“So just allow the process to be the process. Take it easy on yourself and don't overthink it. Just do what you do best. As long as you do good and you have pure intentions, like the revenue, the clients, the good things, the opportunities will find you. I don't have to stress out on trying to find it. “ - Sheleia Phillips

Business evolution with Sheleia Phillips

Our guest for today's episode is Sheleia Phillips, the brains behind SMP Nonprofit Consulting and a former biologist turned grant writing coach. Since its inception, she has expanded from a part-time to a full-time endeavor, and now she runs group coaching programs. Get the inspiration and knowledge you need to learn about and succeed in the competitive world of grant writing.

Highlights:

1. Sheleia’s journey from being a biologist to a grant writer and eventually a full-time grant writing coach

2. The importance of finding your community, networking, and learning from mentors

3. How she started her side hustle and took the leap to go full time

4. Her savvy use of social media to expand her network

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Sheleia Philips: 

Website: https://www.smpnpc.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheleia-phillips-mph-ches-a9901a108

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me

Transcript:

00:00:00 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

00:00:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. Where two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.

00:00:11 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

00:00:20 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.

00:00:30 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

00:00:52 Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

00:01:11 Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

00:01:27 Jess: You ready? Let's go.

00:01:32 Jess: You were talking to us about energy, and I want to just dive into, what do you think the biggest energy differences are required between working one on one with a client versus holding space for a group of people at one time?

00:01:50 Sheleia: Yeah, so I think just naturally, when you're working with someone one on one, you're able to focus on them as a client, the issues and the challenges that they're facing as an organization and really fine tune what your solution is going to be. It 's pretty standard, basically. While you may have two or three other folks in the room that are part of the project, you're really just focusing on whoever the lead person is and those main issues. Now, when you're in a group coaching program, it's a little bit different. Now you have multiple folks with multiple issues and they span, especially for grant writing coaching. It could be, “We aren't able to find the right grants for our nonprofit. Sheleia, what should we do?” Or “Sheleia, we're applying for 50 grants every year, but we're only getting two.” Now I have to switch my brain from, okay, this is a research issue versus maybe this is a writing issue or a challenge. And you have so many folks who may not know what I call the art and the science of grants, where we're really complementing their learning style.

00:03:01 Sheleia: So some folks are really audio based. All they need to hear me do is talk through content and concepts. But for some folks, they have visual needs and maybe they need some more help in homework. When I do one on one clients, we don't have a lot of take homework that they come back to do, but in group coaching, we definitely have to have those supplemental opportunities for them to learn. And while I can't be there all the time, I'm there once a week when we do our coaching calls. There is still another energy pool and making sure that our learning modules are up to date and that homework is uploaded that we don't typically think about until you're actually in and running a coaching program. So it's different. While the goal is the same, I think in my opinion, you use a lot more energy with a group than you do one on one. But it's a smart, scalable solution for business owners if you have the emotional and mental capacity and bandwidth to hold space for it.

00:03:55 Jess: All right, thank you so much for that breakdown. And we're going to dive into this a little bit more because you mentioned scaling, which I know for at least when I've asked, it's one of the more popular questions. Today, we are speaking with the one and only Sheleia Phillips of SMP Nonprofit Consulting. She is an extraordinary grant writer who has evolved her business from being a side hustle to her full time gig, to working one on one with clients, to now evolving to group coaching programs. And we're going to get into it all. So let's hear how it all began. Take us back to when Sheleia was that side hustling queen, doing probably lots of hours working per week. I know the eyes. What was that spark to have you make the leap into entrepreneurship?

00:04:54 Sheleia: Yeah, just to be honest, the story started a little bit before then. So for the folks who were on the new phase, I started out in this work not even in the nonprofit industry. I started out as a biologist. I'm a biologist by trade. But I know with all of the things, we had a lot of technical writing that we had to do on a day to day basis. So I was really unhappy once I graduated from undergrad because I noticed that I love people and I wasn't working with enough people. Being in the lab all day long, I very rarely saw the sun come up because I was in the lab and then I very rarely saw it come down. I was not fulfilled there. Although I enjoyed the work. I'm a data nerd. You all probably can pick that up, but I wasn't enjoying it. And I knew that I wasn't making the impact that I had always dreamed of.

00:05:45 Sheleia: So when I went to grad school, utilized those same skills in the field of public health. And part of that process was to have an internship at a local boys and girls club. So I saw my opportunity at one of the clubs here that I actually grew up in. So I was like, "Oh, this is a shoe in. This is going to be easy." Literally just doing health work. You, all applying those skills. Science nerd, they're like, "Hey, we need to teach the kids about health and healthy eating and things like that." One day, my old boss was like, "Hey, we have an especially big coming up. You all know how this work can be. Nonprofits, they don't care if you come in under one hat, you're wearing 50 others. Like, it's all other duties as assigned" That was actually the first time in my life I actually understood what other duties assigned meant. So they were throwing a special event. And literally, I want to say the day of the special event, we had this large grant due. Nobody could write it because they were getting bags together, doing all of the things. And I remember going to the bathroom and freaking out. I was like, “I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a biologist. I'm not a grant writer.”

