessment, or if we're working together on a strategy and risk plugin, I will add your, I will take your strategy, and then I'll add that risk lens into it so you'll have a deliverable with it. And then if we're monitoring, if we're doing some type of monitoring projects, then I will also give you a deliverable from that as well. Awesome. So, okay, I have a question about, like, things that people get wrong often, and I'll give you an example. And then things that people misdiagnose or think is risky but really isn't.

00:24:54

So let me give you the two examples that are in my head, and I love to hear if you have things that you see. So, for example, one thing, I hired a bunch of employees and I used templated contracts, and it was all fine. And everyone was like, I was like, I'm a good person and I don't need to be really rigorous. I'm going to give generous time off, and I'm going to be generous. And then it was all fine.

00:25:20

And then I actually restructured my business and had to let people go and, you know, I was okay. But that was probably a risk. It could have been a lot worse, let's say. Right. So that, I think is contracts is one that I think people underestimate as a risk because we just think everything's going to be fine, and it's not always.

00:25:43

And on the other hand, I see a lot of people who get very hung up on reputational risks. So they think if I put myself out there asking for business or stuff like that, people are going to think I'm not busy or that I, I need work, and they think it looks really bad. And so they're misdiagnosing. No one actually cares or is paying that much attention. They just want to help you.

00:26:07

Right. So they, they're under, so in the contract place, um, example, people are, like, underestimating the risk. And then the other, I think they're overestimating the risk. So I'd love to hear from you some things that commonly people might under or overestimate. Do you want me to address those or do you want me to talk?

00:26:25

Or other things. Like, are there other areas up to you, but are there other things that, like, we're not even aware of? But you see, people are like, you need to pay attention to this. Don't underestimate it. Uh, or really, it's not a big deal.

00:26:39

You don't need to worry about that. Yeah, no, definitely. So I love that. And that's where, so in terms of the employee contracts, like you mentioned, I think that sometimes we put a significant level of trust in our employees and we trust that people will do the right thing, and that's great and we should. But there's an element within my work that it's trust, but verify and trust, but, like, put things in place.

00:27:02

Like, you never know. It's almost like, in your head as you're building these contracts, assume the worst. Assume, like, this person, because you don't know also what mindset they're in, what's good if the situation changes. Like, yes, they might be great in the beginning, but you never know. So it's almost like, in your head, assume the worst and plan for that in case.

00:27:19

And so with contracts, like, be, yeah, very careful with, like, how long the contract is. Like, what the employee has access to, like, what they, you know, what's their bonus, what's their pay structure, and protect yourself the most that you can. And then I would say just to comment on the reputational piece. Yeah, I think we all think that people are paying way more attention to us than we like, than they are. So we need to, like, stop overthinking and just, you know, say, like, hey, I have projects.

00:27:47

I have project availability. Or put it a little bit further out and, like, say, you know, I have capacity. Now I'm booking for Q two and Q three. If you feel more comfortable with that, like, there's ways of managing that risk a little bit so that you're kind of, like, you find the right balance for yourself. I would say for some of the common risks that I see where people don't think about is communication.

00:28:07

So anytime you're implementing some big change, you have to manage the message and you have to over communicate. And so if you're bringing on new people, like, tell your employees about it, bring them along the journey of that, because sometimes they feel like they're not the company or the leaders at least, aren't being transparent enough. And so really just over communicate why you're doing it. What is the end goal? Communicate to them that it might be difficult in the beginning, like, allow them to kind of feel that and have that safe space to bring their thoughts up about what could go wrong around, like, how they're feeling about, you know, I had a project I was working on where they weren't used to using their finances or controlling a department budget.

00:28:47

Somebody else kind of did all that for them. And now in the departments, they had to control finances. So it's really talking to them, like, who feels comfortable with this? Who doesn't? And so over communicating everything to do with the project helps you manage a lot of risk and a lot of things that where people start talking and whispers start happening, and that's the last thing that you want as you're transforming within an initiative.

