“Long story short, the thing that I'm really about is Democratizing thought leadership or this thing we call thought leadership. I don't really love that term. So that the people with the real wisdom, insight and lived experience that I think that we should all be listening to can grow their influence and recognition so that we can actually move the world towards a more just future.” - Tania Bhattacharrya

In today’s podcast, we are chatting with Tania Bhattacharrya. We talked about her going from her in-house job as a fundraiser to having a business of her own, to becoming known for something very specific. Today she is working with vision-led entrepreneurial women in the social impact space and helps them build their power and influence using LinkedIn. 

Highlights:

1. The importance of sequencing your work - starting with engagement then moving on to building your products. 

2. Getting really clear on your offer and getting so specific you become known for that one thing!

3. Battling imposter syndrome and the idea of being thought leader

Connect with Tania:

• Website: https://lumosmarketing.co 

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tania-bhattacharyya/ 

• Podcast: The Campfire Circle

Find Us Online:  https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/

Transcript

[00:00:00] Cindy: One of the reasons Jess and I started this podcast is because we wanted community. We wanted to be in community with other non-profit coaches and consultants and share and be open and this podcast is just one way that we can do that. But we also wanted to share with you an amazing virtual community called Consultants for Good, who is the sponsor of this week's episode of the podcast.

[00:00:26] Jess: I don't know if you have this experience being a solo-entrepreneur who works from home, but sometimes you can get really in your head, especially with questions you want answered. And I know for me, when I try and speak to other entrepreneurs who do not serve non-profit clients, they just don't get it. And community, I mean Consultants for Good has an amazing community where you can ask those questions by people who really get it, who have been in your shoes and have the same experience working with so many different nonprofits. There's resource sharing, there's referrals, there's professional development, there's monthly meetups. It's just everything that you could want as someone who wants to be in community with other nonprofit consultants.

[00:01:11] Cindy: Yeah. And one of the things I love is that people are fast to respond. So I think, I saw earlier today, someone asked a question about where to find insurance and right away, number of people are responding what they use and all of that. So there's a list serve, there's a Slack group, there's monthly meetups, but really, it's a responsive, engaged community of other consultants. And I mean, I just love being a part of it. We think you will, too.

[00:01:43] Jess: Definitely. So, if you are interested in being a part of the consultants for good community, you can go to consultants four, the number four good.com. Again, that's consultants4good.com

[00:01:58] Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions Podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

[00:02:02] Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house non-profit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.

[00:02:10] Cindy: After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what's next.

[00:02:19] Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain,

[00:02:29] Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with a nonprofit is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

[00:02:50] Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.

[00:03:10] Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a non-profit coaching or consulting business. We're gonna empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.

[00:03:28] Jess: You ready? Let's go. Hey, Cindy.

[00:03:31] Cindy: Hey, Jess.

[00:03:32] Jess: We're back with another episode with one of both of our favorite guests. Maybe we shouldn't have favorites, but she's one of more favorites.

[00:03:39] Cindy: I feel like they're all favorites, but I'm just gonna say what I love about this guest is she has like a little catchphrase. And I feel like I love that she's known for something.

[00:03:51] Jess: Yes.

[00:03:51] Cindy: Which is Lazy on LinkedIn.

[00:03:53] Jess: Yes.

[00:03:54] Cindy: So if you know who we're talking about?

[00:03:56] Jess: Which is Tania Battacharrya, the one and only. And this episode was really refreshing for me because we got to walk through her origin story a bit. And one thing, Tania and I are friends in real life. We've known each other for many, many years and she is just one of the most thoughtful people, personally and professionally and I just loved hearing her origin story to present days.

[00:04:23] Jess: You know, I think she said 21-22 months later about how she decided to take the leap from her in-house job to then starting with her signature offer and then is now moving into the web, into many space. I just feel like for anyone who's feeling a little clunky, maybe like myself, it was a really great conversation to hear what her thoughtful steps are.

[00:04:44] Cindy: Mm-hmm. I wrote down, sort of, she's continually evolving, but very intentionally and I think that's really something so many people I work with, they think they have to start as they want to end. And we don't know the end. We don't know the future. We can't figure that out until we start and we start learning what we like and don't like. And that's, I just love and honestly, she also has beautiful phrases and examples. I think there's so much here for everyone in their journey of building their business. So let's dive into the conversation.