00:06:47 Sheleia: Crazy enough, the grant writing coach didn't even know what a grant was, okay? It was just not even my thing. But I coached myself to think of it as, it's just a research paper. There are questions, and then you just have to come up with a response. So that's where the grant writing coach was born. I literally was like, “Hey, I know how to write, and I'm just going to stick with that.” Eventually moved forward from the organization, maybe five or six years later, joined another local nonprofit. Here, where I was able to learn the systems that go into grant writing. So I learned the science of grant writing and increasing my technical skills, how to tell a story, how to craft equitable language, and things like that. In my first job and in my second job, I really learned the art and that's more of the systems and how we can do our job more efficiently because they have more resources, more people. I had a lot more folks that I had to be accountable to at the time.

00:07:47 Sheleia: And boom. Pandemic hit March of 2020. It was two weeks, y'all, after my 30th birthday. Crazy way to enter your 30's, okay? And I'm sure other nonprofit pros can feel this when I say, like, the work just became more and more intense and insane. Organizations were in a space where they needed more funds. There were multiple emergency COVID dollars coming down the pipeline, and there were five or six grants a week. So the pressure of that, along with some other long standing, I would say culture and just leadership issues at the organization I was with at the time, I was overwhelmed. I was just like, “You know what? This isn't a right fit for me because I want to do something different.” Now, I didn't think that I was going into grant writing full time because I was just subcontracting. I would go to work nine to five and work side projects from five to nine. But eventually, it became so overwhelming for me mentally and emotionally to do both, where I was like, “I'm just going to take a leap of faith.” And if it doesn't work out, you can go anywhere and get a job.

00:08:53 Sheleia: But thank God, that once I made that leap of faith, opportunities came. I had an opportunity to meet you all and meet other nonprofit pros on platforms like Clubhouse and Instagram. Social media, it still is good to me, let me not say that. But I was able to really expand my reach outside of St. Louis, using social media because I like to call it my straight pop note chaser approach to writing grants and what the world of grant writing looks like. And it's been a blessing. We have about 4500 folks in our social community overall since I want to say, March of 2021 when I went full time, it was just like, “You know what, you all? I'm out here and quitting my job and all of that.” So that's how the grant writing coach was born, and we're enjoying it. We're still learning a lot. I don't have all of the answers, but I can definitely say that it was the right step for me at the time, especially when I look back at things in hindsight.

00:09:52 Jess: You're amazing.

00:09:54 Sheleia: And you, too.

00:09:56 Jess: You're definitely the first biologist we've ever had on the podcast. Okay, I have a bunch of questions, but one that I want to stay on is, I think your story is super relatable to working in an in house job and feeling the overwhelm and the stress, and here you are side hustling. I'm curious how that side hustle began. Were you just out to brunch and people were like, “What are you doing for work?” And then people were like, “Oh, I need a grant writer.” How did you even start that side hustle? Because it seems like that gave you the confidence to take the leap to going full time, where I know a lot of consultants struggle because they're like, “I don't know, man. Even though this job is really stressful and there's a lot going on, at least it's consistent.” So I'm curious how that side hustle even got started.

00:10:52 Sheleia: Yeah, for sure. So I actually met one of my mentors at a women's business conference. So…

00:11:01 Jess: Will you tell us which one?

00:11:02 Sheleia: Yeah. So Teresa Wilke. She's here in St. Louis with me. I met her at Master Class 2000 and maybe was it 2019, somewhere in there? It was before the pandemic, though. We were in a class where we were talking about just networking and bartering services and just the power of having a community. And one of the exercises that the facilitator had us do was to get up, say what you were doing for a living and what is it that you need. Now, I know you all probably won't believe this. I am a natural introvert. So when folks are like, “Raise your hand and tell me.” I'm not the first one to raise my hand, like how I'm doing public speaking now, that is a learned behavior. It's not natural. I remember being so terrified. And one of my girlfriends at the time, she was like, “You, always talking about, you need somebody to help you out with grants. You just needed some mentorship and specifically talking about budgets and finances.” And the crazy part was I was the last one. That's how terrified I was. I was like, “It's now or never. It's now or never.”

00:12:06 Sheleia: So got up, did my spiel, and I want to say it's like one or two people in the class, not my mentor, that were extending their arm for help and things like that. But after the class, when we were getting ready to walk out, Theresa walked up to me. She was like, “Oh my God, we never ever get to see other grant writing.” She called us unicorns at the time. And I was like, “I know. It's always like, it's one grant writer and you're the sole grant writer, and then it's maybe somebody 50 or 60 miles away.” So just having that laughter and just immediate connection to one another was our starting point. So after that we would meet up at Bread Co. and places like that just to talk about projects, to talk about the work because I was still working full time. So I needed someone that talked the same language. So it's really important to find your people so that you can not only feel seen, but they understand the challenges that you're embracing and from that relationships launch so many others. So I'm blessed to have a handful of mentors who I can call on for all different types of just grant writing, what we'll call quirks, right?

