In this episode of the Confessions podcast, Jon & Becky share their journey and intentions behind building their business We Are For Good. If you haven’t heard of We Are For Good you might be sleeping under a rock. These two (along with their amazing team) have exploded on the scene and are taking us behind their strategy, successes, and learnings.

Highlights:

1. Getting strategic on your long term goals and having the patience to build them 

2. How to work with partners and sponsors in a way that is aligned with your values and brings benefits to your community 

3. The importance of mental health for you as a business owner

Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

• The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek

• Slack

• Calendly

Connect with Jon & Becky:

• We Are For Good

• Jon’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanpmccoy/

• Jon’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonforgood_/?hl=en 

• Becky’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/becky-endicott/ 

• Becky’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/beckyforgood/?hl=en 

Find us online: Confessions with Jess and Cindy

Connect with Cindy:

Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/

The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/

Connect with Jess: 

Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/

Transcript

[00:00:00] Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.

[00:00:03] Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros, turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.

[00:00:11] Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch. We've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.

[00:00:20] Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six-figure mark, by pulling back the curtain.

[00:00:30] Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.

[00:00:51] Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside. Look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like.

[00:01:03] Basically we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has, and hasn't worked in their businesses.

[00:01:11] Cindy: Listen in, as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to building nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're gonna empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one. You ready?

[00:01:28] Jess: Let's go. We're so pumped, you've tuned into the Confessions podcast. Where we're pulling back the curtain on all things, nonprofit coaching and consulting. To keep things super fun, we're doing a giveaway to celebrate our launch!

[00:01:44] Cindy: Woohoo. We've rounded up our four favorite business goodies to help you build your business to enter. All you have to do is share your favorite episode on social media, tagging @outintheboons_ and @cindywagman.com_coaching.

[00:02:01] Jess: Or DM us a screenshot of your subscription, rating, or review.

[00:02:06] Cindy: The giveaway ends on September 30th. Good luck!

[00:02:11] Jess: Welcome back to the Confessions podcast. I think Cindy and I are both bursting out of our chairs for this conversation, with the one, the only famous Becky and Jon from, We Are For Good. Welcome to the podcast!

[00:02:28] Jon: Oh my gosh. We're hiding into our chairs.

[00:02:30] Becky: Total imposter syndrome bursting right now. But thank you.

[00:02:34] Jon: Yeah, we are so excited to be here though. Oh my gosh. Thanks for your invitation.

[00:02:38] Jess: You guys are famous!

[00:02:41] Cindy: And I love that you are one, you come together; you are a package.

[00:02:45] Jess: Package deal.

[00:02:46] Jon: I think it's because we're too scared to come by ourselves. Like honestly, like we—

[00:02:50] Becky: Yeah, let’s be honest about that.

[00:02:50] Jon: —Rearrange that things so we can go together in pairs. It's kind of strategic.

[00:02:55] Jess: Okay. You just said the word strategic. And I wanna just launch in, I was making my tea this morning and I was thinking about how you all have been on the scene for about two years in this business that we all know to be, We Are For Good.

[00:03:07] And I was like, is this strategic, or is this luck, or is this a combination of both? Because you guys hit the scene running and you just. I mean, everyone knows about you, whether it's our fellow nonprofit coaches and consultants, or fellow, just nonprofit organizations learning from you. I would really love for us to just start the conversation for anyone listening in who's thinking, especially about starting or launching their business, kind of the thought process or effort that went on behind the scenes, the timeline of which maybe that took. Because you guys just came out blazing in a really great way that I think would save so many headaches. If people kind of mimicked your process.

[00:03:57] Jon: Oh my gosh. I mean, I'm feeling imposter syndrome. You saying that, but thank you for that. I think we kinda stepped back and we were like, holy cow, like, I can't believe all this happened the way that it did. Because, I mean, our backstory, if you don't know, Becky and I, Becky hired me as our intern 20 years ago and I was a little graphic designer intern wearing a necktie, trying to impress her.

[00:04:17] And we stuck together as friends and we did higher ed for a few more years. And then we were in healthcare for the last decade. And it was in that time that I think we saw the power of grassroots movement. And juxtapose that and healthcare philanthropy is like the most antiquated system, you know? And we were just like stuck in this box, but big believers in philanthropy and saw a better way to do things.

[00:04:42] And I think we were kind of always trying to break that mold. And, you know, I'm an entrepreneurial-minded person. I have lots of random stories of different side businesses that we've tried, and started, and done. So I knew that we wanted, I wanted to do something next. And I had been slowly recruiting Becky along the way.

[00:04:57] And we thought we would just jump and be employee-giving consultants, which is a conversation for a different day. But it's like, we believed in the power of disruptive employee giving where it was not pressure-based. It was about community. It was about this coming together. And we, you know, had put together this formula that allowed us to teach at different conferences and stuff.

[00:05:15] And so it gave us this network. And I think a lot of people, probably listening, you know, that's how you kind of get clients. And we had had two clients that had reached out that wanted to hire us to come build that employee giving campaign model at their organizations. And so Becky and I were starting to put together the framework of like, we're gonna be consultants.

[00:05:30] We're gonna be these consultants that teach people this different way to do it. And we were having lunch at a sandwich shop and talking about it and we're like, what are we doing with our life? Like, we're about to sign up to like, fly?

[00:05:41] Becky: We're gonna travel like we're kids.

[00:05:43] Jon: Yeah. And just complicate our life. And we're like, something's gonna have to change.

[00:05:46] And I went back to the drawing board and thought, I know this kind of like heart and ethos that we wanna share, but how can we build this in a completely different way? And, you know, just poured into definitely to answer your question, Jess. Like we had a strategic plan. Like we definitely always come about this.

[00:06:07] Like we're, we don't have an agenda with relationships. Like truly, we just came on the scene and wanted to build friends. But we definitely had a plan of like, here's how we can see this kind of unfolding, you know? And here's how we wanna show up in the world because we knew all along. We would want to launch with just content.

[00:06:25] I mean, we were, you know, fundraisers in Oklahoma city with maybe an Oklahoma network, but we didn't, you know, we weren't on conference key noting stages and stuff like that. We didn't have this network of people across the country and, so we just knew that, okay, how do we stand up this idea to start building content that we own? That we could meet a lot of people that we could grow and share kind of our mindsets, but just do that at a ridiculous pace?