[00:05:27] Jess: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Confessions with Jess and Cindy. It is my absolute honor and pleasure to welcome our next guest and my real life friend, Tania Battacharrya of Lumos Marketing. And I can't wait to dive in into all the things in your business, VIP days, starting hitting the ground running. Welcome to the show.

[00:05:53] Tania: Thank you so much, Jess and Cindy, for having me on. I can't even tell you how excited I am. This is such a joy.

[00:06:00] Jess: We were just... oh, go ahead.

[00:06:03] Cindy: We love what you do and it's our pleasure. So… can't wait.

[00:06:06] Jess: We were just saying how funny it was that we booked this recording months ago, and then at the time of this recording, it's mid-October. Here we are, and it felt like at the time, that was a long, far away experience we were about to have, and then boom, here we are.

[00:06:24] Cindy: Here we are.

[00:06:25] Jess: Here we are, ready to go. I just wanna dive in with the first question because I have been in business longer than you. But you are actually someone I look up to and admire when it comes to your business because I feel like you have done everything very smart, very planned, very strategic, where I kind of feel like I'm a wild horse like bouncing all over the place. And I would love for you to tell folks who are listening who may or may not know you and your work. Please introduce yourself, but then talk us through your process because it was just very thoughtful, maybe that's the right word. It's very thoughtful about how you went from your in-house job as a fundraiser to going off on your own. And it felt like it was... this is obviously outside perspective, like low stress, very easy. Like let it be easy, that's how you did it. So tell us all the ways because much to people's surprise, it doesn't need to be a wild, wacky adventure of like I've always done.

[00:07:38] Tania: Oh, I'm just laughing because I love that. That's the external perception. But---

[00:07:43] Jess: So funny.

[00:07:45] Tania: No, I would love to tell you a little bit more about that journey. And so, I'm Tania, I am a dreamy Pisces. I'm a recovering nonprofit executive director. And pretty much today, I'm all about working with really vision-led entrepreneurial women in the social impact space so that they can build their power and influence using LinkedIn.

[00:08:05] Tania: And so, like you alluded to, I worked for a non-profit. It was a mental healthcare nonprofit. I worked there for 12 years and that's how you and I know each other because of [Gemma Pauline] and I know. And really while I was there, I was there for 12 years. And one of my favorite things to do from day one, like day one, I came right out of college and I feel like my supervisors weren't quite sure what to do with me. They were all wearing all the hats and they're like, "Well, just go. Go talk to some of the women that we serve and get some impact stories, right? Get some narratives." And so I was like, "Okay." And I fell in love with this process because I got to sit with our patients and really midwife their stories in a really strength-based way. And help them share their recovery narrative, but reframe it so it wasn't so rooted in the shame, and the guilt, and the trauma, and more so rooted in their strength and resilience and power.

[00:09:03] Tania: And so even as I grew and took on more of a major gifts role, 'cuz my main thing, I did was major gifts for a long time, and then I eventually became an executive director. But I just kept doing that, the storytelling piece because it just tied me to the mission and I loved it. And then 2020 hit, and I just really... I don't even wanna say for the first time, but it really, really hit me how I looked around and as I saw many women who are working in the trenches of their issue, like they were coming up with amazing solutions to support the people they stood for, especially in light of COVID, especially in light of the long overdue racial reckoning in our country, especially in light of this severe increase in mental health severity during that time and that was the space I worked in. And I just knew so many women doing really life- changing things because I wasn't. And I knew about it because I was in the fray with them, but I didn't like I just kept seeing the same male, pale and stale leaders on the news, at the boardroom table and all those traditional spaces of leadership, not in the fray, right?

[00:10:09] Tania: And so anyway, long story short, I think once you decide to leave your non-profit career and go into the consultant space, you just like I think you just know and then you just almost can't go back, right? It's kind of like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. You just can't go backwards.

[00:10:29] Tania: And so long story short, the thing that I'm really about is democratizing thought leadership or this thing we call thought leadership. I don't really love that term. So that the people with the real wisdom, insight, and lived experience that I think that we should all be listening to, can grow their influence and recognition so that we can actually move the world towards a more just future, which if you think about is really such a mission driven thing.