00:13:13 Sheleia: So client issues, to project management, to what do I need to offer? What about pricing? All of these different things. I was even introduced to GPA through her and another mentor, [Monique] at beginning. So all of that fear and I'm not going to say anything. Had I kept my mouth shut, I wouldn't have had access to not only the network, but the professional development opportunities, the referrals, or even just the solid people that I've come across and other grant writing professionals had I not raised my hand. So I started subcontracting with her on a few local projects and that allowed me to see what the other side, I like to call it, the other side of the world looked like. It was more of an interesting transition for me to work as an independent contractor versus someone that was in house because I learned this [how], we have the ability to say no with very minimal consequence. It wasn't like, “Oh, Sheleia, you can't say no. I can't approve your PTO because we need you, this day.” It was literally like, “Okay, we can't get this deliverable in by this time because maybe someone's out of town or maybe this is out of scope.” It really built my ability to say no and really helped me see that as a professional, I have more autonomy as an independent contractor than I did in a nine to five. So while I had the skill of grant writing, I did not have the skill of people management or business, what I like to call, business savvy. So I did a slow roll into that and eventually hopped into full time once I felt comfortable. Not all the way comfortable, but more comfortable.

00:14:56 Jess: Totally. I know. Do we ever really get all the way comfortable? I'm still waiting. So...

00:14:56 Sheleia: No.

00:15:02 Jess: I love that so much. I know Cindy and I are big proponents of finding your people and having people who get it. And for anyone listening that has yet to find that, make that assignment number one because it is a change for the better. One thing I was wondering about when you were giving us your origin story is you said, “Social has been good to us.” And I want to dive into that a little bit and hear the role it's played as you started your business because I'll just speak from personal experience. I don't want to speak for Cindy. I find Social to be exhausting. I do it. I do it. But you also show up on Instagram, which is also my platform. And I'm just curious about your experience and what maybe your funnel in the Instagram land has looked like and why you say it's been good to you.

00:16:05 Sheleia: Of course, this is probably the best coaching advice. Now, I am not a marketing expert at all, but this is the best business coaching advice that I can give you all from a nonprofit pro perspective. When I started out on Social, that was literally the only avenue that I had. So while I had an Instagram, it was very much like how to content, how to draft a mission statement, how to do this, and there weren't a lot of folks engaging. When I started working with my business coach, Jereshia Hawk, one of the things she taught us is, folks do not care about how to content until they pay you. What you need to do to bring them in is to have polarizing perspectives. So how I got into and got more comfortable with having a polarizing perspective, which wasn't entirely different than what I was already doing, I was just doing it behind the scenes. If I was talking to someone, I'm like, “Yeah, this is what I think about that.” And I don't agree. It was more so a personal transaction or interpersonal transaction than it was being very public about my opinion.

00:17:16 Sheleia: At the time, Clubhouse was out, when everybody was on Clubhouse hosting 60 minute rooms, but I still had this fear of public speaking. What you all have probably seen in the world of grants is that when folks, who have some level of insight on grants, but aren't necessarily grant pros, there was a lot of fluff going on. It was a lot of misinformation going on. And while I had this fear of public speaking, I felt compelled and really responsible to be like, I'm raising my hand. I have a different opinion. I don't want to utilize all of our time, but there's a lot of fluff and a lot of just scams around the grant writing world.

00:18:01 Cindy: Grant writing across the nonprofit sector. Yeah, like...

00:18:07 Cindy: Everyone thinks they know better than us, right?

00:18:10 Sheleia: Yes. And you have to really pull receipts. So I started my journey with Social just by telling the truth, specifically using Clubhouse, and that then compelled folks to follow me on Instagram. At the time, I wasn't on LinkedIn like that, or to find me on Facebook, but that was my initial shoeing. I guess they were like, “Oh, she knows what she's talking about.” And I was just like, “It's not that I want to show up as the expert. I'm just telling you all the truth. No, you cannot get a grant to go on vacation. Let's just stop it right here.” Respectfully, not to say anything against the host that's saying, “Here's seven steps to win a million dollars in grants in three days.” I'm just like, “No, just uh-huh.” Here's what you can do, and here's some resources. I don't say anything without, what is it, my [SAL Resources]. That's the biologist in me. So that's how it started. Folks were like, “Oh, she knows what she's talking about, and she's giving away resources,” Et cetera, etcetera.

