Charging $500/Hour (And Only Work With Values-Aligned Clients) with Rachel D’Souza
“When we can sit in abundance, we raise all ships. That doesn’t mean it’s not going to hurt in the short term, but it means that you are building something different, and we all benefit from that." Rachel D’Souza
Inside Jess’s Black Friday Bundle: A Play-by-Play Breakdown
Ever wonder what it really takes to build a consulting business that aligns with your values AND makes great money?
This week's guest, Rachel D'Souza, founder of Gladiator Consulting, reveals how a Netflix binge and a supportive brother helped her build a consulting business that now hovers between $750-900K in annual revenue.
But here's what makes this story interesting - Rachel doesn't chase RFPs, doesn't compromise on her values, and actually turns down clients who don't align with her vision for transforming the nonprofit sector. And the surprising result? More success, not less.
Rachel opens up about how she went from charging "nonprofit sector rates" to confidently pricing at $500/hour, thanks to some tough love from her business coach. She shares the mindset shifts required to charge premium rates while still ensuring her services remain accessible to grassroots organizations.
We dive deep into how she structures her team (hint: it's a mix of core staff and carefully selected contractors), her approach to equitable compensation, and why she's not afraid to have hard conversations about money with potential clients.
But perhaps most compelling is Rachel's candid discussion about showing up with courage in the sector, even when it means potentially losing business. She shares how being vocal about equity and justice has actually attracted more of the right clients, not fewer.
Highlights:
Your pricing structure can reflect both your values and your worth. Rachel breaks down how she prices differently for different organizations while ensuring everyone on her team gets paid equitably.
Business development doesn't have to mean constant hustling. Building authentic relationships and being selective about clients can actually lead to more sustainable growth.
Success often means redefining what "enough" looks like. Rachel found her sweet spot isn't about maximizing revenue but about maintaining the right balance of impact and income.
Getting comfortable with premium pricing takes practice. Start by understanding what you and your team need to thrive, then work backwards from there.
Timestamp summary:
[00:01:31] Cindy and Jess chat about their early media experiences and introduce Rachel D’Souza.
[00:03:25] Rachel shares her business journey and the foundation of Gladiator Consulting.
[00:04:14] Gladiator’s focus: community-centric fundraising, equity work, and scenario planning.
[00:05:54] Rachel explains her customized approach to consulting and intake processes.
[00:06:29] Evolution of Rachel’s team over the last decade, from freelancers to full-time staff.
[00:08:21] Prioritizing values-aligned work and rebuilding her business structure in 2023.
[00:11:24] The origin of Gladiator Consulting’s name, inspired by Scandal.
[00:12:00] Why solving painful client problems can justify premium pricing.
[00:14:36] Rachel’s reflections on equitable pricing and fair compensation for her team.
[00:17:11] Creating a business aligned with personal financial needs and team goals.
[00:19:36] Rachel’s approach to saying no to misaligned clients and focusing on transformative projects.
[00:27:08] Rachel’s organic business development strategy rooted in authentic relationships.
[00:32:00] Transitioning to a CEO role and delegating client work to her team.
[00:35:11] Rachel opens up about overcoming discomfort with financial success.
[00:37:58] The importance of courage and allyship in building a values-driven business.
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/
Connect with Rachel:
Gladiator Consulting Website: http://www.gladiatorrds.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gladiatorrds/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gladiatorconsulting/?hl=en
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/
The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me
Transcript:
[00:00:00] [00:01:00]
[00:01:31] Cindy: Hey Jess. Hello, hello. And hello listeners. Welcome back. We've just been channeling our inner radio host. Oh my goodness. We've just been on the radio by the way. Have you ever been? Yeah,
[00:01:50] like have you ever like called in? Do you remember that?
[00:01:53] Cindy: Yeah, I don't know. I've done, so I used to run a radiothon. like a national radiothon.
[00:01:58] Cindy: We had 11 [00:02:00] radio, radiothons happening simultaneously across Canada. so I'm sure I was like interviewed at various points there, but not regularly. I also used to do like other media for organizations, so I've been on TV a couple times. Oh my gosh,
[00:02:14] Jess: our media queen. I just remember being like Like, gosh, like, young, like, I don't know, probably my daughter's age, like, 8, 9, like, listening to the radio, like, double pressed, taping the song that would come on, and then all these people would call in and like, do their thing, and
[00:02:36] Cindy: I'm just super dating myself.
[00:02:39] Cindy: The mixtapes like when you hit record. Yeah. Anyways, we're all we're all there. I'm so excited for today's guest. Rachel D'Souza from Gladiator Consulting is joining us. Hey, Rachel. Hey friends. How's it going? So excited. I feel like we are we
[00:02:55] Jess: are fast friends. Yeah.
[00:02:56] Cindy: Yeah. This is going to be great. So good.
[00:02:59] Cindy: And I feel [00:03:00] like We're friends, just like we have so many friends in common and I've heard so much about you and we met briefly, very briefly at a conference, but, yeah, we're delighted to have you on the show. Yay, fast friends. Thank you for having me. Thanks for being here. Yeah, so for people who don't know you, because I feel like a lot of people do, but for anyone who doesn't, can you tell us a little bit about what your business is?