[00:10:54] Tania: And so I think that's maybe why the transition just seemed chill. But I wouldn't say it was chill. I wouldn't say it was chill and I'm happy to talk more about that experience because I think sequencing is really important. I came out the gate thinking I was gonna start a course, I built a course, and then I was like, "Oh, nobody knows who I am, so let me do something different." You know what I mean? Yeah.

[00:11:20] Jess: Just to follow up there, because again, outside perspective is always maybe so different from inside. Can you just walk us through what your process was or like did you have a year's worth of savings or did you really plan for years to go off on your own. I know one of the first things you did, which was again, so smart and strategic, was sit down with other non-profit coaches and consultants to ask them and investigate what their process was like. So, if you can walk us through your process a little bit so that folks who might be listening who haven't yet gone off on their own or who are at their very beginning and have the space to rewind a little bit, this could be really helpful for them.

[00:12:03] Tania: Yeah, that's a great question. So much like many non-profit leaders, I was maxed out on my PTO and so that was actually like what I used to kind of fund my creating my website and really get the ball rolling on that kind of stuff. And I spent the first two months actually like building out of stuff and I don't recommend that. That's actually a big lesson that I learned. I built out a course, I built out my website, and then I started delivering the services. And in retrospect, I should have gone out and started having those conversations from day one and then built the services based on what I was learning.

[00:12:43] Tania: So I kind of went about that backwards and I think that that's a common thing 'cuz I think we wanna be really... like we wanna have the beautiful branded materials, I wanna have the fancy website, but you can't know what's going to go on there until you kind of like are in the arena for a little bit, right?

[00:13:01] Tania: And so you're right. And I mean, you and I are both... we're local, we've known each other and so you're one of the first people I called, right? And I called up all the people that I saw doing this work, which wasn't. I mean, at that time I didn't know a lot of people who were non-profit consultants. I feel like you were one of the only ones. But I had a lot of informational interviews and just kind to try to glean what they were doing and it's interesting when you do that because I think you have to have a really strong sense of self while you do that, because what works for other people doesn't necessarily work for you, right?

[00:13:36] Jess: Oh, my goodness. You see our head nods. We're just like my head about to fall off my mine so hard.

[00:13:40] Cindy: I'm just literally making notes to underscore things that you've said like start, don't do all the building, just get started and build as you go is such an important piece of device. And oh, I feel like we were just talking about this, Jess, in your monthly meetups where we talked about like everyone's teaching you the quote unquote, "right way to do things." And I did the same thing. I went and I listened. I met with a bunch of consultants and you still have to find what works for you. So I love that. And I'd love to ask what is working for you? So now, you've been doing this for a while, we love to ask. Tell us how you make money and what your products and services are.

[00:14:28] Tania: Yeah, so that's a great question. So obviously, it's changed, and this is actually a great timely question, Cindy, because it's changed recently. So I've been in business now for 21 months. I'm talking about it like it's a baby, it's 21 months old, let's just say almost two years. But for the first couple months, like I said, my offer suite was just an amorphous blob. I just did whatever like, "Do you need a blog post written? Cool, I'll do it." But then, I transitioned into offering VIP days, which is really like a one-on-one high ticket intensive offer. And that VIP day was all about brand messaging on LinkedIn.

[00:15:06] Tania: And the reason that was such a great way to get me started in business is because it allowed me to focus on one transformation and become an expert in that one specific transformation. And I knew, like any question that was kind of come up, I knew the answer. You know what I mean? At this, at this point anyway, after doing 50 of 'em because you just don't know what you don't know. And I think that once you get to do the same thing over and over, it's just real, you just get to really position yourself as an expert.

[00:15:35] Tania: And I actually had Jordan Gill, who I went through her program done in a day on my podcast. We talked about that. I think that when you put out an offer like that and you just do this very specific transformation that has a really deep value for the particular person that you're talking to, it becomes easy to sell. It becomes really easy to sell.