00:19:03 Sheleia: Got on Instagram right around the time reels were really hot. Again, I'm terrified of, at the time speaking, showing my face. But I started doing these reels and informational videos that were just really funny. So I made fun of a lot of the grant writing on commission. That one went viral. I think it had 10,000 views. And I was just being silly that day. I made a few, on things, like, the kid with the Jibber Jabber. And they're like, when a client wants you to write a grant, but they don't know what they want to write the grant for, things like that. So it was just humor. People were like, “Oh, my God.” Especially consultants, they're like, “Oh, my gosh, Sheleia, you speaking to our hearts. Can we share this?” And I'm like, “Yeah, sure.” So I got a chance to network with other grant writers like that. But what I've noticed with platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and even Clubhouse, they go through so many significant changes that it's not a sustainable marketing avenue solely. Let me just say that. I had to over time as our ideal client evolved, as our network and connections evolved. Reach into the LinkedIn, and even an email list. So our email list is what I call our virtual real estate. That's what we own. I don't have to worry about Instagram being down one day and I can't reach out to my target audience, or I don't have to worry about LinkedIn not showing my post because we know how LinkedIn can be. It's much better now.

00:20:29 Sheleia: But with our virtual real estate, aka, our email list, now, I can really have that personal touch point. Once a week, they can engage with me. I have a direct email that if I put a call to action, like, “Hey, reply to this with your thoughts.” Actually it's me responding to them. So I will say our flow was more baptism by fire. But through that baptism by fire, I learned that we should be on, all spaces, right? Allow people to reach you where they are, but you have those preferred spaces where you put a lot more energy in because Social is exhausting, because the algorithm can change. And alongside that, I like repurposing. The introvert in me does not like showing up three days a week on live. I rather do one live and break up those pieces of content on LinkedIn or send out an email to say, “Can you watch the replay?” And things like that. So you have to be, at all spaces, but not in the same capacity. For each platform, utilize or prioritize one major platform to get your big evergreen content out and then break it up in little pieces for spaces like Instagram, LinkedIn and all of that.

00:21:35 Jess: Brilliant. Say it louder. Say it louder.

00:21:37 Cindy: Both Jess and I are nodding vigorously.

00:21:45 Sheleia: There’s this one, the email list. And I'm always watching lots of emails on, like email marketing because I'm like, “You know what? That's genius.”

00:21:54 Cindy: Jess is genius when it comes to emails.

00:22:01 Jess: I will say this just about you, Sheleia, that you said somewhere in this interview already that you're not comfortable showing up as the expert. And I, too, am uncomfortable with that label. But the more I subscribe to other email newsletters...I'm starting to think that I am.

00:22:22 Jess: Maybe we just need to get over ourselves and accept the fact that we are experts at certain things. Because it just caught me when you said that. I was like, “Oh, I have that same mindset. Oh, wait, I'm an introvert. Maybe it's all related.”

00:22:36 Sheleia: Just to be fair, I don't think it's an issue of confidence. I think our focus is more so being a servant. I never came into this being an expert because I know it all. I came into it being a servant because people need support and they need accurate information. So when you make that transition, I think it's just becoming comfortable from putting your focus on everyone else and really having that internal acceptance of, while I'm helping other people, I actually am, the expert. I'm the thought leader in this space, not because I know it all, but because I have a heart to serve people. And that's really at the core of why we do the work that we do. So it's okay.

00:23:23 Jess: That's a really good reframe. Thank you.

00:23:25 Sheleia: It's a good...

00:23:26 Jess: I need that like, can you call me, like 8:00 AM every day and just tell me that, that'd be great.

00:23:31 Sheleia: Put it on a big sticky note. I have human size sticky notes that I have to affirm myself. I got chill out at the top, and now I need to add. We are servants. We're servants.

00:23:45 Cindy: That's so funny. That's actually been my guiding word. A lot in my business is always that service. I love that.

00:23:59 Jess: It's time to play another round of our rapid fire questions, this time with Sheleia Phillips. Are you ready to play?

00:24:06 Sheleia: Yes.

00:24:07 Jess: Okay. My first question is, you mentioned in the show that you're an Enneagram one. What's the most Enneagram one thing that you do?

00:24:18 Sheleia: Oh, I plan. I will plan a day, even if it's just going to Starbucks. Okay. I'll meet you there at 9:30. We'll chill out to about 10:45. And then when I come back, I got to work from 11:00 to 3:00. It's so natural, I don't even think about it. So it's definitely the plan inside and giving people an itinerary.

00:24:36 Jess: I love being friends with people like you.

00:24:39 Sheleia: Thank you, Jess. Because I am surrounded by folks who get stressed out by itineraries, and I'm like, “It's because I love you. Okay.” I just want--

00:24:47 Jess: As someone who will never plan an itinerary, but loves to do the fun things.

00:24:53 Sheleia: Yeah.

00:24:55 Jess: Sorry.

