From burnout to being your own boss with Sabrina Walker
“I was a successful non-profit CEO but it came at a cost, of course. And so, when I was in the hospital undergoing a stem cell transplant, I just knew that I did not want anyone else to go through this. I knew it was time for me to retire. I also knew I didn't want anybody else to go through what I had went through. So I thought, “How can I help my fellow non-profit professionals in this journey?” - Sabrina Walker Hernandez
In today’s podcast, we’re chatting with Sabrina Walker Hernandez about how she moved from being completely burned out (including how that affected her health) to growing a business that allowed her to still serve nonprofits but in a way that protected herself and her own wellbeing. Through her company, Supporting World Hope, Sabrina is a trainer, facilitator, and coach who specializes in strategic planning, fundraising, and leadership development.
Highlights:
How Sabrina invested in herself - for her health, but also in learning to start a business
Getting clear on your business’ offerings and services
Working in your business vs. on your business and how to balance those two
Connect with Sabrina:
Website: sabrina@supportingworldhope.com
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/
The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions Podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
[00:00:03] Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house non-profit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.
[00:00:11] Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.
[00:00:20] Jess: We're on a mission to help other non-profit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
[00:00:30] Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a non-profit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofit is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
[00:00:52] Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
[00:01:11] Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're gonna empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
[00:01:28] Jess: You ready? Let's go.
[00:01:31] Jess: Welcome everyone to the Confessions Podcast. It is my absolute honor and privilege to welcome our guests today, the one and only Sabrina Walker Hernandez of Supporting World Hope. Let's have it. Yeah. We're so excited to chat with you. Thank you for being here.
[00:01:49] Sabrina: Thank you for having me. Thank you for inviting me to this stage. I'm pretty excited about what we are gonna be talking about.
[00:01:58] Jess: Well, and you have kind of really come onto the stage in a blazing way, and we're gonna get into that in a second. But for people who aren't familiar with you and your work, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came into the world of consulting for nonprofit organizations?
[00:02:18] Sabrina: Yeah. It is story. So, I retired in 2018 after being in an organization for 20 years. I was the CEO of the organization. And in 2018, though, I got diagnosed with cancer. I got diagnosed with lymphoma and multiple myeloma, which are both blood cancer, both related to stress, lifestyle and all that stuff like that.
[00:02:43] Sabrina: So I was a successful non-profit CEO but it came at a cost, of course. And so, when I was in the hospital undergoing a stem cell transplant, I just knew that I did not want anyone else to go through this. I knew it was time for me to retire. I also knew I didn't want anybody else to go through what I had went through. So I thought, “How can I help my fellow non-profit professionals in this journey?”
[00:03:15] Sabrina: And I thought, “I have so much information in my head. I know what I will do. I will start Supporting World Hope,” hence the name Supporting World Hope because nonprofit professionals give hope to the world and I want to be there to support them through that journey. So I started this practice.
[00:03:34] Jess: Amazing. And can you specifically tell us and the fine folks listening in, how do you get paid?
[00:03:41] Sabrina: So how do I get paid? So my first thing was, before I say how I get paid, let me just tell you what I invested in, right? Because I had to get some clarity around. It's one thing to sit in a hospital room and be like, "Okay, this is what I wanted to do." But I had to get some clarity around what services I wanted to provide and what message I wanted to take forward.
[00:04:07] Sabrina: So I actually invested in a coach, myself, because I've run a nonprofit, not necessarily in the business world. Now, I've always knew that running a nonprofit is like running a business, but there's still some elements to it that I didn't feel comfortable with.
[00:04:27] Sabrina: So I invested in a coaching program and a coach to help me clarify my message. And so, I'm proudly say that I help nonprofits and small businesses build a relationship that increase revenue. I'm a generalist in other words. So, I really focus on four categories of service and we'll get into that.
[00:04:51] Sabrina: But how I make money, right? 'Cause that's the whole point. How I make money is... a couple of things. I write blog posts. I'm gonna tell you everything. So I write blog posts for others. At first, when I first launched my company, I was doing all my own blog posts, right? And I was like, "Well, nobody's really reading them and how do I get traction?" I didn't understand that part of it.
