The Secret to Strategic & Sustainable Pricing with Sonia Daniels

 "I gained a level of confidence that didn't exist before and so I think those three things positioned me to be in a place where people wanted to work with me." - Sonia Daniels

The Secret to Strategic & Sustainable Pricing with Sonia Daniels

On this episode of "Confessions with Jess and Cindy," we're joined by Sonia Daniels, founder and CEO of S. Daniels Consulting, who has successfully grown her consulting business for nonprofit clients over six years. In this candid conversation, Sonia takes us through her unique business journey, starting as a side project and evolving into a full-time passion. We delve into the challenging decisions she's made, her strategies for supporting employees during maternity leave, and how she balances personal passions and business responsibilities. Stick around for Sonia's valuable insights on recognizing team gaps, the importance of open communication, and the role of strategic pricing in the consulting world.

• Key Highlights:

  • Embrace the evolution: Running a consulting business is not a job for the faint-hearted. It’s a road often marked with ups and downs; our guest, Sonia Daniels, can testify to this. Starting her consulting business as a side project, she gradually transitioned into making it her full-time occupation. The desire for autonomy and flexibility were her driving forces. Sonia’s confession shed light on her journey, highlighting the questioning and the reward of starting her business.

  • Employee Support and Management: A central concern of growing a business is managing and supporting your team effectively. Sonia's intent to have a detailed and considerate plan for her employee's maternity leave underlines the importance of nurturing employee well-being for the success of the business.

  • Strategic Pricing: Sonia's approach to pricing–charging market rates, being flexible for clients with limited budgets, and considering salaries and business expenses–provides a practical framework for consultants when setting their prices. It emphasizes the need to balance profitability, fairness, and business sustainability.

  • The Importance of Networking and Client Relationships: Sonia attributes much of her success to referrals and word of mouth, treating clients like friends and family to ensure a positive experience. It underlines the value of building strong, authentic relationships with clients and maintaining an active network.

    Sonia Daniels' journey as a nonprofit consultant turned CEO offers valuable insights into building and scaling a successful consulting business. Her focus on relationships, pricing strategies, work-life balance, and employee support demonstrates the importance of aligning business goals with personal values. By embracing flexibility, autonomy, and a mindset of continuous growth, consultants can create thriving businesses that make a positive impact in the nonprofit sector.
    

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching: https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership: https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/

Transcript:

00:00:00 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

00:00:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.

00:00:11 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and lived to see what sticks.

00:00:21 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six-figure mark by pulling back the curtain.

00:00:30 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

00:00:53 Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

00:01:12 Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

00:01:28 Jess: You ready? Let's go!

00:01:34 Jess: Hi everyone. Hi Cindy.

00:01:12 Cindy: Hi Jess. We're back.

00:01:38 Jess: We're back. It's back, all right. I'm excited, especially because today's guest, the one and only Sonia Daniels of S. Daniels Consulting, better, more commonly known, not better, more commonly known as SDC. I love that, that's so punchy, is here to talk about her whole journey. And as we were talking offline, I was listening to you and I was like, this has been such an evolution because as someone that's been around the internet for a couple of years, you are someone that I've followed. And as the evolution has taken place, I was like, we need to catch up. We need to hear it.

00:02:23 Jess: And I just find it so relatable to like, do this and then that and then this and then that. And I think that this will be a very helpful conversation to our fellow nonprofit consultants who are ebbing and flowing as we speak. So without further ado, Sonia, tell us who you are and how do you get paid?

00:02:44 Sonia: Yes, so as you mentioned, my name is Sonia Daniels. I am the founder and CEO of S. Daniels Consulting. So my firm has been established for almost six years. It will be six years old next week, which is the... Oh, just insane to like, just the thought process of being almost six years old is just absolutely amazing. And so I get paid by the firm, so full time CEO. And so all of my work at this point in the firm is focused on growing the business, establishing just future opportunities and contracts and lucky enough to have a really great team member that works with me, that focuses on the day to day of the work. So just been such a great experience so far.

00:03:38 Cindy: That's awesome. Can you tell us a little bit about the evolution of the business? Again, we were talking offline and I know it's been like for all of us, you know, a little bit here, a little bit there, ebbs and flows. And you made some interesting decisions along the way. So tell us about the evolution over these past six years.

