"Positive does not mean 'good vibes only.' Positive, because in fact, 'good vibes only' is actually pretty negative. For me, positive is caring for ourselves and others, and that actually soothes and alleviates distress. And what is more positive than that?" - Shulamit Ber Levtov

A Journey of Self-Compassion in Entrepreneurship with Shulamit Ber Levtov

Ever felt like you're stuck in a loop of always trying to stay positive, scared of missing out, and endlessly comparing yourself to others in the nonprofit consulting world? This constant pressure can really mess with your head, leaving you anxious and your mental health taking a hit. It's a tough cycle that can make your work life feel like you're running on empty. This is why understanding the mental and emotional battles that come with entrepreneurship is super important for nonprofit consultants and coaches looking to grow their businesses without burning out.

Join us on this episode where we get real with Shulamit Ber Levtov, a therapist who's a pro at helping entrepreneurs navigate these choppy waters. We're diving into the nitty-gritty of mental health for entrepreneurs, tackling the big challenges head-on, and sharing ways to come out on top with a healthier mindset and a business that's not just surviving, but thriving. Get ready for some eye-opening conversations and tips that could change the game for you.

Key Highlights:

• The Myth of Perpetual Positivity: Breaking the chains of toxic positivity isn’t just liberating, it’s necessary. As Shulamit discussed, the real power lies in acknowledging the full spectrum of our emotions. This is especially true in the world of entrepreneurship, where terms like VUCA are the daily alphabet soup we slurp up. Remember, admitting that navigating uncertainty is tough doesn’t make you weak—it makes you real, and equipped to deal with the complexity of running a business.

• A Revolution Against Comparison: Cindy pointed out the snare of FOMO and the constant comparison, a plight many of us face. Shulamit urges us to manage these feelings by first understanding the biological roots of comparison and then actively practicing techniques that anchor us into our uniqueness. You are more than your bank balance or social media likes; you're a powerhouse who brings irreplaceable value to the table.

• Building A Supportive Community: Echoing Shulamit, Jess highlighted the transformation that comes from consistent, supportive practice. It's like building muscle – the more you work it, the stronger it gets. And let’s not forget the magic of having a tribe. As we preach, standing shoulder to shoulder with people who get it can multiply your growth personally and professionally.

• Healing Financial Trauma: Talking about money can feel icky—but it's a necessary discomfort. Often, we associate shame and self-worth with our financial situation, thanks to our capitalist culture. But through vulnerable conversation and community, we can heal the wounds that hold us back from fully embracing our value.

For entrepreneurs, embracing vulnerability and self compassion particularly around financial anxiety and money trauma is crucial for mental well being and business success. It is important to acknowledge emotional challenges, seek community support and reframe negative beliefs to navigate the entrepreneurial journey with resilience and a more holistic sense of positivity.

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com

Connect with Shulamit Ber Levtov: 

Shulamit Ber Levtov (Website): https://www.shula.ca/ 

Shulamit Ber Levtov (Linkedin): linkedin.com/in/shulamitberlevtov

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com

Fractional Fundraising Network https://www.fractionalfundraising.co/

LinkedIn:  https://ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-campbell-outintheboons/ 

Transcript:

00:00:00 Cindy: Hey everyone, it's Cindy. And before we get into today's episode, I wanted to come and share with you something. Jess doesn't even know I'm doing this, but she is hosting a conference for consultants this February in California called Make It Happen Live. And I'm so excited to be there. I can't wait to meet everyone who's gonna go. And so I thought, you know what? Jess is so busy with work these days. I would take this opportunity to let you know about it. February 28th and 29th, although, come early on February 27th, there's some fun stuff happening too.

00:00:40 Cindy: So if you haven't already signed up to Make It Happen, join us. It is gonna be so much fun and transformative for your business. Seriously, every time I get together with other consultants, I feel like things just get elevated to a whole new level. So the link is in the show notes and I hope to see you there.

00:00:59 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

00:01:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros, turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.

00:01:11 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

00:01:19 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six-figure mark by pulling back the curtain.

00:01:30 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

00:01:51 Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

00:02:11 Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a non-profit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

00:02:27 Jess: You ready? Let's go!

