From Office Buddies to Business Partners with Sarah Staiger
I didn’t expect becoming a consultant would mean how seen I would have to be. As a nonprofit fundraiser, it was never about me. But putting myself out there now has made me a better coach for fundraisers because I know how it feels. - Sarah Staiger
From Office Buddies to Business Partners with Sarah Staiger
Ever wondered what it's really like to ditch your nonprofit job and start a consulting business with your work buddy? Today, we're pulling back the curtain on that exact scenario. No sugar-coating, no BS - just the raw, unfiltered truth about what it takes to build a values-driven consulting firm from the ground up.
Sarah Steiger joins us to share the rollercoaster journey of how she and her former boss, Laura, transitioned from nonprofit employees to co-founders of Steiger Vitelli and Associates. Buckle up, because this conversation gets real fast.
From their "aha" moment on Laura's back porch to navigating the murky waters of pricing and client acquisition, Sarah holds nothing back. We dive deep into the nitty-gritty of building a business that aligns with your values (hello, community-centric fundraising!) while still paying the bills.
But it's not all sunshine and rainbows, folks. Sarah gets real about the challenges of putting yourself out there as a consultant and dealing with criticism. Spoiler alert: sometimes it involves hiding under the covers with your dog for a few hours. (No judgment here!)
Key Takeaways:
Volunteer gigs can be a goldmine for future clients. Don't underestimate the power of showing up and doing good work, even when you're not getting paid.
Your values can be your superpower. Sarah and Laura's commitment to community-centric fundraising principles has become their unique selling point.
Partnerships can be a game-changer. Two heads (and two sets of skills) really can be better than one when it comes to building a consulting business.
Self-care isn't just a buzzword. It's crucial for surviving the emotional rollercoaster of entrepreneurship. Sometimes that means taking a mid-day break to ugly cry or read a book.
Pricing is an art, not a science. Don't be afraid to get creative with your pricing structure to align with your values and serve your ideal clients.
Look, starting a consulting business isn't for the faint of heart. It's messy, it's challenging, and sometimes it downright sucks. But for those of you ready to take the leap, this episode is packed with hard-earned wisdom and practical insights. Whether you're just starting out or looking to level up your existing practice, Sarah's story will give you plenty to chew on.
Timestamp summary:
[00:01:31] Introduction of Sarah Staiger from Staiger Vitelli and Associates
[00:02:58] Sarah explains her firm's focus on consulting for mission-driven nonprofits and community-centric fundraising
[00:05:12] Sarah shares the origin story of her partnership with Laura Vitelli and the founding of their business
[00:07:31] Discussion of the risks and transition from nonprofit work to consulting, and the importance of a safety net
[00:12:36] Reflecting on the chaotic early days of the business and the importance of clear communication
[00:13:27] Sarah describes their pricing model, project-based work, and the retainer system they use with clients
[00:15:51] Explanation of additional services offered beyond fundraising, including strategic planning and governance work
[00:19:00] Evolution of the business, refining their offerings, and creating clear service packages with transparent pricing
[00:20:39] Sarah discusses how they manage overhead with two principals in the business and balance client workloads
[00:22:00] Offering a 40% discount for BIPOC-led organizations to address systemic disparities in funding
[00:26:15] Business development strategies focusing on word of mouth, volunteer work, and community engagement
[00:29:17] The challenge of educating clients about community-centric fundraising principles and offering free resources
[00:33:35] Sarah opens up about the vulnerability of putting herself out there as a consultant and business owner
[00:36:50] Discussion of handling criticism, feedback, and the importance of having a support network
[00:39:00] Sarah and Jess talk about the power of taking breaks, self-care, and saying no to protect mental health
[00:47:26] Closing remarks and information on how to connect with Sarah and Staiger Vitelli online
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com
Connect with Sarah:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/staigervitelli/
Website: https://www.staigervitelli.com/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/
Transcript:
[00:01:31] Cindy: Hey Jess. Back again. Back again. Back. All of you are listening, you're like, what are you talking about? It's been a week, but we record in batches. So it's back-to-back for us today, but we're rounding out the day with a final interview with Sarah Steiger from Steiger Vitelli Did I get it right? And associates, I think, is, yeah, and associates.
[00:02:00] and I'm super excited to dive into this conversation. I, there's a good story here. So, Sarah, please, introduce yourself to our listeners. Tell us who you are, what you do, and how you get paid.
[00:02:16] Sarah: Hello, I'm just gonna do what probably many people do is to say how fun it is to be on this show with Jess and Cindy.
[00:02:25] Definitely fangirl my partner Laura and I. I'm Sarah Steiger. I'm the Steiger in Steiger Vitale and Associates. And, we are consultants for mission-driven folks. We work mostly with nonprofits, sometimes a few artists here and there. and we make our money mostly by consulting and coaching with individuals and teams doing fundraising, communications, strategy, and organizing.
[00:02:53] And we do all of that through a community-centric fundraising lens. And with a really deep focus on our [00:03:00] values. And so I'm a consultant. That's how I get paid.