[00:06:56] And this is Becky and I's first disagreement, I would say. Right?

[00:06:55] Becky: Totally.

[00:06:56] Jon: Because I don't wanna just talk and take over B because, you know, I was like studying all the entrepreneurial stuff. And one of the big podcasts out there was Entrepreneur On Fire and it's still like a really popular show. And I was just struck by JLD story. If you haven't heard him, like go in like dig into his story, Because he's fascinating. He was like in commercial real estate, he had done the army. He didn't know what he wanted to do with his life. And he's like, I was driving to work and I was like, there needs to be somebody that has a podcast that every day you can listen to about a cool entrepreneur story. And he just started it and he did every day of the week.

[00:07:28] And I was like, you know what? We could do that. We love talking to people. We know how to build stories. We're kind of playing to our strengths. I'm a designer, Becky's a writer. We could pull this together. We could come at it at a faster pace than anybody's doing right now. And like the snowball, I think it could work.

[00:07:43] Like, you know, we like just talked about it, it could work. And we did have that belief about it, you know? So I don't know if you wanna jump in B, I feel like.

[00:07:51] Becky: Well, the, the disagreement was Jon wanted to do five episodes a week and I was like, I am crying uncle. Like, let's try three, let's try three. We give him five a week, twice a year when we do theme weeks and he's very happy. And, but then he's exhausted at the end and we're like, that's why we don't do it.

[00:08:06] Jon: I'm like, the biggest baby at the end of the week. I'm like, I'm sorry.

[00:08:09] Becky: Yeah. I, I just think it was a, I mean, let me give Jon most, if not all of the credit. Here you have someone who is so hardwired and curious, and Jon's mind is at another level. And I feel like people are seeing that because he is like the Jeff Bezos only kinder and more philanthropic. And, but I mean, he can see business scaling in a very big way. And for all you fundraisers out there, I mean, he had to cultivate me for three years before I said, okay, I think I will do this.

[00:08:42] Because I had a scarcity mindset about, I don't see myself in that way. I don't understand my point of view. And so yes, to answer the longest answer to your question, it was strategic, but it was a whole lot of luck. And our, and we hit on August of 2020 when everything was locked down. Everything was very divisive in the country and we just hit it hard with kindness, openness.

[00:09:07] And if you wanna know our strategy for the first year, it was make as many friends as possible, put out incredible content and don't ask anybody for anything other than your shares and your friendship. And that was literally our business model for the first year before we actually monetized really anything.

[00:09:25] Cindy: I love kinda just that. I love that your business strategies make friends like, yes, we, that is so paramount, but we forget it. Sorry, Jon, go ahead.

[00:09:35] Jon: No, I mean, I think it is because if you look at our business plan, it's funny to look back on now, first it was 32 pages, like who in the world—

[00:09:42] Becky: Oh, geez.

[00:09:42] Jon: Types a 32 page with graphics and diagrams?

[00:09:42] Becky: God bless the people who read it.

[00:09:47] Jon: But I think that process, like, I don't think it needs to be 30 pages, but I think that process validated in my head. And, and it gave us like a path and gave us kind of like a true north to be like, okay. This is gonna be a long ride. And I, I cannot find this for the life of me, but I listened to an interview with Lewis Howes talking about the power of podcasting several years ago.

[00:10:09] And he is like, if you don't commit to doing this for three years, don't plan on this, turning into anything. And that's always been in the back of my head that I'm like, okay, we're not saying we're gonna do this forever, but we have to show up with enough intention to give it the runway, to do what it does. Because we are basing and trying to grow off one-to-one relationships that just, hopefully, people share.

[00:10:30] And over now we can speak to two years. It does feel like for a while now, things are happening that we just can't even trace back. And it's like mind-blowing because of the ability that what scaling does over time, you know? And just the power of the ripple and the power of friendship and kindness and all that.

[00:10:48] Cindy: I, I wanna just say, like, I think that authenticity and the, you know, building connections and the curiosity that comes from both of you is felt so much by the community. I wanna ask you how, how it's going and specifically, you know, talk to us about your business model today. And where does your revenue come from?

[00:11:12] What does, what is that whole what's the whole, cause I think we, some people know different parts of your business, but let's dig into the, the details.

[00:11:23] Becky: Okay. I'm gonna take the first half you get the revenue, Jon.

[00:11:26] Jon: Okay.

[00:11:26] Becky: Did you see how I just pitched that off? This is what you do and you're friends for 20 years.

[00:11:30] Jon: Either one of us are great. So here we go.

[00:11:33] Becky: I think just like where the business is right now is we're like figuring out who we wanna be when we grow up. And about a year ago, we realized that we accidentally built a media company. And while we understood that the podcast was gonna be the front door to our company.

[00:11:49] That was the way people were going to come in. We wanted to move them through the front door, into different ecosystems that could be helpful to them. You know, whether that's in the social media space, we have a physical comm— I say physical, we want it to be physical; it would be amazing.

[00:12:04] We have a digital community. It's weareforgoodcommunity.com of, you know, 800 plus individuals and growing by leaps and bounds these days. We're not, again, we can't track where people are coming from. But it's how do you take the conversation and the education to different places. Because not everybody hangs out in the same place, not everybody consumes content in the same way, and we want it to be democratized and socialized and as inclusive as humanly possible, because we think that when people are safe, when they feel seen, known and valued that belonging is gonna help them shine to their fullest potential.

[00:12:41] That will translate to their mission shining to their personal life, getting better. And it means we're gonna have to hit some things that are hard. You know, we hit mental health. It's a huge umbrella of our, of our company because we've gone through it, you know, and I I've very publicly shared my mental health, like my nervous breakdown story.

[00:12:59] And it is shocking to me how often I get letters, and emails. I got an Instagram, like voicemails over the weekend of somebody telling me they were in exactly the same spot I was when I was at my lowest. And so really we're taking all of that. We're like, how do we just put it on fire? Like, I will tell you, you saying everybody knows us.

[00:13:21] I'm like, do they? I don't know. Like, wow. Like we don't know that that's so humbling. But we just know that we need to be in many spaces, but we can't do everything. And we're a startup and we have four and a half people that work for our company. And yeah, we, we're realizing that the podcast space is definitely our space, but we wanna be a marketplace for creators.