[00:03:25] Rachel: Yep. So I am the founder of Gladiator Consulting. we are a nonprofit consultancy based in St. Louis, Missouri. we have local and national clients, and really our work, I feel like is on the edge of change for the nonprofit sector. So looking at, you know, fundraising and resource development, with a community centric fundraising or movement mindset lens, sort of Leaving behind what I feel is sort of the more archaic structure of strategic planning for strategic doing and scenario planning.
[00:03:54] Rachel: we do a lot of org culture and equity work. and then sort of as I, as I shared, in our offline [00:04:00] chatting, I just finished a program at Washington University School of Law, in conflict resolution. And so we are going to be, centering a little bit more of our work in the change management space, which I feel like is appropriate for this, moment in history.
[00:04:14] Cindy: First of all, congratulations. That's amazing. Thank you. And I'd love to hear a little bit about how you structure your services and offerings. Is it like, do you have sort of signature products or is it more customized? How do you incorporate all of those things into your services?
[00:04:37] Rachel: Sure. I would say we're very customized.
[00:04:40] Rachel: you know, set of services. So oftentimes we'll have an organization or an individual who will come to us because they know me or they know about gladiator. They heard about us through word of mouth. and oftentimes people come to us with a problem, right? Like, my board's, underperforming, overperforming in my business.
[00:04:56] Rachel: we can't close grants. We're really struggling to evaluate our programs. and [00:05:00] for me, we often do this sort of intake assessment. So I'll get on the phone with someone, I'll ask that a questions. And oftentimes they'll come to us with problem like a, B and C, but like our five steps ahead of what the actual issue is.
[00:05:14] Rachel: And I'm like, okay, that's great. Like we can get here, but like, I need you to be open to the opportunity to do like, X, Y, and Z before we can get into these pieces. and so, you know, while we have like structures of like how we build a resource development plan or how we do equitable engagement or how we take someone through scenario planning, the components and the pieces look different depending on, you know, the size of the organization and ultimately what they really need.
[00:05:39] Jess: Okay, so you keep referencing we, and so I'd love to know a little bit more about what we is, at gladiator, the gladiators, so tell, tell us a bit more about what that looks like, and did you start that way? Was that an evolution?
[00:05:54] Rachel: Yeah, the, we has changed, so many times. we [00:06:00] are. I am we are Gladiator is turning 10 next summer.
[00:06:05] Rachel: and so, you know, in the beginning, it was me and some, freelancers who wanted, you know, a little bit of a side hustle. and that's sort of how the first, four years of the business. So as projects would come in, I would match our subject matter experts. with a project to make sure, you know, our clients have the smartest people in the room who are best at specific things.
[00:06:29] Rachel: and then I would sort of coordinate a project. when we got to 2019, we grew in surprising ways. and again, like through word of mouth, and I think just through the work we were doing, and so we brought on staff. And so, you know, from 2019 through 2022, experience this like really interesting and significant growth and had, a team of FTEs, we still worked with some other consultants who had, you know, their own, LLC or S corp.
[00:06:58] Rachel: But we're really sort of trying to figure out how [00:07:00] do we create this, this team of folks that, that, looks like gladiator beyond like who Rachel is. Right. and I went through a lot of personal transition in 2022, which we can like put over here for a minute. but really towards the end of that year, realized that we had grown in ways that were really exciting, but really didn't feel, values aligned for me.
[00:07:19] Rachel: and so. Sort of said to my team in 2023. Like, Hey, I think we need to tighten up. I think we need to redirect some of our, the way that we're doing our work. And I don't want us to take projects that are not like transformative for the sector. and that's a really big statement to make. and so most of my team from 2023 until now turned over, because that wasn't a risk that they were willing to take with their, But their career, with their income and, and I get that.
[00:07:47] Rachel: And so now we are in this place of sort of having, rebuilt this internal structure. So I have a fractional COO, who's also my business coach. I have, you know, a couple of full time directors, I have an [00:08:00] assistant, and then we have, again, sort of a bunch of subject matter experts who are. Not only values aligned, but behaviors aligned, to the way that I am interested about doing work that not only transforms an organization and the people in it, but contributes to moving our sector in the direction of, of equity and justice.
[00:08:21] Cindy: I love that. So you have your core people and then the people who come in as needed who are, I love that sort of values and behavior because so often we can state our values but how we behave is much more of an indicator of what we believe in.
[00:08:39] Rachel: Yeah, I am a, I am a big believer that it's not enough to put a sign in your yard or wear a t shirt.
[00:08:46] Rachel: Like, I need you to be. uncomfortable because you do the things that you say that you believe. and that's like a happy space for me and that makes a lot of other people really anxious and fearful. but I found that leaning into that [00:09:00] means that we go further together. Definitely.