[00:03:05] Jess: Okay, love it. And I know there's a story, an origin story. I don't even know the story, but we heard it just off-camera quickly. But, I have to ask, is community-centric fundraising something you've always practiced?
[00:03:17] Were you an in-house fundraiser practicing those methods? Or is that something that you all adopted later and saw a, a need for?
[00:03:29] Sarah: Definitely saw a need for, I remember, I think it was, 2017 maybe when Vule's first post came out on the previous name of Nonprofit AF. And which I learned recently was actually Nonprofit with Balls was about, juggling balls, not balls.
[00:03:51] Jess: No, really? A play on words.
[00:03:55] Cindy: Directly from Vu, okay, but. Really? Or is this like a [00:04:00] cleaning up of the story? Who let us know,
[00:04:02] Sarah: right?
[00:04:02] Cindy: Yeah.
[00:04:04] Sarah: Anyway, I so appreciated the disruptive nature of that post. And I was like, who is this? And what is happening in Seattle? just got hooked.
[00:04:15] My colleagues and I at the time was working for the organization where I met my current business partner, Laura Vitale. She was my boss at the time, which is another story.and was for the whole time I was there. but it just resonated. And before there was a movement, which I remember vividly, like breaking zoom and being at part of that first, like gathering online.
[00:04:38] And I just remember thinking like, Oh,This is in response to how I feel like gross about so much of the work of fundraising and There is actually at least one human in the world out there who says you can do it differently, and so I just, started practicing some things and making a ton of mistakes.
[00:04:57] I have way more mistakes as a staff [00:05:00] fundraiser doing CCF than I have wins, but some of the wins have really worked, and I've just tried to repeat them, and that's what we, Laura and I, that's why we quit our staff jobs, to repeat those wins with other folks.
[00:05:12] Cindy: That's awesome. We have so much love for the CCF movement, including like many friends who are practitioners.
[00:05:19] okay, let's get into the origin story because, yeah. Tell us about how this business and business partnership came to be.
[00:05:29] Sarah: I'm feeling vulnerable, but, so I started just a little bit before Laura did on the team at the place where we worked, really amazing, deeply affordable housing nonprofit.
[00:05:39] and so I got to help hire her. So I think there was something about that dynamic that was probably special. It gave me some privilege. I had been there for three months. Like I wasn't like, I didn't have a lot of clout, but I had. And then she just was able to really give me a lot of leadership ability.
[00:05:57] Like I, she noticed that I could do [00:06:00] shit and I did it. And we worked together for 10 years and we volunteered together too on in Minnesota and in the States we have. and so is it around the world? I guess the association of fundraising professionals. Which frankly, we spent a lot of time complaining about some of the ways that we didn't like the way that work was happening and maybe bonded like a little bit outside of work around some of hey, wouldn't it be cool if it was like this or like that?
[00:06:24] And then we did some of that work together as volunteers. And in some of those moments, they were just, as people became consultants in that community of fundraisers, we were like, huh. I remember Laura saying one day, maybe it's time for me to have my own shingle. And I just remember like storing that in the back of my brain.
[00:06:41] I don't even know if she knows this story told this way, to be honest. So it'll be funny when she hears that she can comment if she feels, remembers it differently. And then one day I was probably having a bad day at work, honestly, in this organization that I still like deeply love, but we all have our bad days.
[00:06:57] And I was like, were you serious about that? And [00:07:00] I said, if you are, I am, and we should talk. this is over text and she said, give me a little time to talk to my family and I'll get back to you either way. And I was like, I'm either going to get fired or I'm gonnahave to be a consultant alone or I don't know, something else.
[00:07:19] And, she texted me back about a week later and was like, I'm in, come over, let's talk about it. And we sealed the deal with a handshake and a margarita on her back porch.
[00:07:31] Cindy: I love it.okay, that's super exciting and freaking terrifying. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about that transition period because it's one thing where you're like, oh my god, I need to pay myself.
[00:07:49] But now you're like, and, We're like co responsible for each other leaving our jobs. the money's got to come in and all that kind of stuff. Walk us through those early [00:08:00] days and how you got set up and, you know, what you prioritized and how it went.
[00:08:06] Sarah: Yeah, I am like getting my body heat is just rising right now, like even just thinking of those days because it was just such a risk, you know, and,you know, having each other was like the first giant milestone.
[00:08:19] It was like somebody I'd worked with for 10 years who I deeply trusted, who I knew had a very different skill set for me, but who knew what mine was and I knew what hers was. So that was like. The thing I just kept leaning on, like we have been through so much. She knows where I fall down. I know where she falls down.
[00:08:38] We've had hard moments that we've somehow gotten through.talk about shared livelihood, like her daughter was my kid's babysitter. Like I could lose my child care if this goes badly. In addition, Um, but the other stuff that just to be really real, like we both have partners and we went and talked to our partners [00:09:00] and I felt so privileged.
[00:09:02] like really clearly that wouldn't have been possible had I not had health insurance through my partner. and that was the case, I think for both of us. mine covered and Laura's, like partially paid for it through her partner's insurance. That was like thing one. It's okay, that feels covered.