[00:15:57] Tania: But now my VIP is on vacation. It did a lot of hard work and it's on a tropical vacation and I've transitioned into more of like a one to many high touch group program that's called the Kindling Collective where I really teach social impact consultants to be lazy on LinkedIn, meaning they get to just spend an hour per week and still attract values aligned clients, book dreaming opportunities and spark change.

[00:16:22] Tania: And so, that's very new for me. I launched it like three weeks ago. And so, happy to talk about that launch if you want later on 'cuz that was a very new experience for me. I've never launched anything and that was a whole thing. Other than that, I do some paid speaking gigs and I still have [To Women on Retainer for ghost written] LinkedIn post 'cuz they're just the bees knees and they can't get rid of me.

[00:16:46] Cindy: I love that and I love that you're known for being lazy on LinkedIn, right? I feel like that's your thing. So your products are shifting, but that core niche is consistent. And the way you talked about niche-ing down and for those who say niche in the States and parts of the States. I apologize. I'm in Canada. We say niche.

[00:17:14] Cindy: But so many people are at especially early days, they're afraid to niche down. They're afraid to alienate potential money, potential dollars. And I'd love for you to talk about how... you said it's become a lot easier to sell. And I'd love for you to talk about that process and just getting over some of the FOMO of like, "Okay, I don't do those things, but here's what I do really well."

[00:17:41] Tania: Yeah, there's a lot of FOMO there. And this is so timely because this is one of the first modules in my program, so we're dealing with it right now and there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of scarcity that comes up because it's kind of counterintuitive that when you actually greatly decrease the kind of slice of people that you work with, it actually like so much increases your visibility and your resonance. But I found this to be the case, and so I think that we are most well-equipped to serve the person that we once were because we are relatable in that we've trudged through the journey and we now have the lived solutions from going through that.

[00:18:21] Tania: Our dear friend, Brene Brown , our godmother, Brene Brown, has this quote which is, "One day, you'll tell the story of what you overcame and it will become somebody else's survival guide." And I think that's really applicable in this work of nicheing and of thought leadership, right? Of positioning yourself as that go-to voice because it's not always like we don't have to have three PhDs. We don't have to have even like that much experience like traditional experience, I think that if we can position ourselves as very much having gone through the experience that that niche or that niche that we stand for, that community that we like are all about, I think it just attracts the right people to us like a laser beam, right?

[00:19:07] Tania: You know, just yesterday, actually, I was talking to a new friend who does PR for nonprofits but she only works with nonprofits that works with children, right? And so it's like you become highly referable in that case. Anytime I talk to a non-profit that works with children and they mention anything about PR? It's gonna be like, "Oh, you need to talk to Katie." It just makes people want to ambassador you and amplify you, right? Have you found that to be the case?

[00:19:34] Jess: I'm so glad you said that because that's how I feel about you. Anytime I speak to a non-profit client or even a consultant in this space who is looking to get lazy on LinkedIn, looking to amplify their thought leadership, I don't even have anyone else in my brain. You were just so narrowly who I would refer and again, just wanna underscore how brilliant that is. Because like you said, you kind of create, unsuspectingly, this army of people who become your greatest megaphones for your work and you don't really have to work that hard to do it. So it allows you to continue to show up once a week on LinkedIn where other people are sweating, seven days a week over there or whatever. And I just think that Chef's Kiss, so smart. I don't know what inspired you to do that or if that was just such a natural thing, but my hat is literally off to you on that.

[00:20:38] Jess: I wanna switch a little bit because now that you've had your feet wet, so to speak, for the last... I think you said 21 months, you're going from this one-to-one offering to now one-to-many. And I feel like this is very familiar for our fellow nonprofit consultants. And so, I'm curious about the transition. I'm curious about why. I'm curious about price points. Is it a capacity? Is it a shiny object thing? I would love to know all the things about why you have gone from doing... I think you said 50 plus, one-on-one VIP days to now offering a container that works in more of a group course program space.

[00:21:26] Tania: Yeah, that's a really great question. And so to what I spoke earlier in terms of I was doing these VIP days and realized I was saying the same things over and over again, which is great from like an expertise building perspective, from a perspective of knowing like what content I should put out there 'cause I know it's gonna resonate, 'cause I know exactly what question you're gonna ask me when I start to talk about creator mode or whatever. And I realized that I was saying the same things over and over and over again. And so I figured, "Okay, I can leverage this knowledge and expertise and actually be able to help more people in the same way, like in the same vein."