[00:05:17] Sabrina: But then, after a while, people were reading them and I was getting approached by different companies to write blog posts for them. And we know the traditional like Blue Rain, Neon One, Donor Perfect. All of those. And so after a while I was like, "You know, I'm not gonna write blog posts," 'cause I was writing, I was cranking those suckers out like once a week and putting them on my site and doing all that.
[00:05:41] Sabrina: And then I thought, "No, I'm just gonna write for the people who are gonna pay me." And so that's a stage, right? So I'm gonna write for those people. And so I generate... it's not a lot, maybe like $5,000 a year in writing blog posts for others and putting it out there. But it not only does it put it out there, it allows me free marketing so it comes back. So that's one way I generate revenue.
[00:06:06] Sabrina: Another way that I generate revenue is that I am a trainer. I do facilitation or training. I go into small businesses and do leadership training. So that's another way. I do strategic planning as well. That's why I say I'm a generalist 'cuz I do fundraising. I do fundraising, coaching and executive coaching. And that's the way that I bring in revenue into my organization, into my business. And I have a course, and I have a course.
[00:06:42] Cindy: Oh, my goodness. I love that your revenue streams are so clear. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how did it start off, and you said you worked with a coach. Did it start off clear? Or how did you get to the point where you're like, "Okay, here's what I offer." It's so clean. I love it.
[00:07:01] Sabrina: Yeah. It did not start off clear. That's what the coach helped me with and not only the coach helped me with, but looking at people like Jess and looking at people like yourself. I think emulation is flattery. That's just the way I operate.
[00:07:21] Sabrina: And so I look at what others are doing and our community is so generous. Right? I felt very comfortable reaching out to different people to say, "You know, I'm struggling with this. What have you done? I'm this or that," and everybody has been so generous with providing that information that it's been wonderful.
[00:07:46] Sabrina: I will say another passive revenue sources. I created my funnel with kits. I do free webinars and things like that. But as a part of my upsell to that, there's kits that you can buy. And then my greatest revenue source is the summit that I put on. That's one of my greatest revenue sources and I really enjoy putting on that summit. It's actually coming up in October, so that's another revenue source. So I'm a generalist. And I dabble in a little bit of everything. It's like when I ran my non-profit, I said you have to diversify. You cannot have one source of your funding come from, one revenue stream. So...
[00:08:32] Jess: One thing I'm thinking about when you're talking about these different revenue sources in streams is how you get leads. Where are your clients in general coming from? Is that word of mouth, your marketing ads?
[00:08:49] Sabrina: It is not ads. I don't do ads. It is a lot of marketing. It's the newsletter. I have a newsletter that goes out once a week. It is my Facebook group. I have over five thousand people in my Facebook group. It is my social media being active on social media. I started out in Facebook 'cuz I'm old. That's where I felt comfortable. That's just my world. And then once I mastered Facebook, everybody said you have to be on Instagram. So I learned Instagram. I'm not as good at Instagram. I know Jess, you'll send me a message. It might take me a week to get back. So I'm still learning the Instagram, but everybody say gotta be on Instagram.
[00:09:36] Sabrina: But my three platforms, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. And I'm constantly using schedules, planners. The Facebook planner is awesome now because it allows you to schedule on LinkedIn, I mean, on Facebook and Instagram at the same time and you can tweak the message for each one. And then Buffer I use for LinkedIn so I can schedule my content.
[00:10:04] Sabrina: So I'm real active in that marketing game. I think that you have to one, establish your expertise and this is what I learned from my coach. You have to establish your expertise. You have to go into different groups and different platforms and you have to provide knowledge.
[00:10:25] Sabrina: The other great marketing tool is securing other people's stages, being guest on podcasts, writing those blogs, doing webinars and hosting webinars on other people's platforms. That has been really key in the success.