[00:09:21] So can we move on? So there's my plug for what would happen if everyone had health care, right? In the US, we don't have that. That would be great. And that let me take additional risks, which I could do again, because I had a little bit of a safety net in terms of savings. And then I talked to my people and like went to my closest colleague friends and was like, do you think I can do this?
[00:09:44] And I just was, I laid it bare with them and I got some positive feedback. And I think Laura did the same. then we just jumped all in. We're like, We can always go back to work and we're just going to take every risk essentially, and I suppose [00:10:00] not every risk, but we're going to do the scary things and do our best.
[00:10:05] And it's always gotten us a long way before. So we're going to cross our fingers that it will again.
[00:10:11] Jess: Okay. Super helpful. and I think Cindy would agree with me that. At least from the folks that we've interviewed on the show, people who team up seem to go twice as fast and far as those who go solo. and so I'm just curious if that's been the experience from you from the get go, like, were you both out there hustling to, do biz dev?
[00:10:35] Was that really someone's, more skillset versus. Maybe someone else is on like the execution side of the projects like talk to us just a little bit about like how that first Navigating you had the experience of working with one another which I think is so beneficial Right, but it's also a brand new thing and you're starting this thing from scratch [00:11:00] So there's also a lot of stuff to figure out.
[00:11:01] So yeah, I'm just curious If our theory rings true, I guess
[00:11:06] Sarah: Yeah,I don't think I could have been as successful like mentally, financially, just the fun I've had doing this job without Laura, for sure. And, I guess I would say unless you just like love, love solo work. It's really nice to have like that, like relay where it's like, okay, I've got three leads right now for BizDev.
[00:11:31] I'm going to go hard on this. can you like run point it's the term we use all the time I used to play basketball and like to coach and like run point on these other projects so I can go. Heavy here because I'm, you know, we use our fundraising skills. Like I'm just the right person for these three, but these three, we have in a pipeline sort of that, that have been like maybe toying around the edges of like, will they get some support from us or someone else or not?
[00:11:53] Like you're going to be the point person for them. Clearly, Laura has 10 more years of experience than I [00:12:00] do. she is like a ultra planner and like so fricking organized. And I am a fast thinker, a quick talker, an organizer, a disruptor. I like to make jokes in the wrong moment and wield my power, frankly, I'll just, those are all the things I guess you need to know about me.
[00:12:18] If you want me to leave the podcast now, I still can. but we know we want you to stay right where you are.yeah. and like to your, some of your other questions about like, how did we get it started? It was just like a big mess. I don't know if anybody out there who's thinking about it or doing it right now is like, Oh, I'm doing it wrong.
[00:12:36] Like, we've been very successful and it was a bunch of spreadsheety methods. We were spread shit and all over ourselves. And we still, and then we still did it, like it was fine. It was good. and we just would make a bunch of notes and decide who was going to do what and have really strong communication about who was taking the next step, just like you would in fundraising.
[00:12:57] just use those skills we had to Yeah, [00:13:00] system that we have. Yeah.
[00:13:01] Jess: Oh my gosh. I'm dying dead over spread shitting. That is so good. Rachel Beerbauer, if you're listening, like you need to adopt that. That is hysterical. okay. Talk to us about how you get paid. Do you get paid by project? Do you get paid by the hour?
[00:13:22] Do you have recurring revenue? Like, how do you all get paid?
[00:13:27] Sarah: Yeah, so the majority, like 80 to 90 percent of our revenue comes from project based, Slash retainer contracts. Most of them are kind of longer term. the larger ones are six to 12 months. Typically, sometimes 18 if we're running we do campaign work.
[00:13:48] We do community centric fundraising principles applied to a campaign model fundraising campaign and we're still Specialists for comprehensive campaigns. So like when you're [00:14:00] doing operating and capital, so those of course take 18 months, but the vast majority of it are retainer based or project based, like monthly payments every, and it's hard sometimes we don't get paid on time.
[00:14:14] So we're like figuring out how to juggle that. And then we have a small, smaller bit of income that comes from like what we would call kind of our one to many opportunities for people to, buy our kind of light to touch coaching package for values based appeals. So if you want to do an appeal yourself, but you need a little bit of coaching, it's like 297.
[00:14:35] Here's everything we have. Take it, run with it. And that's,like something that doesn't require as much face time. We're trying to grow that we're not great at that yet. I think the offer is good. We just aren't selling that many of them yet. and then values based major giving Academy is our other, eight week.
[00:14:53] in person coaching on how to get up or improve, stand up or improve your major giving process with community [00:15:00] centric principles and values at the center. And that's still just a small portion, like 10 percent maybe of our revenue. But I hope it grows because then more people get access to CCF at a lower price point.
[00:15:12] And that's the ultimate goal. it also gives me more breaks, which is nice too. I have little children and I want breaks. I don't want to work my tail off. I want to enjoy this earth we live on. Definitely. Can I answer your question? Yes.
