From side hustle to a team of 16 with Lynne Wester
“I’m not everybody’s cup of tea, but I’m somebody’s shot of tequila and I will be tequila all day long.” - Lynne Wester
From side hustle to a team of 16 with Lynne Wester
In today's episode of 'Confessions with Jess and Cindy,' we sat down with Lynne Wester, an OG nonprofit consultant who built her empire from ground up, all sparked by the urgent need to fund her dog's surgery. Now leading a 16-strong team, Lynne's journey through the shifts in healthcare consulting, her strategic use of webinars, and hands-on approach to change management, has been nothing short of inspiring. She's a testament to the transformative power of authenticity, hard work, and the courage to stay true to your core values in business. Tune into this episode to hear Lynne's raw and real success story, and grasp invaluable insights that could ignite your next breakthrough. Don't miss out on this game-changing episode!
Key Highlights:
Taking the Leap into Nonprofit Consulting Lynne's journey to becoming a nonprofit consultant started unexpectedly when her dog needed surgery. This urgent need led her to explore new ways to earn money, eventually leading her to create a successful consultancy in the nonprofit sector.She's a prime example of how identifying a personal crisis can catapult you into discovering your consulting niche—a lesson for all aspiring consultants that sometimes the push you need is wrapped in an unexpected package.
Balancing Instruction and Impact Lynne today splits her time evenly between teaching and direct client work, which not only demonstrates the importance of diversification but also presents a model of sustainable growth. It’s a reminder for all of us that the right balance can lead to a fulfilling and impactful consulting career.
Embracing the Winds of Change The world of nonprofit consulting can be tumultuous, with shifts like the Affordable Health Care Act reshaping entire landscapes. Lynne’s adaptability shows us that when change comes knocking, the savvy consultant swings the door wide open and invites it in for coffee.
Authenticity Above All Lynne’s journey to prioritizing authentic self-representation over the temptation of selling out her voice is a testament to the power of integrity. She has built her audience on the rock-solid foundation of who she truly is, and she encourages every consultant to do the same. Growing a following isn't about appealing to the masses; it's about resonating with the right people.
Investment in Knowledge is Non-Negotiable From webinars to in-person retreats, Lynne's commitment to accessible professional development is a cornerstone of her success. It's a vital cue for nonprofit consultants that investing in your own expertise is integral to providing the best service to your clients.
Lynne embodies the principles every nonprofit consultant should live by: Find your place, innovate through challenges, and anchor your business in authenticity. So, let’s take these lessons and gear up to scale our own ventures. Don't forget to subscribe for more enlightening interviews! Together, let's make it happen!
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/
Connect with Lynne Wester:
Lynne Wester (Linkedin): https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynnewester/
Donor Relations Guru (Website): https://www.donorrelations.com/
Donor Relations Guru (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/donorguru/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network https://www.fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-campbell-outintheboons/
Transcript:
00:00:00 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
00:00:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.
00:00:11 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and lived to see what sticks.
00:00:20 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six-figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
00:00:30 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
00:00:52 Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
00:01:11 Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
00:01:28 Jess: You ready? Let's go. Hello, Cindy.
00:01:33 Cindy: Hi, Jess.
00:01:35 Jess: You look so warm and cozy, by the way.
00:01:37 Cindy: Well, it's winter here.
00:01:41 Jess: I won't share when it is where I am. And our guests probably shouldn't either.
00:01:45 Cindy: Well, you all can [appa], although I will be in California in February for Make It Happen Live. So, you know, I will enjoy what you are enjoying. But yes, for now it is cold. I have to wear… My jacket is like a sleeping bag.
00:02:04 Jess: Oh gosh.
00:02:05 Cindy: It is not even that cold yet. I'm just like, yeah.
00:02:09 Jess: It was all, I guess it's all relative. Everyone, you are in for a treat because we have one of the OG nonprofit consultants with us, the one and only Lynne Wester of DRG. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:02:28 Lynne: Of course, I'm thrilled. I'm very happy to spend some time with you ladies and chat all about nonprofit consulting, fundraising consulting, whatever you wanna chat about, whether–
00:02:39 Jess: I mean, yeah. Well, you're living that island life right now, yeah?
00:02:43 Lynne: I am. I live on Grand Cayman, which is right near Cuba. So we're at a balmy 85 and sunny today. It's winter. There's a breeze.