[00:13:45] We wanna be about upskilling. We think professional development in the sector is woefully inadequate and needs to be modernized and innovated. And we don't think we have all the answers. In fact, we don't think we have many of the answers, which is why we think community baked into the entire process is going to be the secret sauce. So, Jon, do you have anything you wanna add to that?

[00:14:08] Jon: I mean, my heart's full. I could talk about the money aspect of it because. I mean, I'll say I'm coming at this whole business from a really scarce money place and it shows up. And especially if you're in a partnership like we are, it comes up a lot because it's like something that I've personally had to work through.

[00:14:26] And my family situa— our family situations are just different. And so it's just more, it's such a poignant thing. And so when we launched, we knew that the podcast was not gonna make money for, I don't know, years, you know? We didn't know how fast it would grow. And so we jumped with aligning clients. It's on the background.

[00:14:46] And so that's how we got started with Bootstrapping. I mean, Becky's family put in a little bit of money to start, but mostly we were churning through working hours. I mean, 60, 70, 80 hours that first year. And I don't think that's over-subscribed. I think that's truth of what was happening.

[00:14:58] Becky: Maybe more. Yeah.

[00:14:58] Jon: Maybe more. Because we were doing the full-time client work and we were showing up as if this was a media company on day one, you know? But that, so that paid the bills and we've always been able to pay ourself because of that. And we immediately, you know, when we jumped, we hired Julie who, if you know, Julie is family to us. She's a partner we've given her equity of the company at two different intervals now because she's so integral and has changed the trajectory of our business.

[00:15:31] Becky: The smartest, most connected 26-year-old you will ever meet in your life. You should totally go find her LinkedIn. So.

[00:15:38] Jon: Totally. Um, but let me just say, like, that is a scary move. And I, people will tell me, I mean, I've talked to friends that are consultants are like, you know, it's just envious to see, like, y'all have a team because you have people, you know, you're not in a loan. And I feel that, but I do feel like we had intensity right away.

[00:15:56] Cuz we had payroll, like that was real payroll, like really fast because you know, my wife stays at home with our kids. So it was like, we have to meet payroll like this month to be able to do that. But it gives, I guess it made us show up at a different level and it wouldn't have been possible if we wouldn't hire.

[00:16:12] And I've now feeling that and we're having to like recoach me specifically, Becky, I feel like has an easier time with this. But that opens up the door to the next piece. So we Bootstrapped for the first year and I think around the episode 70-ish mark, we landed our first sponsor. And that was huge. I mean, it felt like I can't believe this is actually happening.

[00:16:31] And I wanna say, do you remember the number? I feel bad. I don't remember what the number was at that time, Becky, but. It was a few thousand.

[00:16:37] Becky: Like how many downloads? Oh yeah. The dollar amount?

[00:16:40] Jon: We were probably at like three thousand downloads a month or something like that. I don't know. I can maybe put this in the show notes, it's important.

[00:16:50] Becky: Sorry, editor.

[00:16:50] Jon: Yeah. Like, to us, it seemed like a lot. And now in retrospect, and like, man, we were so early in the journey. So the people that believed they weren't believing, and they've told us this now in that the podcast downloads were the thing they caught onto the vision, they caught onto that, it's more than a podcast.

[00:17:05] And so we try to talk about it like that. Like whatever you're building, give yourself the room to show that is something beyond that thing. Jess doesn't just have that event that gathers those people. Like that's freaking cool that she does that, but they're listening to the replays of it all year and they're telling their friends and she has all these emails and she has all these ways that she shows up. And that's what we try to talk about our partnerships as too. So that was allowing us to get into sponsorship.

[00:17:31] Becky: Can I add one thing about sponsorship? When we Googled, how much should we charge for a sponsorship on our podcast? It's terrifying.

[00:17:40] Jon: Don't listen to Google.

[00:18:07] Becky: And I will say, do not listen to Google. At all. I mean, I think what we were supposed to be pitching based on our downloads, you know, per the Google algorithm was like a third of what we asked for. And we stood up and said, we think we have more value than the base. And we're gonna, and just like you do, when you pitch to, you know, a major gift donor, it's like, I think the value of this is X and we're just gonna see what the market will bear.

[00:18:07] And the market has never told us no. And we up our rates and, and I, I just wanna throw that out there to anyone who's trying to monetize something. And you're looking for what the base is, which is great. We should always look around and test what our friends are doing and what's working. But I also think, understand the value and know the story of your value that you can pitch to someone because if they see it, they will pay it.

[00:18:32] Jon: Especially everyone listening here, we are so niche. It's like we are gathering a very specific type of person. It's like, that is worth way more than what Google is telling you, what Kleenex should buy an ad for on your podcast or something like that. So that was a big transition point when we decided, okay, we're gonna stop the one-on-one consulting.

[00:18:51] We're gonna move to podcast sponsorship. But also in that time is when our PRO streaming platform launched, which was always part of our plan from the beginning. Luckily we were saved by the branding, FoPod in our business plan, Because it was gonna be called, We Are For Good On Demand, which would've been, God, which would've been horrible.

[00:19:09] Becky: Could you imagine?

[00:19:10] Jon: So imagine if we would've come out with the like, tonedeaf, Good on Demand.

[00:19:15] Jon: So it's now called PRO and that has been like slow. But it's like this long play for us that we, we're gonna keep adding value, but that's like a chunk of our revenue, the sponsorships, a chunk of our revenue and then just like partnerships that we're doing. And we're finding, you know, Not only do we like, love interviewing and connecting people, but we love helping other people do that.

[00:19:37] And so we've partnered at conferences to help build out their speaker panel. And now Becky and I are speaking at a conference next month where we're actually getting paid to speak on stage. You know, which is kind of opening up a whole different revenue stream too. But it's kind of like the beginning of it.

[00:19:51] Like, I mean, we have a lot of revenue channels that are coming on in the future and Becky teased it with this marketplace because we see the future as creators and like, how can we be a catalyst to help people find their people and grow their own influence? And we wanna be part of that.

[00:20:07] Jess: I have so many questions to spur off into, and that was really, really helpful. I wanna dive more into this next phase in the media company. I wanna dive into what it's been like growing your membership, which you just said is slow. But before we do that, I'd love to talk more, just a little bit, bit deeper on these partnerships, these sponsorships. Cindy and I have been very vocal around what it's like to work with, especially some of these nonprofit tech companies.