00:04:02 Sonia: Yeah, so back in 2017 is when I established the firm officially. So when I say officially, like paperwork with the state of Louisiana, with the IRS, got all of that stuff taken care of. But prior to that, I would probably say like a year before, I had started dabbling in doing one-off projects for different folks that I knew, whether it was nonprofit-related work or just something adjacent to it. And the fact that people were calling me to say, "'Hey, I have this project. Could you work on it?" And I'm like, 'Sure." And as I started getting more projects, I was like, "I think there's something here." And that led me to wanting to become a consultant, but I didn't know much about would admit to be a consultant or even would admit to run like a consulting firm. But I knew that it was something there. So I went ahead and started the business.

00:05:03 Sonia: One of the other reasons that I wanted to start the business as well is because I just wanted more autonomy in life. So of course, you know, for folks who are consultants to nonprofits, they more than likely have worked at a nonprofit before. And so we know all of the things that come with that. You know, whether it's working like 70 hours a week, but only getting paid for 40 or just not having flexibility or the stress that comes with it. And so for me, I was in a stage in life where I just really wanted more flexibility and autonomy of my own schedule. And so being a consultant has allowed me to do that, especially almost in year six.

00:05:39 Sonia: But the journey has been really interesting. It definitely has not been like a straight line at all. So when I started the firm, I still was, yeah, I worked at a nonprofit. I was also in grad school at the time. I was a full-time PhD student. So even saying that out loud, it's like, I had a lot of different priorities happening at one time and I was like, "Yeah, let me start a business." Who would do such a thing? So yeah, I started the business in 2017, dabbled in it off and on probably up until the pandemic actually. And a lot of it was just around like, not feeling like I didn't know what I was doing or feeling like I didn't have the confidence to do it.

00:06:25 Sonia: And so I would dabble in it here and there, but like really wouldn't commit myself to it until the pandemic happened. And I think because I had so much time on my hand. During the pandemic, I did have a nonprofit job, but because it was and out of school time program, we weren't allowed to work. Like we basically had to do whatever we could from home, but that was it. And so it just freed up my schedule to really focus on like, "Okay, let me really grow my business so I can be in the business full of time."

00:07:00 Sonia: So in the pandemic really started giving more time and energy and effort and being more intentional about the firm. But even still, money wasn't coming in as quickly as I needed it to. And so I had a friend at the time who sent me a message on LinkedIn and she's like, "Hey, I work at this tech for good company. I think it would be a good fit for you. Would you be interested?" I'm like, sure. "Why not?" It's tech. There's a lot of money, you know? And so I jumped into that role. That was last year.

00:07:33 Sonia: And eventually I got to a point this year where like the business was picking up, but then the work of the company was picking up in terms of like the job I had. And I got to a point where I had to make a decision. I just couldn't do both because at that time I was in a position of working my nine to five, but then I would get off at five and then transition into the business from five until whatever time I was done. And I'm like, "This is not sustainable."

00:07:59 Sonia: And so in May, the TechForGood company I was working at, they had some reduction in workforce. And so I was like, "You know what, this is a perfect opportunity for me to just part ways with the company." It wasn't on bad terms, but I knew that there was something greater that I needed to be focusing on. And so literally the week I left Resilia was like the week my inbox just started blowing up with people reaching out to me. And so I've been super busy since May.

00:08:28 Sonia: No complaints at all. This is where I want to be, but it's just a testament of like it was the right time for me to make that decision. And so I've just been full time running the business since May. Things are just so interesting. So that is where I am today, just in the business, just making great things happen.

00:08:50 Cindy: That's amazing. And congratulations.

00:08:51 Sonia: Thank you.

00:08:53 Cindy: I'd love to hear your reflections on what do you think happened that the business started to take off? Because I think your story is common where we're spending time, we're building the business, and sometimes it takes a long time. Sometimes it's like I think things are going to happen quickly, but then business development in our sector, sometimes organizations take months to even give back to you. So do you have a sense of what changed or was it just time? Like what happened so that things were taking off that allowed you to take that opportunity and go full time in the business?

00:09:36 Sonia: That's a great question. So there were a few things I think happened. I'm not certain, I'm just, you know. So what I think happened, one was that the role I had in the full-time job at Resilia, what happened there was that because of the position I was in, so I was like department lead for nonprofit partnerships, which allowed me to be positioned as an expert in that company. And so because of that, I was able to do webinars and really speak to the customers who wanted to use the product. So people started seeing me as a subject matter expert.