00:02:53 Cindy: All of you, just stop.
00:02:55 Lynne: Hey, you can choose where you live.
00:02:58 Cindy: I know. Oh yeah.
00:03:00 Lynne: Which is I lived in a plane and in a hotel for 300 nights a year for seven years.
00:03:06 Jess: Wow. Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. Well, maybe let's just dive in and start there. So can you take us back to when you transitioned into this world of running your own business? What did it look like back then? And then bring us forward to today. How do you work with nonprofit clients now?
00:03:28 Lynne: Sure. So I started the business because my dog needed surgery. Yep. She needed surgery and I was very attached to Pandora, rest in peace, over the Rainbow Bridge, my pug. I was living in New York City. I was working at a university. I was loving my life. I had just finished my master's in nonprofit and my master's in fundraising for higher education. And I was starting to give speeches on the circuit and my dog got sick and I needed money. And I was a nonprofit person living in New York City, so I was broke all the time.
00:04:02 Lynne: And so I Googled how to make money in the middle of the night online, and lots of things came up. But the safest one that wouldn't insure me jail time or an interesting reputation, which was to do webinars. And so I had a blog following at the time of about 10,000 people and launched a year-long webinar series when I only had three. And two days later, my dog had surgery and the rest is history. And now I have 16 who work with me. It was me for many, many years. And then 10 years ago this year, I quit my job. Full-time job, I was doing it, my job and consulting and speaking, which is a great way.
00:04:50 Lynne: And the only thing that was stopping me was healthcare. And then the Affordable Health Care Act happened and I got two long-term contracts. And my boss who's still my friend was like, go, go. And I left with, my dad said to me, honey, we love you, we're so proud of you. We don't have a basement and we're not building one. So be successful or get a job.
00:05:15 Lynne: And so now I'm, 10 years later, I've got a team of 16. We help nonprofits, large and small, 60% of our clients are healthcare and higher ed. And we provide free resources. We have a website with 15,000 samples where if you need something, we want to provide it. We teach all over the world. About 50% of our time is spent teaching and instructing and doing trainings and giving knowledge. And 50% of our time is work with clients directly on projects. Or we do a lot of change management, which, nonprofit world really hates. So, you know.
00:06:01 Jess: Never enough.
00:06:03 Lynne: Right, there's never enough, but I love it. And I love what we do.
00:06:09 Cindy: That is so fantastic. And I just like, congratulations. Also for me in Canada, that idea of like, the insurance wasn't even on my radar, but like what, how powerful, right? Just that small change allowed so much, so much. So, so cool.
00:06:29 Lynne: Yeah.
00:06:31 Cindy: I'm so curious, a little like, you have the, you said about 50% of your work is like working within organizations, change management, all that kind of stuff. And the teaching, and part is about another half. Can you tell us, break down that other half? Like how much is you being brought into organizations to teach? And how much is it your curriculum with your audience?
00:06:56 Lynne: Sure. So pre-pandemic, I spent seven years on the road. So 300 nights a year in hotels, on airplanes. I have more status than anyone ever needs. Like, I can tell you how every hotel room is laid out based on the company. I can tell you who has the best snacks, you know, what airports to avoid. And I did that to build the presence, whether it was speaking at conferences, going to campuses, going to AFP chapters all over the world. And so now I have eight or so folks who will go into organizations and do that. I do a lot of keynoting now. Thank you, yay. I'll never forget my first keynote, I was like, ah! And then I was like, this is fun.
00:07:48 Lynne: But we also do a ton of what we call public offerings. So we have a year-long webinar series and our goal with the webinars is our, we call webinars our target. So we model ourselves after Target, not Walmart, but Target. When I started the business, I charged $25 each for a webinar and you could have as many people as you wanted to attend. And the reason that I have, and now they're $60 each 10 years later. So that's how inflation has hit our business. The reason that they're still $60 for unlimited seats is number one, I want people to have good professional development. There's a lot of professional development out there. I want them to have good professional development at an affordable price point, just like Target. You can have nice things at an affordable price point. You don't have to go to the dollar store.
