The Micro Agency Model: Freedom, Flexibility, and Family with Eman Ismail
“I have a very flexible lifestyle. I have two kids. I regularly take time off for sickness, school holidays. All that type of stuff. I take between three and four months off a year and so it's not feasible that I would right now have employees, not interested in them, don't want it. I want an agency model that allows me to hire people when I need them and only when I need them rather than constantly.” Eman Ismail
The Micro Agency Model: Freedom, Flexibility, and Family with Eman Ismail
What does it take to build a micro-agency that scales without sacrificing flexibility? In this episode of Confessions, Cindy and Jess chat with conversion copywriter Eman Ismail, founder of Eman CopyCo, about her journey to creating a micro-agency. With experience working in the charity sector, Eman dives deep into her decision to transition from solo work to a micro-agency model that lets her balance big projects with a flexible lifestyle. They talk about the nuts and bolts of managing client work with a contractor team, fostering client trust, and scaling up with intention (no big, overwhelming teams here!). Eman also shares her launch journey—complete with website rebranding, new team introductions, and some bold shifts in positioning.
Tune in to hear how Eman navigates hiring, pricing, and marketing, and why it’s crucial to find the right experts who can deliver quality. If you’re curious about building your own agency or hiring top-tier support, Eman’s insights will resonate!
Key Takeaways:
5 Key Takeaways:
Micro-Agency = Flexibility: Eman highlights how her micro-agency model allows her to hire when needed, avoid full-time employee obligations, and keep a flexible work-life balance.
Client Trust in Contractors: Through careful branding and clear messaging, Eman builds trust with clients to work directly with her contractors, taking herself out of the day-to-day work loop.
Pricing for Quality Work: Eman stresses the value of paying for quality. Her team’s expertise comes with a cost, but it’s worth it for reliable results and strong client satisfaction.
Marketing with Intent: Post-launch, Eman found that her audience needed time to adjust. She’s now investing more than ever in intentional marketing to showcase her agency’s strengths.
Using Senja for Social Proof: Eman’s secret tool, Senja, helps her manage, organize, and promote testimonials across platforms—crucial for building credibility and converting new leads.
Timestamp summary:
[00:00:00] Cindy and Jess introduce Eman, a seasoned copywriter launching her micro-agency.
[00:02:28] Eman explains what a micro-agency is and why she chose this model.
[00:03:38] Discussing her contractor model and intentionally avoiding full-time employees.
[00:06:15] Challenges with her first hires and how she learned to onboard the right experts.
[00:09:04] Managing client relationships with contractors in the loop.
[00:12:06] How Eman shifted her branding to emphasize her agency team.
[00:17:46] Building trust with clients for contractor-led projects.
[00:23:29] Eman’s marketing focus post-launch and why she’s investing more time in it.
[00:26:32] Inside her website rebrand and positioning overhaul.
[00:30:56] Eman’s phased approach to rolling out her rebrand on social media.
[00:35:23] Uptick in strategy consults as a result of her agency launch.
[00:38:55] Eman breaks down her pricing and split for contractor-led services.
[00:42:53] Final thoughts on scaling and Eman’s favorite tool for social proof, Senja.
[00:48:23] Wrap-up and where to connect with Eman online.
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com
Connect with Eman:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eman-i307/?originalSubdomain=uk
Website: https://www.emancopyco.com/
Podcast: https://www.emancopyco.com/podcast
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching: cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network: fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jesscampbelloutintheboons/
Resources
Six-Figure Freelance Copywriter
Eman’s Evergreen Product Suite
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Hello, Cindy. Hey, Jess. I'm excited about this chit chat. I, I'm so excited because let's do it. I mean, this is someone I listened to her podcast. All the time. So you've worked with her, you've hired her. She's been a part of this. All right. So for, to, to keep the suspense to a minimum, let's get straight to it.
[00:00:25] Welcome back to confessions. The one, the only Eman Ismail from Eman CopyCo, the talented beyond talented conversion copywriter. We're going to talk about your new micro agency today. Yay. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me so excited to be back. And can I just say the first interview that we did is still one of my favorites, like top three podcast interviews I've done.
[00:00:50] Oh, that's so nice. Okay, well, we have to, we have to keep the good times rolling. for those who maybe haven't listened, and we will try to link that podcast episode in the show notes. So you can go back in here from Eman from the beginning. Tell the fine folks. What it is you do and how you get paid.
[00:01:11] Great. I am an email strategist. and the founder of Eman and copy co, we are a small micro agency. I have a small team of email experts who, basically we help you take your email list from has potential to highly profitable. We work with all kinds of different businesses. From personal brands to, big nonprofits.