00:24:56 Sheleia: It shows that we're thoughtful. We don't want to waste your time. That's a good reframe. Now, I do need help with being spontaneous, so they help me balance that out. But I'll plan a date.

00:25:07 Jess: Okay, I'm going to remember that. What was your first job?

00:25:11 Sheleia: Victoria's Secret. I was a sales girl at Victoria's Secret. I was 16 or 17. I was responsible for the PINK floor, and you all know the infamous drawers, all of that. It was a really interesting job. It was fun, though.

00:25:29 Jess: I love it. And you mentioned your coach, Jereshia.

00:25:35 Sheleia: Yeah, Jereshia Hawk.

00:25:37 Jess: And I'm curious what coaches you're looking forward to working with in the future?

00:25:42 Sheleia: I don't know. So if you all have a list of folks that I need to start planning to invest in, please let me know. I think I made a decision to slow down investments until I got more clarity on the business because I'm big on, I'm only going to buy what I'm going to use, and I need to show up in a different way. So the business itself, in terms of operations, needed me more than professional development. So next year, or maybe even later on this year, I'll be looking into some more coaching programs.

00:26:14 Jess: Okay, well, then on a scale of 1 to 10, what's your recommendation for the program that you went through, like, out of this world would recommend? It was really good for me because I run a group coaching program, or what's the vibe?

00:26:27 Sheleia: Out of this world, I will tell you, like I tell everybody, the investment was worth its weight in gold. I was a part of the services, that sales component, which she's sunset since then, but now I can't remember the name, so I apologize. There's a new iteration of it where you walk through the same curriculum, updated curriculum, but outside of how she teaches you to package your offers, she's just a gem of wisdom for business altogether and how to think about things strategically and even how to navigate business issues through a recession. So I tell folks all the time, follow her on Social. If you can provide transformations through social media and podcasts, I have no problem giving you my money respectfully. So I followed her for a long time before I made an investment, and there were so many different things that I could implement and get quick wins that I was super comfortable with paying for her coaching.

00:27:26 Jess: I’ve heard that.

00:27:27 Sheleia: Yeah.

00:27:27 Jess: I've heard she's the real deal. Okay. I appreciate you playing. Thank you.

00:27:30 Sheleia: Thank you.

00:27:36 Cindy: I hear so much of your growth and investment in yourself, I think is what I like, because I hear you speaking and saying things that I know experts will say, and you so internalized and taken the coaching that you've had and made it work, and I love everything you're saying. So I actually want to talk a little bit about what your business looks like now.

00:28:03 Sheleia: Okay.

00:28:04 Cindy: And you mentioned your coach, Jereshia?

00:28:10 Sheleia: Yeah, Jereshia Hawk.

00:28:12 Cindy: Yeah, who is amazing. And from what I've heard her speak about, it's very much taking almost your IP, right, and how do you package your IP. So talk to us a little bit about that process of being known for something. What do you sell today, and how do you get paid and all that fun stuff?

00:28:38 Sheleia: Yeah. So let me start, Cindy, with the IP and the importance of making sure that you are protecting and also valuing your intellectual property as a consultant. So one of the first things that Jereshia drilled in our heads is making sure that you're documenting your process. And when we're working with clients, especially in one on one, we're creating as we go. We're like, “Oh, their needs shifted. One day, I can make this or I can make that.” And then you're really not thinking about all of the value and all of just amazing content that you can then repurpose for another client or get this, standardize it for your group coaching program. So with that mental practice of, I like to call it, Explain It Like I'm Five. She had us do a lot of Explain It like I'm Five type activities that helped me unpack what I knew in my head. And if it was too complex, it challenged me to then break it down even more so that unpacking of my intellectual property then turned into our coaching program the right solution, which really all in its infant stage was just initially, the first round was supposed to be 12 weeks. It ended up being 16 because it was just so much coming up at the same time where I didn't know how to put a cap on it. I do know how to put cap on things now because, don't over deliver. Yeah, do what you do in excellence, but don't over deliver where you wear yourself out. And I didn't know that, the first round.

00:30:16 Sheleia: So definitely with unpacking your intellectual property, there's so much value in even the most simple things. And then even if it's complex, you can break it down to being very simple. So how my business model has evolved? Initially, I was doing a lot of coaching calls. So for one hour, for a fee, you could pick my brain on everything, grant. That wasn't really sustainable because I'm learning that folks, they want something tangible. And then for the folks, there are types of clients that feel like they don't have to pay for calls. So it was a weird experience for me, especially starting out. So while I still have those, I don't offer them publicly anymore. And outside of that, I did a lot of them for you work on very small projects and subcontracting. Now that was cool. But one thing that I can say about that season of the business is that it kept me overly busy and not strategic. So I had to learn how to navigate how much subcontracting work I wanted to take on. Because yes, it's recurring revenue, I don't have to worry about it. But I also want to expand our own client portfolio and what does that look like. I didn't have any initial hardcore services at the time. It was just like, whatever you need me to do, that was related to grants. Here's my hourly fee, I'm good. But we all know when you work on an hourly basis, you're doing so much. And 9 times out of 10, you may even be undercharging because you're not paying attention to time trackers and being on top of the other things administratively, especially, when you're solopreneur.