00:08:37 Lynne: And I also, if you want to attend or 50 people at your nonprofit want to attend, or you want to bring 12 friends and broadcast in your neighborhood, the more people the merrier. I don't believe in charging by seat because I want it to be accessible. And I also wanted that if the individual practitioner, if Jess says, I wanna invest in myself, my organization won't pay for this, they won't go broke on our professional development.
00:09:05 Lynne: So in addition to the webinars and little series, like we just launched a writing series today, we do conferences in-person that are small. So they're bespoke, they're 30 to 50 people. You get hands-on workshop type. So for the folks that get lost in the large, I don't know which session, it’s all done, all curated for you. It's a very unique experience as well because, you know, you don't have the bad buffet food and the hundreds of people. And there's no vendors and you know, it's really experiential. But we try to offer unique things. And then at least coming through COVID, we did, sorry, I got distracted by my ding, ding, ding, and I don't know what it was for, and I turned it on focus, so I don't know why my focus–
00:09:57 Cindy: Don't you hate that? There's one or two apps that bypass focus.
00:10:01 Lynne: Ignore focus. They ignore focus. I'm like, focus is on. But I also do a ton of free webinars for company partners who want to invest in professional development. So I believe in making education accessible for all. Crazy concept, right? And so we lean into that. We really do lean into that. But I'm also asked to come to organizations and speak. I do board trainings. I do nonprofit days. I do facilitated retreats. I do some kind of the Olivia Pope of fundraising. So when something really, mostly bad happens, they call me and I come in and we do a lot of active problem solving and service recovery are words that we used at Disney.
00:10:52 Lynne: And so, you know, for example, and this was in 2008, when Lance Armstrong, you know, talked to Oprah and said, I lied and cheated, I got called into the Livestrong Foundation and worked with them to deal with what is this gonna look like? So, and I do a lot of that, most of it under NDAs because people don't wanna talk about that they hired somebody to help them deal with their crisis. But I'm there in good times and bad.
00:11:21 Cindy: That is so cool. I love it.
00:11:24 Lynne: It's a unique little side. It's not a side hustle. It's a part of my business that I talk about a lot because people don't want to admit that they've ever had anything gone wrong. But I feel like you're not really a nonprofit until the poop has hit the fan at least once.
00:11:40 Cindy: Yeah.
00:11:41 Lynne: So.
00:11:42 Cindy: That's so, this is so cool. Okay, I want to ask about this idea of growing business and having these different lines of business. I feel like we hear thought leaders in, not even in the sector, but generally in the digital space, you know, go all in, digital CEO, you know, or just like niche, niche, focus on one thing and you're doing broad stuff. And you are doing the scaled and the one-to-one. And I love that. And so I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how that thought process has worked for you. Do you ever question those decisions? I'm sure it's not like a one-time decision and then you're stuck with it. So what does that look like for you over time and how have you weighed the different priorities?
00:12:39 Lynne: So like I said, the business started with a website, a blog and some webinars, but I was very intentional out of the gate to have multiple revenue streams. And so that saved my business in COVID. So again, I went from being on the road to on March 13th, taking a flight home from Los Angeles to Austin and going, my business is done, I'm over. My career is, ended. I'll go get a job at a nonprofit or a software company and be mediocre, I guess. I don't know what's gonna happen, but there went my life. And so instead I invented a new software. We got out in front of COVID and started doing Facebook lives for free. We invented online series and courses.
00:13:22 Lynne: And so that pivot that nobody wants to hear the word pivot, but I am very intentional about multiple revenue sources and some revenue sources fund other loss leaders. So conferences are not a large revenue source, neither are books. However, they fund other things. So I primarily come from the higher education world. Well, in higher education, I had the blog, people were following me. I had like, this was before social media. This was back in the days when you had a blog and a website, right? Well, nobody would hire me for the big stuff until I had a book. And so the book led to credibility. And then, now I'm on book number five, right? And so books don't make you money. You're not John Grisham, Jesus Christ, calm down, right? Like, but some people will not have you at their conferences unless you have a book.
00:14:17 Lynne: So the other thing is multiple revenue means that when one source of revenue dries up, there are other streams, income streams coming in. So I'm a big believer in passive income. And so what are your passive income streams? And how are you monetizing while still supporting? So there's a way for me to monetize and still do volunteer things like speak for certain organizations that I want to because I monetize in other areas. So, you know, that's something that everybody, you know, and I do not have an MBA. I'm an entrepreneur by dog choice, not by, I didn't fantasize, I wanted to be the first female NFL referee, I didn't wanna be an entrepreneur, but here I am and I love it and I'm passionate about it. And there's not been a single year that my business hasn't been 10X profitable of the year before.