[00:01:36] Actually, we've worked with a lot of nonprofits. My background is actually in the charity sector. We work with coaches and course creators and membership makers and, and bigger kind of companies worked with SAS companies even. So yeah, our expertise is email strategy and copywriting, and we. We basically, we help companies that use email and do email, which should really be all companies, all businesses.
[00:02:03] I know Cindy and I, we, we agree and mostly agree, mostly agree, on that, but I'm, I'm on your, your side. I agree with you, but we are email copywriters, so that makes sense. I feel like we could spend a bunch of time talking about email and growing a list and all these things, but for that, go back to the episode.
[00:02:28] We had with them on before and what I would love to talk about today is just your thought process and decision around starting a micro agency. And I would love even a little bit of your definition around what micro agency even means. Let's maybe start there. Yes. Okay. So I'm going to steal this definition from Maggie Patterson, who is a fellow business owner, a fellow micro agency owner, actually.
[00:02:57] and she says a micro agency, and this is a direct quote from her website, by the way, um, so Maggie Patterson from BS Free Business says a micro agency is essentially a service business operating as an agency with a small team of employees and or contractors. the exact number isn't what matters, but rather that you're choosing to grow and run your business with a team.
[00:03:19] Now, interestingly, I came across a thread, like someone posted on a thread yesterday. No, today it was, and I think they were being a little bit, they wanted to maybe start a fiery discussion. and it said something like, the post was something like, you don't have a team. You have a bunch of contractors.
[00:03:38] And so, that. made me stop and scroll because I work with a bunch of subcontractors and it's very intentional. I've worked with the same group of people now for a couple of years. I would definitely say that, we're a team, but I'm still, because it's so new, I'm still trying to, I guess, create like the team spirit between them.
[00:04:06] I know them all. very well and I've worked with them for a long time. So it's, you know, just to clarify my agency launched. I want to say a month and a half ago, less than two months ago. So we're still in the very beginning stages. but as for working with these people, I've worked with them for years.
[00:04:21] And that's, it's a very intentional that nobody on my team is an employee. I don't want to be an employer. the very idea of having someone relying on me for that, like officially relying on me for to pay their rent or whatever else, or it's. That's something I don't want to live with, quite frankly, right now.
[00:04:41] Maybe that'll change in the future. But also the other thing is, I have a very flexible lifestyle. I have two kids. I regularly take time off for sickness, school holidays. All that type of stuff. I take between three and four months off a year, quite frankly. And so it's not feasible that I would right now have employees, not interested in them, don't want it.
[00:05:09] I want an agency model that allows me to hire people when I need them and only when I need them rather than constantly. The only people I'm working with constantly are my, is my assistant. And then also probably my, my podcast. my podcast producer.so those are the two people I'm working with every month that I basically have kind of retainers with.
[00:05:33] so like I read this thread and I thought it was like, you're not a team, you're a bunch, uh, you're a bunch of contractors. And I was like, yeah, we're a bunch of contractors. And that's exactly how I want it. I want that flexibility. I want, also to be able to have people that I can rely on. To send work to and to bring on to projects.
[00:05:56] and we work very closely on projects and, you know, I pay them well. I make sure they're happy with what they're being paid. And so these are real experts who are good at their job. This is not me just like harming off work. This is me bringing in experts to enhance projects and to make them better for my clients.
[00:06:15] So yeah, it's. It's been an interesting ride because my first experience of hiring contractors was awful and I completely gave up on it and I was like, Oh, I will never, ever do this again. But then I realized that there was a lot more to it. maybe I hadn't, there was some, some of it was on me. Maybe I hadn't briefed these contractors well enough for them to do a good enough job.
[00:06:41] maybe like, maybe I assumed that they had knowledge that they didn't have. Uh, maybe I didn't pick the right contractors. a lot of the time. In some, in some cases, the contractor wasn't experienced enough. and that's when I started to really understand that, you know, like with me, really, people who are really good at what they do are going to cost.
[00:07:04] you little bit more, but it's so much worth it to have people who are really great at their job doing, doing the thing that you love. So that's the definition of a microagency. That's kind of, that's why I have one. and I guess I wanted to start it because I want, I, I want to continue that flexible lifestyle and having All the people who can help me with projects means that I can actually, I can take on more projects and more clients.
[00:07:33] Number one, uh, number two, I canlive the more flexible lifestyle that I want. once I have all my systems up and running in terms of project management, that kind of thing. And then also I think, and I'm, I'm starting to see this. So I'm still early stages, but my theory is, and it's kind of improving a little bit so far, but my theory is that I'll be able to work with a new category of Companies as well, when they come on my website and see that it's not just me, because I think there's a real concern and a valid, it's a valid concern of some companies that they don't want to just put, they don't just want to work with one person because that's a lot of risk for them.
[00:08:18] It's scary. like frankly, I could drop dead tomorrow and. They're like, well, what about us? We're like, sorry, your dad, but what about us? What about, what about our money, you know? So those are some of the reasons I decided to go down this route. Okay, I'm making so many notes of questions I have for you.