[00:22:03] Tania: And so, I think everything when it comes to entrepreneurship and business decisions is a little bit of an emergent process. And so, I have been through my own kind of high ticket group coaching programs that I've invested in. I've seen how other people have done it. And over time, I was like, "You know, I think I can do this but I needed sequencing is important, right? I needed to make sure I had help." So I hired a VA before I even launched into this process like I did.

[00:22:35] Tania: Yeah. Hiring a VA, I think was the most important thing 'cuz I can tell you for sure, there's no way I could have set this all up myself from the tech, to figuring like zappy or that my tech stack has like doubled overnight and I there's no way I could have done it myself.

[00:22:52] Jess: Okay. Tania, we're back for another round of our rapid fire questions. Are you ready?

[00:22:58] Tania: Yeah.

[00:22:59] Jess: Okay, great. I know that you are a super foodie. So, if you have a friend coming to visit you in Orange County, where are you taking them to eat?

[00:23:09] Tania: Oh my gosh, that's such a good question. So that happened to me recently, but you know what? I took her to LA. Even though there's so many good places to eat in Orange County, but this literally just happened. So I took her to a place called Ruen Pair, which is my favorite Thai restaurant outside of Thailand. Oh my gosh, that food is so dreamy, so good.

[00:23:28] Jess: What neighborhood is that in?

[00:23:30] Tania: Thai Town.

[00:23:31] Jess: Oh, amazing. Of course. I also know that you were an avid reader, big giant Harry Potter fan. What is the best book you've read in let's say, the last three months?

[00:23:42] Tania: Ooh, so good. Can I say two? I wanna say two. And they're kind of related. So one is Sonya Renee Taylors the Bodies on Apology. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful book. Incredible book. And the other one is Rest is Resistance by the Nat Ministry. And it just came out. So I'm on page 70, but I know that this is something I'm gonna continue reading over and over and over and over again. I highly recommend it to anyone.

[00:24:10] Jess: I love that. And as the ultimate teacher of all things, thought leadership on LinkedIn, who is a thought leader you really like to follow on the platform?

[00:24:20] Tania: Ooh, that's a great question. Oh, there's so many. How do I just pick one? Oh, okay. You know what? The first person who came to mind is actually Mitch, Mitch Stein, who really speaks a lot about the non-profit space and thought leadership in the non-profit space. And he and I have collaborated on a couple things and I just love reading all of his content. It's so relatable and personal and just fabulous.

[00:24:48] Jess: And he uses a lot of wonderful emojis. Okay, cool. Thanks for playing.

[00:24:56] Tania: Absolutely.

[00:25:00] Tania: But pricing is an interesting question. I think you were asking about pricing too. And so the thing is, it's interesting 'cause there's a one day container where you provide a lot of personalized one-on-one, deep, deep work. And there's a six month container where you provide for me at least, I'm providing a similar transformation. It's a bigger transformation 'cause you can do a lot more in six months than you can do in a day. But I've been figuring out what is the right pricing around that? Because how do they compare? And I want this to be more accessible. I want to really be able to meet people where they are especially maybe when they're just getting started or in their first year of business, so it's been a process. And so, I always like to rely on my experience in the nonprofit world, right?

[00:25:50] Tania: And so, like I mentioned, I have major gifts fundraising background. And so I'm not necessarily a stranger to large amounts of funds or asking for large amounts of funds. But at the same time, I feel like it's different when... it seems like you're asking for those funds for yourself, right? But over time, I've realized that you're not actually asking for it yourself, it's an even exchange of energy because you're providing a deep specific value based on the problem they're looking to solve. So like my first VIP day, I charged $1,500. And that felt good to me because I was still very much figuring out how to productize my expertise. We have so much know how in our brain. And it's like, "Okay, how do I? What IP? How do I create a framework? How do I bring people through?" And you're just not gonna know that day one or day 30 or day 60, like you just have to go through it. The only way through it is through it, I think.