[00:15:28] Cindy: when you first introduced yourself, you said you do fundraising, campaign strategy, there were a couple other things in there.
[00:15:39] is your focus on fundraising or do you have other areas of work that you guys like, is that all under the umbrella of fundraising or do you do like strategic planning or other types of work?
[00:15:51] Sarah: Yeah, the factor that. The consistent factor through all the different types of work that we do is a fundraising move money to [00:16:00] mission focus, but we do strategic planning.
[00:16:04] We do, we've worked with organizations to do governance for coalitions. because we have some experience, working, Laura actually was the VP when we were staff fundraisers together. She oversaw the organizing team, the communications team, and the fundraising team. And I managed, I was the director of the fundraising team.
[00:16:22] So she's got that top level knowledge in all those three buckets. And I did graduate work in advocacy and political leadership. So we really approach fundraising from an organizing perspective. But everything we do, which do fall in all those lots of buckets, as you said, maybe y'all can coach me offline on whether that's too messy to share.
[00:16:45] But everything we do is about something we call, we've learned from our organizer friends, the power equation. So organized people plus organized money. equals power for change. So if it touches that, [00:17:00] which we think comes, we think fundraising, we think organizing and strategy all touch that power equation.
[00:17:05] If it touches that power equation, we offer something, to support it.
[00:17:12] Cindy: I love that. I think it's very clear and I'm curious how you communicate that in your business development or communications. because when you, that equation is awesome. whoever came up with that is fantastic.
[00:17:27] But I know for people, sometimes when they do too many things, they find it hard to find work or the kind of work that they want to be doing. but it sounds like you're actually pretty, you're doing it really well, and you do a lot of things. Or, yeah,how has that been? What has been your learning along the way?
[00:17:49] For those of you who can't see, you're I don't know if we're doing it well from your facial expressions, so tell me what you want to improve.
[00:17:56] Sarah: Yeah, we're three years old this [00:18:00] month,so, oh, like, actually, I guess we turned We've been doing this for three years.
[00:18:03] We turned four.and I would say this version of us that you're hearing todayis a little bit of a cleaned up streamlined version, thanks to my brilliant partner, Laura, I would just be out there rocking and rolling with whatever people need and telling people, yes, I have that experience or no, I don't.
[00:18:22] But we got really clear this year on packages like this package for this thing. And so our website. Um, that's one of our wins for the year is if you want planning, here are the things we offer in the price points we try to be really clear about and transparent about our pricing. Even though it certainly is based on the scale and scope of what the client wants, but we want to Put a, at least a scale out there.
[00:18:49] So we got that done this year. Shout out to Maria Rio, who really works with us to help convince us to go further together, to make that more clear for people. [00:19:00] So I think just continuing to make that ever more clear is a goal. but. We like the variety. Early on when we were just doing whatever people needed us to do because they knew us, which is how we started, you know, our first leads were people who knew us that worked with us and they were like, oh my gosh, like I've got a project for you.
[00:19:17] Thank you, those people. we did get, we were, we decided, what we do and don't like. We don't write grants, for example.long story, I'll leave it for another day, but, but we, Yeah, I guess what we're working on is just becoming more clear with what those offers are and putting air quotes up and like what they cost generally.
[00:19:40] So people can have that experience of like choosing what they want to invest in. they might buy something else that's important to them. I don't know, a really cool new fall sweater or like a cool, a really awesome fair trade bag of coffee from a new brand.
[00:19:58] Jess: Yeah, totally. [00:20:00] So one of the things that, I think people might forget maybe when you have kind of two principles running the business is that there is that kind of double overhead expense, right?
[00:20:14] and so I'm just curious how that plays into your all's pricing and how you price competitively. Knowing that, you have to co leaders at the top, which I'm guessing is the bulk of your expenses, compared to those solo entrepreneurs who have maybe more flexibility in their pricing because they're not having to pay.
[00:20:35] Yeah. twice the salaries or whatever.
[00:20:39] Sarah: It's a great point. And, true. I would, I think, we are the most expensive part. We are the most valuable asset in our business. Um, love that reframe. Love it. Got myself there. We were working to protect that as that too, like we can't burn ourselves out.
[00:20:57] so we do try to price in a way that. [00:21:00] Is competitive so that we can actually win contracts, but also takes care of us because we would like to be around to offer contracts and support people in the future. and this is hard work. We all do in this. But, so just to get into details, we, our hourly rate is 225.
[00:21:20] we don't, in the beginning, it was like, I was talking about it with potential clients. Thank goodness. There were people again who reached out and were like, Oh my gosh, you're doing this. This is cool. I've got a project for you. And I remember saying like, well, you get two, two for the price of one or the price of whatever you think the 225 is.
[00:21:39] And, that's not really true because we do split like I mentioned we run point on various projects, and then we pull each other in as experts in specific areas, but we've tried really hard to be intentional about where we have redundancy and overlap, so that we can. And yes,we're too [00:22:00] daft that need to get paid but we're also.
[00:22:03] two people that can, take on more contracts. We have probably double client, maybe double the clients that maybe one person could do alone. I know it's definitely double what I could do alone. so that, that helps. And then there's some efficiencies that we can create because we're together too.