[00:08:37] I want to start because I think a lot of people When they build their teams early on, they think of the internal operations. So you mentioned like your podcast person, your assistant. I think a lot of people, when they look at I'm building my business, they understand those things. Functions, you're building an agency is having more people who are client facing, who are actually delivering on the client work.
[00:09:04] And I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how you manage client relationships with that understanding. What's your role, what's their role, how does it all come together? Okay. So traditionally what I had always done was, I had always done the client facing aspect where the client would speak to me on the sales call.
[00:09:26] The client would speak to me on the briefing call. and then I would, and my client would know as well. I bring someone onto the project. They know who's working on it. And then. I would work with the, well, the person would work on it, like my team member would work on the project, and then I would come in and do basically quality control, and do what we call copy chief in, in the copywriting world where I, it's quality assurance, basically just making sure that I'm super happy with it because of course, interestingly, one of the only ways that I was comfortable doing this initially was so that making sure that my eye goes out on everything that is.
[00:10:07] Is being pushed out to clients and making sure that I approve everything.and it's funny because I remember once, I remember once there was one word, it was a word that one of my team members had written. And I remember reading it and thinking, I don't, I don't think the client's going to that word.
[00:10:24] But I was like, it's fine. It's fine. Maybe I'm just like, it's fine. Carried on. And then. The client picked up on that word, that one word. They were like, can we change that word? So I was like, I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. So sometimes it's helpful for the two brains to be on something. So that's really beneficial.
[00:10:43] And then I would deliver it. now the aim is to really take. Me out of, out of that.and not in all cases, cause I still do want to work with clients and I still do want to work on, on projects. But my, the ideal scenario is that I'm completely taken out. So to have my team member do the briefing call to do be communicating with the client, to be delivering the work, to be doing the edits and the revisions, the entire process basically.
[00:11:17] I still do sales calls right now, but the goal is that I am not always doing sales calls. ideally I would want to bring someone in, someone else in to do sales calls as well.I don't see that happening for a while because my main focus is right now to just nail down our processes from like client onboarding to client delivery.
[00:11:40] I'll focus on the sales call stuff. Later on, but I think that me not being the face of the sales call will be helpful down the line, in helping people kind of, manage their expectation that it's not necessarily going to be Eman working on my project. And I, we recently had a huge rebrand, of the website and that was the main change in messaging.
[00:12:06] It was to make it super clear that while the company is led by me and really like people are coming to the company, like now people still come to the agency because of me, because they trust, me and what I put out. But the idea is to also help them now trust the people that I have hired as well. So you trust me and trust me to bring on the right people for this project.
[00:12:35] and so that was a big, big part of the website. and also just moving forward in, in our positioning, like how, we talk about the company, it's all now, it's, you know, instead of work with me, work with us, work with our team. Actually, I remember, right before I okayed the website, the first, the very first call to action on the website, it was actually something else.
[00:13:00] But I, I changed it last minute because I wanted people to know immediately from the hero section of the website, the very first thing they saw that we're a team. So the call to action changed from whatever it was, which was a really, I actually really liked that call to action. it, we changed it to you in question mark work with our team so that people knew from the get go that we're a team and it might not necessarily be.
[00:13:27] Me that you're working with. So I have a lot still to nail down in terms of systems and processes. I feel like, well, the approach I'm taking is my processes and systems. If I do say so myself, I've always been quite good. So I'm okay with using what we have right now and gradually create in the systems and processes that we need as things crop up, because sometimes.
[00:13:58] You just need to, you just need to experience the thing to learn and to know what you, what you need to learn what you thought you knew but didn't know. because sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. So yeah, that's what that looks like. Interesting. Now, You mentioned like you want your clients to trust the members of your agency, but you also mentioned earlier, like your experience and having some not great, uh, contractors in the past.
[00:14:29] I feel like it's harder for us as business owners to trust people and let go of some of the work as opposed to like our clients. And so I'd love to hear a little bit about like, what you've learned along the way, it sounds like you kind of were working with these subcontractors before and now you've created a more formal process, but if you didn't have a relationship with them already or going forward, how do you want to find people that you trust well enough, or how do you onboard them in a way that like makes you feel confident in their work?
[00:15:04] Okay, so the first thing is, quite a few of the people that I work with, I hired them to do projects for me. So I hired them as someone who was like, I became their client basically. And so I got to experience firsthand their service, what they're, you know, what they're great at. Actually quite a few of them now that I think about I hired first.
[00:15:29] So that was really good. That was the first step in me being able to really trust that someone was, that they were great at what they do actually experiencing it firsthand. I agree that it's very difficult to hand this kind of stuff over. So I don't imagine that I would ever let someone like trial a client project.
