What's Working in Emails - Right Now
The best time to start an email list was 20 years ago. And the second best time is today. It takes time. It's not fast. And so if this is something you even think you might want in five years, low lift effort, start building your email list - Jess Campbell
What's Working in Emails - Right Now
Email marketing remains a potent tool for nurturing relationships and driving revenue. But are you truly harnessing its full potential? We're peeling back the curtain on the often overlooked strategies that separate lackluster campaigns from engagement powerhouses.
With candor, we breakdown myths and discomfort surrounding email cadences, calls to action, and general email strategy.
Prepare to have your email marketing mindset reshaped as we demystify the enigma of robust inbox placement. You'll discover a muscle-building approach to nurturing email deliverability, from crafting reply-prompting messages to decoding the intricate metrics that govern inbox providers' algorithms.
Get ready for some real talk about:
The counterintuitive magic number of hyperlinks to embed throughout emails for maximum mobile engagement
Ethical upselling strategies that foster genuine connections without triggering mass unsubscribes
Techniques for nurturing the "email deliverability muscle" to ensure robust inbox placement
A profound mindset shift: reframing relentless reminders as a generous service for the chronically forgetful
The nonprofit consulting landscape may be evolving, but with creativity, adaptability, and a supportive community, we can continue to make a significant impact.
00:01:31 Empowering Nonprofit Coaches and Consultants
Cindy and Jess aim to empower nonprofit coaches and consultants by sharing insights on running successful businesses in the sector.
00:03:11 The Power of Hyperlinks in Email Marketing
Jess emphasizes the importance of including at least six hyperlinks in emails for better sales performance in email marketing campaigns.
00:05:14 Launching Strategies Through Emails
The discussion delves into launching strategies through emails, highlighting the impact of email communication on driving purchases during launches.
00:07:06 Sending More Emails Than Expected
Jess advises sending more emails than initially thought necessary during a launch, emphasizing the need to push boundaries and get uncomfortable in email marketing.
00:09:53 Ethical Considerations in Email Marketing
The conversation touches on ethical considerations in email marketing, including offering opt-out options and respecting subscribers' preferences.
00:09:54 The Power of Email Reminders and Engagement
Discussion on the effectiveness of sending multiple email reminders, the positive impact of engagement through emails, and the importance of setting expectations and following through.
00:13:00 Email Deliverability and Engagement Metrics
Insights on email deliverability challenges, the significance of reply rates in email engagement, and the impact of email service providers' updates on inbox placement.
00:15:33 Building Relationships Through Email Engagement
Exploration of engaging with subscribers through personal interactions, the value of understanding the audience for better service, and the benefits of building relationships through email communication.
00:16:44 The Importance of Starting an Email List
Emphasis on the necessity of building an email list for business growth, the gradual process of building an email list, and the role of consistent communication in nurturing relationships for future sales.
00:18:03 Call to Action and Support
Encouragement to support the podcast through social media sharing, engaging with the content, and leaving positive reviews to help the podcast reach more listeners.
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/
Transcript:
[00:00:00 - 00:00:03]
Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
[00:00:03 - 00:00:11]
And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.
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After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.
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We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
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Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
[00:00:51 - 00:01:10]
No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
[00:01:11 - 00:01:27]
Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly. When it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
[00:01:28 - 00:01:30]
You ready? Let's go.
[00:01:31 - 00:01:32]
Hey, Jess.
[00:01:32 - 00:02:07]
Hello, Cindy, and hello, listeners. This is another episode, it's kind of a mini episode where Jess and I are just chatting, but we're sitting here together in person in our mastermind, and we wanted to share some behind the scenes of things that we're talking about with our business buddies that we think you might be interested in. So one of the topics that's come up has been about email marketing for ourselves. And Jess shared an insight that I think is super helpful. So, Jess, tell us about hyperlinks and how many we should be using.
[00:02:07 - 00:03:10]
I mean, yeah, there's a lot of tips and tricks when it comes to emails that just will enhance your deliverability and performance. We all know I'm a big fan of the email. Cindy and I go back and forth on who needs to have one and who doesn't. But as far as like, a marketing tool for sales, I think it's really, really powerful. And yet how you do it matters. And so one of the things that we were just talking about as a group is the number of opportunities you give people to click a hyperlink, not necessarily a bunch of buttons throughout your email, to actually buy. So I want you to put yourself in the seat of the person you are trying to sell to. They're probably opening their email on their phone. They're probably doing thumb scrolls. And so my rule is to actually have at least six hyperlinks throughout the email so that if people are kind of scrolling and they decide to make a purchase, they can just kind of catch a hyperlink every time I've said this out loud. Besides Cindy, people are surprised.