00:15:19 Jess: I mean, wow, wow, wow. Okay, I'm gonna come back to my question around audience building, which you are an absolute master at, but I first wanna know how you find the capacity to be able to do all of these things. You mentioned recurring revenue, you mentioned a staff of 16. I imagine you didn't get to either of those things overnight, but this is something that even I've super struggled with in my business. Like, scaling while still head down doing work with very, you know, it's just me, myself and I, for the most part. And so I'm just curious, like what that's looked like in your business. How have you been able to basically afford to be able to have a loss in certain areas while still doing the work? Like what's the recipe for that?
00:16:15 Lynne: Sure. So let’s replace the word master, because it's something trying to remove from my vocabulary, and I'll encourage others to do the same as strategic or wizard or, you know, Empress or something fun, right? Just trying to help us all–
00:16:29 Jess: I like Empress.
00:16:31 Lynne: Empress, yeah, trying to help us all be more inclusive, right? And let's say this, that when I figured out that people wanted to pay for access to education, I then sacrificed. I think it's really interesting and Clay Buck and I talk about this all the time. He's my partner in the podcast. Number one fundraising podcast season two in January. Self-promotion, which makes me completely uncomfortable. So that's one thing I had to really work on is worth and self-promotion.
00:17:05 Lynne: So number one, I sacrificed. I didn't have a life for, you know, what I mean? Like everybody wants it all. You cannot have it all. So you must give up things. I gave up fun evenings out in New York City, I spent my life on the road, or I gave up having a fun time. Now I have much more balance. That's something I gained out of COVID, honestly. When I moved to the island, I now have a significant other, I now have a life, I have a social life, if I can do what I want when I want, but I sacrifice, and I think there are a lot of people who won't make those sacrifices. So number one, you're not gonna get rich, not working your ass off. So the hardest job I've ever had is working for myself.
00:17:49 Lynne: The second thing is I faked it until I made it some days. So people would call and they'd want to speak with my accounting department. I set up Greg at donorrelationsguru.com and Greg was my accounting department. Greg doesn't exist and has never been a human being. I've never met him, but I needed to have an accounting department. I had an accounting department. I will tell you that I invested in hiring an assistant part-time before I could afford it to take away the things that I don't need to spend my time doing. Now I have Shannon, she's my concierge, she's been with me and I am loyal to a fault to her because she's in charge of my life. If you want 30 minutes on my calendar, you need to talk to Shannon. If I need to go to the bathroom, I need to talk to Shannon. You know, I schedule in my parents and my pilates and everything else.
00:18:40 Lynne: But the other thing is, and in addition to working hard, you need to make choices. So one of the choices I made early on was not to take easy money. I know that sounds interesting, but there were lots of our partners in the industry who offered me lots of money to put their logos on my website, to talk about them in blogs, to promote their software. Most of it was software companies. I got offered $100,000 to write a blog promoting a software company and I turned it down. And at that time I was not making $100,000 because I want my readers, I want my people to value my opinion and know that it's not bought and paid for. And the companies I do get behind have bought me drinks at a conference and dinner. I love to eat, but they have to eat too, so why can't I?
00:19:35 Lynne: But I am not on the take and that was a strategic decision. And now it's come back to me probably a hundredfold, not taking that 100K early on. And I think there's lots of people who are always trying to find the easy way to make money. There is no easy way to make money and be successful. You have to make hard decisions. I also am very diligent about rules and paperwork and business process. Everybody that works with me has a signed memorandum of understanding and number one says, open and honest communication at all times.
00:20:11 Lynne: And I've been burned. I've had to say goodbye to friends and people I've worked with. I've gotten in, relationships professionally with people that there was no there, there. They're just influential, but they have no substance. And that's happening more and more out there. I am so tired. There's a person right now on LinkedIn professing her expertise and no offense, but she graduated college in 2018. So it's insulting sometimes to those of us who have busted our hump for 20 or 30 years. And I've made marvelous mistakes. That's the other thing.