[00:15:49] It would always be one of my things. And so that's the first thing. The second thing that I've learned in terms of figuring out, in terms of trusting people with, with this is, well, I've usually known them for a while. And I've usually known them from, I guess I've known them like another way. I've known them.
[00:16:13] We followed each other. We've been talking for a while. I like them. I trust their expertise. so it's not like someone just popped up one day and kind of came out of nowhere, that kind of thing. So it was a, maybe a long time come in for a lot of people. there's one person, for example, my, the person who does my, like email tech setups and implementation, like puts emails into, into email service providers.
[00:16:43] I hired him for me quite a few times and then I recommended him to clients a lot actually and I got such great feedback from clients saying that he was fantastic, they really enjoyed working with him, he was, you know, great and so that was a really great sign for me that I want to bring him onto the team so that he can, he can, you know, Just work more closely with me and work with more of my clients.
[00:17:09] and so that I can offer that implementation stage to clients as well. So, yeah. but I think mostly what I've learned is you got to pay for the experts, you got to pay for the expert. That's it. That's, that's, I think the crux of it, but yes, Cindy, you're right. That I was working with these people, with everyone.
[00:17:33] I was working with everyone for a couple of years before I started the agency. and it was only when I felt really, really good about this group of people that I was working with that it was, it was literally a case of, okay, let's just make this more official.
[00:17:46]
[00:17:51] We're back for another round of rapid fire questions. You ready to play? I'm ready. Let's do it. Okay, my husband is obsessed that Oasis is coming back for concerts. I might actually have to bite the bullet and, uh, go to the UK. So my question to you is, what is your dream concert to go see live? Oh my gosh.
[00:18:17] My dream concert. Oh, that's such a good question. Okay, I'm gonna say Destiny's Child. Oh, it would be next level. Next level. Okay, my next question is, in my experience, strong writers are strong readers, and so I'm currently curious what's on your Reading list, Kindle, bedside table. Actually, I don't know if this is terrible, but I'm currently reading a book that I'm in.
[00:18:47] Ooh, that's so cool. Well, I was so excited that I was in the book that I never actually got around to reading the rest of the book. So I was like, let me actually read what everyone else is saying as well. So, it's called the Six Figure Freelance Copywriter. 21 high earning freelancers share their strategies to make 100K a year.
[00:19:06] And it's a, it's a book published by Joanna Wee, but copyhackers and my chapter, there I am. I'm going to show you. I'm right at the back. and so I was like, well, let me hear what the other 20, 20 copywriters have to say as well. So I'm currently reading that. Oh, so good. Okay. And my last question is, you mentioned that you've designed your business to really live the life that you want to live,
[00:19:34] live and the freedom that comes along with that. And I know a big component of your life is being a mom to two boys. I'm pretty sure. And so as a working mom, I'm curious, just what's one mom hack you have? Okay. This might sound really silly, but, like really simple, but it's, to be present in whatever it is that you're doing.
[00:20:02] I think, I think the struggle for working parents is that sometimes you can feel like you're never doing either thing like 100 percent well, because when you're at work, you're thinking about kids or when you're with the kids, you're thinking about work. And so now I've just, I try really hard so that when I'm with the kids, I'm really with them.
[00:20:26] I'm enjoying that time with them. And then when I'm at work, I'm really at work. So, for example, we just had, a school holiday last week and I, I didn't do any work. I bet I barely did anything. I had no calls. I had no deadlines. I had no delivery. I mean, nothing stressful. And, I just spent the week just really having fun with them.
[00:20:49] The only priority every single day was, what are we going to do? What are we going to do to have fun today? Where should we go? And we had the best holiday. And there were times when like my, my three year old at one point just looked at me when we were out one day. He just looked at me and said, I feel so happy.
[00:21:10] And my eight year old was like, this is the best holiday. This is so great. And you know, I actually challenged myself to only do free activities because I didn't want this to be a holiday where, you know, I just blew through loads of money. It's let's see what we can do for free and just have loads of fun.
[00:21:27] And. So, you know, they had the, we all had the best holiday and it didn't even take us spending like loads of money. And so my thing now is whenever the kids are on school holiday, I just focus on them. I, at the beginning of the year, beginning of the school year, I put all the holidays into my calendar. I block them all out for the whole entire academic year and I'm not available.
[00:21:50] I'm just not available, which is why I end up taking so much holiday. I also take all of July off as well. So that's, I think that's the advice I'd give. Ah, thanks for playing.
[00:22:05] So good. And we've been talking about this a lot today on the power of hiring the experts and, and the worth in that of, of kind of paying the fast pass to not have to do all the teaching and overseeing and all that stuff.