[00:03:11 - 00:03:12]
Mind blown.
[00:03:12 - 00:03:38]
Everyone's like, with that many. And I'm like, yes, it. You need it throughout, at the top, in the middle and at the bottom. Once again, I'm not saying that you have a bunch of buttons everywhere. That's just really distracting. I advocate for six hyperlinks throughout the email with one button towards the bottom, but you need more than you're probably doing.
[00:03:38 - 00:03:48]
Yeah, it's the same thing with like, the number of emails you send, which we're going to talk about too, because that's come up and that's saying, I've been pushing Jess around too because even.
[00:03:48 - 00:03:54]
I'm uncomfortable sending several emails in one day. But I have an actual case study to share. Yeah.
[00:03:54 - 00:04:51]
And I have, like, lots of evidence just from my launches, but I do that, like, so I just want to be really clear. Like, the hyperlink is the same link that you would have in the button at the bottom, but people aren't necessarily scrolling all the way to the bottom to even get that button that you have. And so it's the same link, but it's embedded in regular text. That, and I like to use, like, use it in text as either like the program name or like a mini call to action or sometimes like, really aspirational words or really, like, I'm identifying your problem words, like emotionally heavy words where it's like, oh, that's it. I'm clicking there. So just to reiterate, like, try for six or more of those links throughout your emails when there's a. I do this even not in our sales cycle, like, every single email where there's a link that they can click. Is that fair?
[00:04:51 - 00:05:14]
Fair. And just to be, again, super clear, because we're delivering this audio audibly, we're talking a single call to action. So this is all these different links we're talking about are not pointing people to six different places. We're pointing them to one place at a time, one call to action at one time. We're just advocating for many places to do that throughout your email.
[00:05:14 - 00:05:52]
Love it. So one of the things we've been talking about when it comes to email is like launching through emails, because whatever your launch strategy, the way people are actually taking action to buy is through your emails. And so, and I actually have been monitoring my launches for the last little while and I find, like, at least half of the people buy on the last day. And that's only if I have, like, a fast acting day one promotion. If there's no day one promotion, it's more than 50%. But on the last day, that's really high.
[00:05:52 - 00:05:53]
Higher than me.
[00:05:53 - 00:06:09]
And one of the things that I know people get uncomfortable with is like, how many emails they send through a launch and how many specifically on that last day. So, Jess, you just launched. How many did you send?
[00:06:09 - 00:07:06]
I mean, not only do I just launch, but this is what I do for a job is launch campaigns for nonprofits. And so I know this is an annoying answer, but it really does depend. And that's what I was saying to our peer mastermind that we're with right now. What I would say is it depends on the health of your list, the warm up of your list. So if it's a super cold list, I'm going to give you a different answer than if your list is super warm and they're used to seeing you in your inbox. It also depends on the duration of your launch. So, for example, we just did kind of a membership drive for building better together. It was a month, it was a month long. So there was a lot of emails. That's going to be different. So it was a lot of emails, but it was also over 30 days. That's different. If you're doing like a seven day or a ten day launch, the number of emails is going to differ. So that's what I'm saying when it say it depends. That being said, you definitely need to send more emails than you think you need to send.
[00:07:06 - 00:07:07]
Get uncomfortable.
[00:07:07 - 00:07:19]
Get uncomfortable. That being said, I also do as much consent based marketing as I possibly can and that for me includes an opt out button at the bottom of the email.
[00:07:19 - 00:07:40]
I was just going to ask you about that because I do the same when I launch, especially live launches for my evergreen that I'm setting up now because it's like a direct opt in and then there's actually like a separate trigger to the sales emails. I'm not sure I wouldn't do it for an evergreen. Yeah, but for my logic, they've just.
[00:07:40 - 00:07:42]
Opted into getting these emails.