[00:10:48] Jess: So one thing, again, I'm thinking of, I mean, I have so many questions you should see my written down list is I know how much work Cindy knows how much work goes into working in your business versus on your business. And I'm curious as to if you were to guess what percentage of your time goes to working on your business versus in your business?
[00:11:15] Sabrina: Jesus. I'm learning. Okay. I'm a ‘in-progress’ person. I know one of the things that... Okay, let's be honest. How much is in and how much is on? I think 60-40, it could be better but I love marketing so I don't give that to anybody 'cuz I absolutely love it. I do have a virtual assistant that helps me with some things but I spend a lot of time on the business as well as in the business. I know there's some things that I need to give up but I love the marketing piece. I listened to something that you said, Jess, I think I went to one of your conferences or something and I finally gave up during my own finances. I was like, "Why am I doing that? I don't need to do that." So I gave that up. I gave that up.
[00:12:14] Cindy: I love that. First thing I gave up was bookkeeping. Okay. One of the things that Justin and I love to talk about offline, and I feel like we need to bring this into the conversation here is getting paid for your knowledge and expertise as a writer or... I'm gonna using quotes, thought leader here. I mean, you talk about revenue coming from writing blogs for other people. I know most of our listeners have written blogs, done webinars, spoken on stages for free over and over and over again, and we're trying to change that. And you seem to have some of that figured out. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how has that worked for you? How do you make decisions around? Do you do stuff for free anymore? What goes into that and how do you just put down your foot around your worth in value?
[00:13:14] Sabrina: I still do some things for free. I'm gonna be honest with you. I still do some things for free but the questions that I ask are how was your email list? Can I share a lead magnet? All of those things because I know if I can do that, then that is going to garner more leads for me. So it depends on how they answer the questions, right? And again, those questions are how many contacts do you have? Can I share a lead magnet? All of those things like that.
[00:13:50] Sabrina: But I'm also of the mind of looking at the company and seeing what they're trying to do. And then if that aligns with my values, again, I usually go for it. It's not necessarily are they paying me for it a lot of times. But at the same time, right, I'm in a business. And so you have to know going up front, "Here are my rates. Here is, if this is if you want. What I bring to the table, this is how much it's going to cost. Can we negotiate?" Yes. We can. I'm not opposed to negotiating. I'm okay with that. But know that you're a business, I'm a business, we're trying to create a win-win situation here.
[00:14:42] Jess: I love that. That's very helpful. I think it's also okay for people listening in to know that it's a case by case basis and you call the shots, right? One thing I'm thinking about is knowing that you are a long time successful nonprofit leader in fundraiser. The difference that you feel from working inside the nonprofit space and raising millions of dollars compared to what it's like to sell, quote, unquote "yourself."
[00:15:17] Jess: I know Cindy and I have done work. I'm doing a lot of still work on the whole selling piece and I'm just curious, what's the difference in your opinion or how you've approached the business? You just said, I'm in it for the business, right? You're not here to be a non-profit. So I'm just curious how you've navigated that mindset shift from your nonprofit life, which I know a lot of our listeners are from as well. So shifting into this for-profit space can be a real challenge.
[00:15:49] Sabrina: Yeah, and it's a challenge. I still deal with it every day. It's an ongoing process, right? So know that you are not alone. It's an ongoing process. However, you also need to know what your worth is and what value you bring to the table.
[00:16:11] Sabrina: I remember my first.. you know how you get... when you're first starting out, guys, you take everything. That's just the way it is. You're just worried. You take everything. And then you go through this space where you're like, "Okay, this is what I wanna do this. These are clients I wanna work with. Here are my rates." And then you get to that point where you put that rate before someone and you think it's a goal, and they say no and you feel bad and you think maybe I shouldn't have came so hard.
[00:16:46] Sabrina: But at the end of the day, you know your value, you know your worth. You know what you have to put into it to produce the quality of work that you do. And so it's okay if people say no. That just means that they were not your ideal client, right? And you keep doing, you keep putting your social proof out there. You keep doing all those things, and you believe it or not, they'll come back sometimes. They will come back because what they... you get what you pay. So they'll go to someone that maybe doesn't have as much experience or they'll have a different type of experience and they waste money and then they'll come back.