00:20:48 Lynne: I thought I would be like some of these people and I'm like, Hey, you can have a monthly membership to DRG. None of my customers bought it. And I was like, or not, we'll go back to selling things. Nevermind. And like, I ignore some of the things that people say works. Oh, everything needs to end in 79 or 99. No. It's 200 bucks. I'm not here to fool you. Like it's $200. $199 is $200. So I put $200 because I'm kind of honest to a fault.
00:21:23 Jess: First of all, I just appreciate all of… like your honesty. I feel some people might not want to be as candid as you just were on some of those answers. And I really appreciate your, talking just about hard work. Like it really does. Like people I think, think there's a silver bullet or this like magic mystery out there and you just really busted your ass. And you're still probably busting your ass.
00:21:51 Lynne: I think the greatest insult I've ever been given is that I was lucky.
00:21:55 Jess: Oh yeah. Yeah, that's–
00:21:58 Lynne: [Definitely], I'm not lucky. I'm privileged and I have white privilege. And I have familial privilege. I'm the second generation to go to college in my family. I have privilege, but I am not lucky. I worked my ass off.
00:22:12 Jess: Yeah.
00:22:13 Lynne: And I sacrifice. And like, I see people not doing that. And I'm like, that's cute, but it won't last. I see a lot of consultants who come into consulting and they last a year and a half or two, and they go right back into industry because they don't know how to run a business. It's a business.
00:22:29 Jess: Right, right, for sure.
00:22:31 Lynne: Business at the end of the day.
00:22:33 Jess: So it sounds like so much of your hard work has been put towards building this incredible audience. I mean, you are on the tip of so many people's tongues in terms of recommendations. It sounds like the fact that you have the ability to sell to any kind of audience or list at any price point is really, really, really amazing. And I would love for you to just tell us maybe a couple of the steps you've taken. I'm specifically curious, like in a post COVID world, what audience building looks like for you in your organization, because the game has changed.
00:23:14 Lynne: Maybe.
00:23:15 Jess: As far as I feel like the buyer behavior, like the buyer online has, in my experience, smartened up in a different way. Like the way we might have said, here's a freebie or here's a webinar, people are like, but is it valuable? So I'm curious what amassing your very large audience has looked like and then what also you are doing present day.
00:23:42 Lynne: Sure, so yes and no COVID has changed audiences in terms of there's a lot of [shamery] out there. There's a lot of pretty marketing and no substance and I may be all substance and not pretty and I'm cool with that. I think that there was a point in my business when every single time I received criticism, I took it to heart. And I would go and speak at a conference and have 400 people say that was the best thing they ever had. And one person say, that they were not there to be entertained and to stop it with the humor and to who did I think I was? And I would only listen to that feedback.
00:24:21 Lynne; And then my psychologist and my family and friends were like, look, what's great about you is yourself. And so the thing I have learned about my audience is I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but I'm somebody's shot of tequila. And I will be tequila all day long, reposado white preferably, but I mean, I like it smoother rather than harsh. I do like a good Mezcal from time to time. However, you can't please everybody. So that's one thing.
00:24:48 Lynne: Number two, when it comes to building my audience, I'm authentic a hundred percent of the time, flaws and all. I have cried in front of my people. I have asked for forgiveness. I have shared my family. Like people know my parents, they know my friends. Like, and that has come at my own peril sometimes. People, especially after COVID love judgment. There, people find fault in everything you do. I could say that first time donors are the most important donors and somebody's gonna find fault in it. I could say million dollar donors don't matter. Somebody's gonna yell at me. Like, so I just continue to be myself.
00:25:27 Lynne: And I actually stake a flag in the ground. Not enough consultants actually have an opinion. It's one of the things I love about Jim Langley. He's like, here's what I believe. And if you don't like it, not my problem. And so building my audience has come intentionally, but also it's knowing who my audience isn't. So I'm not for everybody. I'm not for the weak and lily-livered. I'm not here to… I'm doing a webinar in a few, about the future and da da, and everybody's saying, oh, donors aren't giving and the sky is falling. I'm like, no, we just don't know how to measure it. People are more generous than ever, but we are failing to see it.
00:26:08 Lynne: And oh, nonprofits struggled on Giving Tuesday. Yeah, because you keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. I ran a Giving Tuesday for the Hawaii Community Foundation and we blew it out of the water and we raised a ton of money and had amazing messages and we killed it. But that's because I pushed them to do things that other nonprofits aren't doing.