[00:07:42 - 00:08:01]
Yeah, but for my live launches or anytime I'm promoting something to my bigger email list, I. And that's always at the top for me. I used to put it at the bottom, like, hide it, and now I'm like, I'm unapologetically selling. So this is what that is. If you're not interested, here's how to opt out.
[00:08:01 - 00:08:43]
Mm hmm. I agree. I back and forth with if it's at the top or the bottom. Sometimes I just switch it up to, like, catch people differently. But I do think that that's important because, as we all know, when we're selling to anyone, like, it matters the right price at the right time, at the right thing. And, like, for a lot of people, it just might not be the right thing or the right time, and, like, they still really enjoy your content. I have also heard people, like, we really respect, like, iman talk about how she's actually stopped doing those, because she's like, no, my list is. The purpose of my list is to sell. And if people aren't going to buy for me, she doesn't want them on their list. I have a different approach, especially for my nonprofit consultant community, because I actually very rarely sell to them.
[00:08:43 - 00:09:34]
Yeah. So the interesting thing is Claire Pelletro, who I'm in her program, also just did a launch where she's like, no, I'm not giving you the option to opt out. And the way I've seen my list when I launch is that about half of the people who join are new audience to me. They're new to my email list, like, within the last two months, and half have been on for at least one previous launch. And so I don't mind if they opt out now because I'm giving them opportunities to come back to a launch in the future. And sometimes people, like, just, like Mariah. Cause talks about, like, the tortoise and the hare buyers, like, the people who are fast and, like, ooh, that's me. And the people who are slow. And so I'm intentionally building both processes into my systems.
[00:09:34 - 00:09:39]
Yeah. So I'm a hare and you're. No, no, I'm a tortoise and I'm the hare.
[00:09:39 - 00:09:42]
I'm like, I'm in. Take my money.
[00:09:42 - 00:09:51]
I like to chew. I like to chew. That's a really, really good point. And I just think it's. I just think it's ethical, but, yeah.
[00:09:51 - 00:09:53]
Okay. One other thing about emails.
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And what do you want to say?
[00:09:54 - 00:10:06]
Well, I just want to give a little case study because. So we're here on our pure mastermind, and I think I had two emails scheduled to go out on my last day, and Cindy's over here, like, you need more.
[00:10:06 - 00:10:06]
More.
[00:10:06 - 00:11:29]
And so I wrote two more. So I ended up sending four emails. And I just want to say, not only did I have 15 sales out of 46, I don't know on the last day, on the last day, Chris, who runs Beeline, he's fantastic. He actually wrote the most thoughtful and generous comment on LinkedIn, walking me through the different touch points he's seen after the last month and how many it required for him to take action. He even called out that in my second to last email, I wrote a PS where I said, this is the last day, but I'm going to be sending you one more email. And he said, for me, I mentally clocked that you would remind me one more time. And then he took action on that very last email. So I was a bit uncomfortable sending four emails in a day. It also worked. And I had like, no unsubscribes and no one sent me any nasty emails. And even if they did, like, okay, but it's just, I think reminders are a kindness. Yes, they are a generosity. And as someone like me, who's very squirrely and I really do need reminders, I see them as a service versus as an annoyance. And I think that's a real big mind shift people can choose or not choose to have.
[00:11:29 - 00:13:00]
Totally agree. I think the other, we're both big fans of, like, tell people what to expect and then follow through. So I love that you said, like, I'm going to be sending one more email. I love including those kinds of things as well. During launches, it's like, I'm going to, and I've had, I have launches where I send a lot of detailed information about, here's what's next. Here's what's next. Now, a lot of people get to the end of the launch and they apply on the very last day after I'm asleep. And it's like, apply. But then they still have to have their application approved. And I'm like, did you not see all the emails that I sent? Like, no, this is closing. But then there's a ton of people. And when I've done like a flash sale the day before webinar, those people have read every single email, every detail, and I outline, I share all the dates in advance. I said, on this date, I'm dropping a podcast on this date, I'm dropping a budget on this date. Like, if you're on our wait list, you're gonna have application or you're gonna have early access to apply and I walk them through. And I, when I do that, half my launch comes in on those flash sale days. And I love when that happens too, because I know those people are the people who are going to get it done and be really successful. So tell people what to expect and then follow through. And then one last thing I want to talk about, which is around deliverability and types of calls to action, because it's not just click rates, especially these.