[00:22:18] And we're looking, one of the goals for next year is like identifying what those are and trying to maximize some of those efficiencies. Now that we're a few years old, we're in our toddler years. The other thing on pricing that we do to stay competitive because we, we do, we are white, straight passing, privileged in a lot of ways, women, and We are like gaga for this work.
[00:22:43] we're not going to stop doing it. And we also can't and won't, and don't want to take up all the space and the air in the room. And so, it was really important us from the beginning to have a way that we could disrupt the, Capitalism that's embedded into all of our work.
[00:22:58] And so instead of [00:23:00] giving, big donations back, say to certain clients, we actually discount before money ever hits our hands by 40 percent for BIPOC led organizations. And that's just straight up because that's the. That's the percentage that we've last seen reported. Let's hope it goes down. not so I can increase my prices for BIPOC organizations, BIPOC led organizations, but because it would mean foundations are actually, giving gifts at the same level they give white led organizations.
[00:23:27] And that's the difference right now. It's 40%. So we bring that into our pricing. and I, it's, it actually makes it hard sometimes, To do the work because it is a significant discount and it's a reminder that I can give up some of my power and still be like totally fine like very good In fact, so that's I guess the lesson i've learned from doing that over the last few years with pricing and we've been successful I think we've we have a good mix of organizations small largeand in between.
[00:23:55] Cindy: I love that. And I love how you've anchored it to the funding [00:24:00] distribution, which is just so clear, and values aligned. And so that's really awesome. I love that. All right, Sarah, we are back with another round of rapid fire questions. You ready? I'm
[00:24:16] Sarah: ready.
[00:24:17] Jess: All right, cool. If you are not running your business. What would you be doing? what's your dream job in a different life?
[00:24:25] Sarah: I would be a middle school girls basketball coach.
[00:24:28] Jess: All right. You said you played basketball.
[00:24:30] What position did you play?
[00:24:32] Sarah: I was the center. Okay.
[00:24:34] Jess: How tall are you?
[00:24:36] Sarah: I'm shrinking. Apparently I'm only like five, nine and three quarters now, but I swear I used to be like five, 10 and a half at least.
[00:24:43] Jess: I'm not that tall. Wow.
[00:24:44] Sarah: Okay. But I'm strong.
[00:24:46] Jess: yeah. Okay, cool. if you had an extra hundred dollars to spend, what would you spend it on?
[00:24:53] Flowers. Fresh flowers. Love that. Or a plant. Flowers or plants. But probably flowery plants if [00:25:00] they were plants. Love it. And my last question is, what is your drink of choice? Alcoholic or non,
[00:25:09] Sarah: I am really into iced tea right now. Like of all varieties, also sometimes does mix just fine with alcohol.
[00:25:17] FYI, if you're a tea drinker, but okay, hot tip if you need to and you don't have time to brew the tea. Just put the teabag in the water and let it sit for an hour. And you're going to get at least a little something busy. Mom tips from me to y'all.
[00:25:36] Jess: Oh, I love it so much. Okay, cool. Thanks for playing.
[00:25:43] Okay, let's talk about business development. How are you finding these clients? How are they coming to you?
[00:25:49] Sarah: Okay, I'm looking at my pipeline for a cheat. I know you're surprised. I've had so many people try to get me into Notion or Asana. I'm like, I'm good, thanks. like the [00:26:00] majority of our clients in the last 12 months, have been people we have worked with through our, volunteer committees, people, or people who know those people.
[00:26:15] So we find a lot of value. I'm just going to name the self interest here that, when we serve, I serve on a, our local chapter of AFP has a Really cool fellowship called the idea fellows, and it's for BIPOC fundraisers who rarely have a space where it's all folks of color. And as you can imagine, I'm not in those spaces.
[00:26:40] I'm like an admin in the background, but I helped to create it with a few other really amazing people. And, now get to follow it from the background, but like people who have worked with us before, who know what it's like to partner with me or Laura in those volunteer capacities. or like I said, contacts of [00:27:00] those folks that has been a huge business development opportunity for us.
[00:27:04] yet we took a risk this year and took step down from that association board. And we wondered if, we'd still have the same leads and we do. there's a really decent word of mouth, happening, I guess, from past clients now. and people we've coached. Along the way. So yeah, it's majority people who have really seen our work and worked with us either now as consultants or prior, but I think the main if someone was like, where should I spend this extra hour of time I have a month, go serve on your local CCF chapter committee.
[00:27:46] do the actual work with people because that's how they get to know Oh, like Sarah says, she's going to do something. And then she does it. And when she does it, she makes us think a little bit differently or challenges us or embarrasses herself for the [00:28:00] good of the order or whatever. Like they know what it's like.
[00:28:04] And that's been really powerful for us for what's not in my answer is like an ultra strategic process. And that's probably something we need to work on too, but
[00:28:13] Jess: maybe in year four, like you said,
[00:28:15] Sarah: um,
[00:28:16]
[00:28:16] Jess: okay. I'm wondering how you all handle, manage, navigate, this kind of spelling of services around CC.