00:02:31 Cindy: Hey, Jess!

00:02:32 Jess: Hi! Hi, hi!

00:02:34 Cindy: Hi, hi! We are recording this. It's January of 2024. I feel like people are kind of, like having a hard year already. Like–

00:02:45 Jess: Oh, no, really?

00:02:46 Cindy: I feel like the world is just, you know, a little hurt, a little heavy and hurting a little bit. And people have been through some really rough years and then more rough years.

00:02:59 Jess: Yes.

00:02:59 Cindy: And as entrepreneurs–

00:03:00 Jess: With no break.

00:03:01 Cindy: With no break and no recovery. And it's hard. And, you know, we're super positive people. And we always like to focus on, like all the bright, but that means we have to care for our mental health. And–

00:03:15 Jess: Absolutely.

00:03:17 Cindy: That's what we're talking about today because the world isn't always sunshine and roses as much as I'd like it to be. And as entrepreneurs and business owners, there's a different sort of weightiness to our work than if you're in-house. So today we are really excited to welcome Shulamit Ber Levtov to the podcast. She's known as The Entrepreneurs' Therapist. And I think this conversation is very timely. Shula, welcome to the podcast.

00:03:51 Shulamit: Hey, Cindy. Hey, Jess, I'm so happy to be here. Little envious of Jess and her geographical location.

00:04:01 Cindy: I know.

00:04:04 Jess: Seriously, I don't know how you all do it all winter long.

00:04:07 Shulamit: We're gonna have freezing rain. Like it's gonna be a big disaster now.

00:04:12 Cindy: Yeah, yeah. No, it's, and actually I guess, apropos of the topic, like the winter can be really hard where we live, right? Like seasonal, what is it called, sad seasonal.

00:04:27 Shulamit: Effective disorder.

00:04:28 Cindy: Effective disorder.

00:04:29 Shulamit: Yeah.

00:04:30 Cindy: And just the lack, you know, I have my, like little vitamin D pills. So yeah, it's, but hopefully we can get a little more sunshine like our friends in SoCal. So yeah.

00:04:45 Jess: It makes you feel better. It's gray and gloomy today. And we had, like torrential downpours a couple days back.

00:04:52 Cindy: Doesn't make me feel that much better.

00:04:56 Shulamit: So could I just jump right in and respond to something that you said in the intro?

00:05:00 Cindy: Please, yes.

00:05:01 Shulamit: You said, you know, normally we like to keep it positive around here. And I would like to challenge the idea that caring for mental health or talking about difficult emotions is negative.

00:05:11 Cindy: Absolutely. And I think it's like integral to the positive, but tell us what you mean. Tell me more about that.

00:05:20 Shulamit: Sure. Well, for me, positive does not mean good vibes only. Positive because in fact, good vibes only is, actually pretty negative for those who are not seeing on video. I'm taking my hands and pressing them forward and pushing away from me and turning my head away, right? That toxic positivity, good vibes only is a rejection. It's a real pushing away of the pain and difficulty that we can face just in the course of our human lives, let alone in the course of being self-employed, right?

00:05:52 Shulamit: Whereas when we can turn toward those painful and difficult emotions and say, oh, hi, I see that you're having a hard time. And I'm placing my hand on my heart space, placing my palm down, and I'm saying, hi, I can see this is really tough for you. For me, that's positive, because that positive is caring for ourselves and others. And that actually soothes and alleviates distress. And what is more positive than that?

00:06:23 Cindy: Mm, absolutely. Jess and I both have young kids, and I think this is one of the things we focus on a lot in parenting too is really like, how do you see people for who they are and what they're going through and make them feel safe? And that, as you said, is very positive and be safe even when things feel heavy or dark or sad or scary. So thank you for reframing that for us. I'd love to hear a little bit about your work with entrepreneurs. Like we talk about, these are human things that we all need, right? That sense of safety, of feeling our feelings, of having the tools to work through and support our mental health. How is it different for entrepreneurs?