[00:20:39] Cindy: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:40] Jess: I think you all have executed and partnered up really, really well, thoughtfully, intentionally. And it sounds like from what you just said, it's been a positive result on, on the financial side of things. But I just know from like my personal experience that it can feel really what's the word?

[00:21:03] Becky: Icky.

[00:21:05] Jess: Sticky. Yeah. Especially I think as a female entrepreneur, who's pitching basically exclusively tech bros, like tech men, people that are just a different breed.

[00:21:19] And I'm just curious how you all have been able to just match-make-up so well. And if that has been your experience or how you've somehow been able to like block yourself off from that. Because I think everyone out there listening is like, yeah, I have this great product. I know it brings value. I'd love to partner up in a way, but every time I reach out, it seems that people only want access to my email list or access to my free content. And when I try and pitch them something else, I get a resounding no. And so I'm just curious how you've been able to just so masterfully navigate partnerships, especially with those types of companies.

[00:22:04] Becky: Well, one we're still figuring it out.

[00:22:07] Jon: Yeah.

[00:22:07] Becky: Two, I'm gonna address the elephant in the room. Like, it is a backwards power dynamic working with like the tech companies and I, to me, it mirrors exactly what I felt when I was working in nonprofit. And I always say, it's Oliver. You know, it's the little orphan boy coming with his bowl up to the tech company or to the major gift owner saying, please, sir, may I have some more?

[00:22:31 And we teach so much on the podcast about this new evolution of partnerships that's building right now. And it's about flipping those power dynamics completely on its head and saying, you know what? We're, we have something of value that you need, and we position it differently. I also think that something that we did was when we started our company, we started with our core values.

[00:22:55] And we were like, these are the things that we know to be true about ourselves. And if somebody doesn't align with all eight of them, then they're probably not our people. And that's okay, like go into the world and go do your thing. But we're looking specifically for our people. So when we pitch to people, you know, whether we wanna have a partnership, one, we try to be as generous as we can.

[00:23:18] You know, before, if we're curious, we're gonna look at their content, we're gonna start following their people on LinkedIn. If we like it, we might fold some of it into our newsletter. We'll tag them or show them that we're being generous by sharing those things. But we also go into partnerships like vetting.

[00:23:35] I mean them like a friend. And it's like, if we don't think those core values line up, if we are looking at the way they do business or they treat their employees and it's not the way that we would operate, they're probably not a great partner for us. And so we go in with really try to have an abundance mindset and say, do not look at this as a podcast sponsorship.

[00:23:59] That would be way too small thinking it. You need to expand to see how we can help leverage what you're trying to accomplish with what we're trying to accomplish. You're bringing tech, you're bringing expertise, you're bringing automation, we're bringing community. We can teach it. We bring a lot of trust and I'll tell you, like we've had conversations where we thought we were gonna partner with somebody and we would, they would push back. And we would say, Nope, like the money is not worth it. And we are willing to walk away, which is a really big shift.

[00:24:14] Jon: Being an enneagram nine over here. It makes my skin crawl.

[00:24:16] Becky: Oh my gosh. Poor Jon, the peacemaker.

[00:24:33] Jon: It makes my skin crawl of that, but.

[00:24:35] Becky: But we do.

[00:24:37] Jon: Yeah. And it feels really good to do that.

[00:24:39] Becky: It feels good for us. And, but we also say before we rep you, we wanna see your product. Because we wanna make sure that what you're selling is something that we understand and we fundamentally believe is going to help the sector.

[00:24:52] And so now we're like a year and a half, a year into sponsorship? A year and a half. And it's like, now we find that those people are people are coming to us. And honestly, we're, we're feeling like the TechPlay, maybe the 1.0 of We Are For Good. Because we're looking to like go to major brands and figure out how can we partner with major brands to get the word out in a global level, because that is literally what we're telling our people they need to be doing with.

[00:25:21] Jon: And they're customers too, you know?

[00:25:23] Becky: Yeah.

[00:25:23] Jon: I mean like.

[00:25:24] Becky: Yeah, they're one of our customer avatars, is one of these sponsors is our fourth customer avatar.

[00:25:33] Jess: Okay. We are back for another round of Rapid Fire questions. Thanks for playing, Becky and Jon.

[00:25:39] Becky: I love it.

[00:25:41] Jon: Excited.

[00:25:41] Jess: First, first step. First thing that comes to your mind is, what is a dream brand partner that you would love to work with?

[00:25:51] Jon: I feel like I should know this off the top of my head.

[00:25:54] Becky: You should know this off the top of your head.

[00:25:56] Jess: You can have different ones.

[00:25:59] Jon: Do you have somebody B?

[00:26:08] Jess: Manifest.

[00:26:11] Becky: I'll put this one out here. Which you can edit part of this away because we're actually gonna pitch this person for mental health week. We, I would really love to connect with Unilever. They are, you think of Unilever and you think of, like, your soaps and all this stuff in your bathroom, but they are a massive player in mental health.

[00:26:37] And what they do for their employees is absolutely aspirational. They have an employee wellness program called Lamplighter and it focuses on the physical and the mental health of the employees. And it brings just, I don't know, at the local, these programs to the local level, working with occupational health and human resources and supply chains.

[00:26:58] And I think that they just did a really cool pilot program on mental health and they had 97% participation from their base and it changed the way that they looked at how they address mental health in the workplace. And I just think that they would be the coolest sponsor to come into We Are For Good.

[00:27:20] Jess: Love it. Jon, any rapid other ones or are you going with you?

[00:27:24] Jon: I really like blank. Yeah. I was just a quick-

[00:27:26] Becky: I thought you were gonna say Apple, that's like your—

[00:27:29] Jon: I should have.

[00:27:29] Becky: That’s like your dream, like. design tech, something, but maybe not. I'm not gonna tell you what to do.

[00:27:37] Jess: Okay. Next question. What is the best book you've read or consumed related to, you know, boosting up your business?

[00:27:47] Jon: Ooh, okay. Two that I really love is The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek. I feel like it's really plays into this long game philosophy and just kinda like all of us working together, it just zooms out. It's kinda the impact uprising that we talk about. But I'll say This is Marketing by Seth Godin or Godin.

[00:28:06] Becky: Okay, I’ll pick a different one.

[00:28:08] Jon: Changed my world. Okay, I think both of those together have really shifted my mindsets.