[00:09:04] Cindy: Okay, before we keep going, I do want to hear the origin story of your business name because you mentioned that before we were chatting.
[00:09:13] Cindy: So tell us a little bit about that.
[00:09:15] Rachel: Yeah. Okay. So it's 2015. I just had my second child. So I am home for the summer with a four year old and a newborn. my partner at the time had justhis company had been acquired and he took a job that required him to be gone pretty much that whole summer, and so here I am, like, about 7 weeks into my maternity leave thinking like, I'm not gonna make it.
[00:09:41] Rachel: I love my children, and I'm going to be the person that's like on the 10 o'clock news because I like took them to a bar or something like that's like the headspace right that I was in and I knew to be clear I knew that I probably wasn't like a stay at home parent but I think again we should try things that make us uncomfortable and I tried it and it [00:10:00] did and so I remember calling my younger brother who's a CPA his name is Matt and I was like hey I really need you to come over because I'm kind of freaking out and so he comes over we're sitting on the couch the kids are you know the babies Sleeping, my son's playing and, he's like, why don't you just start an LLC?
[00:10:16] Rachel: Like, why don't you create the structure? You can like tell a couple people what you're doing. It'll like give your like adult brain the opportunity to like be creative. So you're not, you know, just like changing diapers and going to the zoo every day, which is lovely, which is lovely, but not who I am and what I needed.
[00:10:33] Rachel: And so I'm like, great. Yeah, cool. Let's do it. You show me how. So, we're watching Scandal. you know, the TV show by Shonda Rhimes. and if you're like familiar with the premise, there is this woman named Olivia Pope. She's the main character. and she often refers to her and her team as gladiators in suits.
[00:10:49] Rachel: because they come in, they deal with really hard problems, and then they solve them in a way that, you know, keeps their clients, safe and happy. And so, as we're, you know, going through this process, [00:11:00] he's like, you need a name. He's like, how about, you know, RDS Consulting, or how about Rachel D'Souza Consulting?
[00:11:05] Rachel: He's like looking out the window, how about Silver Maple Consulting? I was like, all of this sounds ridiculous. And I was like, how about Gladiator Consulting? And he was like, no one's going to take you seriously. And I was like, you know what? Maybe that's okay. I don't want to be so serious about my work that it's not fun, that it's not funny, that we can't be in like authentic relationship with each other.
[00:11:24] Rachel: And so that is how Gladiator Consulting was born.
[00:11:28] So good. I was just telling Rachel before we pressed record that I recently just watched the entire series. So I have like reference and context. and so one of the things that I thought about while I was watching the show was how Olivia Pope's clients pay like a premium price tag because they solve the, her and her team solve very painful problems.
[00:11:54] And how is business owners that is like the fastest way towards, [00:12:00] at least financial success by figuring out what problems are making people like. Not just uncomfortable, but like they're in some sort of pain. And so I'm wondering if like that applies to your business at all or how you, brand your business so that you are coming in and solving like these very real problems for your clients.
[00:12:23] Jess: Yeah.
[00:12:23] because. At least in my experience in business, it takes like these extra connective points for clients to get it. Also, when we're in like the B2B space, there's often a lot of decision makers who have different life experiences, different education levels, different. priorities and so they're all coming at the decision differently.
[00:12:48] So yeah, I'm just wondering like how you're channeling your own Olivia Pope when it comes to, to yeah, solving big problems for, for your [00:13:00] clients.
[00:13:00] Rachel: Yeah. so a few things. Wouldn't it be great if we could solve big problems in a 60 minute time frame? Or like over the arc of like a, you know, three, three episode story.
[00:13:12] Rachel: so yeah, so Gladiator has an interesting proposition. I mean, we're in the Midwest and, and, you know, I think a side piece of my work is also, Being in partnership with other women of color. My family immigrated to the U. S. from India in the seventies, but my brothers and I were born here. and, and in, in my community, you're sort of either black or white.
[00:13:32] Rachel: So to sort of be the child of immigrants and sort of have to explain things over and over again, it's like, okay, so there's like a space for identity that needs to be figured out and I need to bring folks along. and so we also know that in this space, women of color, And people with other marginalized identities, are underpaid or they are not paid the same as their white counterparts.
[00:13:53] Rachel: And so what I have really tried to do is sort of two things, create an equitable [00:14:00] pricing model that lets,organizations that have a budget of, you know, less than 500, 000 a year or less than 200, 000 a year, be able to work with us and organizations, you know, like our public library, like one of our, bioscience districts, Cortex, who have, like, multi million, tens of millions of dollars budgets, be able to work with us, and so the goal for me is making sure that I, along with the other people on my team, are being paid an equitable rate for the work that they are doing, for the skills and experience they bring to a project, and for the time that they're spending on it.
[00:14:36] Rachel: but ultimately it does look different from place to place. Now I will say, I am in this place of trying to navigate, You know what to do with this law degree and, this change management piece, which a lot of people are coming, to gladiator for, and my business coach is like, you should be charging, you know, at least like 50 percent over what your rate is, and, you know, at this point, depending on the client, like, I, my [00:15:00] rate might be 200.