00:07:14 Shulamit: I would say it is more intense and more frequent. I don't know if you're familiar with the term VUCA, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. It's a leadership term from like 1987, I think it was coined. And if that doesn't just define in four simple letters, the nature of entrepreneurship, the entrepreneurial roller coaster, where one day you're up and the next day you're down and you're gonna blow up your business or burn it down because what am I even doing this for? And sure, things are volatile, complex, uncertain, and unclear for humans as humans, because that's life really. But the degree and intensity and frequency that we experience these things as entrepreneurs is so much greater than folks who don't work for themselves. And that to me is the big difference.

00:08:09 Cindy: 100%. And one of the things, I mean, I love that VUCA, I'm totally stealing that. One of the things I also see a lot in my work with other consultants is the like FOMO and you kind of mentioned, you did mention like toxic positivity, which I think is amplified through things like social media, where people are constantly as entrepreneurs, as business owners comparing ourselves to other business owners that we see that we think are really successful. And we see that shiny, polished version of themselves, which is one of the reasons why we have this podcast. But I'd love to hear from you what your, like what, how does that sort of manifest or show up for entrepreneurs when they're feeling like they just don't measure up or they're experiencing the VUCA?

00:09:05 Shulamit: Well, I'm gonna take the theme of comparison that you mentioned. It's a biological imperative to figure out where we fit and where we don't fit, right? So we compare ourselves to others in order, and it's an automatic thing because it's about survival. We have to make sure, and it's very, like clearly, you know, I'm not gonna die if I don't measure up today, if I don't fit in with the group today, if I'm not cool today. Of course, it feels terrible when you're not cool, but that's just, you know, you have to metabolize that. That's part of being human, but we're not gonna die from it.

00:09:43 Shulamit: But there are parts of us that remember the survival situations and so are automatically looking for, am I okay? Am I safe? Do I fit? And that comparison process is part of that. And quite naturally, we can feel anxious about that. We can experience that as a threat to our nervous system, a survival threat. So our nervous system will respond in that way. And so what I would recommend is, first of all, to say, just like I recommended at the very beginning. Oh, hello. I see what's happening here, right?

00:10:21 Shulamit: Like an acknowledgement of what's actually going on. I'm having FOMO, I'm comparing myself to what's going on, or even just, wait a minute, I'm feeling yucky. Like I'm just all of a sudden noticing, like I'm feeling yucky. And then it's to take a breath like I just did. And my favorite comforting gesture for myself, you'll see me making it again, is placing my hands against my chest, just gently there on my heart space.

00:10:45 Shulamit: And then to say, well, no wonder, especially in the context of comparison and survival, when you're a business owner and self-employed, right? No wonder I'm feeling anxious or no wonder I'm feeling shame. No wonder I'm feeling whatever it is I'm feeling. This is about survival. And who would not feel anxious about their own survival? Right? There's nothing wrong with me for feeling anxious about my survival. It's okay to feel this way.

00:11:16 Jess: Absolutely. Yeah, you know, big [breath], I'm sitting here thinking like, why the hell does anyone want to be an entrepreneur? I'm, like with all of this. And then I remember that for those of us that are, it's like, we can't help it. It's happening whether we really want to or not. Two, I mean, I have two directions I want to go in, but one of the things I would really love your expertise on or advice on how to navigate is I see a lot of nonprofit consultants who were, you know, just amazing fundraisers or had no problem asking for business or donations, calling in help. And there's something about when it's selling yourself, that's way harder.

00:12:12 Shulamit: Sure.

00:12:13 Jess: I'm raising my hand high on this one. And I'm wondering if you have, like a reframe or a practice or something for us to remember that when we are selling ourselves, selling our services, that is, it is an act of service. Because, you know, that's what it is, but I just find it so much more difficult for entrepreneurs to sell on behalf of themselves versus like an organization.

00:12:42 Shulamit: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm with you. I think that it really is an act of service and money brings up all kinds of stuff for us, especially our money. And money in this culture is so closely tied to worth and safety. And so we also get our beliefs about ourselves and our worth and ourselves and our money and ourselves and our safety from our life experiences in particular from our life growing up experiences, you know, from zero to like 20ish or so. And those things come in and play a role when we are addressing money issues, right? This is what we call the trauma of money. This is a program that's available. I'm a certified facilitator.