00:31:58 Sheleia: So I want to say maybe two years in, I got this overwhelming conviction to start standardizing our offers and having offers for different types of ideal clients. So what that looks like now, today, 2023 for folks who are just now starting out, they have no idea about what goes on in the world of grants. Or maybe they just started their 501C3 and they're really in that education space, not necessarily execution. Social media is your best bet. That's all free content. There is nothing on our pages that is generic. You will get something. You'll be able to take a quick win and apply it and see some results. Or they can enroll in the ABCs of grant writing, which is our digital learning toolkit. That is my, like, here's the ABCs and the one, two, threes of grants just to get you started, to get you grant ready. And once they graduate from there, for folks who've been in the game two to three years, they have some traction, evidence of impact and they're ready to apply for grants and win them consistently. We have the right solution. So that 's our 12 week group coaching program, all of Sheleia's intellectual property packed out in not only the coaching, which happens once a week. We're debating on if that's going to be in the evening or earlier in the afternoon in the fall.

00:33:22 Sheleia: But not only that, they have a curriculum of homework assignments and group assignments that they walk through to help them get grants ready and have that peer to peer connection. Because I'm learning that sometimes, you can grasp concepts from me, but you can definitely learn and really enhance your experience when you're with other nonprofit pros in the same space. And for those clients who are, what we call their established nonprofits, that's where we do a lot of the done-for-you work. So you can outsource your entire grants department with us, or if you just need us to be hands on with maybe one or two grants, we're here. Or what we're getting a lot of now, which surprises me, I don't know where this just came from, although I'm grateful for it. We're getting a lot of grant research and landscape analysis, so institutional fundraising analysis of who's out there, who's funding, what are our opportunities to get in on some of these funds. But we're only able to do that for organizations who have hit a certain stride because they have the foundation in place and they have that capacity to manage the grants that they're actually looking for. So it went from not really knowing what I'm doing and just hourly, this all types of crazy to now we have a set of offers that align with organizations at different stages of their life cycle. So that took time, a little bit of practice and bump in my head. Surprised I don't have any scars. But I will say it's important because now, I'm able to see a difference in my energy level. Because I'm not trying to be all things to all people, although I can show up in different ways. Sometimes the grant writing coach has to show up on social media and you get what you need from social media or an online course, or I may need to show up in a lead consultant and strategic advisor, or I may just need to do the work for you, which is in our done-for-you services. But I know based on the clients needs where I need to show up. And that's half the battle is awareness.

00:35:25 Cindy: And it also goes back to that idea of service, of meeting clients where they are. I want to ask you, how long have you been running the group program and what have you learned in doing that? I also want to ask you sort of like what your distribution is, I would say, of revenue. So how much of your business is in each bucket?

00:35:49 Sheleia: Okay, so I've been doing the group coaching thing, y'all, this will be year three. Yeah, year three. It started out as one on one coaching from someone from Clubhouse. So we're grateful for Clubhouse. Okay. Year two, I wanted to do it bigger, and I also wanted to make it more organized. I think that's the Enneagram one in me. So where the first time I was like, “Oh, we're coming up with topics every week.” We knew what the end goal was. So I was like, “I know how to get there. But it was not documented. It wasn't really scalable.” So the second round, I've definitely made it, just clean and easily accessible. So I utilize, for example, Wix. They have a learning platform that you can upload videos, the modules, the workbooks, all of that versus me having to show up and do all of this via Zoom and try to do it in one hour. And this year, what we're going to do is still utilize the same platform, but we're amping it up. So three years it has evolved. The first time around, again, it was one on one. The second time, I actually had three students. And I'm glad that we increased the cap because what that taught me was how to manage a room of learners with different learning styles. With the one on one client, we knew where they were, so we could adapt the content based on where they were. But you can't adapt the content when you have three different folks. You actually have to have one standard approach. But how you help them reach certain goals, it's unique and different.

00:37:22 Sheleia: So I had office hours. I had all these different spaces where if they couldn't show up or really couldn't grasp it within that one hour, we had 30 minutes off, maybe on our off weeks, where they could come in and learn. And this year, I want to try some things different where there's more standard to the offer. So last time I just made, I'm not going to say I made it up, it was more of a bonus because I'm like, “Oh, I want you all to get this.” We got this. So it was as we could or PRN, basically. But this year, I want to make office hours more of a standard practice, especially as we lead into the fall cohort.