[00:15:01] Rachel: It might be 500. Like it just, it sort of depends on the work. and like anything over 500, I'm like,
[00:15:10] Rachel: and so I do have this hype person that is like, you are that great. That is the math. And I like need you to lean into this comfort. And so like, what often surprises me and why I worked with my business coach, Christie, she has a consultancy here in St. Louis called purpose first advisors. She started working with me in 2017, just as a coach.
[00:15:27] Rachel: And then came on a couple of years ago, as our fractional COO, she'll like say these things to me. I think that they just sound so wild. And then we will try it and it like happens very seamlessly and smoothly and I'm like, oh, so this was just me getting in my own way. And when I like leaned into the discomfort of like my own value and contributions, people were like, yeah, great.
[00:15:55] Rachel: Where do I sign? Okay. Jess
[00:15:59] Cindy: and I have so many [00:16:00] questions. the first I want to come back to that, imposter syndrome and trying it, but first I actually want to So I wanted to ask to talk a little bit about you said equitable rate, and then, which I know in my community, we talk a lot about that because our benchmarks are in the sector are not equitable to begin with.
[00:16:22] Cindy: And so it's really hard for people to work their way around that so I want to ask like, how do you consider what equitable is, what does that mean. And. Knowing that even after that, when you're pushed by your coach on what to charge, there's so much more room, right? There's so much more room for growth.
[00:16:48] Cindy: So how do you think about that? What do you use to consider what equitable means and, all of that good stuff?
[00:16:56] Rachel: Yeah. So I would love to tell you [00:17:00] that there's like a spreadsheet or a process. I mean, there is a magical formula, whatever, right? Like there's some inputs and outputs and you're going to get this like linear answer.
[00:17:11] Rachel: and, and what I will say for, for me, a couple of things when my. When I, you know, sort of decided to bring my business coach on, as the fractional CEO, one of the components there for me is that my personal life had changed and my, you know, ex and I decided to, legally separate, which meant that I was going to, have to take on a lot of the expenses of raising my children, of having my own home of, you know, doing lots of things that I had been sharing with someone.
[00:17:37] Rachel: And so the first starting point for me is how much money does Rachel need to make? To be able to support herself to support her children to be able to save for college and save for retirement, right? And so had to engage with a lot of different experts, right? To sort of figure out, okay, like, what is a number that feelsthat feels stable, right?
[00:17:59] Rachel: Because we [00:18:00] also know that when people are worried about their basic expenses and living needs, it's hard to do other things, right? And so that was sort of really the first phase for me. Like, what do I need? For this work to happen. and I often ask that question of our employees, and our contractors as well.
[00:18:19] Rachel: So people will, you know, come in and say, Hey, I'm interested in working with you, or I'll see someone's work and be like, Oh, my gosh, I would love to collaborate. Like, let's talk about what kind of life you want and what kind of, experiences you want to have. And like, so I can, you know, figure out what that looks like.
[00:18:35] Rachel: And so we have some people on our team, who really like, you know, 90 an hour, really gives them what they need, to be able to afford the things they want to afford in like whatever their living structure looks like. I have some people who've been really clear, like, Oh, I need like a salary. I want to work my way up to here.
[00:18:55] Rachel: And like, this is why. And so have really sort of tried to work with [00:19:00] people,on sort of an individual basis to sort of figure out, okay, like, what, what does success look like for you? And like, what do you need to like live and thrive? And like, let's figure out how to build that together. and so there's that piece of it.
[00:19:12] Rachel: And then again, like we sort of take those expectations and those numbers and sort of, that's what we plug into, like the actual, like, you know, project planning spreadsheet to be able to say, okay, like, if we have like these partners in this document. or I'm sorry, excuse me, on this project, like, what kind of factors and math do we need to use that I get to have smart people on this project that they feel really good about the work they're doing and my client is getting what they need?
[00:19:36]
[00:19:41] Rachel, we are back with another round of rapid fire questions. You ready? I feel nervous, but yeah, go for it. You got this, girl. Okay, so you have hired a many of people during your last 10 years. What is your favorite or maybe more most effective interview question?[00:20:00]
[00:20:02] Rachel: Ooh, I think that's going to be, tell me what you want your lifetime achievement story to be in 25 to 30 years. Good one.
[00:20:13] You literally named your business after, a character kind of, persona in a TV show, so I'm currently wondering what is your favorite TV series, TV show? What are you watching that's maybe not a rerun?
[00:20:29] Rachel: Yes, I just, I just started watching A Discovery of Witches, and, Black Dove is currently queued up, in my Netflix.
[00:20:39] Okay.
[00:20:40] Rachel: Okay.
[00:20:41] strong like female character lead. Oh yeah. I'm getting a little bit, just a little bit. And then my last question is, you mentioned in our interview that you love to cook.
[00:20:52] What's your favorite food or cuisine? Any holiday recipes?