00:13:30 Shulamit: And in the trauma of money, we learn about how education isn't enough. You can go to all the sales... Well, they don't teach us this specific application of education isn't enough. But you can't go to a sales program and learn all the sales techniques and have that be enough because you have your own inner reservations around money and money behaviors. There's also another issue around sales because it's a visibility thing. And to say to own your space and take your space and be visible.

00:14:02 Shulamit: Coming back to why so many people come into entrepreneurship, what I have noticed is many folks come to entrepreneurship as a response to other conditions in their lives. Like they have, they experience so-called microaggressions in the workplace and want to create their own healthy workplace for themselves. There are other aspects toxic, toxicity in the workplace or the nine to five doesn't work for them because they're neuro divergent or they have accessibility needs that aren't met in traditional workplaces, right? Or we're trauma survivors. That's my story. And I, no one is going to be the boss of me.

00:14:39 Shulamit: But at the same time, if I'm not looking at the impact of these things on my sense of self, then to be able to be visible because the equation is in those circumstances, visibility resulted in harm, then I'm not going to put my hand up for harm under any circumstances, even when it means not selling for my business. This is a very deep and tender aspect of our experience as entrepreneurs and our experience with selling and with money that needs care first. I'd love to give you a tip or a trick, but really I'm hoping that the insight, the idea that, oh, wait a minute, I came by these fears quite reasonably.

00:15:30 Shulamit: They make sense in the context, my context, your context, and that's okay. Right, there's nothing wrong with me. These are quite reasonable reactions to what I've been through. And how can I care for these? And so this would be the next step is to investigate ways of caring for those things so that you then can come kind of firmly into the fullness of yourself and unashamedly and unabashedly come into the space and say, I'm here, this is what I have to offer. And I would love to work with you to bring my skills, to support what you're doing. And here's how I do that, right? And to come from that place where you're in a good relationship with your own self and that shows on the outside. And it's a process too, right?

00:16:21 Cindy: So good. And so true. I think the trauma of money is something I'd love to talk a little bit more about because I think it really does come up for people. Let's talk a little bit more about the trauma of money. We talk about it, as in relation to sales.

00:16:38 Shulamit: Yeah.

00:16:39 Cindy: You mentioned shame, which I also think is something that is very much tied to money, especially with people in the nonprofit sector.

00:16:48 Shulamit: Yes, yes.

00:16:48 Cindy: I think a lot of people feel ashamed to have money when they do have more of it than others. So tell us a little bit, like, let's dive into that a little bit more, because it is so prominent. What are the stories that you… Are there common stories that you see people tell themselves? I know a lot of it is very personal based on our upbringing, but I also know that there's patterns. So what do you see? How does this show up for us and entrepreneurs beyond sales?

00:17:20 Shulamit: It's a big, it's such a big thing. Almost everybody experiences shame around money, but we come into, very direct relationship with money when we run our own businesses. Or rather I should say the stakes are much higher because we don't necessarily come into, very direct relationship with money. In many cases, the relationship with our money in our business is very much the same as the relationship with money in the rest of our lives. But under capitalism, money, I think I said this before, but I'm going to say it again just to be sure, money is associated with worth and safety.

00:17:58 Shulamit: And so there are many, many messages about money that don't fit or that are shamy or blamey. And we take those in, they have an impact on us. And then we tell ourselves, we internalize those values or that criticism, and we tell ourselves that there's something wrong with us because whatever with money. So for example, just to tell my own story, I prefer not to tell client stories because of confidentiality. I prefer to keep it confidential in that way, but I'll tell you my story because it's very representative story.

00:18:31 Shulamit: I have dyscalculia, which is like dyslexia, but with numbers. It's a learning disability that goes much more than just numbers, but that's an easy way for people to understand it. And so I have quite literal math trauma from school being screamed at, being shamed and embarrassed at school and screamed at and shamed at home because I could not understand math. And my short-term memory doesn't work either.