[00:28:15] Becky: I mean, I was gonna say Purple Cow by Seth Godin, I mean, he is just so revolutionary in like creative advertising and he wants less clutter and I just think the purity of how he threads empathy into storytelling is very, very interesting, but I'll give you another one that I think is really unorthodox.

[00:28:39] I love Humans of New York. So Brandon Stanton has a great book, several books that are Humans of New York, you know, Humans of the World. And what I learn about storytelling in those books from one sentence or from one word is extremely powerful to me, to the way that I think about how we tell story in our business.

[00:29:01] Jess: Agreed. I'm a big Humans of New York fan, definitely. And last question, who is a business thought leader or icon that you really admire, respect, and look towards?

[00:29:15] Jon: I mean, I feel self-serving saying this Because she's now such a dear friend, but I would say Kishshana Palmer, like I like had so much respect for her, just loved her. And then when we get to meet her in person, I'm just, like, her authenticity and how she just shows up for her family and for people in her life and in the world, like I'm just like the hugest fan of her. And every time she talks, you know, we've had some repeat guests on the podcast, but when she talks, I'm like, you are so brilliant, my friend. And like, she has no prep.

[00:29:47] I mean, she's prepping, but she has no, like, cue cards or something like that. And I'm just so inspired by her. I love her as a human and I love how she's pushing all of us collectively as a leader.

[00:29:59] Jess: We couldn't agree more.

[00:30:01] Becky: Yeah. I mean, you probably took that one right out from under me, but if I, there's so many, to be honest. I mean, if I were gonna pick somebody that we've interviewed on the podcast that I follow and hang on every single one of her words, it's Abby Falik. And she was formally the founder of Global Citizen Year, but here is a woman who is so kind to her core. She is so evolved in the way that she thinks about things.

[00:30:31] And she's built this unbelievable nonprofit. That was the number one place to work, you know, in the country, she has every dreamy philanthropist pouring into her organization. And yet she took how long did she take off? She took these long sabbatical.

[00:30:50] Jon: 6 months.

[00:30:51] Becky: She took a sabbatical in the middle of it, and like, she will go off into the woods for a week and not talk to anyone and just think, and be quiet and be creative.

[00:31:00] And this time she came back and said, I think it's my time to leave. And I think I'm gonna hand this organization off to somebody else. And I think I'm gonna go do something else. And now, she's with Emerson Collective, which is just like an amazing organization funded by Steve Jobs's wife.

[00:31:19] You know, it's powering social impact into the world and she's just so quiet and humble and steady and visionary and what she did to take on the leadership crisis by starting with high school students is just a great story. Encourage anyone to go check her out.

[00:31:36] Jess: You're amazing. Thanks for playing our Rapid Fire round.

[00:31:40] Becky: I don’t feel like that was rapid, but thank you.

[00:31:33] Jon: Of course we're gonna log wind your Rapid Fire.

[00:31:45] Becky: Nothing is short with us.

[00:31:51] Jon: I was gonna say, like, without mentioning names, like there was one specific situation when we were getting, pro, launched off the ground. And we're trying to, I mean, if you've taken a look at the platform, we spent a lot of investment to like, make that production happen.

[00:32:07] Like it's, it went outside of our capabilities, which we've been riding our coattails of what we could do in-house. This was the first project that was like, we have got to like hire people to be able to produce the level of content we wanted. And it basically drained our bank account. Like at the time, you know. Like, it was, it was a huge undertaking.

[00:32:24] Becky: And broke us kind of mentally as human beings for a couple weeks, if we're being honest.

[00:32:28] Jon: For sure. So it was a risk on all those things, but we knew, are people even gonna buy this too? So we wanted to make it accessible and democratic. So our ask with that was scholarships, which I will say has been the easiest, easiest in quotation marks conversations to have and sponsorships to have. Because, it just kind of positioned it a different way and it allowed people to pay us what needed to be paid, to access the product without putting the onus on the customer in the beginning.

[00:32:59] And I'll say we were recording somebody and it was gonna be a really big investment, which was gonna help us cushion that. And literally at the last moment, and we've shared every one of our plans, every one of our speakers, every one of our details. At the last minute, they were like, send an email from not even the person we were talking to somebody on the team saying we're not gonna be involved, like good luck.

[00:33:21] Becky: And kind of making us think, but we love the idea we might try to make a version of that. And it was just like, you gotta be kind, you know, when you're kind and trusting, sometimes it might come back to bite you.

[00:33:24] Jon: Yeah. So that was a low moment and trying to figure out how professionally to respond and personally to respond. But I think that's a reality and that's the hard reality of why I feel all the time. And I feel like talking and coaching fellow creatives on this call, it's like, how can we build pieces that we own? Like, what you're doing has so much value, like protect that, you know. Like we don't need to, we give away a lot of stuff, but we're also trying to protect some of the stuff that we're creating, because it's an asset, you know?

[00:34:05] And we shouldn't just give it all away for free when these companies need to come in and, like, help support us. But so I just, I tell that story because that's, that's been part of our story too. And we had to like, just pick up and make it work. And we got really low. I would say, I mean, financially and just mentally after that happened.

[00:34:25] Cindy: Ooh. That is painful even to listen to. And I know we've all experienced stuff like that, so it hurts every time. I wanna ask you, because I think what you're really, you're good at so many things, but one of the things I've noticed is that your partnerships with your sponsors are not just your typical 30 or 60-second podcast ad.

[00:34:50] So can you tell us a little bit about what your finding is that sweet spot of win-win where all the things you've talked about, your values, their values, and everyone's goals come together to do things that are not necessarily out of the box?

[00:35:09] Becky: I love that you asked this question, Cindy. Because I mean, when we started looking at sponsorships, you know us, we wanna disrupt everything. We wanna change everything. We want everything to be unexpected and nuanced and different. And we were like, what if we don't do ads like traditional ads? Because we're all used to hitting that 30 second, like let's fast forward past them. And so we're like, okay, what do we do well? Well we know we story tell well, and we're like, what if we story tell these ads a little bit?

[00:35:38] And I think about like the first one we ever did our first partnership. Like with, was with ThankView and they sponsored Kindness Week. And if you don't know, ThankView, it's just a great digital video platform and they're great friends. We love JD Beebe, the founder, and we used the platform when we were in a nonprofit.