[00:13:00 - 00:13:40]
Days, for anyone who doesn't know, and I don't know if everyone's as diligent about tracking your analytics as me, but I follow the data. A lot of my clients will push back on me and I'm like, I'm not making this up. Like I, if it told me to do something else, I would do that. So there has been a lot of updates to email over the last six months and it's not over. So Gmail, Yahoo have made updates. Apple with their new update coming in September. It's making it more challenging to get into inboxes and a whole bunch of other stuff. So if you haven't looked into that with your email service provider or just even your straight Gmail, like, please look into that.
[00:13:40 - 00:13:42]
Do it. Reach out to our friend Rachel Barebauer.
[00:13:42 - 00:15:33]
She'll help you take care of it. It is worth it in spades and your migraine that you will get from trying to do it yourself. But basically, I want everyone to think of email deliverability like a muscle. Like the first time you send an email to, even if it's as low number of people, it, it's not strong. It takes many months of sending things for your email deliverability to get strong. And on the back end, Gmail or whatever inbox provider your clients have is measuring. Are these going into spam? Is this a bounce? Are people opening, clicking, replying? Because if it's low, if it's getting low scores, it's going to hurt your deliverability and they've just increase the threshold. So it's literally like 0.03 or 0.08. If your emails go and bounce, you're going to get dinged. It's not good. And so one of the things that I really recommend in your kind of lead up or warm up or in between phases of launching is to ask for people to reply. Replies are the strongest metric that all of these email service providers are measuring for success because that means people have opened, read and now are taking an action that they can clearly measure. And it's really fun as an email sender to get replies and conversation and a relationship, and you can do it in a lot of ways. Like, sometimes I know people are busy, I'll ask a question, but I'll have the answers broken down into emojis. So literally, people just have to reply with an emoji. Other times, I'll ask for, like, long witted answers. But that is one of the tricks you can do in between seasons or post launch to really increase your deliverability.
[00:15:33 - 00:16:11]
Yeah, I did that post building it into my launches as, like, a, why didn't you apply? Or why didn't you join? And the not just, is it, like, so great to engage people because they're like, oh, you notice, like, I'm not just an email. Like, a person on your email list. Like, you care and you noticed me, but also they reply, and I get to learn about them and I get to understand who my audience is, and that helps me better serve them. And it just makes, like, writing my emails so much easier because I'm not writing into an abyss of, like, however many names, like, these are people, and it just builds the efficacy of the work. So. All right, anything else to address?
[00:16:11 - 00:16:12]
Maybe it.
[00:16:12 - 00:16:43]
Yeah. All right. So we're okay. While I believe not everyone needs an email list, a lot of people should be building that in their business. I hate shoulds. But, like, if you want to grow and scale past, like, a certain point, not everyone does. And if you don't, and you're good, like, good. But if you want that email is the base platform for building up that scaled business. Like, we're on the same page with that 100%.
[00:16:44 - 00:17:04]
And I would just say, like, there's something. It's that saying the best time to start an email list was 20 years ago, and the second best time is today. It takes time. It's not fast. And so if this is something you even think you might want in five years, like, low lift effort, start building your email list, like, ten people at a time.
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Like, it doesn't need to be big.
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It also. But it needs your writing. Like, there's so many benefits and your.
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Like, brand identity and your style, and it doesn't. You don't need a big email list to launch or to sell because you can also sell without launching through email. But you do need to nurture.
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That's a whole different conversation. But yes.
[00:17:25 - 00:17:57]
Yeah. So if you're building this, commit to a regular cadence like Jess and I do, weekly. It doesn't need to be weekly, but some. So it's the same. Like, if you're a fundraiser, you know this or a communicator like, you don't just, like, ask for things, you build that relationship. So commit to nurturing and building the relationship and consistency. And then when you need to sell, when you need clients, that list is the most warm of people that you can sell to.
[00:17:57 - 00:17:58]
Absolutely.
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All right. Keep up the good work.
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Good luck.
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Thank you again for listening to the confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
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Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram Stories or LinkedIn profile and Tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.
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Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.
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And number three, leave a positive review.
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On Apple Podcasts that we can continue.
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To grow and reach new listeners.
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And, of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.
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And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book, and here to answer your burning biz questions.
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See you next time.