00:10:17 Sonia: And that ability to be in front of people and be able to deliver content that nonprofits would need, I think people really started to see me as like, "Oh, she knows what she's talking about." So I think that was one thing. But I think another thing that happened because I was working at a startup tech company, I was able to see the inner workings of how startups function. And so for me, it helps me understand a lot of things I needed to learn about my own business. Of like how to manage certain things that happen with startups. And even just the language of business, because I think that is an essential part of running a business is to be able to speak the language.

00:10:58 Sonia: And then I think third, I gained a level of confidence that didn't exist before. And so I think those three things really position me to be in a place where people wanted to work with me. And so at that time, the way the business was structured is that I knew the type of clients I wanted to work with. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I was consistent with engaging with people on social media. There was a lot of awareness and visibility of my brand. And so I think the timing of it just all worked out with all of those different things.

00:11:32 Sonia: To where now in the business, like I don't do much marketing and advertising. All of my clients are from referrals, our word of mouth, which is like a beautiful place to be in. I'm like, this is such a great place to be in, that people are reaching out to me to do business and I'm not having to do much leg work to like put myself out there. So it's been interesting to see that growth happen too.

00:11:57 Jess: I was trying to find the unmute button. Okay. That leads me into my question because I was going to ask you about marketing now that you're in this number one, you said busy phase. And it's always interesting for me to find out from folks when you're in your busy phase, how are you still promoting and marketing your business? But since you said that referrals have been your lead source of new business, I'm curious if you have any process in place? Are you asking people to refer you? Do you have a survey or a form? Are you getting testimonials in any kind of systematic way?

00:12:37 Jess: Or is this just like the skies have opened and people are just doing what they're supposed to do and you've been lucky? Both answers are totally fine, but I'm just curious for the folks listening, what is... I think people hear the word referrals and they think, "Oh, that's lucky." But actually, it could be, "No, you've just been strategic about it," or something. I don't know though.

00:13:04 Sonia: Yeah, that's a great question. So I treat my clients like friends and family. That is just what it comes down to. And so I think because of that, it almost just becomes a natural thing of like, they enjoy their experience so much, they tell someone else about it. Now I do have some structures in place because my brain just functions in systems and processes. So of course, like when I'm working with a client, as we get to the closure stage of a project, we do have a project closure meeting and I also do give them a feedback survey to understand what their experience was like.

00:13:44 Sonia: And so a part of that is usually like, if you've enjoyed your experience, please let someone else know about it. But I do believe that I think it just comes down to the relationships that I build with the people that I work with, that allows them to just go out and feel free to share their experiences about the work that we've done. I also am very intentional about making sure that my clients get what they pay for, or even get more than they pay for. And then I think that's also a testament to them wanting to tell other people that they enjoyed their experience and they should be willing to work with me.

00:14:24 Sonia: I will say though, when it comes to referrals, I don't accept every referral that comes my way. So that's also something I want to share as well. It's like, even though people come to me and they learned about my work through someone else, I'm still very mindful of who I choose to work with as well. And so I think all of that really ties into not necessarily having to do a lot of marketing. I like social media, but I like to do social media in a very organic way. I guess you would call them super fans of a core group of followers who engage with every single thing I post.

00:15:03 Sonia: And for me, that's enough. If those folks are always consistently engaging, I don't need a whole bunch of people that are not gonna be active or engaged. And so I like the content to be relatable. I want people to feel like they know me and then they know the brand. And so, I mean, that's just my approach to it. Not always systematic, but I'm like people do business with people. And so that's the thing I try to keep in mind.

00:15:32 Jess: Super helpful. I love it. I would love to hear a little bit more about your evolution of pricing over the last six years. So at the start of the conversation, when you said you decided to open your business, but the income wasn't coming in, I think you used the word as fast as you needed it to. And now you said that you're super busy. And I'd just be curious if along that process and going in and working for that startup evolved your pricing to a place that is more sustainable, or is it you've kept your pricing the same and you just have more clients? What does the structure look like from six years ago to today?

00:16:15 Sonia: Yeah, oh my God, that is such a great question. So I will preface and say, there's a lot that I'm still figuring out, but I... so year six are going into year six. So this year will be our first six figure year, which is like to me just like such an amazing place to be in. And then to the fact that like when you read about businesses, a lot of businesses don't make it past year five. And so for me, it's like I'm in two places where I'm like, oh my God, like I've made it past year five, but then I'm also bringing in more revenue to sustain the business.