[00:28:24] CF. So my kind of experience with it is that it's still quote unquote new, like a lot of nonprofits probably have never heard that acronym. if they've heard community centric fundraising, they don't really know what the principles are, especially how to execute that into practice. And so are you all spending, like what percentage of time are you spending educating people versus.
[00:28:48] maybe just not focusing on people like that. Don't know what that is. maybe you just don't want those types of clients. how do you, I feel like there's people listening that probably have services [00:29:00] that are a little outside the box as far as the way you talk about it or whatever. And yeah, I'm just curious how you navigate that knowing that there might be a level of education that has to come before someone is actually ready to work with you.
[00:29:17] Sarah: Yeah, I have to two answers to that. the first thing is that we went through that ourselves as staff fundraisers. Like, how do you does one become a community centric fundraiser? do we need to convince our board? Do I need permission from my boss? Like, when do I know I am a community centric fundraiser?
[00:29:36] All those things were things we went through. Laura was my boss. And I was like, trying to get my team organized to do the principles. And she was like, I think we need to bring the board in and we just stumbled through it together. And so I feel like what we took from that was. The understanding that people need an access point to this thing, for me, the access point was that [00:30:00] blog.
[00:30:00] And then I got to talk about it with colleagues and think about it and work on it. And I had a supportive boss that let me just try stuff and she would try stuff too. one of our big wins is we had a bunch of board members on that very first CCF call and it was like, Oh, this is so great.
[00:30:15] Like they're into this and they really get it. But, just being able to find that access point for people has been really helpful. And when we really thought about it and the way we were able to quote unquote sell it with our organization then and with clients now, is by going to its root, which is values like, what are your values?
[00:30:34] Do they align with what you read in these principles? get clear on what they are. And then how do your actions compare, right? That's the organizing part of the way we think about this. It's like, what are you saying? And what are you doing? And what's the Delta between, and if there's a space between what you're saying, your values aren't related to fundraising or communications, or even just your strategic plan as an [00:31:00] organization.
[00:31:00] And what you're doing is,different. That's your access point. That's where we as consultants come in and say, let us help you bridge that gap. And then. Get you closer to doing and saying the same thing and to us. That's the way we're living out the CCF principles. there could be a client that has values that are so out of alignment with our own personal values, which we have on our site really clearly.
[00:31:25] So people can see where we stand, love, justice, abundance, and okay, this is embarrassing. I'll get back to it. I'm thinking about stuff right now. I guess that's the top. but yeah, those, that's really. I think values has been the on ramp to CCF. And then people are like, of course, I believe in these things.
[00:31:47] of course I do. And the answer to my question we were asking ourselves is no, you don't need board approval. No one tells you if you're a CCF fundraiser, your boss doesn't have to approve it. You can be a person who believes in these principles and [00:32:00] your values, align with those principles. And you can act in that way in the world and weave it in a way that.
[00:32:06] Weave it into your fundraising in a way that you can and take that, take those baby steps. And then the other thing we do is spend a bunch of time putting free resources out because we really want to be part of the movement. We feel like we're accomplices and we've benefited so much from learning about CCF principles.
[00:32:22] So on our website, StaggeredRetailer. com, we have a free resources section. I think there's six or seven free resources that are just all about That entry point into adding values and CCF principles into the work, and we do it from that same place we were at, if you're just thinking about this, what might you need to take that next step, make a 10 percent change.
[00:32:44] so that's a big part of our, a part of our work. We set a goal this year to hit 1000 people who are educated or become somewhat knowledgeable about CCF because of something we've shared with them. We're nowhere close to that yet. maybe y'all can, who [00:33:00] are listening can help us get to our goal of a thousand, but we really do want to help people understand what it is and what it isn't to us, at least.
[00:33:08] Cindy: That's awesome. All right. I feel like we are ready to dive into a confession. So Sarah, share with us something. I feel like you've already shared a lot with us, but like share with us something you haven't said elsewhere or yet on today's podcast about running a business, building a business, something you might, be reluctant to share in other spaces.
[00:33:35] Sarah: I think what I'll share,this might be a little too cryptic. You can tell me if I'm being, but I am being cryptic for, just privacy. But one of the things that I didn't expect, and it's on two ends of the spectrum, that I didn't expect becoming a consultant is how seen I would have to be.
[00:33:57] I have to market [00:34:00] myself and sell myself and sell things I make. and as a nonprofit fundraiser, it's never been about me. And so that's been really like a big. Change. And I think has made me a better coach for fundraisers because we like tell people, like you actually matter, like you as the fundraiser, if you're having a shitty bad day, you're not going to be a good representer of your most powerful mission.
[00:34:26] Like you got to take care of yourself, but putting myself out there has been a little vulnerable. And for the vast majority of the spectrum is way weighted to the side of Love, giving love back as I put myself out there, but I wasn't really ready for the,negative. there's been just a few instances of negative where it's like,you know, somebody questioning something or, either personally or publicly, or just like asking a question that feels maybe off or something.