[00:20:59] Rachel: there [00:21:00] are legitimately no favorites. I love the process of cooking and then eating the thing that we made. and. I would say so a good friend of mine, last year for the holidays gifted me and my kids, the New York Times recipes of record cookbook.
[00:21:16] Rachel: It is like a, it is not an app. It is like the literal, like very heavy cookbook. and so, Pretty much a few times a month. My kids will pick out a recipe and we will make it together. And it's things I've never made. So we have, we made a enormous lasagna that had like four different kinds of meat and like three pounds of cheese.
[00:21:36] Rachel: We've made a tiramisu. We've made Korean barbecue chicken. we did a paella. And so I think for me, if it tastes good and I'm making it with people I love and I get to share with people I love, like that's, that's the favorite, that's the favorite meal.
[00:21:49] Absolutely. Okay. Great job. Thanks for playing.
[00:21:56] Jess: Okay, I love all that. [00:22:00] I think that's so thoughtful. I've actually just been thinking a lot about, like, just in my personal life around, like, What small business versus like corporate business and, and the role that small business owners play and how really they're so, so, so, so, so, so, so different. And just, I've been thinking a lot about it.
[00:22:20] Jess: And I also wonder with. What you just said, like, how do you square that with the reality of clients not thinking that way? Right? Like, I'm actually going back and forth with a client right now that, as I say this out loud, is probably my sign that they're not my right client, who's just trying to whittle down every single thing that I do.
[00:22:47] Jess: You know, at, The end of the day, so many nonprofits, not all of them, but so many are really just focused on a price point, versus quality of service versus equitable [00:23:00] pricing versus all sorts of stuff. And so I'm just wondering how you marry your values with your team, with the reality that's going on.
[00:23:08] Jess: So many clients aren't thinking about it through that lens. There actually is something I try and, educate my personal audience on a lot around like what you're, supporting when you use a small business, like Out in the Boons, which is my company, you're, you're actually donating to these causes and you're ensuring my daughter gets, a high quality Spanish tutor.
[00:23:32] Jess: And you're doing all these things versus like. Shopping with the Walmarts of non profit consulting and, and You know, it doesn't always line up or it takes an extreme amount of education. So I'm just wondering how you, you match the two because it's hard.
[00:23:49] Rachel: So, I mean, I think you said it somewhere in there, like, Oh, maybe this organization, like, is it actually my client?
[00:23:55] Rachel: I will first say like, The people that find me or find gladiator, [00:24:00] generally are pretty values aligned from the starting point. though they might not know or understand sort of what the behavior piece looks like. And so, sort of referring back again to that sort of like, Client pre assessment, like having a conversation to understand, like how things show up having a pretty frank conversation about the budget for work before we engage.
[00:24:21] Rachel: So like if someone sends us an RFP and it doesn't have a budget range, I will ask for it. for it. And if we don't get it, we're not gonna apply for it. I absolutely need to understand what you want, what your board wants. I also understand that sometimes the board is a little bit more disconnected, you know, than staff and may be like, Oh yeah, we could do this, you know, a year's worth of work for like 30, 000.
[00:24:42] Rachel: And I'm like, that's not realistic at all. And if someone agrees to do it for that amount, you might not be getting what you think you want. so, so there is a fair amount of education. when we are talking organizations, we [00:25:00] really want to work with, about their projects and they have, you know, a budget that might not, you know, Compensate my big idea for what it should look like.
[00:25:09] Rachel: That means that we have less people. That means that it takes less time. That means that it might look more collaborative and we're asking for them to do some of the components of the work. but I, you know, early in my earlier days sort of learned the hard way that you don't, Change your hourly rate.
[00:25:26] Rachel: You don't change your project costs, to get the client because likely you're going to do double the work and it's going to quite frankly be triple the pain in the ass for you. Sorry. I don't know if we do bad words on this. Like, yeah, yeah. So, we've found ourselves in the position of saying like, we're not it for y'all.
[00:25:46] Rachel: and that's okay. Like here are some other folks that we trust who may be more aligned with what you're looking for. but I don't know that you actually want to do the work the way that we do the work and like, that's okay. So like, let's not force it. [00:26:00] and I think when I've shown up that way, that has allowed for More trusting and sustainable relationships with organizations, and then they know when to come to us, right?
[00:26:10] Rachel: So they might not be a client right now. but they're going to be a client in two years or three years or five years. and that actually feels much better than saying yes in the moment for a revenue bump or because, you know, I'm really energized about the issue they're focusing on. And then. Hating it, having terrible boundaries, wanting it to be over.
[00:26:31] Rachel: Like the, that's, it's just an experience that you don't, you don't need to go through it, you don't need to put your team through it.
[00:26:39] Jess: For sure. I love the practice of saying no so that you can make room for a yes. The right yes. you just mentioned that projects find you. I'm curious if you're just at a business stage after being around for 10 years where you're not actually having to do much business development, or if, you just have enough [00:27:00] inbound, where you're able to kind of pick and choose who you work with, or if you do have a business Development strategy.
[00:27:06] Jess: Like, what does that look like?