[00:35:57] And so we decided to put Kindness Week on the week of the election in 2020. Because we thought, oh, that's gonna be a heavy week. Let's bring some lift and let's just tell five really great stories. And so we pitched our vision to ThankView and said, what kind of stories could we tell with you through the lens of what you're gonna do, what your product is?

[00:36:19] And they were so, and we just built, co-built this idea where they were like, Hey, we wanna get videos of all of our employees talking about, we gave every employee a thousand dollars to give away to their favorite nonprofit. And, and after the, the murder of George Floyd, that was our response to how we're gonna come out and push good into the world.

[00:36:38] So they had all of their employees, I would say how many, like 10 or 12? We got, we got several examples. We picked five, tell us where they made their gift and why they made their gift there and what that meant to them working at this company. And it was so much less about the product and everybody stayed, Because they were like, oh.

[00:36:58] This random school in Oakland got all new tech support because they're inner city they're title nine. They're not gonna have that, but they're helping entrepreneurs and people that wanna go into STEM with this thousand dollars. That's a great story that we wanna tell, and it really speaks to the culture of ThankView.

[00:37:14] So it's really about a co-build, it's about how do you tell a really good story with what the product does or what the service does. Because that's what nonprofits are wanting to know. You know, like if I, if I start looking into digital ads, what does it mean? And how do I use it? And who's used it well, what's a case study? And that's really how we try to frame a lot of them.

[00:37:35] And we're super cheeky and the ads we like to tell them in our voice, we like to talk very conversationally. And I'll just tell you, I got an ad from a new sponsor. That's coming into our community next month. And they had listened to so many episodes when they wrote their ad. It was like, literally, like I had written it. And I told them like, you get us and the people who are your rabid fans, and they really wanna connect with their culture.

[00:38:00] Like they're starting to reflect that back and it's just like the coolest thing ever. So please like (inaudible) the sponsorship, if that's an opportunity. Anything to add, Jon?

[00:38:14] Jon: I'll say like, I'll highlight Virtuous because we worked with them really closely this year. And their team became like an extension of our team because they really opened it up to say, we want to co-build something with you. And I feel like if you can have that, that was not an overnight relationship. You know, it was like a lot of small conversations and maybe people wouldn't believe if I say this, but when Gabe came on the podcast for the first time, I told him this now, but the morning that he was recording, I saw it was on our slate.

[00:38:46] And it's pretty typical that I'm like last minute, like cramming, because we're just this startup hustle. And I'm like, oh, we're having another, like tech white guy who started a company. Like, is this really what we're talking? Is this the most important thing that we need to talk about today? You know? And I kind of came into that conversation like that.

[00:39:03] And when he started talking, I'm like, you know what, what he like is fighting for in the world is actually what we call impact uprising. You know, like he wants to activate the base, which is what we jumped to start this. And it's like that conversation I felt and I was like, okay, I feel guilty because I made a snap judgment.

[00:39:21] Okay. I assume made some assumptions that weren't necessarily true. And he has, you know, from that conversation and kind of our, you know, that happened from that podcast. He was like, you've gotta meet some of my team, Because I feel like y'all would like value align. And it was so nice from that. Like we didn't even ask for that introduction, but we had a great conversation.

[00:39:41] We were connected. We had good time together and we met their partnerships person. We met their marketing person and that call was literally just like, Hey, what's going on? Like how do you see the world? What are you working on? And again, we didn't even have an end game in mind. I think we were truly just trying to be helpful and trying to get to know people-

[00:39:57] Becky: Cultivation, everything is aligned, I'm telling you.

[00:40:01] Jon: Absolutely. And they were one of the first sponsors that came on, but they approached us. We didn't even ask them to consider sponsoring. They said, you know, is this something y'all ready for? But it's always been like a co-build with them. And I think that's kind of the goal, you know, of this is that when they were saying, Hey, we're looking at putting together a conference, we love, you know, the curation that y'all do, what would you wanna see in that?

[00:40:26] And so we were able to come to the table, literally with a blank slate to stack the panels with the people we wanted to talk, the topics we wanted to talk about, the platform to literally talk about anything. And that was the result.

[00:40:38] Becky: So great. I love going there.

[00:40:39] Jon: So we went there, learned lots of different topics and we were able to lift a lot of people, amplify a lot of voices that we were so excited to lift. And that's what I think it could look like on the sweet spot. You know, it's like we were doing what's a core capability for us and it was really complimenting what they were doing, but it's like, we just knew each other on that level. Like we were able to kind of dream for a long time and then be like, oh, this actually alignment feels right.

[00:41:04] And so it's hard to like prescribe it. It's hard to be like, how do you actually make that happen other than genuinely try to help people and like, just get to know them and understand what their goals are and then where there's overlap. The more specific we can say, this is what it could be. Then it's easy for people to say yes or no. It's when we're abstract. I think it's harder to get yes on that.

[00:41:24] Jess: Totally. This is so helpful. Just like kind of peeking inside your brain. Talk about pulling back the curtain on how you think about partnerships, develop partnerships, pitch partnerships, just, it's just really, really helpful. And I think that the folks listening in are going to just get so much out of now how they can apply this to their business.

[00:41:45] I'd love to switch towards PRO and what building this. I wanna say something more than audience, but this community has been like, because you mentioned a few minutes back, how you've made quite the investment in getting it off the ground. And I think that it's often underestimated how much work and effort and time goes into building a membership.

[00:42:19] I just would love to hear any thoughts, opinions, lessons learned, mistakes that you would do over. Is it working for you? Like, you know, all the things because I know that people have ambitions around creating memberships for their own audiences and they have no idea what goes into actually executing on that.

[00:42:47] Jon: Yes, all the things. I mean, I can predict what is in, if you're listening to this podcast, what else is in your podcast queue? You're listening to Amy Porterfield type people or James Wedmore, or these people, Jenna Kutcher that have built these monstrous businesses off courses. And I think that's probably what piqued my interest of just knowing the power of recurring revenue.

[00:43:08] Even on the philanthropy side that I'm like, this has to be a cornerstone of our business. If we're trying to activate grassroots people, like how do we create a membership that people would wanna be a part of? And so our angle of it was, you know, let's create this kind of next level of content that's not available anywhere else.