[00:26:44] Tania: And then over time, I upped my VIP days like 500 bucks every couple VIP days. And now, even though that VIP day is on vacation, it's like $4,500. And I think when we talk about pricing, I think the reason that I can be comfortable to the point and confident in that number to the point where I almost bring the energy of like this is a steal, is because I have seen the value that's created. But it took a year, or whatever, 20-22 months to see that true extent of the value because especially, the work of thought leadership is a really slow burn.

[00:27:19] Tania: And so, I think with pricing, I think it's really important for us to try to figure out how to price based on the lifetime transformation that our clients are gonna receive and how they're still gonna be benefiting from that scope of work a year from now, three years from now, five years from now. And we are so close to the transformation that we provide so we can forget how valuable it can be for someone like somebody who does systems for a non-profit might be like, "Well this is fun for me. This is easy. I could do this in my sleep."

[00:27:52] Tania: But you have to think about the hours and headache that you're saving when you go in and expertly do that. Yeah. And so if you see enough examples over time where folks have gotten to you after you provided services for them, you can start to see how easy it becomes to raise your price to really align with the exchange of value that's there.

[00:28:17] Jess: I love that example so much. And just to give another story because I know an audio version like we're talking stories are so helpful. I just have to give another example because I think that this is so important. I struggle with pricing. Actually, I don't really know a non-profit coach or consultant that doesn't. And I have this friend who has started going to my functional medicine doctor to work on a whole variety of issues. And she's expensive. She doesn't take insurance, everything's out of pocket. And my friend, bless her, is very frugal. So to make this kind of investment is unusual for her. And she was visiting the doctor, doing a blood test and discovered that she is allergic to bananas and almonds. Two things she was eating every single day.

[00:29:09] Cindy: Wow.

[00:29:10] Jess: And she was like, "I am healthy. I exercise, I have this bloat," like whatever. And just this morning, the reason why I'm telling this story, I was just thinking about that is because she's said things to me like she's feeling so much better, the bloat is gone. All these amazing transformations, right? And I was thinking for someone who was not willing to take the blood test, pay for the visit with the doctor, what is the cost of feeling bloated for the rest of your life with that lack of knowledge? You know, what does that cost you because it probably cost her $400, $500 to uncover that mystery. But now, she has that information for life. And I was like, "I wonder what that price is for other people?"

[00:30:00] Cindy: Oh, well, can we just talk for a second also about the inheritance we have coming from the nonprofit sector?

[00:30:09] Jess: Oh my god.

[00:30:09] Cindy: Around value. Because we've been told our whole careers that our time is not valuable and our expertise is not valuable. We get paid crap. We get treated like crap. And like our clients feel that so deeply. And so that's also like we can see the value and we can align with value, but also we have to bring them. Well, I was gonna say we're fighting, right? We're fighting with people like them, undervaluing themselves because that's what they've learned. But I don't wanna say fighting. So let's say we're bringing them along a journey to find their self worth. And that's not easy.

[00:30:48] Cindy: And Tonya, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how you actually, not necessarily sales, but how you help people understand that value if they're running their own business or if they're the thought leader for their organization that that is the best investment they can make in their leadership.

[00:31:12] Tania: Yeah, that's a great lead in. And really, I just have to say that damn overhead myth just never goes away. But just like nonprofits have overhead, real businesses have overhead and it costs money to provide services, right? And so, yeah, this is an interesting thing.

[00:31:37] Tania: You know, I think for me it's all about painting a picture of the vision that could be possible. And I think so often, because we're so, again, so close to our services, we tend to talk about how comfortable the plane is versus how beautiful the tropical destination that we're going to is, right? And so it's like, "Ooh, I have eight modules and you're gonna have access to circle and you're gonna...:" And that stuff is important. And it's very important to us 'cause we've spent so long crafting it and creating it. But at the end of the day, I think that many of us who used to work as a nonprofit space have a real advantage in being able to tell the story of where we're trying to get to.

[00:32:17] Tania: And I think for me, when I talk about my work, it's less about like, "Oh, yes, you are gonna get clients. Yes, you are gonna get podcasts, interviews. Yes, you're gonna do all those things." But for me, my big vision for my clients and the people that I support and stand for is that you're gonna break down the systematically limited beliefs that you've been Indoc, indoctri, indoctri--- What the hell? I can't say that.