[00:27:08] Rachel: Yeah, so, I would say in the beginning, so back in like 2015, 2016, 2017, you know, I had been working full time at a non profit organization, before I left to start my consultancy, and so when I left, sort of immediately people were like, Ooh, you're not there anymore.
[00:27:24] Rachel: Will you like help us plan this event? Will you like write this grant? Can you like, you know, do our development plan? and so definitely sort of had that vibe. And it was with organizations who truthfully had like. younger executive directors or executive directors who just were tired of playing the like politics of philanthropy and the politics of fundraising and really wanted to just sort of have an honest conversation about what they need to do their work and like get it.
[00:27:52] Rachel: and so, that sort of feeling like people finding us because we're values aligned has sort of continued [00:28:00] to proliferate. I would say that we went through in this sort of like 2019 through like 2022 period, we went through the like, let's respond to RFPs.it's that ick. Well, and so now I think that, if I'm thinking about our sort of claims going into next year, most of them are organizations who, found us and asked us to submit something and we're sort of very clear about what they wanted.
[00:28:32] Rachel: there are maybe. Three or four, RFPs that were sent our way that were very aligned that we're going to pursue. and so, you know, when I think of business development for gladiator. It really, it looks a couple different ways. and again, if my business coach was here, she'd be like chattering behind me.
[00:28:53] Rachel: but like, I think it's important to maintain relationships with all kinds of people [00:29:00] across your community. and so the sort of relationship maintenance for me is business development. It is an investment in my business, even if Even if I'm not going to do work with that person or that organization, they will say my name in other rooms.
[00:29:13] Rachel: And that feels really exciting. Or they'll say Gladiator's name in other rooms. I will, like, every once in a while, I will sort of scour the internet for RFPs or sort of look at those kinds of things. And the language that a lot of organizations use doesn't really Align with the way that we do our work.
[00:29:33] Rachel: And so again, like how much labor do I want to do in the space of educating and growing and bringing or sometimes like dragging people along? And how much do I sort of want an authentic connection and sort of an authentic space of shared values to guide things? I would say it is an ebb and flow.
[00:29:54] Rachel: Sometimes that ebb and flow is in my head.sometimes I'm like, there aren't enough people in the pipeline. And Chrissy's [00:30:00] like, no, actually there are like, I need you to chill out. And then like, you know, a third of those people will say yes. And I'm like, shit.
[00:30:06] Rachel: So, so it's just sort of been like that. And I think also sort of going back to what I, was saying before about like saying yes no to projects, you know, over the course of the last 10 years, like our, You know, we've had years where we've only been at like about a half a million dollars in revenue.
[00:30:24] Rachel: We've had years where we've been, you know, right at a million. and what I'm learning just for me and my like business management style, like how much I can keep in my head, that sort of like seven 50 to 900. Feels really good for gladiator. and sometimes that has been like six clients. Sometimes that has been like 35 clients.
[00:30:51] Rachel: And so there, there is this, there is the sort of really weird, I think, math and. Combination of feelings that [00:31:00] has to happen, but at the end of the day, I sort of know there's a pretty big range that I can function in where I'm still getting what I need. The people that are part of my work are getting what they need, and that I don't have to chase things because they will find us, honestly.
[00:31:16] Jess: Okay, this is so interesting because I would say 90 percent of the folks that we interview on this podcast do not participate in RFPs. and I know, not from personal experience, because I don't think I've ever responded to an RFP in my life. but from what I hear on the streets is that they can be really time intensive.
[00:31:38] Jess: And so as you're talking right now, I'm wondering, like, How much of your time is spent in the business versus on the business? For example, you just mentioned sometimes you have anywhere from like six to like upwards of 30 clients in a calendar year. Are you doing direct services for any clients? Are you just in a managerial position?
[00:31:59] Jess: Are [00:32:00] Are your, you mentioned, I think you said you have like three directors on your team. Are they handling that and you're doing all things like CEO, like what is your role look like? Yeah,
[00:32:11] Rachel: so I would say, and I'm like putting my like IKIGAI hat on. Are y'all familiar with that? You're okay. So like, you know, what can you do?
[00:32:20] Rachel: What does the world need? What do you enjoy? What can you be paid for? I, I would say that my job, my role, my day to day probably changes quarterly, with, with intention. And so, you know, I know that in this, you know, sort of fourth quarter of the year, like I am in a more sort of business development, reconnecting with folks space, I'm sort of winding down projects.
[00:32:44] Rachel: I'm doing exit interviews. I'm getting ready for like talks. These are, you know, all those things. I tend to with our clients be involved in the project visioning. I tend to, you know, participate in like a kickoff meeting. Sometimes I'll do a little bit of [00:33:00] engagement, but really, our directors are the project managers and the contractors that we work with are really doing and advancing the work.
[00:33:08] Rachel: sometimes I feel like the warm blanket, like they'll be like, we've come to this meeting because I think they want to like see your face. And I'm like, okay, like I'll come, you know, say hi, and we'll talk and things like that. but really, you know, I will set sort of a vision or a timeline for things.