[00:17:27] Sabrina: And if they don't, they were never meant to be and it's okay. I always say... well, my momma always say and now I have deducted it. "God takes care of babies and souls," okay? And so if God protects you from a certain client, He is taking care of you, foo. Just embrace it.
[00:17:48] Jess: Okay, we're back with another rapid fire round of questions with the one and only Sabrina Walker Hernandez. Sabrina, you ready to play?
[00:17:56] Sabrina: I am.
[00:17:57] Jess: Okay. First question, share with us who some of your favorite teachers, coaches, or helpers are that you've learned from to improve your business.
[00:18:09] Sabrina: So, I'm gonna start off with Pete vargas. He was the one of the workshops, the coaching that I signed up for. So I'm gonna shout out to Pete Vargas and then I'm gonna shout out Ashley Kirkwood. She's good with the speaking part.
[00:18:26] Jess: Awesome. So it's giving season. I would love to know what is the number one gift you love to give?
[00:18:35] Sabrina: The number one gift I love to give is anything that I make with my own hands. I love crafting.
[00:18:41] Jess: Oh, like what?
[00:18:43] Sabrina: Oh, girl. I can craft you some paintings. I can craft you a necklace, I can craft you some earrings. I'm a crafter. I like craft.
[00:18:52] Jess: Oh, no way. I didn't know that about you. That's fun. And my last question is, outside of work, how do you enjoy spending your free time?
[00:19:01] Sabrina: Oh, I love spending my free time with my grandkids.
[00:19:04] Jess: Oh, how many?
[00:19:05] Sabrina: They are nine. I have two-three year olds and then a two year old. I have four of them.
[00:19:12] Jess: Super fun.
[00:19:14] Sabrina: Definitely.
[00:19:15] Jess: Oh, thank you for playing.
[00:19:16] Sabrina: Thank you.
[00:19:20] Cindy: I love that. I wanna talk... I wanna sort of bring this back full circle to what your story that you shared with us at the beginning of... basically, burnout, but a very extreme burnout that really compromised your health.
[00:19:37] Sabrina: Yep.
[00:19:37] Cindy: And I think we are sold this bill of goods around consulting that like, "I get to be in control and I'm gonna have work life balance," and like I've been doing this for seven years. This is the first year I've really felt that I've been in that position. So I'd love to hear, has that changed for you? How do you put up the boundaries if you have them? Are you working less? Are you working more? But it feels different. What does that, how does that show up now?
[00:20:10] Sabrina: How that shows up? That's a very good question because when I first started, I was used to the addicting behavior that I displayed in my nonprofit. I was creating the same kind of chaos and deadlines for myself that I had over there. It was normal. It's what I gravitated towards and I had to get some help around that. So getting, and it's not wrong to get help. When you know you have a problem, get help, and I had to get some help around that.
[00:20:45] Sabrina: So having gotten help and gone through that process. There's just certain things that I do now. People say you still create too much stuff, Sabrina. You're always busy. And I have a friend that says I'm never busy. I'm productive. Okay, so let's start there. I am productive. And so, I have my calendar and I have my schedule, and I schedule everything in, including family time, including all everything, right?
[00:21:16] Sabrina: And then there's little. treats that I have to do for myself because of who I am and my addicting personality. So I have to put my cell phone on sleeper mode at a certain time. I have to charge my cell phone in a whole another room so that I don't have access to it. When I take, I still take my laptop with me to my bedroom, but I take my laptop and I don't take the charging cord. So when the laptop goes dead, that is it. These are little things that I have to do for myself because of my personality and how I am. But I did have to have someone help me through that process.
[00:22:05] Sabrina: So now, as a consultant, I do get to be as busy as I want to be and you don't have to take every client and you don't have to do every job. And that's the part that I appreciate more than working for a nonprofit. 'Cause you know, when you work for a non-profit, everybody's dependent on you for their salary. Everybody, as a CEO. Now, you know what? if I don't wanna work, that's my salary. I'm only impacting me and I'm okay with that. So it's a little bit of a difference for me.