00:37:55 Sheleia: Revenue diversification. That is a really interesting question because I know folks want to say, “Oh, all of our revenue comes from group coaching.” That is not the case for SMP, okay? Because we are grant writers. I feel, and this is just my opinion, you all inbox me later. If you are a grant professional, to really have a profitable business, there has to be some type of done-for-you service component. Now, that being said, that doesn't mean Sheleia has to do it. I could have subcontractors where they do all of the writing work. I just show up, do the coaching and the speaking and webinars. But at the end of the day, SMP still has a healthy revenue model because of, I guess, the nature of the work that we do. Coaching is a new concept. So folks may need coaching in education, but they see it as a secondary component to you actually doing the work for them. So there's still a lot of work, I think, in our space where people think that coaching is a solution versus like, you coming in and doing it for them. But while that is true, I don't want my business to suffer. So I offer all of the things, done-for-you, done-with-you, and do-it-yourself so that I can have some just diverse ways to make money in the business.

00:39:15 Sheleia: And it works. Most of our dollars come from done-for-you. But it's not just me. I actually have a small team of two to three other folks. I say two to three because depending on what my niece wants to do, that she may not be able to help us with socials and admin and stuff like that. Love her though, but it's not all on me anymore. So if you want to have a diverse profit model, you have to be able to do the things or you have to be okay with the fact that you may offer services that you're not necessarily going to deliver yourself and be able to trust your team of subcontractors or for folks in the big leagues, your employees to do for you, especially in our space.

00:40:00 Jess: I love that and I think that it's really wise because I see a lot of nonprofit coaches and consultants really trying to get away from the one on one service or the done-for-you work. But at the end of the day, I see it, too. Sometimes people just need an extra set of hands. They do not want to learn how to do the work, or they might just [crosstalk].

00:40:20 Sheleia: And they will tell you.

00:40:00 Jess: Yeah. And that’s okay. And you can charge a premium. That was a really helpful breakdown of what your staffing structure looks like. And I'm also imagining that people listening are like, “Oh, I can bring on a subcontractor. I can do that.” If you're comfortable, would you give us some insight into how you pay those people? Do they get an hourly wage? Do they get a cut of the contract? What's the revenue split so that you, who are doing the majority of the business development and marketing and probably overseeing the projects to a degree, but not writing every single word? What does that breakdown look like?

00:41:01 Sheleia Yeah. So for me, I always start potential independent contracting relationships with what's your fee, what's your skill set and what's your fee. Now, does that mean I always have the budget? No, but that means that one, I'm really big on respecting other folks in the service field and not coming to the table like, “This is how much I have. Can you fit it?” It's no, how much do you charge? And then I'm able to have enough information to see if, “Am I your ideal customer, basically?” I approach it more of like, “You have a service. I have a need. I'm more of the customer.” And while it's a little bit different because we call it the SMP way. So we have SOPs and the way that I prefer things to be done because we know how our clients work and we work with them long enough to know what works and what doesn't work. So instead of saying, like, “Hey, what's the process and procedure for this?” I'm like, “Here's the SMP way. I'm still compensating you for your skill set as you walk through our processes.”

00:42:10 Sheleia: So for me, it's really just networking. How much do you charge for this? What's your capacity? We actually just recently implemented what we call a partnership request. So if there's an RFP or a shift in clients where they want more work, then we have the capacity to currently fill. I'm sending out a partnership request like, “Hey, you all, here's the scope.” It's actually the exact scope that we send to the client, so they can have full knowledge and just transparency about what the work is going to look like. Here's our budget to hire support. And actually, the step before that, as I started building on my network, I asked folks like, “What do you think your capacity is going to look like in the next three to six months? What's your fee and what are you interested in?” I don't believe in subcontracting folks for work that they are not interested in just for the sake of, that they do a good job. So it's more learning them.

00:43:03 Sheleia: And when that partnership request comes out, we say, “Hey, still interested? Okay, send me your bio headshot.” We'll send the proposal to the client. In our experience, it's somewhere around like 14 to 30 days before they make a solid decision. So we let them know that and just, transparent about the entire process. If we get it, great. We love that. We're kicking off. Here's how we communicate. Here's our project management, going through all of the official onboarding and learning of one another. And then what I like to do, even if we don't get a scope, is to give them some insights on why the client chose not to work with us. Because that is invaluable as a consultant, not only just for us at SMP, but maybe there is something that you can learn from this experience as well, so that when you submit proposals, this is a learning for you individually. Or if you want to collaboratively work with us again, we'll be mindful to make certain adjustments. So for us, it's more learning, again, just really trying to align with consultant preferences. And if we can't afford it, we just can't afford it. I'm not your ideal client at this time, but we will be. So yeah, that's how we work it out.