00:29:08

And then I would say with, like you were alluding to earlier, it's like, people misdiagnose. There's a lot of root cause. Like, a lot of my work is trying to proactively manage risk, but it's also trying to react to things that have happened, because things will happen. So I'm not the person who's gonna come in and make sure everything goes perfectly. Everything you want, like, happens.

00:29:28

There will be things that go wrong, but it's about being resilient to that and identifying the root cause. So even in all of the 13 years I spent doing audits, a lot of it was like, okay, but why did this happen? Okay, but why did that happen? But why did that happen? Until you get to the real root cause of it?

00:29:44

And that's what helps you fix things, because if it's, it might not be, let's say, like, if you take an example of culture and somebody doesn't feel good about their, like, boss, and then you're like, okay, well, why don't they feel as good about talking to their boss. They're like, well, they just don't feel safe with them. Like, maybe it's the boss that's the problem. But then if you dig deeper, you're like, no, it's actually the company, or it's actually the culture that the company is creating, or maybe the leader or maybe the values are that the leaders know everything and they dictate everything. And so trying to figure out, like, if it's a.

00:30:17

You have a culture, it's not just a boss problem. You have a culture problem. And this is just one example, but it goes the same with processes and with strategy. Just digging into the whys and usually around three to five whys will get you a better place to figure out, is it policy that's missing? Is it a procedure that's missing?

00:30:36

Is it a culture? Is it something with the system that's not working? Right. So, yes, I would say with communication risk and then also just identifying your root cause. Rosalie, I'm curious.

00:30:47

Do you know what enneagram you are? I feel like I have looked it up at some point, but I don't know, off the top of my head. Oh, okay. You'll have to tell me if you're a six. I have a friend who's, like, a state farm agent, and we tease him because he's just constantly, like, have you thought about this?

00:31:08

Have you, like, done this, like, you know, because he's on the other side of, like, you know, paying out damages and things like that. And I feel like you're kind of in that lane, but for, like, a different type of business. And he's a six. So I feel like I had a conversation with somebody else, I think, last week, and they asked me the same question, and I think they meant six as well. And I'm looking briefly at it here, and, yeah, it sounds very much.

00:31:38

Okay. What's the six tell us? So my quick Google search is that Enneagram type six is the loyalist. So committed, security oriented type, engaging, responsible, anxious, and suspicious. So I do look at everything with a little bit of a suspicious lens, I would say, and just being responsible to the impacts that you're trying to create, and that's why you need that structure around, let's talk about risks, what could happen.

00:32:03

Let's prevent it so that we can make the impact that we want to make. So I agree with that, I would say. But I will look it up officially after this. I'll take a quick. Okay.

00:32:13

I'm wondering if you coach or provide any resources for folks who just really need to work on their mindset. I think Cindy and I can agree that we come across so many nonprofit consultants that are so fearful of risk, or they limit themselves without getting started about risk because they just haven't tried it or they haven't done it. And I feel like it's just a very fine line between being prepared and then being stuck because you're fearful. And so I'm just curious as to any antidotes you might have for people who are so scared of risk and failure and perfectionism and all the things that they just never go. Is that anything that you do in your work, or are you saying that the antidote really is like preparation and organization and assessment?

00:33:10

I'd say I have a few resources that will help. So part of what I'm doing is, you know, bringing that risk lens much earlier on. And so a big part of what I'm doing is education. So I created two resources, and they're free resources. One is specifically for businesses, businesses and organizations.

00:33:29

So it's five steps to jumpstart your risk journey. And so it goes through five risks that you can be thinking about. You can apply it to your business or to the clients that you're serving. And so it'll go through culture like we've talked about. It goes through the finances, it goes through processes, and it goes through payments.

00:33:47

So talking about, like, earlier, also, you know, thinking about fraud and money that could go out or come in that doesn't belong to you, that's one resource. And then I also created, because I do want to empower everyone with the risk mindset and everyone, even individually, to know they have the power to manage risks and they are doing it already. There's another one that's three things about risks to know today. And so that's where it talks about you are a risk manager and, like, how your level of how you manage risk changes over time depending on what your priorities are. And so those are two resources.