[00:43:27] And so that was our original kind of plan. And we had the ability for the podcast to vet, who's saying something really disruptive that could really, you know, deliver it really in an interesting way. But I'll say, I mean, we built it in a way that we thought this was gonna be the solution. And we thought that just getting it all ready and doing all the steps and writing all the emails and the graphics and you know, all the things that you think, okay, launch day, all of our problems are gonna be solved because we've been working on PRO.

[00:43:55] We have been dedicating our life to getting PRO ready that we're gonna flip the switch. And it was like the most beautiful party the day that it went live, you know, like it was so much activity of the amount of, of generosity from this entire community that surrounded it and championed it and was so excited about it.

[00:44:12] But in a tangible sense, it did not translate into like a lot of subscribers in a quick way. It was it, we could have like, been like, okay, throwing up my hands. Like this is not working, you know, because our investment was so great. And just putting real terms around it, we spent $35,000 to pull off production for that event.

[00:44:35] And I mean, I'm paying. I mean, we're not even paying ourselves, like barely, we're barely paying ourselves at this point. Right. And it's kind of like, I knew better Because I've listened and I've been the student of those people. I name off for a long time. I knew better than that, but we were so tired that we're like, if we just get it launched, I'm sure it's just gonna work.

[00:44:55] Like something magic's just gonna work. This is different. This community's different. It's not like it's gonna take a lot of work. It's gonna take a lot of work. So how can you build it in a way that you're not so depleted at the launch that you can pour into it?

[00:45:10] Because I look back now, like hindsight's 2020, I would've done something differently. Would it maybe sequence things differently? I don't regret doing it at all because the people that we gathered in Dallas have not only become just like dearest friends, but I think it gave them a lot of confidence and a lot of belief in their own platform.

[00:45:28] And it gave us just a vision of like, man, this is the type of level investment that this sector deserves. And I wanna keep doing that. But, the actual business model of it, we, we're still like retooling. And so a year later I had this epiphany, literally I was up by myself at like one or two in the morning and I slacked this to the teams.

[00:45:46] So you can read it the next day, but I'm like, you know, that 35,000, like we've made it back now. And it's only been a year. I'm like any other business that would just break even in a year is not bad. Like, why have I like viewed this as a loss or something, you know, between us friends, just because internally it hasn't done, it hasn't taken care of all of the bills and we're able to hire and grow and all this stuff, but I'm like, you know what?

[00:46:15] It's worked. There's a lot of people in it. And there's a lot of people that are sharing about it and it gave us a huge platform and like, it's the one of it, you know? And so we made the decision this summer, and this was one of the seminal conversations I think of Becky in my relationship in this business is like it's time like we have gotta push ourselves to invest in adding to our team because we are maxed. Like, if we're gonna grow, we have to put new energy into these things. Like, I think the vessels are there, they just need energy. And so it's been so fun. Like we added our chief of staff, Abby, and she is leading like the reimagining of next-generation PRO and just the energy she's putting in it.

[00:46:57] It's like this runway of like, okay, we did all this for a year. We have all these two years of podcast. Now we're putting new energy into it. Like, we're gonna figure it out. I don't know how long it's gonna take, but we're gonna keep retooling things and try to just create it around value created around community and like figure it out.

[00:47:12] And so we're, I will say mindset shift, how we're looking at it is, it's less of a product and more of like a premium experience. If you value what we do, this is the premium experience for that. So it's gonna be extra things or extra access or extra whatever to the ecosystem. And that allows us to kind of also know that we can stand up different revenue channels and start to sync them together.

[00:47:35] So we're launching a job board really soon. And because we are always posting jobs for like, we should actually have a job board, right. Because we're trying to get people in the industry. So that is something like PRO members are gonna have access to be able to post jobs for free. So that's something that other people will have to pay for, but that's gonna be another access.

[00:47:51] Jon: So we're looking overtime, how do we add value to this proposition? And just put more and more tentacles into it. So it becomes this really irresistible offer, but we have no idea at the same time.

[00:48:01] Becky: We're just trying stuff. Let's be honest.

[00:48:03] Jon: We invested in a course. So we bought Stu McLaren, specifically his membership course, and that was Abby's one assignment this summer, like dive into that course and like, let's learn because let's quit trying to us just think what is the right thing?

[00:48:17] And like, let's follow some advice to someone that has done this, you know, so we're trying to make some changes with that.

[00:48:22] Jess: Love paying the fast pass. Definitely.

[00:48:25] Becky: Definitely.

[00:48:25] Cindy: Wholeheartedly agree.

[00:48:28] Cindy: To wrap up, one of our favorite questions is because this podcast is called Confessions, what's one thing that you like give us a confession. One thing that you kind of wish you were doing better, or, you know, the thing that's like the cobbler's children's shoes. You're like, we're really good at giving this advice, but we're not so great at doing it ourselves. Share, dish the dirt.

[00:48:58] Jon: This is not fair. Yeah. Go for it.

[00:48:59] Becky: I'm gonna tattle on myself first. So that'll give you some time to think about it, but, you know, I've been very open about my mental health journey. And I very much believe in balance and self-affirmation and taking care of yourself and self-care, and also, so you can take care of your people and the things that you care about.

[00:49:22] And I will just tell you, it has been extremely difficult for me to tow that boundary the last two years. You know, part of our story we didn't share at the beginning is that our original business model had like a big investment. It is initially from an angel investor or from like VC or something like that venture capitalist.

[00:49:41] And when we sat down with one of our friends, who's a CPA, he was like, you're gonna have to probably give this person about 20% of your company if you're gonna ask for this. And Jon and I literally looked at each other in that meeting and did a 180 and said, Uhuh, this has gotta be so pure. This community has got, we've got to keep the tenants and the culture and the values and the ethos of it.

[00:50:05] We can't hand that off. And so we decided to take all those extra clients on, and it was like 80 to 90 hours a week for, you know, almost a year and a half. And there's just no way to create boundaries with your life. And I have two young daughters, you know, I had to work really hard to have them in this world.

[00:50:24] You know, we're also very open about our infertility story and I didn't wanna be the mom that just built, helped to kind of move the world and the way I wanted it to be for them to roam around as good humans, I needed to be a hands-on mom. So I am still working through how do I create boundaries and business, because right now everything feels like so impossible. Like we have so many opportunities in front of us and I wanna jump at all of them. And Jon and I struggle with where do we jump and grab all the shiny objects. And the reality is that Jon has an incredible family with his wife, Candace and their four kids. I am very close with my family and my two kids.