[00:22:41] Jess: I love those examples and as someone that is chronically busy, you can probably tell by my eyes that those are just really great examples and I aspire to be you. One of my goals is to charge myself on outside of my room too, so I love those just concrete examples.
[00:23:02] Sabrina: Yeah, don't do it in the bathroom though, because then the port will get water in it and it goes to the screen. So do it in another one.
[00:23:09] Jess: Good tip. So one of the things that came up while you were telling us about managing kind of your energy is. I'm curious because you do so many different revenue streams and they come. Does one thing over the other light you up? Have you figured that out? So you're like, "I'm gonna double down on that because I actually am not exhausted after a day of X," versus, "Oh my gosh, I have to really limit how much I do Y." I'm just curious if any of that has bubbled up over the---
[00:23:39] Sabrina: Oh yeah. Well, what are those? I love facilitation and I love training. Absolutely love. That gives me energy. That's what I like to do. Strategic planning, can drain me a little bit so I only do maybe like five a year but it's still facilitation. So that facilitation part of strategic planning gears me up and then where I have to sit down and do the plan and da da da da da, that part kind of brings me down.
[00:24:14] Sabrina: So there's that. Consulting? I do not also like the done for you services. Does that sound bad? I don't like the done for you services. So if you want me to consult with you, it's a VIP consulting day and you pay me for that day. So it is priced at a premium because I don't like to do it. So if you want me and you want me to do it, you're gonna pay me to do it. So that's, that's that.
[00:24:48] Sabrina: And then, before I even started my business, I knew I absolutely hate grant writing. You cannot pay me enough to do grant. So it's not a part of my service plan. Can I do it? Yes. Did I do it? Yes. But it brings me so far down that you can't pay me enough to do it. And there's a lot of clients out there for grant writing. I get it all the time, but you can't pay me enough to do it.
[00:25:22] Jess: I know. Seriously. Bless the people that wanna do grant writing.
[00:25:25] Sabrina: Yes. Yeah.
[00:25:27] Jess: The next question I wanna turn back to a little bit is you mentioned kind of just briefly that you have this 5,000 strong person Facebook group, which is, especially these days, not an easy feat to achieve. Can you tell us a little bit about how you've built that Facebook group and what it does for you in your business?
[00:25:47] Sabrina: Oh yeah. You know, I'm gonna shout out Shauna Douglas. And she has a course that helps you grow your Facebook group. And I took her course and took her coaching. Look, I'm all about if you don't know how to do something. Invest in learning how to do it and work with the people who know how to do it. Because time is money. Now, could I figure it out? Yeah, I can figure it out. There's YouTube and all that for everything, but time is money, so why would I do that? You know, go down that Google rabbit hole, I'm gonna pay somebody who knows what they're doing. So anyway, Shawna Douglas. Shout out. Shout out. Shout out.
[00:26:26] Sabrina: There's some things that we did to grow the group that it was all organic, it's bringing value. It's going into other people's group, answering their questions, people will follow you. It's getting on those stages and sharing out your group information. It's that consistency in marketing. It's all of those things. But I have over 5,000 people and I look at the analytics and I will be honest with you, over those 5,000 people, there's probably half that are active because Facebook tells you that. And that's, to me, that's still good.
[00:27:06] Sabrina: And so, what I do in my group to impact my revenue is I put my services in there, here are my services, but it's not about selling. So it really is a... I use a percentage. So 60% is like curated content and I learned this also from.. and I'll shout out another name, Roshelle Edmonton. She's a marketing person who's very good. So 60% is like curated content I'm sharing. Quote, I'm motivating you. I'm doing all those kinds of things. And then 20% is knowledge. So I do free coaching. I do live challenges. I do sipping tea interviews where I bring in other experts. I'm not afraid to bring in someone else who also fundraises because just everybody wants something different. My personality might not fit with you.