00:16:54 Sonia: And so where I was six years ago is that I had no idea about pricing. I didn't know how to charge people. Like I literally, if somebody would say, "Oh, can you do this workshop for like $200?" I would be like, "Yeah, sure, no problem." Cause I just was like, "Oh, you want to pay me to talk?" Like, "I'll take it." But where I am now is that I understand a few different factors.

00:17:21 Sonia: So one, I understand that my credentials carry a lot of weight. So I did go to college for a long time, you know. And as a result of that, I feel like that in itself positions me to be seen as an expert in the field. And so because of that, that allows me to charge market rate if not higher. So right now market rate for consultants is around 250 or a little bit higher, 250 an hour or a little bit higher. And so for me, I do have flexibility to be able to charge that depending upon the type of client that I'm working with.

00:18:00 Sonia: So if it's a nonprofit and they don't have a lot of a huge budget, I'm flexible there because I still want them to get what they need to move their work forward. But when it comes to corporate clients, I'm like, "I know y'all have the budget," so I'm going to charge like my max price. And then also too, it means knowing the numbers of the business, right? So like knowing how much it takes to keep the business afloat. So now it's not only me that I'm having to pay my salary, but I also have a team member as well. And she's depending on me for her salary as well.

00:18:34 Sonia: And so it's just like keeping those things in mind also, but then also thinking through like, how do I want the business to scale and grow and how much is that gonna cost? So like right now I'm in a space of knowing at some point in the spring, I'll need to bring on probably an associate consultant to step into some of the day-to-day things that I'm doing so I can fully be focused on the visionary piece of the work. And that's gonna cost money. And so it's like, when I'm thinking about potential contracts and opportunities, I'm also thinking about okay, I have this to pay for, this to pay for, this to pay for.

00:19:13 Sonia: And so where I am now is that, so like, for example, I'm in the middle of a strategic planning project. And so this project, the contract is $25,000, where in the past I might've only charged like $5,000 for it. I think the difference between then and now is knowing how long something will take me to do it, how much effort I have to put into it, whether it's like consistent meetings with the client, just like my time that I'm exchanging for money. And then also how much time my team member is spending on projects as well.

00:19:48 Sonia: If I need to purchase new softwares or any new things to like support the project. So knowing all of those things also helps me understand how much I need to charge when I, you know, working with a client or doing a proposal. So that's kind of where I am with pricing. I will say there's a lot that I still need to figure out, especially now that I'm in this like scaling phase of the business. But I feel like I'm in a good place unless somebody tells me otherwise, I'm just going to keep moving forward with the knowledge that I have. So...

00:20:27 Cindy: I love that. And oh, there's so much that you said that I'm like, yes, yes. One of the things that I find comes up with consultants as they look at growing their team is figuring out how to structure the pricing around people. Like do you charge, like to even mark up with their time or do you put them on salary and then you figure out the finances and I've seen lots of people do different ways. So I'm curious when you look at your planning and look at your numbers, do you say, okay, this person has this much capacity and therefore in order for me to pay them, I need this much work and what's the profitability of that? Like how do you think about the numbers behind that?

00:21:17 Sonia: Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's a good question too. So my approach and I don't think it's systematic to like any business advice or anything of that nature, but I really just went with what my intuition was telling me. So for me, my team member that I have on my team, I knew what she could offer to the team or to the business. I knew the quality of work she could deliver in a short amount of time. And so because of that, because she had flexibility on her end and then I was willing to kind of meet her where she needed me to meet her at.

00:21:56 Sonia: We essentially started off on a contract basis. And so I really wanted to see how we would mesh together, but then how she would navigate my firm being a startup and some things are still not figured out, but then also how she would work with partnerships and client relations and all of those things. And so really it was like a test run to see how everything would work together. And then, so right now she's still contracted, but the goal is to have her come on full time, salaried in January.

00:22:28 Sonia: And it was also a mix of me having to do some financial planning as well to ensure that she could get the salary that made sense for her lifestyle. I am huge on paying people a livable wage. And so I wanted to make sure I was in a position to comfortably be able to pay her a livable wage. And so there were so many different factors that went into all of those decisions. But essentially, she's been a closer, right? So she's been helping me close deals that I wouldn't have been able to close on my own because she knows the language and she knows how to sale to people, you know, and so I'm like that in itself adds a lot of value to the work that we do.