[00:33:24] Rachel: And then it's really our team that advances, our projects forward.
[00:33:31] Cindy: That is, so. Good, and it brings me to, yay, because I think you've gotten to a point where like a lot of people struggle with, and it sounds like you've found a good balance, and it brings me back to one of my previous questions around kind of like your business coach, the fractional COO, and the, you've mentioned a couple times like, mm, I was wrong about that.
[00:33:59] Cindy: I was wrong. [00:34:00] Like I learned something new and changed my belief about something and I'd love to chat a little bit about that, because I think that everyone struggles with imposter syndrome. we are trained in a sector that devalues us. as people and our time and our expertise. And so there's lots of these things that feel really hard.
[00:34:22] Cindy: I love to hear the things that have shifted the most or the biggest kind of like, Whoa, I was wrong. that you've experienced as a business owner working in the nonprofit sector.
[00:34:37] Rachel: Yeah. so I think On sort of one hand, I have sort of thought of myself as, like, a bad capitalist, or maybe a person that, like, did not want to sort of play in the, like, abusive capitalism sandbox, which I try really [00:35:00] hard not to. and so, At moments over the course of the last 10 years when my business was financially successful, it made me really uncomfortable.
[00:35:11] Rachel: And I was like, are we charging too much? Am I not like using these resources, you know, in the highest and best use? Like, Do I deserve this? and it took me a lot of therapy, a lot of critical friends, a lot of like external validation truly to be like, okay, you are busting your ass. You are now, you know, solo parent who went to law school at 40, like, and are running a, like, nationally recognized business, like, girl, go get it.
[00:35:50] Rachel: and so I, there is like a bit of self talk that I have to do with myself to also sort of [00:36:00] be clear that when I started out in this space, Nobody was interested. Nobody in St. Louis was interested in the work that I was doing or the way that I was doing it. And it almost felt like, you know, gather up fundraising gatherings at whatever, like, Oh, like, but she's going to sit at the kid's table.
[00:36:18] Rachel: Right. Cause the adults are going to keep doing like the important work of raising money. and then when gladiator became what I would say really successful, I think it was really surprising because I didn't, Follow the rules that other consultants, especially white women like consultant fees, were doing.
[00:36:36] Rachel: Like, I'm not gonna like charge you a ton of money for a strategic plan and then like, peace out, right? Like you're stuck with me for accountability. Like that's part of what we do. Like, and so I think part of it was sort of saying you, you chose a different path, but how to say path was successful and people need what you're doing.
[00:36:57] Rachel: So like, feel good about [00:37:00] the fact that people are choosing you to invest their resources with.I think the other thing, and I don't know that this is like, A right or wrong place. but I've been thinking about courage lately. and I've seen, you know, some of my other peers, in the sector who are, you know, progressive, who are invested in, in liberation, justice, Who have been punished for telling the truth and because of that have, have felt the sort of scarcity have had people say, actually, no, you can't come speak at my event or actually, no, we're not going to do this work with you.
[00:37:40] Rachel: and. I, you know, again, with the self talk I've had to be like, what kind of person do you want to be in your business? What kind of. Parent you want to be? What kind of community member do you need to be? And what does that mean that you say out loud? Like, even if it's uncomfortable, even if people don't want to hear it, even if [00:38:00] people are upset, even if it might hurt your business in the short term.
[00:38:04] Rachel: and so we've, we've gone through that. Like I advocated hard for a client that we did work with who was experiencing backlash because of some racial equity, commitments that they made and it was hard and On the side, I have people coming up to me being like, thank you for doing what you're doing.
[00:38:22] Rachel: And I'm like, could you post that online? And they're like, no, I'm not going to say anything publicly about it, but you go right. And so, you know, putting yourself and your values out there, can be really uncomfortable. I don't think that it is for, I don't want to say for the week, but I think that you have to be able to consider the variety of possibilities that will come out of your actions and understand how much risk you are willing to take on to be authentic and true to yourself and to the work that you want to do.
[00:38:58] Rachel: and I think that's an [00:39:00] ongoing journey, this journey of like, Being very courageous in public, that feels very intentional for me.
[00:39:09] Cindy: I wish we had like a whole other episode to talk about that. And I really, really don't want to move on because I actually think we need to talk a lot more about it, but we are running out of time.
[00:39:21] Cindy: And so we're going to have to have, yes, we're going to have you back. we've actually talked about this a little bit on the podcast before as well. So we, it's a great follow up conversation. so I'm putting a, a pin in that one. well, and can we just say like,
[00:39:36] I would love to hear Rachel like just really quickly, like, do you have an example or, I don't know.
[00:39:44] I'm just thinking like, we have a lot of white women on listening to this show and I'm like, it is shocking to me that more people aren't practicing allyship. Mm-hmm . And. I'm just curious if you've ever had an experience with a white woman where they, like, did the right [00:40:00] thing.
[00:40:00] Cindy: I don't know. Can you think somewhere in your experience over the last ten years where a white woman has done something right?