00:19:03 Shulamit: So I can literally, something can go out of my memory when I look down here at the page and look up here to enter it in the spreadsheet, it's gone. I have to look like, sometimes three or four times because my working memory doesn't work. That's an aspect of dyscalculia. And so for all my life, I thought I was bad with numbers, bad with math and bad with money. And I was so ashamed. I carried so much shame. And it makes it really hard to say, and of course I was shamed even for needing help. And it becomes very hard because shame means you as a human, there is something wrong with you and it's a very vulnerable thing.

00:19:46 Shulamit: And so I remember though when I learned that I had dyscalculia, and I looked at the story that I got from my family where we were given allowances as kids and we were supposed to balance a checkbook. This is like back in the day when there was no electronic anything. And I could never make the math work and my brothers could. And my mother ran the household budget and she did fine with numbers. Everybody was fine, but me. And so I had internalized the story that I'm bad with money. But when I learned that I had dyscalculia, I was like, oh. I have a learning disability. Well, that's the language of the day. I'm neurodiverse. My brain works differently.

00:20:29 Shulamit: And then when I look back at my history with money, and I've lived as a single mom, I've lived in poverty, I lived in a shelter, and how I managed even though I didn't have much, and I realized I'm not bad with money at all. Actually, I did really well with the money that I had. And the fact that I didn't have money was a function of the systems in which I was living. And in the trauma of money, we talk about decreased shame, increased discernment. And the increased discernment is, the reason I didn't have money is because of the systems, not because of my capability, not because of my competence, certainly not because of my education. I was university educated.

00:21:12 Shulamit: And folks who, are folks of color, who don't speak English as their first language, who have other encounter, other barriers, those are systemic issues that inhibit their, that are literally preventing them from accomplishing what folks of privilege can and do right to identify, hey, it isn't something wrong with me. It's out there. That's liberating. Right? And so that's my liberation story. And when we, around money and around numbers and shame and empowerment. And so the work that I do with clients is often like that, unpacking this, what's your money story? What's your experience of shame? Whose shame is this? And where did this all come from? So that was, I kind of got carried away a little bit, but I'm wondering how that responds to what it was that you asked.

00:22:08 Cindy: Mm-hmm. No, that's absolutely on nose, I think, in terms of like, how this is showing up for us, as well as taking some of the blame out of, I think that's really important around what you talked about is like, not blaming ourselves for things that are systemic, or that have been imposed on us that we don't have necessarily control over which leads me to kind of, the next question, which is like, how do we get control, right? How do we start to change these narratives?

00:22:46 Cindy: You talked about your journey in… even just having a diagnosis and having an explanation, but I know it's not like an overnight aha moment of like, even if you know why, that doesn't leave your body. It doesn't leave your mind. And so talk to us a little bit about the journey that your clients go through when either working with you or doing their own work, because I think we also as entrepreneurs, we kind of look for like, oh, if I just know the answer, it changes. And it doesn't just go away once you understand. So talk to us a little bit about that.

00:23:28 Shulamit: Yeah, so it is a process, right? What I would say is that your relationship to these things changes. So if we come back to the very beginning of the podcast, when I said, you know, when we can say hello to something, rather than pushing it away, we say hello to it, that's a change in, relationship. And when we're not pushing it away, it's less heavy, right? We can come into relationship with it and it sits beside us instead of in front of us or on our shoulders. And it's a similar process, the journey of healing from money trauma, money-related trauma is this process of coming into a different relationship with these things that are affecting us.

00:24:13 Shulamit: And coming into a different relationship with ourselves, most of all, of developing this kind, warm, compassionate relationship with yourself, which is, yes, easier said than done. And at the same time, I'm living proof that it's possible because in my trauma recovery journey, I was terribly self-critical. But with practice over the years, now, actually, my relationship to myself is transformed. It's a process of practice. All the literature shows that having a healing relationship is the way in which this transformed relationship with yourself can occur.