[00:22:18] So, uh, right there with you.okay. So I'm a, I'm assuming and I shouldn't I don't like using that word that your motivation for building this micro agency is is this is your version of scaling right scaling up and I know it's only been a month or two, but I'm curious how your time split has shifted.
[00:22:40] So, for example. You know, pre agency, you know, 90 percent of the time you're doing direct service and 10 percent business development. has that shifted? what is your day to day look like now that you have these. team members who are essentially writing on behalf of the company and it's not solely on you.
[00:23:06] So basically, in terms of dividing the work and delegating the work, if it's a project that I really want to work on, I'll, I'll work on it and put that in my calendar so I can work on it. Otherwise, it's a case of availability if there are clients who, uh, need work faster than others, if they have a specific deadline in mind.
[00:23:29] And I know that, okay, I'm going to need to get, I'm going to need to get help on this or bring them in on that. but what's interesting is I've found that I have been doing instead of the systems and like business operations, I've been doing more marketing than ever. And I think that I have marketing is net has never been something that I've neglected ever.
[00:23:50] I would say very confidently that I market every single day. I didn't really think that I. Could spend more time on it. And I really have. So my biggest focus over the past couple of months has really been marketing. And I almost feel like people need time to get used to this like new format. And so they need educating around that, like why I've done it.
[00:24:18] I created like a whole content calendar around even just the launch, really like easing people into it. And giving them a look into the kind of behind the scenes so they understand what's happening, why it's working. They can go on the about page of my website and see who exactly, who exactly makes up the team, all that kind of stuff.
[00:24:38] So yeah, it's actually been more marketing than ever. Okay, I'd love to dive into a launch the launch. Cindy and I love a good launch debrief and you are such a talented marketer. So you did do it with like such. It was so good. can you walk us through the what I would call like the warmup phase or the prelaunch phase.
[00:25:04] And then what did you do to launch this out into the world? You mentioned a new website. I also have been seeing you pretty active on threads, which is actually a platform. I'm guessing a lot of our folks don't necessarily play on a ton, not necessarily as producers of content, maybe of consumers of content.
[00:25:22] So, yeah, I would just love to know, like. How far out did you start teasing this idea to folks? What kind of content were you putting out to shift the messaging from, you know, me and eyes to us and wheeze? Did you introduce your team members? Was the launch like several emails in a short period of time? Or just tell us about your life.
[00:25:46] Yes. And the results. So. Yes. Okay. So in terms of, in terms of how I did the launch, it was always going to be between an email series or like an in depth podcast episode. I have a podcast and so I couldn't figure out which one to do. because the emails obviously would take more time and the podcast would really be me just like talking things through.
[00:26:15] Uh, and then. Well, let me say that this whole process started in February, 2024. So, I think it was in February, maybe early March that I booked, for example, the new, my new brand photographer, oh my gosh, there was so many different parts to this. That is all coming back to me. I'm just like, Oh my God, there was so much.
[00:26:40] So just to, I guess, paint a picture of the different like parts to this, I hired the brand photographer to, to do, to do a photo shoot. Actually, we ended up doing two photo shoots in two different locations. That was really to, well, I hadn't had any brand photos done for, years, I want to say four years and then also my brand had changed as in like my visual brand had changed.
[00:27:07] I didn't have anything that felt like it represented me. I also wanted photos that I felt took my perceived value, even to the next level. I wanted people to see my photos and see that I'm serious. I'm also not cheap, but that means you'll get good work.so, and then the other part of that was, well, then I, well, I booked the brand photographer and then I was like, Oh, one of the things I hate most in the world is like figuring out what to wear.
[00:27:41] I hate everything fashion related. And so I booked this photographer and then I realized and spent a lot of money on the photographer and then I realized, Oh my gosh, I don't know what I'm going to wear, like what am I going to wear? So then I hired a personal stylist, a virtual personal stylist to help me figure out what to wear for the brand photos.
[00:27:59] And that was amazing. And that was all, all based on my brand colors and like my visual brand. And so it really felt like things were starting to really come together. When I hired the photographer and the, and the stylist, there was a moment where I was like, ah, how do I solidify, my brand?
[00:28:18] How do I, tell them everything that I want to tell them about the brand so that we can, nail this? At the same time, at that time, one of my team members who, who isn't on my team anymore, but was, they were having trouble, figuring it out. My tone of voice or the, the, the brand's tone of voice.
[00:28:36] And that wasn't their fault. That was because I had no guidelines. Like how could they figure it out? How could they know if I didn't have any guidelines for them? So I thought, okay, now I need to create like brand guidelines. Uh, so I hired a messaging strategist to do that. And when I say she nailed it, I read this document and get excited.
[00:28:56] And so it's something that I, it's a document that I can give to people that I hire to do like designers and photographers or whatever else, but it's also, it's primarily for team members that I'm on board in so they can get a good overall picture. And it really means that I'm not sat in a meeting every time I hire someone trying to explain to them, Oh, this is how we feel.