[00:32:45] Jess: Indoctrinated?

[00:32:47] Tania: Yes. Yes, Yes. Yes. And just like you were talking with your GI doctor, we carry around these things our whole lives and don't realize we're bloated with them. I would say that... Okay, let me tell you a story. So when I recently launched, I asked a couple questions about what keeps them from showing up?

[00:33:10] Tania: And it was all a version of like, "I'm afraid to hit post. I'm afraid to get visible. I am afraid of what other people are gonna think about me. I don't think my opinions are smart enough, unique enough, professional enough, just enough." And that's not just something that shows up when we're trying to get visible on LinkedIn. That's just like a microcosm or a fractal of our whole life. And so if you could dismantle and like undo the training and conditioning that we have just been in... God, I'm gonna say that word again, that we have been indoctrinated.

[00:33:39] Jess: Indoctrinated?

[00:33:46] Tania: indoctrinated. I cannot say that word. That's hilarious. But to me, that is the big, deep specific transformation. It's not just about like getting clients on LinkedIn. It's about changing the way you live your life knowing that what society has told you you are. It's just a story, it's not real.

[00:34:07] Tania: And all the things that I just mentioned earlier about these imposter thoughts. Of course, we're gonna have imposter thoughts when we live in these intersectional systems that have been designed to make us feel a certain way and have been designed so that we are not seen in positions of leadership. And so like if that piece can be addressed. If you can find out that you've been allergic to almonds and bananas this whole time, think about how the rest of your life will change. And so for me, I like to really settle into that. That's what I lead from 'cuz that's the real transformation that I wanna see my clients have. Not just like, "Oh, we'll update your LinkedIn profile. Yes, we'll do that." But as a result, I want the big, deep, full, holistic transformation for you.

[00:34:54] Tania: And so I think that's why if we wanna say selling high ticket or whatever works because it's all about that high transformation experience. I don't know how to do low ticket. I really don't because I fall in love with my clients. I literally, I call them clientfriends, one word. Because once I've taken a peek at your soul and your story and your lived experience, I just can't not fall in love with you. And at that point, like I'm gonna introduce you to my personal contacts, and hype you up in all the rooms that I go into. And I'm never gonna put that on a sales page, but if that's who I am, it's just gonna be high transformation for me and it's just gotta be high ticket. Just gotta be.

[00:35:34] Jess: So that is a great transition into my next question because as I know your business as delivering this high impact, pack a big punch VIP day, moving into this more group coaching program that's a six month container, I'm curious if you've noticed that the buying customer is different. And what I mean by that is for example, I'm an activator, right? So I want the fastest, most efficient, one day intense, and then I wanna go execute. I'm not a huge process person, which is why group coaching programs for me are ineffective.

[00:36:17] Jess: So I'm just curious though, as you move, you've spent the last almost two years cultivating an audience with people who get this kind of pack-a-punch a day experience, and now you're going with still very high touch. I don't wanna confuse the two, but over a much longer period of time, right? One day, six months and I'm just curious, have that has adjusted your buyer? And if so, what are you doing to compensate in terms of your marketing? In terms of your visibility? In terms of your messaging?

[00:36:54] Tania: Yeah, that's such a good question. This is really like a real time conversation, you know what I mean? Because I'm getting ready to take my course and put it on Evergreen 'cuz I'm like, "I'm not trying to do any more live launches ever again. I'm done. One was not."

[00:37:11] Jess: Someone that loves live launching. No.

[00:37:16] Tania: That's so funny. Oh, this is what works for me. [overlapping]

[00:37:21] Cindy: This is a whole other conversation. I feel like we're gonna have to have you back and maybe we'll have a debate versus Evergreen because I'm kind of stuck in the middle right now. Anyways, this is a different conversation and a very worthwhile one. Talk to us about that process or the customer and how that might have changed.

[00:37:42] Tania: Yes. Yes, a hundred percent. I think it with Yes. Okay. Yes. So the person... I'm sorry, the customer has definitely changed. And you're right, with the VIP days, it's the person who wants to get in and out. They value time significantly more than money. They have something they're getting ready to launch like a book or a nonprofit campaign or they're getting ready to do this big partnership and they just need the stuff now. And then they're gonna run with it and be good to go.