00:34:19

And then I also have a YouTube channel, which I created, kind of a portfolio of what are the top things that you can start out with. And so there's ten to 15 videos on there that I think will help. And it's almost like a mini mastermind or mini accelerator that I would encourage our listeners to tune into if they want to learn a little bit more about what it entails. That's so cool. I love that.

00:34:40

Definitely going to check it out because that is, like, probably my lowest enneagram. I'm not suspicious enough personally, so I love that. I just so appreciate all the things we've talked about. And of course, you know, we need to ask for a business confession. So, yeah, let's wrap up with something that you might feel like we don't talk about enough as business owners or maybe a mistake you've made along the way.

00:35:13

What's your confession? I look at things with a risk lens, so I would say something we don't talk enough about is risky. Um, and one thing that I announced, it's not quite an only confession to this podcast, but I recently made a confession to the universe that I'm writing a book. And so because I'm trying to educate people about risk and, like, what to think about what could go wrong, what mistakes. I'm writing a book to kind of consolidate all that knowledge and also to make it as an accessible price point for people to.

00:35:41

And to increase the impact that I have so I can reach more people versus just doing, you know, a consulting project. Now they can have this. And so the book actually will take. It almost takes you through, you know, it'll take you through, like, 40 confessions of companies that, and, you know, they're not real company. They're based on, loosely based on untrue story, but they'll be told through the lens of stories.

00:36:01

So it'll be like, almost like, this is a confession. And then this is how. This is the lesson and this is the takeaway, and this is how you prevent it for yourself so that you can build a beautiful business that's great inside and out, and it has the impact that you intended to. Have you had any sort of, like, I don't say mishaps in your business, but, like, as the risk person, have you ever got, like, kicked yourself being like, oh, my goodness, I can't believe I should know better and I still did this? It's a great question.

00:36:31

I feel like there is, but right now, they're, like, not coming to me. Fair enough. It means if there was, they were not too painful. So it's always good. Maybe I'm like, I have such a risk lens that everything I need to be at least somewhat prepared for things.

00:36:48

I mean, I definitely, like, failed at things and what I probably and not failed, but learned from things, like a lot of the initial services that I thought I would have, and I was like, okay, these are going to be my three offers. They didn't end up that way necessarily. I kind of went with what people were telling me and what felt right. So, for instance, with courses, so part of education is doing some online courses. And so I thought I was going to do something on, like, this is how to add your risk lens.

00:37:15

These are the ten steps, and that's what I would do. It ended up that in my first year, I networked so much, and for me, growth risk was, like, one of my top risks for my first year. Like, I need to grow. And so I networked so much. And that's how I responded to that, that I was posting about going to events, going to virtual meetups, like doing co working, joining community, and people were like, wow, you're such a great networker.

00:37:39

That's amazing. And so I was like, let me just compile a course of how to network and how to elevate your networking approach as a business owner. And what are the seven spaces you should be in? So I came up with the seven spaces. I mean, I named it seven spaces.

00:37:54

I came up with the spaces, ended up being around seven. And so it was like, don't risk your growth like network. Yeah. I don't know if that's truly a confession, but it's something that I think I kind of failed on my initial services I was planning to offer, but it came out, you know, better on the other side. Like, my direction is still there.

00:38:14

It's just that it looked a little. Bit different, which is totally, normally fair. Totally. All right, Rosalie, where can our listeners connect with you online? Listeners can connect with me on Instagram or consulting.

00:38:29

They can also connect with me on LinkedIn and as I mentioned prior, on the YouTube channel. Please go ahead and soak up all the videos, soak up all the free content, and, you know, message me with any questions, and I'm here to help. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was so interesting.

00:38:47

Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support. And one of three ways. Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram Stories or LinkedIn profile and Tag Cindy and I so we can repost you. Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.

00:39:11

And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners. And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop. And every Thursday. And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book. And here to answer your burning biz questions.

00:39:31

See you next time.