[00:28:15] Sabrina: And so I want people to know there's multiple options out there and everybody might do something different. So I bring in different speakers, whether it's on cyber security, whether it's on branding, whether it's on marketing, whether it's on fundraising, all those kinds of things. And then the other 20%, it is where we call the icky stuff. I still feel icky. It's sales. You know what I do executive coaching. I do this. Here's a kit that I have. This is what I do. All of those things. So that's kind of the formula that I use and it's been working out pretty well.
[00:28:50] Sabrina: And what happens is it's a long term game. Because at first, I was like this. Crap is not working. I'm gonna be very honest with you. I was like, "This is some bull. I'm putting a lot of time in this and it ain't working." And as soon as I was about to give up, that's when people started reaching out to me.
[00:29:12] Sabrina: So people, what I realized in Facebook groups, on YouTube channels, all social media, people are looking. And just because they're not engaging, doesn't mean that they will not engage. You show up, you be consistent. You keep sharing your message, especially in a nonprofit world, when they have a project, and they will think of you so you gotta be at the forefront of their thoughts. All you're doing is staying consistent and making them think of you. "Oh yeah, I think she does this. Let me reach out to her. Oh, I know she does this. Let me reach out to her."
[00:29:52] Cindy: I love that description of patience because I think we forget sometimes, or I know a lot of people I've seen, they sort of put themselves out there and they take it as a reflection of their own value if they don't get people responding or engaging or booking them right away, and they don't think that it takes time. And I love that you explained that.
[00:30:20] Cindy: And I also wanna ask you about your Facebook group versus your email list because again, we're sort of like taught that email is everything and I'd love to know how you manage those two. What you talked about goes in the Facebook group. How does it differ from your email list? Are they the same people? Are they different? What does that look like?
[00:30:46] Sabrina: Well, so at first, I was making a rookie mistake in my Facebook group requiring that people put their email. And the reason why I was doing that, because I was automatically subscribing them to my email list. And so, and if you didn't put your email, I was declining you. And they were like, "No, no, no, no. Don't do that." So I learned to not to do that even if they don't put their email, they still get approved. And then you give them a chance to raise their hand in your group and that's how you capture their email. So you might put a PDF of something, a checklist or something and say, "Who wants this?" And then they say yes, and then you send them the link to your funnel and they get on your email list. So don't have that fight. That's one.
[00:31:40] Sabrina: The email list is separate from the Facebook group, right? I have more in my Facebook group than I have on my email list, believe it or not. And I'm okay with that because my emails come to you once a week. I understand that getting a lot of emails make people nervous. Well, I'm gonna say this, it makes me nervous. I get so shaky because I feel like for me, an email is like a things to-do list. And so what I wanna do is clean out my email box as soon as I can. So if you are on my email list, I really like you. You bring value, right? And so that's what I strive to do. I strive to bring value. And so with my email newsletter, it is changed.
[00:32:34] Sabrina: And so now, I do like the Fabulous Vibe, and that is really the how to. How to set up your Facebook group. How to do, I'm looking for, I'll go look for something like that. Maybe Jess wrote, or I'll go to Jess... And Jess, I think you have a thank you template or something like that. I'll share that as one of my Fabulous Vibe. It's that concrete stuff so people don't have to go searching all over the internet for stuff like that. And then I'll share a free resource, and then I always share two grant sources because it don't matter how much I tell people, you're new, you're not gonna get a grant. You know, they want that information so you gotta give the people what they want. So I give the people what they want,
[00:33:22] Sabrina: And then I do the professional build, professional development. Here's workshops that are coming up in the community. And so I break all the rules when it comes to email. I send my email on Friday, at six o'clock and I only have like two graphics. It's all text. Jess, I actually got that from you. You made a comment one time about, "let's see how this goes." Like research says people don't want the pictures. So I look try that. So I get like the 35% open rate people to actually look forward to the emails.