[00:34:57] and I just, I've [00:35:00] never put myself out there like where I'm the product in a way that's bothered me before. It's always just been like, okay, whatever, move on. I sold encyclopedias door to door as like one of my first jobs. I'm cool with rejection.
[00:35:12] Cindy: Oh my God. I was trying to explain to my kids what encyclopedias were before.
[00:35:18] I love that you sold them. I also
[00:35:20] Sarah: sold CD ROMs. If you want to explain that one.
[00:35:24] Cindy: That's amazing. But can Okay, aside from the encyclopedias and like floppy disks and all the things, can we sit for a minute with this? Because I actually think it's really important. We talk a lot about, the brand is you and it's not you, and it's not about you, but you are putting yourself out there.
[00:35:46] You are being vulnerable, and actually I've talked to Maria, Ria, Rio about this before as well. So Maria gets. Two shout outs today. but when we put ourselves out with very clear and [00:36:00] strong values, especially, there are people who don't agree with us, and who say or do weird things. And sometimes they're small weird things and sometimes they're things that just don't feel good.
[00:36:17] Um,And I feel like that's an important acknowledgement.like we always, I always say like. Yes, you want to put your authentic self out there, but sometimes the space that we're in isn't always the safest space or, we don't know who's out there in the universe consuming our content. I don't necessarily want you to talk about your experience with that, but maybe some ways that you've dealt with that kind of, uh, experience because it's hard.
[00:36:50] I also feel like I'm famous to myself. no one knows this about me, but I find I'm really bad about dealing with those things in the moment. [00:37:00] Sometimes like I get caught off guard and Blunder my way through things. So yeah, let's just talk a little bit more about this because I think it's really important to put out in the open.
[00:37:14] Sarah: Yeah, I'm game. And I think, I wish someone would have told me that, Hey, like most of it's going to feel really good. Like people are going to be like, you are awesome. Like what you told me was really helpful. Thank you. And then every once in a while for me, it's,it's been, I You are not awesome.
[00:37:35] And boy, I just really that it's just painful. let's just call it what it is. That's painful. And I don't know if there's a way around it.we're not for everybody, right? That's what my therapist would tell me, I think.but yeah, I guess the process I've gone through when this is, and sometimes it's been people that are close to me, which [00:38:00] is like when it's ultra just heartbreaking, like I still have a big broken chunk of my heart, from when this has happened in the past.
[00:38:09] And I hope, someday that gets repaired. But like I said, one of my values is love and I really believe in it. And I believe in time.so those are some of the things that like get me through it, but also just like, I'm a person who needs to just be in the moment with it. So I called, when this has happened or when I felt like.
[00:38:29] Even just like I felt like a client was not happy with me that also just will send me into like pain, that feeling of pain, like almost physical pain. And I just call another consultant. This is why my partner, Lauren, I love your show so much because it feels like there's this community. I know.
[00:38:46] I can't necessarily just text y'all any old time, but I do have a good group of people who I can do that with. And with that little bit of an organizer vibe, I work hard to cultivate that. And then when I have those moments of like [00:39:00] pain because of something someone meant to do or didn't mean to do, there is.
[00:39:06] A place to verbally process or ask for what I need or be like, Hey, did I just mess this up? am I thinking about this completely wrong? what's my bias here? What's my blind spot? And as a white person with, Like I said, privileges,many privileges. I feel like I really need that.
[00:39:24] and I'm so glad like that I have it and I've leaned on that. So heavily in these last four years and before, like I was feeling pain sometimes as a staff fundraiser when I did something wrong too, unfortunately we can't get rid of all of those yucky feelings. But the majority are really positive and try to stay
[00:39:44] Cindy: focused on that,
[00:39:45] Sarah: but
[00:39:46] Cindy: yeah, and they are overwhelmingly positive, but there's we don't want to be like, we don't want to have that toxic positivity, which is let's pretend the other stuff doesn't exist.
[00:39:58] No, it totally is. [00:40:00] And I love that you also brought up like, to me, these different kinds, which is I've had people like, say things randomly online or I've had a webinar where I did a land acknowledgement at the beginning, which is very common in Canada and growing, growing, in the U. S., but someone, Emails me right at, as I was presenting it, what is this performative activism, blah, blah.
[00:40:28] I'm like, I have no idea who this person is. They signed up for this webinar. I was doing from like the universe, I don't know, somewhere online. I'm like, who are you? And they said some mean things, but then there's also the, if someone's unhappy with your work, which is a different kind of pain, I think, which has also happened and will happen to probably everyone, and that actually hurts.
[00:40:52] A lot more. that's like deep. It's a deep cut.
[00:40:57] Sarah: It's so real. And also, so don't you think sometimes [00:41:00] we like someone will just give me straight up feedback. Oh, could you like, do it instead of this way, when you do this next month or whatever. And I'll be like, like in the background, like never I'm clutching my pearls right now or grabbing my neck or something.