00:23:09 Sonia: And so because of that, it's like, okay, she's a great fit. And I wanna make sure like she doesn't leave, you know? And so, when I think about the next person I bring in, I wanna kind of use the same method as well or the same framework to be like, you know, what. And I hate to say it this way, but it's like, what value do you bring to the firm and like, how do you mess with us as a team and like, what can you do to support, you know, the next phase of growth?

00:23:34 Sonia: And so, that was just my approach to it. Again, I don't know if it would have made sense and maybe a different, you know, structure or a different sector. But like for me, it just it works really well. So I'm at the point where I can't do work without her. I'm like you can't ever go anywhere. So she's so great to work with.

00:23:57 Jess: Okay, Sonia, it's time to play another round of our rapid fire questions. You ready?

00:24:04 Sonia: Yes, ma'am.

00:24:05 Jess: Okay, cool. Where is your next dream travel destination?

00:24:10 Sonia: Oh, okay. Iceland. So I am obsessed with the Aurora Borealis, AKA the Northern Lights. So either Iceland or Alaska, but I haven't decided yet, but it needs to be next year, like ASAP.

00:24:26 Cindy: Okay, can I just...So also Northern Canada, just for the record, but you totally can. It's hard because it's not guaranteed. So A: I have family in Iceland. We're not Icelandic, but married into Icelanders. It's not guaranteed. It's like you plan a trip and it's like, you could, you could, my brother wants to go with his family. So I'll let you know. Yeah, it's definitely very dark if you go at that time of year.

00:25:01 Sonia: Okay.

00:25:04 Jess: Okay. You just mentioned being a foodie on the podcast. What is your favorite Southern dish?

00:25:13 Sonia: Oh, favorite Southern dish? I'm probably going to go with boiled seafood. I mean, that's a staple here but specifically from Louisiana, because we have a certain way of cooking it that other places don't. So it has to be Louisiana boiled seafood. So like crawfish, shrimp, crabs, potatoes, corn, all that good stuff.

00:25:37 Jess: It is so good. I had the pleasure of going to New Orleans earlier this year and it was so good. Okay, and my last question is, since you are a woman across the internet, what is a good social follow? Is there an account? Is there an influencer? Who do you really go to for laughs, giggles, inspiration?

00:25:58 Sonia: Oh, man. So I don't do I have a specific person? I don't know. So I want to say I don't have a specific person, but I'm going to say I love TikTok. The energy on TikTok is different. Like people are funny. Like I will watch a video and then read the comments for like 30 minutes because people are hilarious on TikTok. And it's so different from Instagram where people are like just upset in the comments. I'm like, y'all calm down. So yeah, social favorite.

00:26:30 Cindy: Can I just share it? Because I just discovered this thing on TikTok. It's a show called Task Master and it's the New Zealand like version. It's hilarious. I just discovered it and my kids and I watch it and it's really funny. So Taskmaster NZ, like New Zealand, highly recommends her. I'm hopping into these rapid fires because there's so much commentary today.

00:26:59 Jess: But I concur. I too like TikTok, mostly as a consumer, not so much as a content producer, but it's good. It's good. Okay, thank you for playing.

00:27:14 Jess: So it seems like, I mean, my impression of how you just described your team is that, again, you just seem like you either know what you really need to fill the gaps or you are just a superb manager. I find that when I meet with other consultants, that jump from solopreneur to now a team manager either has two outcomes. One that is smooth sailing and really good. And as you're talking, you're like, I'm looking forward to the next person we bring on the team, or it's utter chaos. And so I'm just curious for folks listening in to, again, like any systems or tips or communication preferences that you have to ensure that smooth sailing.

00:18:03 Jess: I'd also love your just feedback on like expectations, because I know whenever we bring a new person into the fold, there's a training period and they have...Yes, they can hit the ground running, but there's also like, that can be great, but it has to be messy. And you sometimes have to slow down to speed up, I guess what I'm saying. So I'm just curious, since again, this has happened in the more recent terms of your business, what did that look like bringing on a new team member? How have you onboarded them? How have you ensured a smooth process? All the things while keeping your momentum in your business going.