00:44:21 Cindy: Oh, my goodness. We are running out of time. No. Okay. Jess and I have agreed that we're going to go into our confessions question, which we ask everyone. But I also want to ask you about getting feedback from clients that you don't win because that is something we've never talked about, I actually don't think about a lot. Okay. We might run out of time for--

00:44:51 Jess: Okay, rapid fire answer, Sheleia. Rapid fire answer. And then--

00:44:55 Sheleia: I know I can be long winded. I'm sorry. I just get so excited.

00:44:57 Cindy: No, it’s so good. There's so many great things. So really quickly, when you ask for feedback on why you didn't get a client, what do you ask?

00:45:08 Sheleia: So when we don't get our yes, depending on our relationship with the contact, some folks we know better than others. Let's say then.

00:45:19 Cindy: Okay.

00:45:21 Sheleia: I will say if they're open to giving it and actually respond because some folks are just like, “No, you don't [inform them] until six months later.” Right?

00:45:29 Cindy: Yeah.

00:45:30 Sheleia: But for the folks that we know that are in our network, the number one feedback that we would get is that it was a really big job and a really small team. And while we know as experts, as professionals, that we can do this, I think there is this space for clients where they feel more comfortable, with your current capacity, if they see more people. So at some place [crosstalk]

00:45:56 Cindy: Yeah.

00:45:57 Sheleia: I'm sure you all know of really big firms where you are, where it's five or six people on one project, 50 people for the entire firm. For us, you'll at minimum get two. At most, you'll get three. And depending on what their cadence for grant submissions is going to look like or how many people or how much of our time that they're actually requesting, they may feel that they want to pursue other options because it may be too overwhelming for us. Or they know that they're not our only client. Every client is treated like they're our only client, but their cognitive awareness that they have other work.

00:46:35 Cindy: It’s their own mindset. Yeah.

00:46:37 Sheleia: They don't want us to drop the ball. So we know that we can do the work or we wouldn't have submitted the RFP. But we totally respect the fact that they may want a bigger team because they have more needs. And like I said, I don't get discouraged. We'll get there one day, but right now, I don't want to stress myself out.

00:46:51 Cindy: No.

00:46:52 Sheleia: I’ve had five folks, that for the sake of one RFP, yeah.

00:46:56 Cindy: Your clients are going to find you.

00:46:58 Sheleia: Yes.

00:46:59 Cindy: Okay. Our favorite question, you know this podcast is called Confessions. Confess to us. What's one thing that you want to improve in your business or about how you do business?

00:47:14 Sheleia: Yeah, I want to stop overthinking. Okay. I'm sure you all are like, “Oh, she has so much wisdom.” I have bumped my head a lot and maybe I'll even say this caused myself some misery by overthinking the business. Am I doing this right? Am I on the right platforms? Am I offering the right services? Do I show up in this space enough? It's just so many things that, as business owners, as agency owners in particular, that all of the weight falls on us. And sometimes I feel like I'm solely responsible for finding out the answers, forgetting the fact that I got a network, forgetting the fact that I have a mentoring circle and people that really love me, that I don't have to figure it all out up here. So I definitely want to stop overthinking everything. What's the song, Que Sera, Sera Whatever Will Be Will Be, and it's going to work out fine. And being more confident in my decisions because every decision that I've made has gotten me here. And I tell myself all the time, like, “You're not doing bad at all.” So just allow the process to be the process. Take it easy on yourself and, yeah, don't overthink it. Just do what you do best. As long as you do good and you have pure intentions, like the revenue, the clients, the good things, the opportunities will find you. I don't have to stress out on trying to find it.

00:48:37 Jess: So good. Sheleia, thank you for your time. Thank you for your transparency and your generosity. For anyone, grant consultant or not, that just wants to network and be in touch with you, what is the best way for folks to find you?

00:48:54 Sheleia: Yes. So this will be down in the show notes, smpnpc.com/socials. There, you'll find all of the platforms that I'm on. Choose your favorite and I will definitely reach out. DM me. I'm an open book. So if there's something that you want to chit chat about, that we talked about today, please let me know. If you just need an encouraging word, I'm here for that too. And send me some wisdom, you all, because this overthinking thing, it's been getting to me. So I would love just for those who have walked this journey and still have their sanity to send me some good words, too. And make sure you all bless Jess and Cindy for having this platform for all of us to come and learn and feel like I feel seen just by sitting here and talking with you all. So I'm grateful and thank you for trusting me to speak with your community.

00:49:46 Cindy: Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much.

00:49:47 Sheleia: I’m honored. Thank you.

00:49:49 Cindy: And truly is.

00:49:50 Sheleia: You're welcome.

00:49:51 Cindy: Thank you so much. Of course, to all of our listeners. I think having these conversations is a place where we all can feel seen, so I'm so glad it's working. See you everyone next week.

00:50:06 Jess: See you all.

00:50:09 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.

00:50:21 Jess: Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and us so we can repost you.

00:50:29 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.

00:50:33 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

00:50:40 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

00:50:46 Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember we’re an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

00:50:54 Cindy: See you next time.