[00:29:15] This is what we do. This is what we don't do. This is what we say. This is what we don't say. This document shares everything. So I sent that document to the photographer. And to the stylist, they nailed both parts of that. And then the final part was hiring the website agency. I've never invested so much in, really, this was probably actually the biggest investment I'd made in my business ever, like all of this for the, for the rebrand.
[00:29:42] I hired a website agency that included a copywriter and the designer and developer, who set it all up. And so this, all of this kind of took us into the end of August and it was at the end of August that I, that we launched. And so by that point I was exhausted, I was so tired and I decided instead of doing the email series, Which I think my subscribers would have loved, but I was just too tired.
[00:30:12] So I thought I'm going to do the in depth podcast episode. So I did an in depth podcast episode in terms of the warmup. everybody knew there was something coming. I'd already shared the brand photos so people could see that something was coming and also they could see that the vibe was changing that we were like upgrading, And so then by the time I launched, uh, everyone knew something was coming.
[00:30:32] Then came the announcement, on my email list, my social media, my podcast, and social media would have been at the time, Instagram and LinkedIn, uh, and also threads as well. And that was my, arc coming out into the world. And so, yeah, it was, It was fantastic. There was a lot of buzz. There was a lot of talk and that's what I really wanted.
[00:30:56] I wanted that buzz. I wanted that excitement. I wanted people to be talking about it. and I wanted people to go on the website and feel like this was a massive upgrade, uh, which I think we did that. So that's great. and yeah, so that was, that was the whole process. Amazing. Okay. So many questions, but the biggest one I think everyone's probably asking is okay, this is going to sound, it's so what, but not so what, but what happened?
[00:31:28] You've launched. have you, How we've been booking clients differently. what's changed? I can't imagine it's like an overnight flip of the switch in terms of difference, but maybe there is. So tell us what's different now. You know, that's so interesting because I think I was expecting like an, uh, uh, an overnight switch.
[00:31:48] Yeah, but my expectations were wrong.
[00:31:53] We put so much time into things we forget, even if you're out there everywhere and people are paying attention, they're not like paying attention enough that it's going to absolutely change your behavior in the next, like in, in one day. So tell us what it's, what the rollout post launch has been like.
[00:32:10] Yes. Okay. Okay. So the first thing I did was, I did. Like a, a launch, like celebration sale for existing clients. Um, so I made sure to communicate to my existing clients and past clients who I really enjoyed working with and want to work with again. I made sure to communicate with them first before anyone else, like what was going on, what was changing, what was happening.
[00:32:32] and then also invited them to book a, a really special kind of, Discount and what's great is that my existing clients know that I don't discount ever so So they knew that it was a really like a one off thing and it was a special thing And so I got inquiries from that got interest jumped up from thatbookings from that actually i'm still talking to one client now who from then who like wanted to book in and is planning to.
[00:33:02] so that was the first thing and I'm happy that I tapped in to my existing clients and didn't forget about those because of course, they're the people who are going to hire you before anyone else. and then the next thing was, well, actually inquiries are quite slow initially. And then I realized, I thought, Oh, maybe.
[00:33:25] It's a transition period. It's a transition period where people need to like, get used to this new thing. and I'd also introduce some new services, like the strategy consult that we did, Cindy. And also thanks to your brilliant testimonial, Cindy.it's been really great getting my, uh, like it's a minimum service.
[00:33:48] It's like my, my introductory service. It's been really great getting loads of bookings for that because I think I tried that in the past and it never really it never really took off, but now it has, which is great. I had an inquiry for my big service that is really an experiment. So on my website, I have a service called Email Makeover, 12 month partnership.
[00:34:16] it's me. it's, it's basically what's the word I'm looking for? Like transform, like turning your entire product suite into evergreen, evergreen in your entire product suite is what I'm trying to say. So that is five. K a month as in USD, which is 60 K a year. And so I was like, you know what? I'm just, I'm going to experiment.
[00:34:40] I'm going to see what happens. I'm going to do the page. I'm going to leave it up, see what happens. got an inquiry for that, which was really cool. And I've had companies that I don't think would have reached out to me. I don't think they would have reached out to me a few months ago at different types of companies, not necessarily small, like personal brands, small businesses, but big companies.
[00:35:02] So that's been really fun as well. so yeah, it's, it's just been, it's been, it's been very interesting because I thought that it was going to be like that flip of a switch. And I realized, Oh no, I have some nurturing to do. And so that's why I've been doing more marketing than I ever have, ever have before.
[00:35:23] And also it's a different kind of marketing. I feel like whereas before it was just like, it was very much like nurturing, very, it was very storytelling kind of content. It was very like, get to know me, like me. Here are some testimonials as well in there. So you know that I'm actually good at what I do.