00:24:54 Shulamit: And then you take restorative or reparative action. Once you've got the thinking down, and you're beginning to develop this other relationship with yourself, then you take a new step or you take an old step in a new way. So for example, for me, when I first started handling the books in my business, now I have a bookkeeper who actually does all the reconciliation because my brain literally cannot do that kind of thing without making errors. And that's a problem. So the first person I hired in my business was a bookkeeper, but I, also, do have to do math and pay bills and pay contractors and all those kinds of things.

00:25:33 Shulamit: And I remember, and there was a time when I had associates as well. So I had to reconcile their invoices with the money that came in and how much they were gonna get paid and all that stuff. And I can even feel the knot in my stomach now as I talk about it. And I set aside like an eight hour day, I started at seven o'clock in the morning and I shook, I felt nauseous, my palms were sweaty, and I kind of grit my teeth and got through the day. And it was okay, but it was extraordinarily stressful for me. And, but I did it and I kept doing it.

00:26:07 Shulamit: And eventually when I learned I had dyscalculia and that there was nothing wrong with me, I would remind myself on a regular basis. In the course of that day, I would stop and breathe and say, this is hard, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It's okay. It has always worked out in the past. It will work out today. You're okay. Like this kind of, instead of saying, you dummy, what's the matter with you? Get your shit together. This is simple math. Anybody could do that, right? It's a different relationship with myself.

00:26:39 Shulamit: And so now after five, six years of taking the same step, but in a different way, it takes only about a half a day. And I have to say my nervous system does not get activated anymore. And in fact, I can feel happy sometimes, which is like when I think back to the grade 10 math, me who never made it through that class, never passed grade 10 math, who today, when I'm looking at the money in my business and doing my books and paying my bills and myself at the end of the month, that I can actually feel pleasure and joy and celebration, instead of literal fear, gut wrenching fear, like that is a miracle.

00:27:27 Shulamit: But I'm not changing what I'm doing. I'm changing how I'm doing it. And I changed my relationship to it. And that's the process. We get the thinking down and then we practice, practice, practice, practice.

00:27:40 Jess: Yeah, so healing. That's what I was thinking when you were talking about your liberation story and like, it's an ongoing process of reminding yourself about this healing. And as we were talking about, kind of money trauma, another thing that kind of came up for me is like fear trauma, like, and how you were saying, it all relates to wanting to be secure and safe. And I was just watching this video about a gal who in 2023 committed to her objective or her goal was to get rejected as many times as possible.

00:28:20 Shulamit: I love that.

00:28:22 Jess: And it literally changed her life in one year. She applied for jobs she wasn't qualified for. She asked for money. She didn't think she would be given raises and she connected with people and built a system. Like it was transformational. And two of the things you said that I'd love for you to just elaborate on or talk us through or coach us through, you talked about the process of practice, which reminded me of this thing I saw, right? Because she just kept doing it and doing it.

00:28:55 Jess: And I'm sure it gets easier and easier the more you do. Like that repetition takes the sting out of things a bit, but then coupled with restorative action. And I'm wondering how you apply those two things around fear because I know a ton of folks listening are holding themselves back out of fear of rejection, which is really value. Like being rejected fucking sucks, no one wants it. Like, oh my gosh, but how amazing to somehow be able to practice through it restoratively. I think that that word is really important. Like, how would you advise someone who's, you know, so tense with fear, they're not letting themselves break through?

00:29:43 Shulamit: Sure. So I do want to refine a little bit around the process of practice first, and then I'll talk about the fear. Please remind me about the fear part. Because gritting your teeth and white knuckling through it, you aren't going to actually get, transform your relationship with it. It's the same way you've always done it. And in fact, you're actually reinforcing that this is a situation of danger and fear, like on a nervous system and physical level, right? So what was different for me, and what I'm imagining is different for her is that she went into the action as a practice where she said, I'm doing this for a purpose, which is to discover that I can live through it, that I can be okay.

00:30:33 Shulamit: And so once you've done the, like in the process of doing the action, as I described, I paused and reminded myself like this is okay, I'm okay, I'm safe and okay, this is hard, it's all right that it's right pausing and then dipping back in, pausing and dipping back in. But then at the end of that practice, that particular round of practicing to pause and say, look, I did it and I survived. Because we have a negativity bias, the human brain has a bias in favor of retaining negative data. This is a survival imperative. The bunny, you know, doesn't need to know where the flowers are because flowers are not a life and death issue.