[00:51:06] And that will always be our number one priority. And so I am still trying to dig into the, I do therapy every single week. I try to put exercise in, I'm trying to drink my water right now. And I don't do that well every day, you know, every day and poor Jon, I'm an Enneagram 2. So when I get stressed, I'm like a hard eight.

[00:51:26] If you know the Enneagram, I'm challenger, I'm cranky, I'm angry, I'm pushy, I'm intense. And so he gets a lot of that from me and has been really gracious, but it's just kind of a journey that I'm on that I'm confessing, everybody has to work on. And the thing that's gotten me through it is having a group of people around me that uplift me all the time.

[00:51:45] And I'm on a text thread with Kishshana Palmer and Mallory Erickson and Dana Snyder. If you know any of those, and almost every day, we just like share things that we're struggling with. We lift each other up, we cheer each other on, we have a rule that we are supposed to brag about ourselves, Because women are taught not to ever share that.

[00:52:07] So we share things that we're proud of. And then we all lift each other up and that, and Jon and Julie and my husband are the other three people that completely lift me up. So find your people and when you're struggling, lean into it.

[00:52:20] Cindy: Yes. How about you, Jon?

[00:52:24] Jon: Oh my gosh. It's hard to follow B. I would agree with that on the level of culture, but I wanna talk about something else in addition to that, but culture, like we talk about it so much and we had kind of just a rough patch earlier this year of just like so overwhelmed, too much. We're both, I, you know, had planned to take six weeks, not really off, but to travel with my family this summer, but working from afar. So to find a different pace that he was gonna do some traveling and take a sabbatical.

[00:52:35] And it's just like, we had maxed ourselves out and I'm like, we had a tough conversation one night where it's like, we talk about building this culture. And I think in my limited mindset, I'm like, that's for organizations. And Becky's like, you realize we are an organization. Like what we're, which sounds ridiculous to say out loud, I feel like I'm making myself look really dumb, but I think I forget that we're setting the norms for our team and our dream and our family, right this second, you know?

[00:53:25] And like it's, now's the time to like change and recalibrate and figure stuff out and start saying, no, you know, and we're, I'm, I'm having imposter syndrome saying this, Because it's like, we're still bad at that, you know? But I think that's one of the big confessions and the other one, this is more funny. Our CRM is a hot mess.

[00:53:43] Becky: Our CRM sucks. It's the worst.

[00:53:48] Cindy: And I'm over here, like you have a CRM, like Jess?

[00:53:53] Jon: Okay. Do you use this plan on page 27? So we're gonna have a CRM. You started with really good-

[00:53:57] Cindy: What are you using? You have to tell us.

[00:53:59] Becky: Copper.

[00:54:01] Cindy: Oh, Remember that one.

[00:54:02] Jon: I liked it because it connects to Zapier. So I had this vision. I have a graphic in the business plan, which is funny. It is like copper's in the middle and it connects to all of these tools that we would in future use. But yeah, I have an open copper in like three months. Let's be really there. But I will say like, showing those warts, showing them being like, as the team has grown saying, Hey, we want to be a team that like knows people really well.

[00:54:26] And we want to remember conversations we had and follow through on the stuff that, and I'm looking at y'all and I'm like, I know we've dropped the ball personally with y'all. Yeah. And it like grieves us because it's just like, we're so like running and disorganized. And it's like, we wanna be able to follow through on the people that we are at our core.

[00:54:44] And so now we have team and we're like, we all, please help us figure out systems around this because clearly we've not done that well. But all the automations and stuff we talk about on the podcast, we would like to say we're better at that than we are, like, teach us your ways. Y'all's emails are so good. Every time I get them, like good.

[00:55:01] Cindy: It's all Jess. Jess is my email role model.

[00:55:09] Jess: The one thing I'm good at, trying to figure out how to make a whole business, where all I have to do is write emails.

[00:55:15] Cindy: I'm telling you it's absolutely possible, but that's literally, it's a whole new conversation.

[00:55:19] Becky: Just came on podcast. She was like episode 15 or something. Talking about building your email list. Like you're legendary for that.

[00:55:28] Cindy: Y'all listening can hire Jess to write your emails.

[00:55:30] Jess: Totally.

[00:55:30] Becky: I'm putting it out there.

[00:55:33] Becky: Endorsing Jess.

[00:55:36] Cindy: Oh my goodness. I thank you both so very much. Yes. Oh my gosh. We, the love is so mutual and you both are amazing, but I love you as a singular. So, that's what I think We Are For Good. And it's and, you know, because I think one of the big things you just talked about is not just you two there's a great group of people behind We Are For Good doing the incredible work that you're doing to build community that all of us need so thank you, thank you. Where can our listeners connect with you?

[00:56:16] Becky: You can find us at, weareforgood.com. We are on all your favorite social channels. LinkedIn is honestly our favorite playground. I'm not sure what's going on with the Instagram algorithms, but I'm not happy with them right now, but we are over there.

[00:56:31] We're on Facebook. We have Twitter, we have a YouTube account. We have a Pinterest. Thank you, Jess, for the power of Pinterest. But we really encourage anyone. If you're just looking to get connected with us and find like-minded friends, come to our community, it's weareforgoodcommunity.com. It's free.

[00:56:48] And we we're so amazed by it. Like the people that are in it have built sub communities within it. So we have tech for good. We have international NGOs, we've got corporate social impact and just all of these groups that are being self-led and it's just an organic, warm, safe, and encouraging spot for you to learn and get unst.

[00:57:08] Jon: Yeah. I mean, I would, that will reach out to us personally. I mean, J-O-N is Jon. weareforgood.com or Becky in the traditional Becky spelling.

[00:57:16] Becky: You'll get me better if you hit me in LinkedIn DMs. Cause yeah.

[00:57:22] Jess: Flattens those DMs. Thank you both for joining us and for sharing all of your wisdom. We so appreciate it.

[00:57:29] Becky: So grateful for you. Proud of what you built here.

[00:57:31] Jon: Huge fans of y’all. Thank you.

[00:57:35] Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can join your support in one of three ways.

[00:57:46] Jess: Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.

[00:57:54] Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit culture consultant.

[00:57:59] Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.

[00:58:05] Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.

[00:58:12] Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember we an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.

[00:58:20] Cindy: See you next time.