[00:35:46] now it's, it's. I'm having to think about it a lot more. I'm having to be so much more intentional and also I'm having to be more intentional about, selling and putting the offers out there. Whereas I, I don't, I feel like I didn't have to do that as much before. so it's been a very interesting change.
[00:36:04] Oh, so, so good. Yeah. I think things don't change overnight. Even though for I mean even it's taken you six months plus to make the transition. It takes time for people to catch up with you as well okay. Jess and I are both asking like we're like typing to each other What do you want to ask us because we both have the same question which is how do you price?
[00:36:29] Like your services, because you're, you have packages, right? And so how do you look at the pricing in terms of what goes to your subcontractor, your team members, how do you manage things like your overhead, your time, especially if you're not doing the client work, you still need to pay yourself. what's been your process, uh, and like, how have you figured that out?
[00:36:54] So my prices will increase at some point, at some point, but I didn't increase them with the launch for two reasons. I think the first reason is because I didn't want to complicate things by also introducing a price hike.and then the other part of that was that I'm actually really happy with our existing rates because I'd been working with contractors for so long.
[00:37:17] My rates already considered their potential, fee as well. So my rates were already where they needed to be in order for me to hire people and bring them onto projects. So there are different ways of doing that. I know I've heard a lot of people talk about a percentage split, so you will just say, okay, this is the fee you're going to get.
[00:37:41] And I've heard splits like 50 50. but what I prefer to do is instead of me dictating a percentage, I know the rates of everybody I work with and I pay them what the actual rate is. So they know that they're not coming to me and, and they're going to get paid less, for example. I pay them
[00:38:10] but what their fee is, basically, and what their fee is for me isn't what their fee is for their clients, for example. especially with, because with their clients, they're doing all the work. We're sharing part of the work here. And also there's the, there's the aspect of, you know, They didn't have to do any marketing to get that client.
[00:38:33] the client was kind of handed to them on a plate. So there's that as well. So that the fee for me is slightly lower than it would be for a client who was coming directly to them. Super helpful. And so just for clarification, you are the person in the business that is doing the business development for all of the projects?
[00:38:55] Yes. Okay, cool. Wait, what do you mean? Wait, when you say business development for all the projects, let me just clarify, what do you mean? So like the, the people that you have on your team, they're not necessarily bringing a project to the business. You're doing that. Yes, I'm doing all the business development.
[00:39:13] Yeah. Okay, cool. And so I was just looking on your website and I see that you have For writing packages. Is that correct? I see. Yeah, we have full services. Okay. So I'm so curious. and I know it's only been a couple months, so this might be preliminary, but, what, have you noticed the split as far as what people are gravitating to and purchasing?
[00:39:34] Have you seen an upswing in the strategy calls, for example, or are mostly people doing custom emails or, and, and then, cause that trickles down right into the work that you provide for the Contractors. So I'm just curious, you know, what's the, what's it look like post launch? Yes. So it's definitely a custom emails are the most popular is the most popular service.
[00:39:58] Uh, people generally hire me for more than one project at a time. So they'll come to us and say, it, well, it's not just one thing. Like it's multiple things that we want to work on. ordinarily they hire me to just do all of them at once. They want it all done at once. I have had some clients who say, well, let's start off with one, which is sensible.
[00:40:21] Let's start off with one, see how that goes. And then generally, uh, like I think last year, a hundred percent, a hundred percent of clients were, were repeat clients. So, or hired me for more than one project. So. That's the aim. And that's what we can always assume that they'll hire us more than once. So usually clients will come with, uh, what they need, or I recommend to them what they need, and then I'll create like a custom package for them, custom pricing, that kind of stuff.
[00:40:47] Uh, what's been really surprising is the uptick in, in strategy calls. And it's, it's a 550 service for a one hour strategy consult. So the, uh, before our consult, the client fills out a briefing questionnaire, and then we get on the console. Actually, this is the one service that the, the service page specifically says that you're going to get me.
[00:41:13] and I really, I enjoy doing these. And I also, I think I want to do them because it's helpful for me to keep just like my finger on, on the pulse of, the client. Of what's going on with the people who may not necessarily, because these are people who don't want to hire me to do their emails. They don't want to, they don't want to hire us to do their emails.
[00:41:30] either they do that emails themselves and they're happy doing that emails themselves. Or they don't have the budget to hire us to do their emails for them. So these are people who would potentially buy like email courses from us and, and like digital products. So I want to know what's going on with them.
[00:41:50] I want to know what they're struggling with, what they're working on, all that kind of stuff. It's all. It's all research for me. And so I was really interested to see that there was an optic in this service because it was a new service and that's going, that's going really well. And that's exciting because I do a lot of masterclasses, a lot of workshops, a lot of Basically marketing stuff that isn't necessarily for people, uh, like who, who would be able to, or who wants to go for the night, like custom email packages or, you know, 5k services.