00:31:12 Shulamit: Bear poop is the life and death issue because where the bear is, where the poop is, the bear is and you're going to get eaten. So you need to remember that. But as humans, we need to train our brains to see the whole picture. We do need to see where the bear poop is so that we can protect ourselves and do what's necessary to stay safe either in our personal lives or in our businesses, right? We have to be able to identify the threats and address them. But we also need juice for that. We need to be resourced. And so retaining, training our minds to see the rest of the story, which is, yes, it was hard. Yes, it was activating. And I survived. I'm okay. I did it, right? That helps then bring in the whole, the holistic picture. So that's a really important aspect of practice that matters.

00:31:59 Shulamit: The other thing is, I don't know about her, but I didn't do it alone. So I had a supportive professional with whom I met on a regular basis, but I also had folks on Voxer who were also doing money work with me. And we were money work besties, money work biz besties. And so we had a shame free zone where we would tell each other the things, the unspeakable things that wouldn't be spoken anywhere. We spoke to one another in our process of getting into the restorative action phase of work and that makes all the difference.

00:32:34 Shulamit: So it's not something we do by ourselves alone in a box and that I think is really, really important in an individualistic society to really challenge the narrative that we can do it by ourselves. I did not do that on my own and I'm guessing she didn't either.

00:32:49 Jess: I mean, I think entrepreneurship is that, right? Like entrepreneurship is so difficult to do on your own. And that's why I know Cindy and I specifically are, I mean, like you can't stop me from building a community. It's like, I'm like out there because I just know how critical and transformative it is to my business and having your people that get it and who trust, you trust and they trust you. It's so, so I'm so, that was a real aha moment for me there that you didn't do it on your own because I think things around shame, fear, money, trauma, they can make you go in.

00:33:25 Shulamit: They do.

00:33:26 Jess: And it's like, but actually we're all going through this. And it's so helpful to have a group of people or even a partner.

00:33:36 Shulamit: Yeah, there's a state… saying from the 12 step program, “We're only as sick as our secrets,” right? And it has been my experience over and over and over again.

00:33:43 Jess: Ooh, baby.

00:33:44 Shulamit: And my, right?

00:33:45 Jess: Wow. Yeah.

00:33:46 Shulamit: We're only as sick as our secrets. For me in my life, revealing my shame to the caring light has alleviated it for me. And I see this in clients over and over and over again, having somewhere to say the things of which you are most ashamed, where it's received with love and care into, like the warm sunny summer day. Right? Those of us in northern North America know what that's like to come out into the spring and how good that feels. And for the scared and tender inner parts to come out into that warmth is so healing.

00:34:24 Cindy: Leads us so nicely to our Confessions question, because that is also part of the purpose of this podcast is to shed light or bring to light some of the things we don't talk about elsewhere and to create a space that is open and supportive for that.

00:34:48 Jess: Okay, Shula, we are back for another round of our rapid fire questions. You, ready to play?

00:34:53 Shulamit: Yep.

00:34:55 Jess: Okay, let's do it. Tell me, what is the first thing you drink in the morning?

00:35:00 Shulamit: A homemade latte.

00:35:02 Jess: Yum.

00:35:03 Shulamit: Yes, very yum.

00:35:05 Jess: What's your morning routine?

00:35:08 Shulamit: Homemade latte. Well, actually, we do spend… My beloved and I spend a few moments after the alarm goes off, just having a cuddle, like just, you know, saying hello to each other. We live in a house that's heated with wood and it's cold outside the bed in the morning. So we're like snuggling up and, you know, saying hello to each other. Then we get up, he, in the winter time, he will take care of the fire and I make our coffees, our lattes, and then we sit together, no phones, no nothing, in the living room, in our Edith and Archie chairs where we each have our own armchair now, like our own recliner. And we have our coffees together and talk, no phones or anything for about an hour. And then we both go off our separate ways to go on with our days.

00:35:55 Jess: Sounds lovely. Last question, if you were color, what would you be and why?