00:28:45 Sonia: Yeah. So for me, so I like to consider myself very self-aware of how I function, not only in the workplace, but also as a leader of a company. And so, a lot of that is understanding what I'm really good at, but also being honest about what I'm not good at. And so, one of the first things I recognize is that I'm just not good at sales. And it's not because I don't understand how it works, but just like I get caught up sometime and like not want. I don't know. I am just not a good salesperson. And so, because I am aware of that. I wanted to make sure I had someone on the team who could close deals without even hesitating or being anxious or nervous about it.

00:29:35 Sonia: And so, I'm saying that to say it required a lot of honesty about what gaps existed in myself to know how to find someone to fill in those gaps. Another thing that my team member does really well is the way we communicate with each other. Oftentimes she is able to read between the lines, which is so impressive. I talk a lot, but I'm not always clear about my communication. And so, when I realized we also worked really well together when it comes to communication, I love the way that she holds me accountable. Like she calls me out on things and like, I'm okay with that. And so, to answer your first question, it starts with us as people. We have to be okay with recognizing what we're great at, what we're not great at, and then allowing someone else to fill in those areas.

00:30:34 Sonia: And so even as I think about the next team member, now I'm starting to think about, okay, what gaps do I have? What gaps does she have that we would need a third person to fill in those gaps as well? And I think if we can keep that method going, I think we're really going to start to build a really beautiful puzzle. So that's just really been the method for that piece of it. And so, what I also loved about her in the work that she does is that she was familiar with the startup environment. So she was familiar with environments that weren't always like superstructure, there might've been things that still needed to be figured out. And so because she also had that knowledge, it was easy for her to come in and be like, okay, I see gaps in this, I see gaps in this, and I can put it all together.

00:31:21 Sonia: So like right now, a lot of the work that she's doing outside of like special projects is also like helping me build out processes and procedures that might've not existed before. And it's not that I'm not capable of doing it, I just don't have the time to do it. And so, I am not opposed to someone else using their knowledge and expertise to fill in those areas, which is also like a personal thing for me as well. Like I don't have issues with like, someone coming in and helping me figure out how to make the company better. So that, I mean, that's really how we've been working together. I think in terms of expectations, I might need you to ask that question again.

00:32:06 Jess: I don't know, it was a long time ago. But if you're okay, I kind of want to go in a different direction. Unless, do you have anything else you want to ask about teams?

00:32:18 Cindy: I did, but I forgot. So we cannot forget something. And yeah.

00:32:25 Jess: So one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is because I know you like across all social channels. And I think it's really important for people to know that like this isn't the only part of your life, meaning I know that you're big on travel. I know that you encourage people to do solo traveling and all of these things. And it sounds to me or it looks at least from the outside looking in that you lead a very like life first business. That's kind of been this theme today in some of the conversations Cindy has had. And I know that when you are a business owner, that is so difficult to do. And so, I'm just curious, like, how do you balance? How do you manage? How do you prioritize? How do you carve out time for the other things that you're passionate about that maybe don't have anything to do with your business?

00:33:18 Sonia: Yeah, oh, that's so good. So one, it starts with mindset, right? So one of the reasons I left corporate was because it was hard for me to agree and fall in alignment with the typical workforce, corporate structure of like nine to five, 48 hours a week for five days. It was hard for me to really like, it just didn't feel right. Like I'm a person who's big on like vibes and stuff and it just didn't vibe with me. And so, I knew going into my business that like I wanted to not have a traditional corporate structure. So the first was like starting off with remote first work. So I'm fully remote.

00:34:06 Sonia: My team member is fully remote. She's in Florida. And so, we work so well together and we have not worked in person with each other. And so, that allows her to have the balance that she needs in her life. I know she has a young kid and then she's expecting. And so, it provides her with the ability to focus on her family first, which I absolutely want her to do. And then even for me, as I think about the potential of having a family in the future. I am structuring my business to where it allows me to be able to focus on the things that are of a priority to me. Because the work will always be there. It just is what it is, the work will be there. But there's things in life that you need to focus on. And so for me, one of the things I love about the way I've structured the firm is that, so my sister, I have a nephew, which he's like one of my favorite people. And then she's also expecting another child in a few weeks.

00:35:02 Sonia: And so for me my business has allowed me to have the flexibility to spend time with family. I've been able to watch him grow from day one because I'm not in a position where I have to ask for a day off or put in PTO. I can cancel our reschedule meeting when I need to. And so it's like just having the ability to do that takes a lot of stress off of life. But then also I don't want my clients to be in the mindset that they have to always be available for the work to be done. And so part of that is like, I'm really clear on boundaries. So I'm not available before 9am. Do not call me or text me after 5pm. Like, you know, the weekends are the weekends, holidays are holidays, but we're still able to do really impactful work.