[00:42:26] These are people who want to spend under a thousand, you know, under 600. so yeah, that's been, that was interesting, unexpected, but it's been really fun. And like for now, I actually think those people will turn into your bigger clients in a year from now. Yeah. That's the hope as well, yeah. And just to you didn't explicitly say this, but you're basically getting paid to do market research, which is also really good.
[00:42:53] I'm very aware of the time because we're running out of time, so we have to ask our favorite question, which is, Eman, what's your confession? Ooh, wait, can it be about anything? Yeah.
[00:43:07] Okay. Okay. Okay. So I, since I launched the website, I have been getting a lot of people, funnily enough, I really didn't expect this. I got a lot of people come up to me and say, oh my gosh, you're social proof, the testimonials on your website. And quite a few people said, you've made me think about how I need to get better basically at my social proof.
[00:43:31] And I guess my confession there is that I use a really great tool called Senja and it's, it's a tool that basically allows you to, organize and manage. collect and promote your testimonials. So let me give you an example. After I get off this podcast, I'm going to send you a link that asks you to, to give me a testimonial or, or a review for me being on this, on this podcast, right?
[00:44:02] So you will, you'll get the link, you'll click on it, and it's a little, it's a tiny little form. You can choose to respond by video and record a video, or you can choose to just write the text. Then as you like submit, it will ask for your name, your you know, your role, your website, that kind of thing, and then you submit it.
[00:44:21] And then it comes through on my sender. it creates a profile for you. Cindy, I already have a testimonial from you. So the testimony will go under your profile. and then I can, well, I can add tags to it. So I can say, I can tag it as, okay, this is a speaker. Uh, this is a speaker testimonial. And then I can actually, I can add, I can add it to the speaker page of my website.
[00:44:47] Through the app as it like through the web app. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. So then it appears on the speaker page of my website, like automatically, once I've approved it, inside Senja and then I can create images. I can literally do one click and I click one click and it creates an image of the testimonial and then I can obviously download the image, share it wherever, blah, blah, blah.
[00:45:10] But I just saw the best thing, uh, LinkedIn now has some kind of like native integration with Senja so I can, I'm in LinkedIn and I'm like, Oh, I fancy tests, you know, sharing testimonials today. I can click on the little icon, uh, that comes up for me because it knows that I have Senja uh, and then choose Cindy's testimonial and share Cindy's testimonial.
[00:45:30] And actually, because I use Kit, which I'm a really big fan of, formerly ConvertKit, they also, they have an app with Kit. So I can, when I'm sending an email or I have launches or whatever else, I can just press the little icon in Kit. And then it brings up all my testimonials. I can search them by tag or by name, or by like even content, like searching keywords and then just click it, boom.
[00:45:56] And it comes up in my email, ready to go. How do we spell Senja? Sendinja or what is it? Sendinja. S E N J A. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I need to give you my affiliate link. Give us your affiliate link. I'm gonna give you my affiliate link. We started our conversation today talking about how Cindy is in her tech era.
[00:46:19] And so you were just feeding this so much, but I've actually seen a couple other creators, give rave reviews. So that's, that's, that's good. Okay. I didn't want to spend money on it. I really didn't. I really, really didn't. I thought, let me just try the free trial. It blew my mind. I used to previously have all my testimonials organized in A, a Google spreadsheet, uh, by product or service, the product or service that was being reviewed in the testimonial.
[00:46:49] This tool is mind blowing because you can organize the testimonials however you want, in however many ways you want. By tag, by name, by what the person is. Talking about or by service or whatever, it's mind blowing. Okay, you're also going to have to email it to me because the link didn't work in the chat.
[00:47:08] And we want to include it for all of our listeners. oh, Eman, it's always a pleasure. I always love chatting with you. where, remind our listeners where they can connect with you online. Oh, thank you so much for having me. You can find me at Emancopyco com if you're interested in working with us or hiring us again, like my background, which I didn't really talk about, but my background is in, is in the charity sector.
[00:47:35] I came from the charity sector before I started my, my business and we'd love to work with you. And then also if you love podcasts, which I'm pretty sure you do, if you listen to this, go check out. My podcast mistakes that made me, it's a business podcast and it's where I ask extraordinary business owners to share their biggest business mistake.
[00:47:55] So you know what not to do on your road to success. And Cindy is actually a guest. And so her episode is going to be out soon. So go find me over there. I'm also on Instagram and LinkedIn. Eman Carpico. So I'd love to, love to hear from you. Thank you so much. So good. Congratulations too on your email. Thank you, thank you, and thank you again for just a brilliant interview.
[00:48:20] It's always so great chatting to you. So good.