[00:34:01] Sabrina: So that. I do believe in having your email list because remember that day Facebook went down? You have to remember, Facebook owns that data, LinkedIn own that data, Instagram owns that data, but my email list? Is mine. And so, let's say Facebook went down for more than two days, at least I can still communicate with people using my email. So...
[00:34:29] Jess: Do you ever sell an email? Do you ever say, "My waitlist is open," or, "I'm selling my course," or talk about the selling part?
[00:34:38] Sabrina: I do. Yes, I do. What I do is at the very top of my email, it's my quick links. It's highlighted, it stands out. It has a tool. It has a toolkit in there. I was trying to be nice and not sell on my email, so I was putting, "work with me," and all that at the bottom of the email. And I was like it goes down there. I know they say the PS, they do, but nobody goes down there. I was looking at the analytics, I'm like, "They stopped reading about midway through this email." So I'm gonna put it at the very top. I'm gonna be bold about it. I'm gonna put it at the very top. And so I do and it made a difference. And so I try to highlight, there, that, right?
[00:35:29] Sabrina: And then, on Tuesday, I try not to... I send an email once a week. But if I have something I really wanna push, you will expect to hear from me on a Tuesday as well. So if it's something like a course or my summit, something like that, I'll send it on the Friday as a quick link. But then I'll send you a dedicated email on a Tuesday specifically about that summit or that item or that course. So that seems to have worked.
[00:36:00] Sabrina: You know, you gotta kind of be your own best advocate and ambassador, right? If you bury yourself down at the bottom of your own communication, where does that tell people you're at? What value are you espousing yourself?
[00:36:18] Cindy: Oh my goodness. Such wisdom. Everyone needs to hear that again. We're running out of time, which is so sad. But I wanna ask you, we love asking for confessions. So what's the one thing that you like, maybe don't wanna do meant… for those listening, Sabrina and Jess are like dancing around to Usher, which----
[00:36:44] Sabrina: "These are my confessions..." I'm sorry. I guess just you gotta say it.
[00:36:49] Cindy: Yeah. Yeah. This is not the first time it's come up on the podcast and it won't be the last. but I'd love to know, especially because you are so self-aware. I love how in it deliberate you've been with getting resources to help you where accelerate faster. And so I'd love to know what are the things that you wanna work on or that you're working on coming up?
[00:37:13] Sabrina: The things I wanna work on is I feel like, and this really is a confession. So I feel like I truly believe that fundraising is about building relationships. I don't think it's complicated. And I think I've gotten in front of big clients like big corporations like MasterCard and things like that, and I'll do my pitch. And I haven't been picked up by any of them and bigger nonprofits too. And I feel like sometimes, I keep it too simple that they don't value the simplicity of it.
[00:38:05] Cindy: Oh...
[00:38:07] Sabrina: Yeah.
[00:38:07] Cindy: And also, I feel like that's something that's about our sector. I find that sometimes people want complicated solutions because what does it mean if it's simple and they still haven't figured it out.
[00:38:26] Sabrina: Right. But it is that simple. I question myself. Yeah, I can go in and do all these graphics and studies and I don't wanna play that game. But I think at some point, I might have to, if I wanna elevate. I don't know. I'm still deciding. I really am struggling with it. I'm still deciding.
[00:38:53] Jess: When you land on a decision, you'll have to come back and let us know how it goes. So, as we wrap up this call, Sabrina, thank you again for your transparency, your just such wisdom as Cindy said. Your insights, your information. For anyone that is interested in just connecting with you or following along with your work, where is the best place for folks to find you?
[00:39:21] Sabrina: Find me on my website at www.supportingworldhope.com. From there, you can find me anywhere, Facebook, LinkedIn, but start there at the website.
[00:39:35] Cindy: Thank you so much. That was so full of wisdom. Thank you.
[00:39:43] Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions Podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
[00:39:54] Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy so we can repost you.
[00:40:02] Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow non-profit coach or consultant.
[00:40:07] Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so that we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.
[00:40:13] Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.
[00:40:20] Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.
[00:40:27] Cindy: See you next time.