00:35:47 Sonia: And so, I think, you know, as I said, for me, it's a mindset, but I think if I can also get other people in the mindset as well, it allows us to just do really great work without the extra stress that comes with it. And so, that's just been the beauty of the firm. And even as the business grows, like I wanna bring on more people who have that mindset as well. Like I don't want people to feel like they have to work themselves into the ground, you know, just for a paycheck. Like that's just not the way I function.

00:36:17 Cindy: So good. Okay, you mentioned that the woman who works for you is expecting her second. One of the things I know Jess and I and some friends have talked about before is like, how do you support your employees through a mal-leave? So I'd love to hear what your thoughts are, or if you have anything planned or how you're thinking about managing that in terms of time off, paid time off, like what, I'm from Canada, so we have different rules, but like, I know in the States it's kind of just like a little bit of a wild west, so what are you thinking?

00:36:58 Sonia: Yeah, that's a great question. And so ideally what I would like to happen, we haven't really sat down and had a lot of conversations yet because it's still pretty early for her, but as we, so we're gonna do some strategic planning between November and December and really think about the next year. And so, I'm sure that that's gonna be a part of the conversation. And so ideally for me, so I am a giver by nature. And so ideally what I would love to happen is that she is able to take as much time as she needs with her family and I am able to still compensate her. Like that is what my goal is. But I want to do what makes sense for her because like I mentioned, I want her to come back. And so, whenever we sit down and talk about it, I'm sure we're gonna talk about how much time she wants to take off.

00:37:46 Sonia: And then talk about what that compensation will look like. But for me, I want to be able to still pay her while she's not working. And then in addition to that, be able to bring in another person, whether it's contracts or even someone to just fill in a new role that can support the work that she typically does. But when it comes down to it, I just want her to feel supported. Like I don't want any extra stress in her life. Like I don't want her to feel like things are going undone because she's not here. But I just, I want that to be a special time for her and I don't want to interfere with that. So I know that's like a very kind of like, you know, just rainbows and sunshine to answer, but I mean, that's really, because, so I'm not a mom yet, but I think about like, what would I want? Like if I was a mom and I had a job and like, I needed time off. So like for me, it's just thinking about like, what would I want? And then I want to offer that experience to someone else.

00:38:46 Cindy: That's so beautiful. And Jess and I are rainbows and sunshine people too. So we're here for that. Oh my goodness. We're running out of time. So we want to ask, I want to ask our favorite question, which is for a juicy confession. So share with us your business or business adjacent confession.

00:39:09 Sonia: Oh gosh. Business confession. Most days I wake up and question why I started a business. I'm like, what did I sign myself up for? But on the flip side of that, hi, my business is great because I'm doing a great job at it. Like that is just what it is. I am an expert in this field. And so, that is like, I am seeing the fruits of my labor. So that's my confession. Cause sometimes I try to be humble and I'm like, no. Don't be too humble.

00:39:47 Jess: No, I definitely don't.

00:39:51 Cindy: That is amazing. And yes, I think like while we're sunshine and rainbows, I feel like, you know, we can brag. We can be, you know, celebrate our success. So I love that. Sonia, where can our listeners connect with you? Where do they find you online?

00:40:11 Sonia: Yeah, so I'm LinkedIn, of course. So I have my profile on LinkedIn under Sonia Daniels, PhD. So love connecting people on LinkedIn. And then I also have a business page on LinkedIn as well as Daniels Consulting. So please connect with me there. And then I have a business profile on Instagram @SDaniels Consulting, so I believe those are the only two places in terms of like business. Now personally, I'm all over the internet. So Instagram, TikTok, I'm just kind of randomly posting, just like Jess said, my travels, I'm also a foodie, Louisiana is a great place to eat, so I'm always somewhere eating but yeah, that, that is where folks can find me on the internet.

00:41:05 Cindy: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing all of the behind the scenes of your business.

00:41:13 Jess: Thank you, Sonia.

00:41:18 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions Podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.

00:41:29 Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.

00:41:37 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.

00:41:42 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts so that we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

00:41:47 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

00:41:54 Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

00:42:02 Cindy: See you next time.