00:26:29 Lynne: So I also, I really, you know, we have key values at DRG and we hold to them and anything that doesn't fit our key values, we don't do. And so I just think that part of building an audience is prioritizing who you are and what you wanna be. I also don't purposely ever tread in other… I don't, I know this sounds crass, but I don't pee in other people's pools. Like there are experts out there on lots of things. Here is my area of expertise. We do, gratitude. Do you know what I mean? Thank you’s, impact, comms, events. I'm not out there telling you how to get more major donors. I'm not out there telling you how to run a campaign plan. I'm not out there telling you how to write a direct mail sentence that will work. I'm gonna tell you how to communicate with donors, but I also stay in my lane.
00:27:23 Lynne: And I think the last thing that helps me build an audience is, this is not just my job, it's my vocation, my area of study, I have a master's degree in it. Every day I read at least two articles on this and knowledge is helpful. So that, when you go to your boss and say, well, we should listen to this lady who's talking about donor retention, I'm like, well, yeah, according to the fundraising effectiveness project, da-da-da-da, and they're like, oh, yeah, I know my profession. You can't wing it forever. You can wing your way in the door, but you can't stay.
00:28:02 Cindy: Okay, you literally just dropped so many golden nuggets. If you are listening. just go back and re-listen to the last little bit. Like you talk about niching down, about investing in yourself as an expert, like knowing who you are for and who you are not for. All of these things I think are just really, really powerful and worth re-listening to. So go rewind for a little bit and then come back. I wanna, we don't have a whole lot of time today, so before we wrap up–
00:28:37 Lynne: We can do it again anytime.
00:28:38 Cindy: We can do it again, I know.
00:28:40 Lynne: Anytime.
00:28:40 Cindy: We wanna ask for confession. I feel like this whole episode is a confession ‘cause you are so open and it might be hard because you are so open and transparent, which is so great. So is there anything you haven't shared or a confession that our listeners love to hear?
00:28:59 Lynne: Tons, tons and tons and tons. The first seven years, I charged little to nothing. My consulting fee for seven years was $500 a day. That's how much you could hire me to speak anywhere on earth. You could get me to consult for that. I had problems with worth and I worked with an executive coach and a psychologist. I have a mental health issue. I have an anxiety disorder. That's a confession. I know that a lot of people know that about me, but we need to make it safe for people to have mental health challenges. I had a break because I worked too hard and didn't take care of myself, right?
00:29:43 Lynne: So it all sounds gravy, but I also gave up large chunks of my life to be successful. Would I do it again? You damn betcha. Because now I can enjoy it a hundred times more, but I have failed so well. I've gotten fired. I've got, I mean, I've got lots of confessions. I think the biggest confession is right now I am struggling with determining, and I literally talked to my psychologist about it, to determine whether people are real or not. I'm having trouble because it's not imposter syndrome where people think they're great and they're not. No, they talk like they're great and they're not. We have experts in this field.
00:30:28 Lynne: Confession, not everybody with big followings is good at their job. Not everybody with big followings on social media has actually done the work. Do your homework, do your research before you start worshiping at the trough of some of these influencers or experts in consultant land. Show me your books, people, because I'll put mine out any day long and I'll show you my client list and my referrals. I got no secrets, but a lot of people do a lot of this and they're… nothing there.
00:31:01 Cindy: That's so funny. We just had this conversation, because I don't think you're alone. I know you're not alone in that feeling of like, what is real and what is marketing?
00:31:12 Lynne: What is real?
00:31:14 Cindy: Yeah.
00:31:15 Lynne: Cause there's some marketers out there, y'all, but they have never raised a dime. Never raised a dime. Never issued an endowment report. Never been screamed at by a donor. Never held a donor while they cried. Never had a direct mail piece go out and forget to remove the dead people. Never F'd up the zip code on Excel where it drops all the damn zeros. And that's why Clay and I have Fundraising is Funny. Because if you have been through all this, if you really do have the stuff, this shit is funny. Like you can't make this up.
00:31:49 Lynne: You can't make up, the fact that a donor backed into a pool and fell in and then gave $100,000 because you dried their clothes. Like, you can't make up, the fact that you just sewed together a university president's tie before he went on stage. Like, you can't make that up. So I am having a problem trying to find the there, there. And it hurts. And it hurts because I've sacrificed it. It hurts because I know good people are being overlooked because they don't have fancy marketing.