[00:41:16] Like it breaks me if I'm having a tough day or whatever. And it's just feedback, likeany of us who don't tell our clients or our prospective clients that like, we need your feedback so we can do it. We're faking it.and sometimes that feedback doesn't feel great. yeah. Okay. I'm not the interviewer here, but how do you bounce back?
[00:41:40] Cindy: Oh, sometimes it sticks with me for a very long time. yeah, I, and I do things to like, try fix it obviously or do better. but yeah, it's never, it never feels good. Now I'm like, I have this. Mild obsession with because I work on, in groups now, I have group programs, and [00:42:00] it, I know statistically that there are people who are not gonna do the work, and I don't understand why, and I'm like, I gotta get everyone doing the things, and so it's It feels a little bit like, a failure, a personal failure, if they're not getting the work done, which I know it's not my responsibility.
[00:42:24] so I try balance like, okay, well, maybe I can improve parts of the programs or, people have different learning styles or do different things. And at the end of the day,I try to shake it off, but I'm not going to lie. There are like a handful of incidents in my consulting career that I will still point to as moments that hurt, did not feel good.
[00:42:48] and I think it's actually okay that we hold on to those a little bit because they teach us something, but, and sometimes they just teach us that not everyone out there is for us. And that's a good [00:43:00] lesson too,and sometimes it teaches how to do better work or how to have better contracts or, you know, all the things.
[00:43:07] yeah, it's not easy, but I think it's an important, thing to just remember and talk about because, yeah, those are the things we often talk about. Gloss over
[00:43:17] Jess: and to your point, Sarah, I mean, I can't emphasize enough how important it is to have your people like the people that are on the quick and the ready, whether that's like over a slack message or a text or a phone call or whatever, because having people who get it is so vital to your sanity when you're an entrepreneur.
[00:43:38] And I think especially when you work with the types of clients that a lot of nonprofit consultants do who can be, Extra burnt out, overworked, underpaid, just like bringing so much pain, frankly, to this work, and looking for any excuse to use. people as punching bags sometimes. I think it's just so important to [00:44:00] find your people and,sure if that person is your spouse, like I've met people that like their spouse is their be all end all, but like for me, my spouse just doesn't get it because he's just in a totally different world professionally.
[00:44:14] He's just what is happening? so I think that's really important. And then I think also having the power of the pause. is really important. So for me, that looks a lot like getting up and away from my desk, outside, walking my dog, feeling the sun on my face, taking off my shoes, like putting my feet to grass.
[00:44:35] and then it's, Also being, and this is, I'm becoming more and more ruthless about this. saying no, like saying no to the zoom calls, saying no to phone calls in general. I now am like pretty hardcore about only letting people control my calendar on Wednesdays, and I know that doesn't serve a lot of other people, but it serves me because I just need the physical [00:45:00] space to think and to write and produce.
[00:45:02] And I think that when you're just going back to back to back, you yourself become tired. And I know for me, when I'm tired and run down, I'm a lot more sensitive to that type of like criticism and feedback versus when I'm well rested. I'm like, Oh, they're probably having a bad day. And I like, don't even think about it.
[00:45:24] So it's really easy to let other people control and have. yeah, to take control of how you work, or you can, take control of it yourself. And it's a thing that definitely I didn't start with on day one, I'm just getting to a place now where I'm a much more, Restrictive. so for anyone listening, that's new in their business and they're feeling like they need to say yes to everything.
[00:45:49] I totally get it. I would say most people start there, but the faster you can give less sparks, the better. I'm just telling you now.
[00:45:57] Sarah: I so agree. I started doing a to don't [00:46:00] list. and my, and we do that now with our fundraising clients, like what's on the to don't list. I love that so much, Jess. That's so good.
[00:46:07] Jess: Like put it in a parking lot like write it down keep it safe, but like You don't have to execute on every single thing take a pause And this is someone who's an activator and has a really hard time moving slow
[00:46:21] Sarah: Yeah Just the pause like really quickly. I just want to say For me, it also helps to just cry and get under the covers for a few hours in the middle of a day that I was supposed to do a bunch of work.
[00:46:32] Like I have to let the feelings happen, to be able to do the, I love the like sun on your face. Like that stuff is great too. And for me, I just got to let them out. okay, I'm going to lose four hours of today because I'm a human being who cares about people. And I'm just going to.
[00:46:47] Like maybe read a book and be under the covers for a while with my dog. And
[00:46:52] Jess: that's why you designed your business, right? that's why you work for yourself so that you can call, make those calls when you need to make those [00:47:00] calls. And That is why you've designed it like this. So yes, I'm glad you recognize that.
[00:47:05] Sometimes you need to do that. So that's great.
[00:47:09] Sarah: All right, Sarah.
[00:47:15] Jess: so much. for folks who are not yet connected with you or want to learn more about your services and the work that you do for your nonprofit clients. What's the best way for them to get in touch?
[00:47:26] Sarah: We're on LinkedIn at Steiger Vitelli and our website is steigervitelli. com.
[00:47:32] Jess: Perfect. We appreciate you.
[00:47:34] Thanks for being here. Yeah. Thank you.