[00:38:12] Tania: And that type of client tends to not have the same mindset issues that I just kind of like shared about earlier. I have found that the person that is best fit for the six month process, the mindset is really the piece. It's really that piece around like they know they wanna get visible. They are actually a great writers. They know what they wanna do and put out there, they just can't. They'll put something on LinkedIn and then they'll delete it right away. All of those different behaviors, they just don't really think that they're enough to post on LinkedIn. And I think that deep mindset work takes time.

[00:38:51] Tania: And so that's why I love the container or the... whatever, the spaciousness of being able to really dig deep and explore that. Because I think that the change that can happen in six months if you commit to getting like 1% more uncomfortable with each action of visibility is huge. I'm a big James Clear fan. I'm a big Atomic Habit like I quote it all the time. And so, I mean just imagine where you could be in six months based on today if you do deal with those mindset issues of getting visible.

[00:39:21] Tania: Now, if you have no problem getting visible and you're doing LinkedIn lives and you just don't have the time to get your that with so cool moments into content, then the VIP day would make sense for sure. But all of my marketing has really been geared towards the VIP day clients. So I'm having to do a little bit of a slow ship turn. I mean, yes and no, I've always talked about mindset 'cause it's what I'm really passionate about. But I am in real time thinking about how that message has to [inaudible]

[00:39:52] Cindy: We could talk for days. I don't wanna cut us off but we are running out of time. And because I definitely wanna ask one of our favorite questions, which is what are your confessions? What's one thing that... as just talked to the beginning, it looks like you got your shit together from the outside. What's one thing that you're working on or you wanna improve and develop?

[00:40:18] Tania: You know, I thank you for saying that. We all have our stuff and I think that I am really working on deeply settling into my innate strengths, needs, abilities, and preferences. And I'm IFJ, I'm deeply introverted. I would rather be frolicking in the woods, under the moon, pretty much doing anything.

[00:40:43] Tania: And so I've really had to think about, "Okay, how do I take a rest? How do I infuse sabbatical into my world? How do I manage my emotions when I'm like social selling in the dms, right? And holding this possibility with people when that can feel really intense." I think for me, I think it's about how do I make sure to like honor and tenderly take care of myself because that's what I'm about, right?

[00:41:15] Tania: And so earlier, when I talked about thought leadership, I don't love that term because I think thoughts are just thoughts. I think you have to be about it. I think you have to embody your values. I think you have to be like a walking manifestation of the vision that you're trying to create. And sometimes we get out of alignment because we're humans and because we're attracted to things because we are recovering from them.

[00:41:35] Tania: And so I often get out of alignment and start to get scared and don't get visible and you know what I mean? And I think that makes me relatable and I think if I'm gonna model and mentor that behavior for other people, I need to make sure I'm managing my energy, and my emotions, and my spirit and surrounding myself with coaches and loved ones and community that can help me do that.

[00:41:58] Jess: Well, you are doing it. My gosh. In the best way, I'm blown away, Impressed with you. You are such a light. You're doing such helpful work with so many people. Tania, where can our listeners be in touch if they want to follow you or work with you? What's the best way for people to get in your world?

[00:42:21] Tania: Yeah, LinkedIn is definitely the best way. LinkedIn is my playground. That's my place even though I'm lazy on LinkedIn, that's my spot in the world. So you can follow me there and then my website is lumosmarketing.co. And then I have a podcast called The Campfire Circle where I love to tell stories and just fully reimagine the ultimate space of leadership from a boardroom into a campfire circle. Yeah.

[00:42:45] Cindy: That's so beautiful. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for listeners for tuning in. We'll see you next time.

[00:42:54] Tania: Bye. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:42:59] Cindy: Thank you again for listening to The Confessions podcast for non-profit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.

[00:43:10] Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy so we can repost you.

[00:43:18] Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow non-profit culture consultant.

[00:43:23] Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcast so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

[00:43:29] Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

[00:43:36] Jess: And to our fellow non-profit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

[00:43:43] Cindy: See you next time.