[00:40:06] Cindy: No, not that,
[00:40:07] but just,
[00:40:08] Cindy: like,
[00:40:08] have
[00:40:08] Cindy: you ever had anyone? Yeah!
[00:40:10] And if the answer is no, like, here's the call to action for everyone.
[00:40:16] Rachel: I'm glad this isn't a video podcast. They can't see my face. Or is it? I don't know. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. So here's what, here's what I'll say. I think I can, I can think of literally one white woman, maybe two that, that I really trust, with my clients.
[00:40:45] Rachel: Who have shown up as allies.there are, there are many women that I respect and whose work that I respect, but I, I have not worked closely enough with them to know, like, Oh, actually, here's, you know, [00:41:00] what's happening. you know, I, I think with the, with this sector, we have to understand how we got here.
[00:41:14] Rachel: We have to understand who was making the rules. We have to understand where the money was. And if we are. Both responsible to our peers and our colleagues in our community now. And if we want to be good ancestors to the people who come after us, we have to be willing to make very intentional decisions around.
[00:41:37] Rachel: And so I shared earlier, like that it's really important for me to work with other women of color. And I know that in St. Louis, Missouri, and in the United States.we don't just have racism, right? We have anti blackness. I know that it is easier for me, as a lighter skinned Indian American woman, who grew up speaking English, [00:42:00] who is college educated, who is, like, tiny and, like, physically acceptable, right?
[00:42:05] Rachel: Like, I know that it's easier for me to get into rooms. I know that it is easier for me to connect with wealth. And so, I have to be intentional about bringing other non white people, to bring people with disabilities, to bring practitioners with other marginalized identities into this work and make them visible to the organizations and people that have money.
[00:42:34] Rachel: Because if I can help build trust, then when a scope for Gladiator is over, You don't need to work with me anymore, but you do need to work with this person because they're going to take you down this other road because they're smart. I think that I'm not smart at, right? And I want there to be a community and a pipeline.
[00:42:55] Rachel: And that requires us to really radically abandon [00:43:00] scarcity, to understand that when we can sit in abundance, we raise all ships. That doesn't mean it's not going to hurt in the short term, but it means that you are building something different and like we all benefit from that.
[00:43:16] So true. Thank you for that.
[00:43:18] Thank you for that example because that is something 100 percent of people can practice. you're so mindful and thoughtful and, in some ways my, I'm just like, like why is that responsibility on you and that should be on me and all the other people listening to this and Girl, take it. I will give you here.
[00:43:37] It is. It is. It is shoved in my pocket and always on my shoulder. And, I appreciate that responsibility, but it breaks my heart that you don't see that as the norm. And that means we still have a lot of work to do. So, as a white woman, I'm calling on other white women listening right now. Time to, step up, step back, step out, step loud, [00:44:00] step, step, step, step, step.
[00:44:01] especially as we're in this new year. Come on. Pay it.
[00:44:03] Cindy: Pay it forward. Pay it forward. And just to like underscore, because this came up at the very beginning of the conversation, your behavior is more important than anything you say or post or anything like that. That is where allyship lives, where action and activism lives.
[00:44:26] Cindy: So I will just wrap, bring it right back to the beginning and we will have this conversation in more detail and in more depth, because we need to have it probably a million times over. So, all right, before we wrap up one more time, but, we always ask for a confession and you've been so open. so is there, can you think of one more confession to share with our audience?
[00:44:53] Rachel: There are some days where, [00:45:00] like I told you, I intentionally pick sort of really hard and complex things where I want to, like, go to the woods and just lots of food, and feed lots of people and would love for that to be, my existence. Well, totally. Set it up. We'll come. If you follow my Instagram, or at least my personal one, you know that my son and I do a lot of cooking together, but sometimes I'm like, I could just not do this.
[00:45:30] Rachel: And I could just cook. All day and like read books and whatever, and that would be like a really lovely soft like
[00:45:41] Cindy: Hear that you're not cooking for me, but all the other stuff. Yeah, it just knows. I don't I I will cook for you. I'll come in. I'll cook with you. Yeah, you will come i'll come eat Yeah. Sure.
[00:45:54] Cindy: And I'll clean up, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:58] I Thank you so much, Rachel. [00:46:00]
[00:46:00] Cindy: Of course. Thank you. This was so lovely. For people who don't know you online, aren't connected, where should they, they find you?
[00:46:09] Rachel: Yep. So you can find, me, Rachel D'Souza and Gladiator on LinkedIn. we also have a great newsletter we send out once a month.
[00:46:16] Rachel: You're welcome to sign up for on our website, which is www.gladiatorrds.com. and because I'm an old millennial, I'm like on Instagram and I have two accounts there. I have a personal account, which is, again, like the foodie and, you know, family account. And then I do have a public facing account, where you can learn more about gladiator's work.
[00:46:37] Rachel: and then Gladiator also has its own account on Instagram as well.
[00:46:40] Awesome. It's been a pleasure. This is wonderful. Thanks so much.