00:36:00 Shulamit: Oh, I'm so torn. My grandmother's favorite color is purple. And my favorite color was purple for a long time. My mother's favorite color is turquoise. And she and I have a difficult relationship. So I was never very into it, but now I've got a lot of turquoise in my room. And why do I like turquoise now? Because it evokes a sense of spaciousness for me, like the sky and also the sea. I grew up in the Maritimes and I miss the sea. So I think that's part of why turquoise is speaking to me now because I'm wanting that breathing space for myself.

00:36:43 Jess: I love it. It's a beautiful color. So is purple.

00:36:45 Shulamit: Thank you. Yeah.

00:36:47 Jess: Thank you for playing.

00:36:48 Shulamit: Thank you.

00:36:54 Cindy: So you obviously work with entrepreneurs and you are an entrepreneur. So you get to choose how you want to answer this question, but please share with us one of your confessions, something that maybe you don't talk about too often.

00:37:10 Shulamit: So there are a lot of things I talk about that many people don't talk about. Everybody knows that I had a group practice, I had a holistic stress and trauma clinic, and everybody knows that I'm not running that clinic anymore. But what everybody doesn't know is that it was because of my mental health that I made the choice to leave that business.

00:37:30 Shulamit; What I found was, and this is one of the things about business that you just can't predict when you get into it. I'm a people person and a great therapist if I do say so myself. And at the same time, wrangling other humans was not for me. The stress was enormous. And my sense of care for them and my sense of responsibility for the business and making sure that my associates' financial safety was taken care of was big. I mean, it's big for everybody. And for me, it was more than I wanted to handle.

00:38:06 Shulamit: But even more confession-wise, how this came to happen is I knew it was difficult. I knew I was having a hard time and I was calling in all the supports. But my beloved, I don't even remember what he said to me. And I remember saying to him, you're saying this to me now. And I just, that was this flip your lid moment where the real me was up on the ceiling and the actual me was down here ripping a strip off my beloved. How dare you do this to me? Like, I really, I mean, I don't, I think I've only done something like that, like twice in my life. It's just not the kind of...

00:38:42 Shulamit: So I was telling my therapist about this and my therapist is like, hmm, and I was like, it's quite, I mean, I'm very stressed. How could he have done that to me? It's not right. I was like, I didn't call names or shame or blame him or anything like that. I was just, you know, really, and I was justifying to my therapist that it was okay. And he's like, hmm, I think maybe you need to take a look at where you're at with your stress. And like, therapists heal thyself, you know? So I took a real hard look. I was thinking about taking a week off and ultimately that was in July and by September, I had exited the business. I took a month off and then went back into business as a solo practitioner. And that was a mental health move.

00:39:37 Cindy: When you started talking, the thing that came to mind was just because we can do something and we can do it well doesn't mean we should. And that we have to care for ourselves before we care for others. So thank you for sharing that.

00:39:50 Jess: Shula, what was your saying again about the secrets?

00:39:53 Shulamit: We are only as sick as our secrets.

00:39:56 Jess: Because I think another version could be “We are only as sick as our shoulds.

00:40:02 Shulamit: Yeah, that too. Oh yeah, I agree.

00:40:05 Cindy: Yeah.

00:40:05 Shulamit: Yeah.

00:40:05 Cindy: Shula, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. I guarantee everyone needs to reach out to you. So where can our listeners connect with you?

00:40:18 Shulamit: My invitation is to subscribe to my newsletter at Shula.ca/newsletter. We can stay in dialogue, but especially that's where I do all my, right, share all my writing and thinking about mental health and the intersection of mental health and entrepreneurship. And I think that you'll, if you felt reassured or comforted in any way listening to this today, you will also feel reassured and comforted when my newsletter lands in your inbox. So join me, Shula.ca/newsletter.

00:40:49 Cindy: Thank you so much.

00:40:50 Jess: This was a pleasure. Thank you.

00:40:52 Shulamit: Thank you.

00:40:56 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.

00:41:07 Jess: Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.

00:41:15 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.

00:41:20 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

00:41:26 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

00:41:33 Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

00:41:40 Cindy: See you next time.