00:32:19 Cindy: Yeah, no, that is definitely on people's minds and reminds me of the story one time. We used to do direct appeal in-house with volunteers like stuffing the envelopes.
00:32:30 Lynne: Tri-fold, baby.
00:32:31 Cindy: Tri-fold.
00:32:32 Lynne: Tri-fold stuffer.
00:32:33 Cindy: One of the volunteers put the wrong, everything was pre-addressed so you had to match up the return envelope with the label. Someone put two in, two of the return slips in one envelope after we had stuffed them all, we had to go back and find that and then re-stuff all of that. Nightmares. But yeah.
00:32:57 Lynne: But it bonds you with the people that you go through that trauma with. You learn the lesson, right? And you're able to say–
00:33:03 Cindy: Never happen again.
00:33:03 Lynne: Here's what I would have done differently. You can't do that if you've never done the work. You can just give out this utopia of la la la, you know, and AI this and, you know, do this and automate this. And I'm like, yeah, but when's the last time you had a paper cut?
00:33:20 Cindy: Well, thank goodness we never looked at the actual envelopes.
00:33:24 Lynne: I did. And stamps. I'm so old. I looked, stamps. So.
00:33:28 Cindy: I mean, I think, same. I mean, anyways, we can talk about the good old like pre-digital days of direct appeal.
00:33:39 Lynne: I miss the office shredder is what I miss, because now when I go places, they're not allowed to have shredders because, probably because of people like me. But yeah, they have slots and then a company comes and picks it up. Yeah, they can't have shredders because they're hazards, because I used to like, sit there and people would save all their shredding for me. And whenever I was having a moment, I would sit in front of the shredder and shred things because it would make me feel better about the rage I would have.
00:34:05 Cindy: See, I love shredders, but I hated the bags.
00:34:07 Lynne: Oh, no, I love all that.
00:34:08 Cindy: Like taking the bag out of the shredder and you have to stuff it all in.
00:34:11 Lynne: Give it to me. That was my, that and figuring out why the printer was jammed. I'm really good at that.
00:34:17 Cindy: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay, Lynne, such a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Where can our listeners connect with you and follow along your journey?
00:34:28 Lynne: Super easy, donorrelations.com, at Donor Guru on social, I'm on LinkedIn. We have podcasts on Apple, Spotify, anywhere. But you can find me, Lynne Wester, Lynne with an E, because my mom liked extra vowels. So, you know, had to make the E match with the E in the Marie and the E in the Wester, so. E straight up.
00:34:50 Cindy: Thanks, mom.
00:34:51 Lynne: Yeah, exactly. Thanks for meaning, I'll never have a personalized mug in my lifetime.
00:34:58 Cindy: Yeah, Jess can't relate to that at all.
00:35:01 Lynne: No.
00:35:02 Jess: Oh, I spent, you know my maiden name.
00:35:04 Cindy: Yeah, you're the last name, but you're like Cindy wasn't that common either, right? So I never, there's never any souvenirs with my name on it.
00:35:13 Lynne: No souvenirs.
00:35:13 Cindy: Yeah.
00:35:14 Lynne: I welcome everyone. But I also want everyone to understand that there's a place for them. And if their place for them is it with us, they'll find it. And if as a consultant, you're struggling, I will say reach out for help. You don't realize the resource or the people that you have in your corner. I'll never forget I quit my job and I posted on all my social, I quit my job. I'm in the business full time. And I had so many new clients because they said, well, we were just waiting. We didn't want to bother you while you were working. And I was like, I want to quit sooner, crazy.
00:35:48 Cindy: Okay. That is a whole other conversation that I definitely want to have.
00:35:53 Lynne: Take the leap sooner than you think you need to.
00:35:55 Cindy: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, Lynne.
00:35:58 Jess: Thank you, Lynne.
00:35:58 Lynne: Oh, I'm always here. I love it. And I love what you guys are doing for our community. So thank you.
00:36:06 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
00:36:18 Jess: Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.
00:36:26 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.
00:36:30 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.
00:36:36 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.
00:36:43 Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.
00:36:51 Cindy: See you next time.